Bring back balata balls

[BIG STU]

Guy's can we at least try and spell Spalding correctly.

 

J

A lot of that is automatic spell check. If you spell Spalding the proper way like we do in golf circles it will auto correct to Spaulding. That is one of the many reasons I have my auto spell check cut off on my computer and phone

[HoganApexBlades]

Guy's can we at least try and spell Spalding correctly.

 

J

 

??? "Spalding, you'll get nothing and like it!"...???

[BIG STU]

Greg Norman played a Spaulding Tour Edition ball that had a synthetic balata cover and spun more than a wound balata ball. If balls were made to spin more, driver designs would be altered to minimize the additional spin, and probably nothing much would change as far as distance is concerned. Norman was as long as his contemporaries, playing a higher spin ball.

 

That ball was incredible. Probably spun too much and could have cost him a major back in 1986 when he led all 4 majors on Sunday. I'll never forget the shots he was hitting into greens at Inverness in the PGA. Right before Tway holed out from the bunker on the 72nd hole, Norman hit a shot into the middle of the green that sucked back off of the front and into the rough.

Norman always claimed even to this day that ball cost him some tournaments

[Davewn]

Greg Norman played a Spaulding Tour Edition ball that had a synthetic balata cover and spun more than a wound balata ball. If balls were made to spin more, driver designs would be altered to minimize the additional spin, and probably nothing much would change as far as distance is concerned. Norman was as long as his contemporaries, playing a higher spin ball.

 

That ball was incredible. Probably spun too much and could have cost him a major back in 1986 when he led all 4 majors on Sunday. I'll never forget the shots he was hitting into greens at Inverness in the PGA. Right before Tway holed out from the bunker on the 72nd hole, Norman hit a shot into the middle of the green that sucked back off of the front and into the rough.

Norman always claimed even to this day that ball cost him some tournaments

 

I'm sure he cashed those fat checks from Spalding though... the phrase "it's a poor craftsman that blames his tools" comes to mind

[NRJyzr]

I wouldn't mind seeing the old quasi-wound balls, like the Maxfli Revolution, A10, M3 red or black, the Srixon Hi-Brid, or the Slazenger Players. But I would be less excited at the prospect of the lack of durability of the average wound ball.

 

I'm fairly well pleased with the Wilson Staff options in their stead.

[dlygrisse]

The modern low compression ball feels a lot like balata but performs nothing like it. Spin and launch characteristics are totally different

[NRJyzr]

Try the 2016 model of the FG Tour. It'll dance for you ;)

 

(currently on closeout at BudgetGolf.com)

[Nard_S]

Been playing late generation HT 100, cover is quite durable, certainly not balata. Great ball.

 

If tour ever bifurcates it ought to replicate the mass distribution & characteristics. of the 3 piece wound ball. Wind and and bending of the ball is brought out more with this design. Also wound balls are simply harder to putt. They grab the break more and require a more aggressive stroke. Distance is equal for all intents, they just add a variability that makes course design more relevant without building new tee boxes.

 

If they sold it I would play them.

[BIG STU]

Don't laugh but the closest thing in modern stuff I have found to the Balata ball is the Master grip C-4 ball. My running partner Bear and his brother Checkers also agree. Actually they turned me on to those balls. The Callaway Super Soft runs a close 2nd. Both of those balls putt like a Balata to me and of course I use a non milled non insert putter

[Bigarch]

Perhaps the answer for bifurcation is a ball that has to have a minimum spin rate with a driver on Iron Byron....let's start with about double what players are trying to achieve now...maybe more....how about 6,000 with a driver?

 

I know that sounds ridiculous but the governing bodies are getting it wrong by trying to add length to courses. The courses that stand the test of time, like Harbor Town on tour every year, are courses that require you to bend the ball. That's where the skill level comes into play and where current tour players struggle. If you only require them to hit it straight, you can't make a golf course long enough.

 

So let's make the ball spin more and see who can control their ball best. Bring back the skill of shotmaking!

[HoganApexBlades]

Perhaps the answer for bifurcation is a ball that has to have a minimum spin rate with a driver on Iron Byron....let's start with about double what players are trying to achieve now...maybe more....how about 6,000 with a driver?

 

I know that sounds ridiculous but the governing bodies are getting it wrong by trying to add length to courses. The courses that stand the test of time, like Harbor Town on tour every year, are courses that require you to bend the ball. That's where the skill level comes into play and where current tour players struggle. If you only require them to hit it straight, you can't make a golf course long enough.

 

So let's make the ball spin more and see who can control their ball best. Bring back the skill of shotmaking!

 

Another thought onto yours, every new U.S. Open and PGA Championship course used will have dogleg par 4's and double dogleg par 5's to uphill, perched, postage-stamped sized greens...with moats and sharks with lasers...

[Petunia Sprinkle]

They’re too...rubbery.

[BIG STU]

Perhaps the answer for bifurcation is a ball that has to have a minimum spin rate with a driver on Iron Byron....let's start with about double what players are trying to achieve now...maybe more....how about 6,000 with a driver?

 

I know that sounds ridiculous but the governing bodies are getting it wrong by trying to add length to courses. The courses that stand the test of time, like Harbor Town on tour every year, are courses that require you to bend the ball. That's where the skill level comes into play and where current tour players struggle. If you only require them to hit it straight, you can't make a golf course long enough.

 

So let's make the ball spin more and see who can control their ball best. Bring back the skill of shotmaking!

You know this too Arch most modern balls are aerodynamically tricked up and no one but Bubba can curve and work one like we used too. Actually I can hit the Bridgestone E series balls straight. I can not hit my baby cut with spin to stop one either. Bear and I were messing around a couple of months ago and he had me hitting bunker shots with a E-6 to put his point forward to some guys. Told them "See Stu can not stop one" Then he threw me a Chrome Super Soft and that hopped and stopped. BTW that was not with a" modern conforming" wedge that was with a 30 year old half a**ed worn out Wilson JP 56. Now I do sacrifice maybe 5 yards off the tee with a softer ball like the SS or Srixon Soft Feel but I do not care I can work those softer balls better not like balata but close. The real sleeper ball out of all of them is the Master Grip C-4. I get as good of distance with them as I do a Pro V and spin the crap out of them

[NRJyzr]

Stu, not surprised you don't spin an e6, they're largely designed not to. They were originally marketed to those who want to hit the ball straighter. :)

 

Feel is pretty good, though

[cxx]

Golf would probably be blamed for some genocide someplace if balata were to regain favor. Golf ball manufacturers would be targeted by activists. Things would go south.

 

Hey, it happened to Gibson over wood. The Feds even jumped on the bandwagon.

[Londoner]

Guy's can we at least try and spell Spalding correctly.

 

J

 

KO.

[baloo]

Don't laugh but the closest thing in modern stuff I have found to the Balata ball is the Master grip C-4 ball. My running partner Bear and his brother Checkers also agree. Actually they turned me on to those balls. The Callaway Super Soft runs a close 2nd. Both of those balls putt like a Balata to me and of course I use a non milled non insert putter

 

May have to try these. I've looked at them in the past on account of their price point.

 

I have a number of Srixon Z Stars to get through first though. They're OK, but I'm not a huge fan.

[baudi]

So what happened to the old tooling to produce balatas?

Still there or destroyed?

[BIG STU]

So what happened to the old tooling to produce balatas?

Still there or destroyed?

It is not so much the tooling but in a nutshell they were destroying the rain forests getting the balata from some kind of gum tree. As far as mass production it would be much harder I would think now days to make a wound balata ball. Actually if someone was to re tool (in a nutshell) and produce balata wound balls again the price would be high. Remember those things are not durable like a modern ball not even close. With a big young hitter they would go out of round in 3 holes or less. I bet some of those long drive guys could put one out of round in 1 hit. Now some of the old farts like me that can not break an egg anymore we could probably get 18 holes out of one unless we hit one thin or hit a tree or cart path

[BIG STU]

Stu, not surprised you don't spin an e6, they're largely designed not to. They were originally marketed to those who want to hit the ball straighter. :)

 

Feel is pretty good, though

Yep I did some work in the simulator with those and the reason I can get good distance off the driver because it does limit my side spin. If I was playing a scramble I would hit one off the tee and then switch to one of my regular balls for the approach unless the rules prohibited it. But Bear had me doing the test I described to prove a point to some guys.

[NRJyzr]

So what happened to the old tooling to produce balatas?

Still there or destroyed?

It is not so much the tooling but in a nutshell they were destroying the rain forests getting the balata from some kind of gum tree. As far as mass production it would be much harder I would think now days to make a wound balata ball. Actually if someone was to re tool (in a nutshell) and produce balata wound balls again the price would be high. Remember those things are not durable like a modern ball not even close. With a big young hitter they would go out of round in 3 holes or less. I bet some of those long drive guys could put one out of round in 1 hit. Now some of the old farts like me that can not break an egg anymore we could probably get 18 holes out of one unless we hit one thin or hit a tree or cart path

 

Towards the end, before the switch to urethane, I believe they were using a synthetic balata cover for the actual Balata balls.

 

I remember reading that, towards the end, there were only a couple manufacturers remaining that could still do the wound balls, Titleist and Maxfli. I suppose there could have been another in there, not sure. I would assume the winding machinery in the Maxfli world would have changed hands to TaylorMade when they acquired them, not sure it would still remain. Titleist holding on to their own machinery would depend on how many wound balls they might still make for staffers, since there were some that never changed. I'm guessing that number is zero by now, or something very close to it.

[augustgolf]

So what happened to the old tooling to produce balatas?

Still there or destroyed?

It is not so much the tooling but in a nutshell they were destroying the rain forests getting the balata from some kind of gum tree. As far as mass production it would be much harder I would think now days to make a wound balata ball. Actually if someone was to re tool (in a nutshell) and produce balata wound balls again the price would be high. Remember those things are not durable like a modern ball not even close. With a big young hitter they would go out of round in 3 holes or less. I bet some of those long drive guys could put one out of round in 1 hit. Now some of the old farts like me that can not break an egg anymore we could probably get 18 holes out of one unless we hit one thin or hit a tree or cart path

 

Well now...if ball makers could figure out a way to make a good "balata-like" ball with a gum type of material from kudzu....we'd NEVER run out of materials to make 'em!

[farmer]

So what happened to the old tooling to produce balatas?

Still there or destroyed?

It is not so much the tooling but in a nutshell they were destroying the rain forests getting the balata from some kind of gum tree. As far as mass production it would be much harder I would think now days to make a wound balata ball. Actually if someone was to re tool (in a nutshell) and produce balata wound balls again the price would be high. Remember those things are not durable like a modern ball not even close. With a big young hitter they would go out of round in 3 holes or less. I bet some of those long drive guys could put one out of round in 1 hit. Now some of the old farts like me that can not break an egg anymore we could probably get 18 holes out of one unless we hit one thin or hit a tree or cart path

I have a couple of sleeves in an indoor closet. I am not a big hitter by any definition, so as an experiment I took one to the barn to try it out. After three solid strikes with my modest ss, the ball was visibly deformed. After five, it would have been unplayable. Either the rubber bands had lost so much stretch that the balata cover was just a container, or a wound balata ball won't tolerate a metal driver. I would be surprised if the equipment to build these balls is still around, and I agree, the balls would be very expensive.

[cxx]

So what happened to the old tooling to produce balatas?

Still there or destroyed?

It is not so much the tooling but in a nutshell they were destroying the rain forests getting the balata from some kind of gum tree. As far as mass production it would be much harder I would think now days to make a wound balata ball. Actually if someone was to re tool (in a nutshell) and produce balata wound balls again the price would be high. Remember those things are not durable like a modern ball not even close. With a big young hitter they would go out of round in 3 holes or less. I bet some of those long drive guys could put one out of round in 1 hit. Now some of the old farts like me that can not break an egg anymore we could probably get 18 holes out of one unless we hit one thin or hit a tree or cart path

I have a couple of sleeves in an indoor closet. I am not a big hitter by any definition, so as an experiment I took one to the barn to try it out. After three solid strikes with my modest ss, the ball was visibly deformed. After five, it would have been unplayable. Either the rubber bands had lost so much stretch that the balata cover was just a container, or a wound balata ball won't tolerate a metal driver. I would be surprised if the equipment to build these balls is still around, and I agree, the balls would be very expensive.

 

I'm pretty sure that the materials used in the wound balata ball degrade over time. If you've stretched an old rubber band you know that they snap almost immediately. The balata covers were somewhat porous. The ball would get waterlogged if left in the water too long. Air would have an easier time than water getting through the cover.

 

Those balata balls from the last production run are nothing like they were when new. Not sure why anyone saves them, except to look at.

[84425]

I would love to have a (modern) ball that has the same playing characteristics as the old balata's. Surely it should be possible to produce a ball from more durable materials that has the same feel, compression and spin the old balata used to have. No need for rubber or balata (and hence less stressful on those limited resources), and possibly even a bit more durable than the old balata's.

 

I really, really want to be able to hit (intentional) hooks and slices with my 7 iron again, and those low pitching wedges into greens that bite into the green after one hop.

 

The problem is that none of the ball manufacturers have any interest in producing a ball that has a spinrate roughly double that of todays balls. Reason being that that way you don't hit your modern driver any further with those high spinning balls than the old persimmon drivers (not that that matters to anyone in this part of WRX). I think that is where the whole "ball development" went wrong: trying to create a ball that took maximum advantage of the characteristics of the modern drivers: low spin.

 

If only there was one or two ball R&D guys from Titleist (or any other ball manufacturer) that would take it up as a side project to develop a modern balata ball (or a modern wound ball; i was always more of a fan of the Titleist 384PTS90 than the Tour Balata). Problem is that there is just not enough of a market for those balls as it will pretty much only be the classic and hickory players that will be interested (and perhaps one or two tour players that would like to have more control over what their bal does, rather than think distance is the be all end all of golf).

 

Would be interesting to know what the costs of producing a ball would be. The fact that for instance McIntyre is using an excisting ball for their hickory balls, would suggest that it is too expensive to actually produce a whole ball from scratch. But maybe if we combine forces (develop a standard ball that can get a hickory shell for hickory players and regular dimples for the classic players).

[freddiec]

The old balatas are funny, I have had a few that are still great. A few years ago I had one I hit with my 1954 m85w ( The club has the original shaft in leather grip ) on the 18th At Salem CC, I connected like never before and I swear it went 250 like the ball was new.

[Lime Shark]

Guy's can we at least try and spell Spalding correctly.

 

Great idea!

 

Spawling

Spauldin

Spaldeen

 

Were any of those correct?

[augustgolf]

Guy's can we at least try and spell Spalding correctly.

 

Great idea!

 

Spawling

Spauldin

Spaldeen

 

Were any of those correct?

 

 

 

[farmer]

cxx, I wasn't saving these old balls, they were in the closet and I mostly forgot about them. I like to try different balls, and these kind of went deeper and deeper into the closet.

[Pepperturbo]

I learned the game playing Balata, and then Professional 100's, and butter knives (which are in the garage). Reached single digit despite limitations. Though I always love the challenge I have no desire to go back to mushy Balata facing today's golf courses; much less at my age. :beach: