Could Augusta National Have a Local Rule Banning Leaving the Pin In?

[xxio]

For the guys that say it slows play.

 

For me it is like tending a flag for someone on a long putt. If someone wants it out, I pull it, step to the side then put it back in after. I would think that is at least as fast.

 

People will get used to it and the pin in/out decisions faster.

 

Pin in has sped up play in my course. This is from seeing groups finishing up on the 9th and 18th while having a drink on the veranda.

[iBanesto]

I really hope so, ANGC should step up against this mess.

 

Local rule that drops must be from shoulder height as well?!

[6hcphacker]

Not sure this is even a consideration for them. Why would they stray from an official rule of golf, by ALL the governing bodies. That tournament tries to be the very definition of what the game is, I just cant see how they go against it becasue they "feel" it is the right thing to do. Time goes on, things change, it happens. Or maybe they force the flagstick out but let a caddie help read a putt...interesting trade-off???

 

Trade off ? The caddies can already help the player read putts,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

My mistake, I was referring the rule about caddies behind players when lining up a putt. You are correct.

[Sawgrass]

Not sure this is even a consideration for them. Why would they stray from an official rule of golf, by ALL the governing bodies. That tournament tries to be the very definition of what the game is, I just cant see how they go against it becasue they "feel" it is the right thing to do. Time goes on, things change, it happens. Or maybe they force the flagstick out but let a caddie help read a putt...interesting trade-off???

 

Trade off ? The caddies can already help the player read putts,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

My mistake, I was referring the rule about caddies behind players when lining up a putt. You are correct.

Above is an example of why the tours, and the Masters, adopt the official Rules of Golf. Ya start messin' with them, and you screw up worse than if you follow them.

[nsxguy]

Not sure this is even a consideration for them. Why would they stray from an official rule of golf, by ALL the governing bodies. That tournament tries to be the very definition of what the game is, I just cant see how they go against it becasue they "feel" it is the right thing to do. Time goes on, things change, it happens. Or maybe they force the flagstick out but let a caddie help read a putt...interesting trade-off???

 

Trade off ? The caddies can already help the player read putts,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

My mistake, I was referring the rule about caddies behind players when lining up a putt. You are correct.

 

You're not quite there yet. The caddie can still be behind a player when lining up a putt. He can't be there when the player begins to take his/her stance.

 

But even there, or anywhere else, there will be NO "trade off". IMO ANGC is not going to override/modify a Rule of Golf in their tournament unless it's with an approved "Model Local Rule". ;)

[Vindog]

Why would they?

 

Really we should be giving this type of question more thought. Why would they? Is this really the battle they want? I highly doubt it. Like i said before, people need someone they feel is strong enough to stick it to the big bad USGA. The PGA Tour won't do it, The Masters won't do it. Besides the fact that both of those entities were likely consulted during the rules review, so it's not like this is a surprise to them.

 

It was fun to discuss the new flagstick rule, and I myself was/am ambivalent to it, but now it's in full effect. And much like I surmised in the months leading up to Jan 1, 2019 it has not hampered my enjoyment of golf at all. In fact the new rules give me something new to watch for.

[imakaveli]

I really hope so, ANGC should step up against this mess.

 

Local rule that drops must be from shoulder height as well?!

 

That would be great!

[nsxguy]

I really hope so, ANGC should step up against this mess.

 

Local rule that drops must be from shoulder height as well?!

 

That would be great!

 

I'm not sure which confusion/argument about the new Rules is sillier - the flagstick left in or the drop from knee height. :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:

[imakaveli]

I really hope so, ANGC should step up against this mess.

 

Local rule that drops must be from shoulder height as well?!

 

That would be great!

 

I'm not sure which confusion/argument about the new Rules is sillier - the flagstick left in or the drop from knee height. :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:

 

If you add the caddie rule it's a very dumb threesome I would expect only from USGA, I am very surprise it was shared by the R&A as well.

[Sawgrass]

I really hope so, ANGC should step up against this mess.

 

Local rule that drops must be from shoulder height as well?!

 

That would be great!

 

I'm not sure which confusion/argument about the new Rules is sillier - the flagstick left in or the drop from knee height. :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:

 

If you add the caddie rule it's a very dumb threesome I would expect only from USGA, I am very surprise it was shared by the R&A as well.

The only way you can be "very surprise" is if you have no idea whatsoever how golf's rules are created. I'd hold off on calling the rules "dumb" for now, you have some work to do first.

[nsxguy]

I really hope so, ANGC should step up against this mess.

 

Local rule that drops must be from shoulder height as well?!

 

That would be great!

 

I'm not sure which confusion/argument about the new Rules is sillier - the flagstick left in or the drop from knee height. :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:

 

If you add the caddie rule it's a very dumb threesome I would expect only from USGA, I am very surprise it was shared by the R&A as well.

 

So you're a continental-ist ? :lol:

 

IMO they, BOTH of them, certainly could have envisioned the issues that occurred about the caddie rule,,,,,,,,, but they didn't.

 

The chief takeaway from that though is all they really did was extend the time the caddie couldn't be there. Pretty simple when you come down to it, especially after the recent clarification.

 

So what NEW rule DO you like and/or think is pretty "simple" ? Did you "love" all the OLD rules ? :rolleyes:

[imakaveli]

 

Local rule that drops must be from shoulder height as well?!

 

That would be great!

 

I'm not sure which confusion/argument about the new Rules is sillier - the flagstick left in or the drop from knee height. :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:

 

If you add the caddie rule it's a very dumb threesome I would expect only from USGA, I am very surprise it was shared by the R&A as well.

The only way you can be "very surprise" is if you have no idea whatsoever how golf's rules are created. I'd hold off on calling the rules "dumb" for now, you have some work to do first.

 

Sorry I missed the "d" prof, English is not my first language. Anyway I still think those rules are dumb and they only add confusion, no work to do.

[imakaveli]

 

Local rule that drops must be from shoulder height as well?!

 

That would be great!

 

I'm not sure which confusion/argument about the new Rules is sillier - the flagstick left in or the drop from knee height. :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:

 

If you add the caddie rule it's a very dumb threesome I would expect only from USGA, I am very surprise it was shared by the R&A as well.

 

So you're a continental-ist ? :lol:

 

IMO they, BOTH of them, certainly could have envisioned the issues that occurred about the caddie rule,,,,,,,,, but they didn't.

 

The chief takeaway from that though is all they really did was extend the time the caddie couldn't be there. Pretty simple when you come down to it, especially after the recent clarification.

 

So what NEW rule DO you like and/or think is pretty "simple" ? Did you "love" all the OLD rules ? :rolleyes:

 

I love the 3 minutes rule even though I feel sorry for Royal Aberdeen's history. Instead of stupid dropping position or random penalization because of caddies I think the governing bodies should seriously penalize slow play, without being scared by top players being painfully slow.

[nsxguy]

 

I'm not sure which confusion/argument about the new Rules is sillier - the flagstick left in or the drop from knee height. :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:

 

If you add the caddie rule it's a very dumb threesome I would expect only from USGA, I am very surprise it was shared by the R&A as well.

 

So you're a continental-ist ? :lol:

 

IMO they, BOTH of them, certainly could have envisioned the issues that occurred about the caddie rule,,,,,,,,, but they didn't.

 

The chief takeaway from that though is all they really did was extend the time the caddie couldn't be there. Pretty simple when you come down to it, especially after the recent clarification.

 

So what NEW rule DO you like and/or think is pretty "simple" ? Did you "love" all the OLD rules ? :rolleyes:

 

I love the 3 minutes rule even though I feel sorry for Royal Aberdeen's history. Instead of stupid dropping position or random penalization because of caddies I think the governing bodies should seriously penalize slow play, without being scared by top players being painfully slow.

 

Ahhhhhh, a fast play fanatic. Do you have too much golf on TV ? :D

 

So what's "stupid" about the knee high drop position ? And what was less stupid about dropping from shoulder height ? :blink:

 

I mean after all, you appear to be a "fast play" guy and dropping from knee height was (at least partially) to speed up the game (and it works). I mean make up my mind, will ya ?!?!?! :lol:

[imakaveli]

I'm not sure which confusion/argument about the new Rules is sillier - the flagstick left in or the drop from knee height. :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:

 

If you add the caddie rule it's a very dumb threesome I would expect only from USGA, I am very surprise it was shared by the R&A as well.

 

So you're a continental-ist ? :lol:

 

IMO they, BOTH of them, certainly could have envisioned the issues that occurred about the caddie rule,,,,,,,,, but they didn't.

 

The chief takeaway from that though is all they really did was extend the time the caddie couldn't be there. Pretty simple when you come down to it, especially after the recent clarification.

 

So what NEW rule DO you like and/or think is pretty "simple" ? Did you "love" all the OLD rules ? :rolleyes:

 

I love the 3 minutes rule even though I feel sorry for Royal Aberdeen's history. Instead of stupid dropping position or random penalization because of caddies I think the governing bodies should seriously penalize slow play, without being scared by top players being painfully slow.

 

Ahhhhhh, a fast play fanatic. Do you have too much golf on TV ? :D

 

So what's "stupid" about the knee high drop position ? And what was less stupid about dropping from shoulder height ? :blink:

 

I mean after all, you appear to be a "fast play" guy and dropping from knee height was (at least partially) to speed up the game (and it works). I mean make up my mind, will ya ?!?!?! :lol:

 

Well if you don't think that dropping is stupid I won't be the one to make you change your mind ;)

[nsxguy]

 

I love the 3 minutes rule even though I feel sorry for Royal Aberdeen's history. Instead of stupid dropping position or random penalization because of caddies I think the governing bodies should seriously penalize slow play, without being scared by top players being painfully slow.

 

Ahhhhhh, a fast play fanatic. Do you have too much golf on TV ? :D

 

So what's "stupid" about the knee high drop position ? And what was less stupid about dropping from shoulder height ? :blink:

 

I mean after all, you appear to be a "fast play" guy and dropping from knee height was (at least partially) to speed up the game (and it works). I mean make up my mind, will ya ?!?!?! :lol:

 

Well if you don't think that dropping is stupid I won't be the one to make you change your mind ;)

 

Ohhhhhhhh, it's DROPPING you think it stupid (you DID say "stupid dropping position),,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, who knew ?

 

So then you believe that when you get relief in some deep rough you should be allowed to place it where and how you want ?

 

Yeah, I've heard that before from "some guys". :russian_roulette:

[imakaveli]

I love the 3 minutes rule even though I feel sorry for Royal Aberdeen's history. Instead of stupid dropping position or random penalization because of caddies I think the governing bodies should seriously penalize slow play, without being scared by top players being painfully slow.

 

Ahhhhhh, a fast play fanatic. Do you have too much golf on TV ? :D

 

So what's "stupid" about the knee high drop position ? And what was less stupid about dropping from shoulder height ? :blink:

 

I mean after all, you appear to be a "fast play" guy and dropping from knee height was (at least partially) to speed up the game (and it works). I mean make up my mind, will ya ?!?!?! :lol:

 

Well if you don't think that dropping is stupid I won't be the one to make you change your mind ;)

 

Ohhhhhhhh, it's DROPPING you think it stupid (you DID say "stupid dropping position),,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, who knew ?

 

So then you believe that when you get relief in some deep rough you should be allowed to place it where and how you want ?

 

Yeah, I've heard that before from "some guys". :russian_roulette:

 

What?

[nsxguy]

I love the 3 minutes rule even though I feel sorry for Royal Aberdeen's history. Instead of stupid dropping position or random penalization because of caddies I think the governing bodies should seriously penalize slow play, without being scared by top players being painfully slow.

 

Ahhhhhh, a fast play fanatic. Do you have too much golf on TV ? :D

 

So what's "stupid" about the knee high drop position ? And what was less stupid about dropping from shoulder height ? :blink:

 

I mean after all, you appear to be a "fast play" guy and dropping from knee height was (at least partially) to speed up the game (and it works). I mean make up my mind, will ya ?!?!?! :lol:

 

Well if you don't think that dropping is stupid I won't be the one to make you change your mind ;)

 

Ohhhhhhhh, it's DROPPING you think it stupid (you DID say "stupid dropping position),,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, who knew ?

 

So then you believe that when you get relief in some deep rough you should be allowed to place it where and how you want ?

 

Yeah, I've heard that before from "some guys". :russian_roulette:

 

What?

 

You forgot who, when, where, and why ? :taunt:

[Sawgrass]

I love the 3 minutes rule even though I feel sorry for Royal Aberdeen's history. Instead of stupid dropping position or random penalization because of caddies I think the governing bodies should seriously penalize slow play, without being scared by top players being painfully slow.

 

Ahhhhhh, a fast play fanatic. Do you have too much golf on TV ? :D

 

So what's "stupid" about the knee high drop position ? And what was less stupid about dropping from shoulder height ? :blink:

 

I mean after all, you appear to be a "fast play" guy and dropping from knee height was (at least partially) to speed up the game (and it works). I mean make up my mind, will ya ?!?!?! :lol:

 

Well if you don't think that dropping is stupid I won't be the one to make you change your mind ;)

 

Ohhhhhhhh, it's DROPPING you think it stupid (you DID say "stupid dropping position),,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, who knew ?

 

So then you believe that when you get relief in some deep rough you should be allowed to place it where and how you want ?

 

Yeah, I've heard that before from "some guys". :russian_roulette:

 

What?

Perhaps he’s saying that people who mindlessly call things they don’t like “stupid” tend to be confused themselves.

[imakaveli]

 

Ahhhhhh, a fast play fanatic. Do you have too much golf on TV ? :D

 

So what's "stupid" about the knee high drop position ? And what was less stupid about dropping from shoulder height ? :blink:

 

I mean after all, you appear to be a "fast play" guy and dropping from knee height was (at least partially) to speed up the game (and it works). I mean make up my mind, will ya ?!?!?! :lol:

 

Well if you don't think that dropping is stupid I won't be the one to make you change your mind ;)

 

Ohhhhhhhh, it's DROPPING you think it stupid (you DID say "stupid dropping position),,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, who knew ?

 

So then you believe that when you get relief in some deep rough you should be allowed to place it where and how you want ?

 

Yeah, I've heard that before from "some guys". :russian_roulette:

 

What?

Perhaps he’s saying that people who mindlessly call things they don’t like “stupid” tend to be confused themselves.

 

Eheh, well played, but still... ;)

[Roadking2003]

Now that randomness is out of the way. Back to the point.

 

It's slowing the game down because it won't be adopted wholesale as expected. No adjustments or dance learning will change that.

 

That may be true for you, but not for many of us. I've played 16 times this year and there is no doubt the new rule is speeding up play. In early January, there was some "leave it in" then "take it out" back and forth. Now, we all leave it in at least until all balls are close. Many times we never pull the pin. And we never have a player on the other side of the green waiting for somebody to tend the flag.

 

There is one other pace of play improvement I have noticed. In the past when waiting in the fairway for players to clear the green, I couldn't shoot the distance using my rangefinder until they finished putting are replaced the pin. Now, since most players are not pulling the pin, I can shoot the distance while the guys on the green are still putting. Then I'm ready to play as soon as they clear the green.

 

And who expected it to be adopted wholesale?

[Roadking2003]

I really hope so, ANGC should step up against this mess.

 

Local rule that drops must be from shoulder height as well?!

 

And mulligans?

[Roadking2003]

I really hope so, ANGC should step up against this mess.

 

Local rule that drops must be from shoulder height as well?!

 

That would be great!

 

I'm not sure which confusion/argument about the new Rules is sillier - the flagstick left in or the drop from knee height. :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:

 

If you add the caddie rule it's a very dumb threesome I would expect only from USGA, I am very surprise it was shared by the R&A as well.

 

Do you know if it was first proposed by the R&A?

[Roadking2003]

I love the 3 minutes rule even though I feel sorry for Royal Aberdeen's history. Instead of stupid dropping position or random penalization because of caddies I think the governing bodies should seriously penalize slow play, without being scared by top players being painfully slow.

 

Please explain "random penalization because of caddies". Where is that happening?

[imakaveli]

I really hope so, ANGC should step up against this mess.

 

Local rule that drops must be from shoulder height as well?!

 

And mulligans?

 

I am glad you got my point, that and the other posts :D oh boy

[gvogel]

I really hope so, ANGC should step up against this mess.

 

Local rule that drops must be from shoulder height as well?!

 

That would be great!

 

Even better over the back shoulder.

[bladehunter]

 

 

...It's slowing the game down because it won't be adopted wholesale as expected. No adjustments or dance learning will change that.

 

I played 9 yesterday and it was constant. In and out. Rediculous. And it was 3 wanting it out and 1 wanting it in. Sometimes. We obliged him and put it back every time he asked. But. It slowed us down....

 

 

How long did your round take?

 

Honestly don’t know. Guess would be around 1 hr 40 to 2 hour window. Which isn’t much off normal for 4 Walkers playing it down and putting out. Even if total time is relatively the same it adds work to keep the time in that window.

[bladehunter]

 

 

It's slowing the game down because it won't be adopted wholesale as expected. No adjustments or dance learning will change that.

 

I played 9 yesterday and it was constant. In and out. Rediculous. And it was 3 wanting it out and 1 wanting it in. Sometimes. We obliged him and put it back every time he asked. But. It slowed us down.

 

The rule very likely will stay as their ability to cut off their nose to spite their face is well documented. But speeding up the game it will not. The groups who want to putt Witt the pin in and not putt out have always done this. No gain there. The groups who compete and putt out have now muddy water to tread through as it's a mix of in and out and always will be. Slower is what it is.

 

I'm not sure if you mean that the people you were playing with were ridiculous, or the rule is.

 

If people are devoted to wasting time, they will succeed irrespective of any rule. (Just ask them how long they search for a lost ball!)

 

Suppose a little of both.

 

I don’t know if I’m actual time it slowed us down. But it sure adds in more work and thought process to keep pace.

[bladehunter]

For the guys that say it slows play.

 

For me it is like tending a flag for someone on a long putt. If someone wants it out, I pull it, step to the side then put it back in after. I would think that is at least as fast.

 

People will get used to it and the pin in/out decisions faster.

 

Pin in has sped up play in my course. This is from seeing groups finishing up on the 9th and 18th while having a drink on the veranda.

 

But see that won’t work. I don’t want you standing there waiting for me to putt. It gets pulled and moved from the line of vision to the hole. Then has to be put back.

[xxio]

For the guys that say it slows play.

 

For me it is like tending a flag for someone on a long putt. If someone wants it out, I pull it, step to the side then put it back in after. I would think that is at least as fast.

 

People will get used to it and the pin in/out decisions faster.

 

Pin in has sped up play in my course. This is from seeing groups finishing up on the 9th and 18th while having a drink on the veranda.

 

But see that won’t work. I don’t want you standing there waiting for me to putt. It gets pulled and moved from the line of vision to the hole. Then has to be put back.

 

Which adds 3-4 secs the 6-8xs it happens versus the overall time it saves during a round. The guy having the pin pulled will eventually realize the times when he gains an advantage. Plus players in one group are even aware when a guy has a downhiller or conversely has been wanting pin out, under the recommended pace of play guidelines we adjust who goes first.

 

Just like most anything new we don't notice the times it works, but the times it doesn't stands out.

 

I play regularly with 3 different groups, all different handicap ranges (3 til 24), some fast players-some slow ones.

 

After 2-3 rounds of adjustment, players are settling in a comfort zone.

 

All groups are faster on the greens.

 

Did it make 4.5 hour rounds (5some, walking) into 3 hours and 45min?

 

Definitely not, but on regular days we are finding we are consistently having happy hour about 10-15minutes earlier.