Maltby TS2

[NRJyzr]

40 minutes ago, jfrank said:

The AW/PW/9 are solid clubs and are really consistent on carry distance.  The velocity slot starts in the 8i and up.  I get the occasional 7i that carries 185 instead of 175 and the occasional 8i that goes 170 instead of 160.  I've really ruined a few par 3's with the long miss over the pin.

 

Do you think a 1025 carbon steel faced iron without a velocity slot would be more repeatable?

 

I don't know that the slot is the reason for the non-lie-related flier you're seeing.  You just need a clubhead, or golfball, that gives you more spin to help prevent those slightly-above-CG fliers.

 

The material used isn't going to be the issue, the overall clubhead design would be the cause.  And the source for the solution.

 

That said, from various review comments I've seen, any number of Maltby heads will give you what you need in that regard.

 

Edited May 1 by NRJyzr

[Cwebb]

5 hours ago, jfrank said:

Hello Maltby enthusiasts,

 

Coming back for some help.  I have a set of TM SIM (the original non-OS variety) irons I replaced the shafts on in 2023 - went from the 90g KBS MAX to FST 125 in the AW, PW, 9, 8, 7 irons and FST 115 in the 6 & 5 irons.  I trimmed the FST shafts to a S+ designation.  The new shafts have been much more accurate and a better feel for me with the added weight.  I hit them just as far as the KBS.

 

The AW/PW/9 are solid clubs and are really consistent on carry distance.  The velocity slot starts in the 8i and up.  I get the occasional 7i that carries 185 instead of 175 and the occasional 8i that goes 170 instead of 160.  I've really ruined a few par 3's with the long miss over the pin.

 

Do you think a 1025 carbon steel faced iron without a velocity slot would be more repeatable?  Now that the Maltby TS2 is down to $40/head, I'm considering buying a set and shafting them with some Project X IO pulls.  I need to move fast if that's the recommendation, as it looks like the TS2 PW is already sold out.  I'd use a standard 50degree Maltby wedge as the GW.

 

I love the forgiveness of the SIMs, but I really need something that doesn't get that PXG-style super flusher with lower spin.  I recently replaced my 4iron with a KE4 MAX that I built and was impressed with the head quality for that $30 unit.

 

I recently did a Callaway fitting at the club and was right on the S/X line once again on the iron shafts - good to have that validation.  Thank you all so much!

 

The TS2 still has a thin "active" face.  In looking for more precise distance control, I would try a more "traditional" solid face.  Which would be the TS3, TS4, TE+, or KE4 Tour and Max

 

If you like the KE4 Max in a 4 iron, why not try to replace more of your set with that design?

 

If you didn't want to go all the way down the set with those, there's plenty of ways you could combo them with something else.  The KE4 Tour being one good option for that.

Edited May 1 by Cwebb

[jfrank]

2 hours ago, Cwebb said:

 

If you like the KE4 Max in a 4 iron, why not try to replace more of your set with that design?

 

If you didn't want to go all the way down the set with those, there's plenty of ways you could combo them with something else.  The KE4 Tour being one good option for that.

Valid point, especially considering the value!  My logic on not going that route prior includes:

I never liked the look of the KE4+Tour (squiggly lines and triangle wrench holes) head and the lofts on those make it hard to transition to the strong-lofted KE4Max irons.  I also wanted something with better feel like you get in a forged head.  The KE4 Max makes a good, forgiving hybrid/driving iron in the 20degree loft that gets the ball up in the air and doesn't care if the impact is toey, but it lacks feel.  Both of the KE4 models also limit me to the .370 hosel instead of the universal hosel in the forged offerings.  

 

I still want the game improvement distance (some form of hollow or large CB), just want it in a package that blends well with the current wedges (54/58) and hybrid (18-19deg) with a number I can rely on from a good lie and minimal wind.  @NRJyzer made a great point about the CG; that's probably the culprit of a lot of the lack of spin issue in the OEM game improvement lineup.  Upon researching the CG issue, the TS2 may be a good higher-CG head (at least when looking at the 6iron) for me since I do get a lot of shaft lean.  I will be sure to play the regular ProV1 more religiously since a few of the issues have come while gaming the ProV1X or TP5X.  Those few extra yards off the tee don't help if you fly an 8iron over the green.

[Cwebb]

1 hour ago, jfrank said:

Valid point, especially considering the value!  My logic on not going that route prior includes:

I never liked the look of the KE4+Tour (squiggly lines and triangle wrench holes) head and the lofts on those make it hard to transition to the strong-lofted KE4Max irons.  I also wanted something with better feel like you get in a forged head.  The KE4 Max makes a good, forgiving hybrid/driving iron in the 20degree loft that gets the ball up in the air and doesn't care if the impact is toey, but it lacks feel.  Both of the KE4 models also limit me to the .370 hosel instead of the universal hosel in the forged offerings.  

 

I still want the game improvement distance (some form of hollow or large CB), just want it in a package that blends well with the current wedges (54/58) and hybrid (18-19deg) with a number I can rely on from a good lie and minimal wind.  @NRJyzer made a great point about the CG; that's probably the culprit of a lot of the lack of spin issue in the OEM game improvement lineup.  Upon researching the CG issue, the TS2 may be a good higher-CG head (at least when looking at the 6iron) for me since I do get a lot of shaft lean.  I will be sure to play the regular ProV1 more religiously since a few of the issues have come while gaming the ProV1X or TP5X.  Those few extra yards off the tee don't help if you fly an 8iron over the green.

 

If you're talking about your contact tending to be low-ish on the face, you want a lower AVCOG (sweet-spot), not a higher one.  This makes solid contact easier to achieve and will promote better distance control.

 

The further we can drive the AVCOG beneath the center of the ball, the higher the spin will tend to be (all else equal).  Remember that irons and wedges do not have gear effect, like Driver, woods, and hybrids do.

 

A .370" hosel is no issue at all for taper shafts, with the use of shims.  We use them all the time, with no problems.

 

 

 

Edited May 1 by Cwebb

[AZstu324]

FYI, anybody who might be considering a set of TS4's, Gabe from Letsplaythru just got my personal set to review yesterday. He'll be dropping a video in the next few days. We all know what's possible after that. 

 

I'm guessing that the audience they will appeal to might not be as broad as the TS1-IM's but you never know. 

 

He may also totally hate them but I'm not anticipating that to happen 😜.

 

 

[WasatchBogey]

On 4/29/2024 at 9:10 PM, Sp4zRX said:

 

I’ve had the TS1-IM 7i, 9i, and 4i for a couple weeks now. I have experienced the same thing on mishits, they still just fly almost like a well stuck shot. It’s pretty impressive. 
 

They don’t feel as soft, nice as my ZX5s but I think the overall forgiveness is probably worth it. 
 

They got all the TS1-IMs back in stock today so I have the rest of the set on order. 
 

Thanks for the heads up, just grabbed the 8 & GW to complete my set👍

[Mike_C]

On 4/29/2024 at 10:10 PM, Sp4zRX said:

They got all the TS1-IMs back in stock today so I have the rest of the set on order. 

 

Yup, I have a friend that ordered 5-PW TS1-IMs heads yesterday.  And he just put a set of Ping i530s in the bag about 10 days ago.  And he isn't even a WRXer.....

[Bryceslu]

2 hours ago, Mike_C said:

 

Yup, I have a friend that ordered 5-PW TS1-IMs heads yesterday.  And he just put a set of Ping i530s in the bag about 10 days ago.  And he isn't even a WRXer.....

I just ordered 3-GW (3i bent to 19*) yesterday 🙂

[Mulliganizer]

Even after reading multiple pages from this post, I still can't figure out if I want the TS4 or the TS1-IM... 😵

[Cameron Circle T]

Why not both. I jest. I've owned both. They're very very similar. Really can't go wrong with either, or a mixed set. I'm now trying a TS3 4 and 5 iron to match my TS4 6-9

[mustang]

54 minutes ago, Mulliganizer said:

Even after reading multiple pages from this post, I still can't figure out if I want the TS4 or the TS1-IM... 😵

I have the TS-3 and TS-1IM.    I still will HAVE to try the TS-4 eventually.   You won't be wrong with whatever you choose.

[Mulliganizer]

1 hour ago, Cameron Circle T said:

Why not both. I jest. I've owned both. They're very very similar. Really can't go wrong with either, or a mixed set. I'm now trying a TS3 4 and 5 iron to match my TS4 6-9

I agree, expect my pocket book doesn't 😛 

[Bryceslu]

11 hours ago, Mulliganizer said:

Even after reading multiple pages from this post, I still can't figure out if I want the TS4 or the TS1-IM... 😵

They are very similar. I just went with the TS1IM because of the crazy distance in off center strikes. The TS4 is still an awesome club and forgiving…but the TS1IM was honestly shocking on toe side strikes. 
I will be waiting for the TS4 in DBM finish. Envisioning perfection there. 

Edited May 2 by Bryceslu

[Mulliganizer]

11 hours ago, Bryceslu said:

They are very similar. I just went with the TS1IM because of the crazy distance in off center strikes. The TS4 is still an awesome club and forgiving…but the TS1IM was honestly shocking on toe side strikes. 
I will be waiting for the TS4 in DBM finish. Envisioning perfection there. 

I'll buy your TS1-IMs off you then 😛 

[Klubster]

12 hours ago, Mulliganizer said:

Even after reading multiple pages from this post, I still can't figure out if I want the TS4 or the TS1-IM... 😵

If you look at the specs from the MPF data, they are extremely close.  There is a little difference in loft, but little else IMO.

[wantacigar]

OK, here's a wrench in the Maltby discussion:

My driver likes to behave for about 5 rounds then goes all rebel on me for about 5 rounds.  A good drive carries 220-230. I have a Maltby KE 4 Tour TC 16* 4W that I hit off the tee 195-220 depending upon strike and conditions.  No wind on a good strike 215 ish.  Has anyone considered getting the new KE4 TC Pro adjustable 3W (14*) and turning it down to 13* and using it as a mini driver?  If I could get 220-225 in the fairway I would take the 10-15 yard loss, it would save me strokes for when the driver acts up and I have to put it in Time-Out.

 

By doing so the face angle goes from .5* open to 2* open.  The 4W is .5* open and I don't have an issue with fading at all.  My driver miss is a fade/push fade.  Also wondering if the 2* open will affect me on the shorter shaft?

 

 

Edit:  As a side note I was considering replacing my TSW DRM 56* with a Max Milled 54* & 58*.  I'm really getting the hang of this wedge to where I can pitch and chip from any lie from 40 yards out.  Sand play is another story.  I think it's the swing so I'm working on it and considering just keeping this club in my bag.  I can open it and flop it like a 58 or 60.  I have the TSW DRM 50* for those mid pitches 40-60 yards and longer chips that I need roll out.  

 

I really hate my tinkering nature sometimes.  

Edited May 2 by wantacigar

[jfrank]

22 hours ago, Cwebb said:

 

If you're talking about your contact tending to be low-ish on the face, you want a lower AVCOG (sweet-spot), not a higher one.  This makes solid contact easier to achieve and will promote better distance control.

 

The further we can drive the AVCOG beneath the center of the ball, the higher the spin will tend to be (all else equal).  Remember that irons and wedges do not have gear effect, like Driver, woods, and hybrids do.

 

A .370" hosel is no issue at all for taper shafts, with the use of shims.  We use them all the time, with no problems.

 

 

 

Contact for me is typically higher on the face.  I hit down and through the ball, with an average of -6deg AOA with a 7 iron on TrackMan.  Hefty divots that usually start at the base of the ball.  With my SIM Max irons, the COG is measured at 0.574" back/deep from the leading edge and 0.714" AVCOG (quite low compared to a Ping and similar to a KE4).  Does the lack of gearing still apply when the CG gets that (0.5"+) deep in the iron?  By the AVCOG control logic, any Ping iron (AVCOG approaching 0.9") would be tough to strike and wouldn't spin enough to hold a green without ample shaft lean and speed.  The Ping G425/430 are poorly rated by Maltby metrics, but obviously they're very easy to hit by beginners, at the top of the Game Improvement realm.  

 

The velocity slot behind the thin face on the Taylormade irons makes a different sound, almost like a crack, which is amplified when you catch one higher on the face, where the face is even thinner.  The SIM MAX had a 17% reduction in face thickness on average from the M6.  The urethane slot insert in my 7i is starting to squirm.  The short irons without the slot only sound different if you thin one (like every other iron).

 

I get that the VCOG can have more control over launch and spin than the shaft and other parameters, but I would believe it also varies non-linearly when the CG gets driven deeper from the face.  Spin effects will start to be more hybrid-like with the wide-sole/deep-cut/thin-face designs, won't they?

[mstuewe]

15 hours ago, Mulliganizer said:

Even after reading multiple pages from this post, I still can't figure out if I want the TS4 or the TS1-IM... 😵

People say they are similar but I don’t agree.  

 

Do you want high or low spin?  I saw the TS1-IM 7 iron spin about 500 RPM less and launch nearly the same as the TS4.  The TS1-IM carried 7 yards further because of the low spin.

[groovingrover]

Not to be too Reddit-joke about it but got a lifelong diagnosis today, so the TS4s are probably on their way lol

[Cwebb]

35 minutes ago, jfrank said:

Contact for me is typically higher on the face.  I hit down and through the ball, with an average of -6deg AOA with a 7 iron on TrackMan.  Hefty divots that usually start at the base of the ball.  With my SIM Max irons, the COG is measured at 0.574" back/deep from the leading edge and 0.714" AVCOG (quite low compared to a Ping and similar to a KE4).  Does the lack of gearing still apply when the CG gets that (0.5"+) deep in the iron?  By the AVCOG control logic, any Ping iron (AVCOG approaching 0.9") would be tough to strike and wouldn't spin enough to hold a green without ample shaft lean and speed.  The Ping G425/430 are poorly rated by Maltby metrics, but obviously they're very easy to hit by beginners, at the top of the Game Improvement realm.  

 

The velocity slot behind the thin face on the Taylormade irons makes a different sound, almost like a crack, which is amplified when you catch one higher on the face, where the face is even thinner.  The SIM MAX had a 17% reduction in face thickness on average from the M6.  The urethane slot insert in my 7i is starting to squirm.  The short irons without the slot only sound different if you thin one (like every other iron).

 

I get that the VCOG can have more control over launch and spin than the shaft and other parameters, but I would believe it also varies non-linearly when the CG gets driven deeper from the face.  Spin effects will start to be more hybrid-like with the wide-sole/deep-cut/thin-face designs, won't they?

 

Keeping in mind that pure solid contact with an iron, requires that the "force path" of the AVCOG arrives at.. or better yet under the center of the ball, which is .840" when sitting on a tight lie.

 

If the AVCOG arrives anywhere above the center of the ball, contact is "thin" and full energy transfer and pure solid contact is lacking......results in loss of distance, less consistency of distance.  This does not necessarily mean that spin and peak height will be so different that we can't hold a green.

 

As a player who hits down and through plenty, with contact getting up the face easily,....you will probably fit better into more "mid" to slightly "higher" AVCOG's within the optimal zone below the center of the ball.  A general estimate would be about .750" to .800".  You could try slightly lower if you were looking for more spin and easier to hit from tighter lies, or a hair higher if wanting less spin.

 

The Ping irons with high AVCOG's are forgiving in general, but harder to hit pure for many players, especially from normal fairway to tighter lies.  There are better choices overall, if you know what details to look for and what matches your characteristics.  They definitely can go a long way from up lies or from a tee....and we all know that more distance can sell a club, even if the % is low for how often that distance happens.

 

Hollow irons with thin faces tend to produce a little less spin, all else equal.  The Maltby TS1-im is generally the lowest spin design in their current lineup, because it has a little "higher" AVCOG (.788") within the optimal zone,....along with the thin active face.

 

Gear effect just isn't there with irons.  The COG isn't deep enough.  Here's an article by an engineer on it...https://www.tutelman.com/golf/ballflight/gearEffect.php

 

[Popeye64]

18 hours ago, Mulliganizer said:

Even after reading multiple pages from this post, I still can't figure out if I want the TS4 or the TS1-IM... 😵

Blend them. 

[Mulliganizer]

2 hours ago, Popeye64 said:

Blend them. 

5-7 on TS1-IM and 8-PW on TS4?

[Cameron Circle T]

13 minutes ago, Mulliganizer said:

5-7 on TS1-IM and 8-PW on TS4?

I'd probably just go 5-6 or 5 alone.  The 6 iron and 7 iron are basically the same offset etc. between the TS4 and TS1

[Mulliganizer]

12 minutes ago, Cameron Circle T said:

I'd probably just go 5-6 or 5 alone.  The 6 iron and 7 iron are basically the same offset etc. between the TS4 and TS1

Sounds like a plan. Now just need to figure out if I need for length and what lie for my short-arm-itis

 

Then the bag would look like...
 

Driver: Taylormade Sim2 9*

3W: Taylormade Stealth Plus 15*

"5W": Callaway UW 19*

Irons: H4 - 23* Iron Maltby KE4 Tour | 5-6 TS1-IM | 7-PW TS4

Gap: 48°-10 TBD

SW: 52°-10 TBD

Lob: 58°-08 TBD
Putter:  TBD

 

Kinda like it..

Edited May 2 by Mulliganizer

[RSLP]

8 hours ago, wantacigar said:

using it as a mini driver

Recommend you pay for a driver fitting, and ask Britt at GWs what his options would be to match the fitting results.  Bet one of the glued heads will work for you.  

[terry55]

1 hour ago, Mulliganizer said:

5-7 on TS1-IM and 8-PW on TS4?

Forget the TS1-IM. Get the TS1 while they are still available. Huge savings and still get all the performance you are looking for.

[Popeye64]

1 hour ago, Mulliganizer said:

5-7 on TS1-IM and 8-PW on TS4?

I would add the GW. But that set should be a lot of fun. 

[Popeye64]

The low swing weight of the KE4 TC Pro FW 5 left me with a bad taste. Hitting it back to back with the TM Stealth 2 was difficult as the swingweight difference is huge. So I wanted to give the Pro a decent shake. Time by itself. The shaft is a Graphite Design Tour AD IZ-7. So the club has great overall weight to it. After a quick range session I had it in play twice. The course I played was long and the club saw plenty of action. A few standout holes really test this club. A 457 yard par 4 that's uphill. Twice the second shot was 215 up hill to a cupped green. Easily playing 225 with a cross wind. Both days the ball stayed on the putting surface. The club has a good sized rocker front to back that is extremely turf friendly. Fairways are still a bit thin. So lies are tight. 

The second great test for this club is a down hill dog leg par 4. If you can hit a high draw you can find the putting surface. But you have carry a forest. One was on the green and one just off. 

I found the club to be very easy to play. With out much thought the club responds to your swing. On the simulator it seemed to give up some distance to the Sim 2. But it was back to back shots, in which I was actually struggling with the Pro. So much so i was pretty sour on it. But in play I feel this club gives up nothing. It has easily found the distances needed, with accuracy.

Comparing the Pro to the Sim 2, I visually like the Pro quite a bit more. Though they measure out to be similar in size the Pro looks smaller. But in a good way. It also sets up behind the ball better. The sole of the Pro has more of that radius where the Sim 2 extends out to the toe a bit more. It's a bit more turf friendly than the Sim2.

I'm very surprised how much I like the Pro after my first go around. I was convinced it was a dud. I'm glad I gave it the shake down it deserved. 

[Mulliganizer]

1 hour ago, terry55 said:

Forget the TS1-IM. Get the TS1 while they are still available. Huge savings and still get all the performance you are looking for.

But daddddd I want the cool looking one, it will make me a better golfer! 😛

[Mako J]

2 hours ago, Mulliganizer said:

Sounds like a plan. Now just need to figure out if I need for length and what lie for my short-arm-itis

 

Then the bag would look like...
 

Driver: Taylormade Sim2 9*

3W: Taylormade Stealth Plus 15*

"5W": Callaway UW 19*

Irons: H4 - 23* Iron Maltby KE4 Tour | 5-6 TS1-IM | 7-PW TS4

Gap: 48°-10 TBD

SW: 52°-10 TBD

Lob: 58°-08 TBD
Putter:  TBD

 

Kinda like it..

Not for nothing but I love my TS4 GW.