2019 KPMG Women's PGA Championship Jun 20 - 23

[MelloYello]

I was surprised by how much I was pulling for Hannah Green by the end of it. I'm an Ariya fan but she just didn't have it and was really out of the picture mid-way through the back 9. I was waiting for Hannah Green to make a double bogey somewhere but it just never happened.

 

I hope for Hannah's sake that this is the start of something rather than her one shining moment. Hazeltine's recent history has been somewhat of a letdown with elite players losing out to relative unknowns, the last two of which have done nothing to back up their one triumphant moment:

 

2002: Rich Beem edges out Tiger Woods

2009: Y.E. Yang defeats Tiger Woods

2019: Hannah Green hangs on over Sung Hyun Park

 

 

I also agree that the celebrations are getting a little premature. There's a slew of things that need to happen:

 

(1) Make the putt

(2) Player reaction (fist pump, big smile, Tiger roar, etc.)

(3) Hug the caddie

(4) Address playing partners

(5) Address partners' caddies

(6) Acknowledge the fans & savor the moment

(7) Have your family / friends rush out to celebrate with you

 

I don't want to sound critical but these celebrations keep getting earlier and earlier and half the time the player just gets soaked with someone pouring something directly over their head. I'm not sure that's even something the players want. There's almost a sense that this is the "mashed potatoes" of the LPGA. Somebody started it and now it won't go away!

[Argonne69]

> @agolf1 said:

> > @Argonne69 said:

> > Keep in mind that the driver swing is generally swung for maximum distance, including rollout. Irons are played to a specific distance, with as little rollout as possible.

> But this is true for everyone. I will concede that the pros have a much higher success rate in trying to get 5-10 more yards than your average golfer. Arguably, its a negative value added exercise for the average player. Most of the LPGA players are playing "somewhat modern lofts." I.e. not a 43 degree PW (some are) but probably not a more traditional 47 degree PW either. I've tried to account for that as well vs. some modern hacker sets, but don't think that's what's throwing it off.

>

 

You sure? It seems just about every bogie+ golfer I play with swings way too hard with their irons. The tempo of the pros with their irons is something to behold. I'd say they're swinging at 85%. Well, except for Lexi and Charley.

 

[legitimategolf]

> @Kaysquare said:

> Congrats to Hannah Green on a great win! Fun to see an unknown player make her first win a major. Of course she gave Kari Webb a lot of gratitude for her help along the way. Anyone else notice Webbie's "new look"? She's obviously had some "work" done & she looks great, almost unrecognizable.

 

With all due respect, stop it! I am as ghoulish and horrible as people come, I saw Karrie Webb on the tv and to me it just looks like she finally got her hair did nice, and someone showed her how to do makeup. Nothing weird or dramatic. Come on.

[Kaysquare]

> @legitimategolf said:

> > @Kaysquare said:

> > Congrats to Hannah Green on a great win! Fun to see an unknown player make her first win a major. Of course she gave Kari Webb a lot of gratitude for her help along the way. Anyone else notice Webbie's "new look"? She's obviously had some "work" done & she looks great, almost unrecognizable.

>

> With all due respect, stop it! I am as ghoulish and horrible as people come, I saw Karrie Webb on the tv and to me it just looks like she finally got her hair did nice, and someone showed her how to do makeup. Nothing weird or dramatic. Come on.

 

I noticed a very nice difference around her chin & neckline.....women of a "certain age" notice these things, take my word for it. :-)

 

[Titleist_PT23]

> @Argonne69 said:

> > @agolf1 said:

> > > @Argonne69 said:

> > > Keep in mind that the driver swing is generally swung for maximum distance, including rollout. Irons are played to a specific distance, with as little rollout as possible.

> > But this is true for everyone. I will concede that the pros have a much higher success rate in trying to get 5-10 more yards than your average golfer. Arguably, its a negative value added exercise for the average player. Most of the LPGA players are playing "somewhat modern lofts." I.e. not a 43 degree PW (some are) but probably not a more traditional 47 degree PW either. I've tried to account for that as well vs. some modern hacker sets, but don't think that's what's throwing it off.

> >

>

> You sure? It seems just about every bogie+ golfer I play with swings way too hard with their irons. The tempo of the pros with their irons is something to behold. I'd say they're swinging at 85%. Well, except for Lexi and Charley.

>

In general, it's probably true. But I'm also looking at their distances vs. mine. And most of the time I'm at 85%-90% or whatever it is (personally, I think 85% is mythical number used to illustrate the point. It may be that this much effort produces nearly the same amount of clubhead speed and much better contact resulting in basically the same distance. However, I don't think most of the pros can generate 17% more clubhead speed (1/0.85) to try for more yardage).

 

Let me try phrasing it another way. I see a lot of people driving it 250 something that seem to hit 7-iron more than 8-iron from 150. And people driving it 260+ that seem to hit 8-iron more than 9-iron. At these driver distances, I would think that they could each easily get the higher lofted club there. I have no doubt that they could if they wanted to do so, but it also doesn't seem like it would take that much work to get the higher lofted on there either. Like the 85% swing or whatever the % is. At the USWO Lucky6 hit a 5-iron (twice) that seemed to fly about 180-185. At 26 degrees, this is definitely a good whack but it doesn't seem extraodinary vs her tee ball length.

 

At the end of the day it truly doesn't matter. However, I have always been impressed with the driver distances these players generate. Even someone like Lydia where 250 off the tee includes some shots into the wind, uphill, and not struck perfectly. Ask most male amateurs how far they hit their driver and it's usually a) their best swing or b) an average of their better swings with favorable conditions. I.e. a distance you hardly see "on average."

 

I may also be de-lofting my irons at impact more than average. And I know my driver efficiency drops off more than my irons, which may be impacting my perception of things. Anyways, last time bring this up for me (have mentioned similar before) unless responding to a specific question/comment here.

[Titleist_PT23]

Slide 2 has a good breakdown of Sei Young Kim's carry distances from 2015. Her iron set at the time was a 24 degree 4-iron and a 46 degree PW. Maybe a degree or two weak vs. a lot of players cavity sets (i210 like) today.

 

I have some questions on the driver carry of 262 listed given that she averaged 263 total that year (and her high in 2016 was 273). Still, even if you reduce this a bit I would have guessed 8-iron flying 150...

 

Edit (link added):

https://www.golfdigest.com/gallery/whats-in-my-bag-sei-young-kim

[fanofseri]

Karrie has always looked good. She was tough to beat in the old days and could win without anabolic steroids.

[Argonne69]

I play a Ping G400 Max driver (10.5), and i200 irons (w/ traditional lofts). I hit my PW 135, 7i 165, and driver 250 - 260. Last time I checked my driver swing speed was 95. I think that's pretty much middle of the road for the LPGA players.

[Titleist_PT23]

> @Argonne69 said:

> I play a Ping G400 Max driver (10.5), and i200 irons (w/ traditional lofts). I hit my PW 135, 7i 165, and driver 250 - 260. Last time I checked my driver swing speed was 95. I think that's pretty much middle of the road for the LPGA players.

All seems very sensible. I just feel like I don't see a lot of 165 yard 7 irons from these same players that are 250-260 off the tee. And I'd add that the 165 at 33 degrees of weaker is pretty healthy.

[WestTex]

My 31 deg 7 is 165, and my 917 D2 driver at a stupid 7.75 deg is about 250-260. I absolutely love the loft vs carry stats for pros, please keep them coming if anyone has the info. Makes things come back to earth real quick, these ladies are insanely good.

[Titleist_PT23]

> @WestTex said:

> My 31 deg 7 is 165, and my 917 D2 driver at a stupid 7.75 deg is about 250-260. I absolutely love the loft vs carry stats for pros, please keep them coming if anyone has the info. Makes things come back to earth real quick, these ladies are insanely good.

 

Here's one from Lexi. It's quite a few years back (2013?). Lexi's lofts are stronger but when you adjust for that the distances actually seem pretty close to Sei Young Kim's distances.

https://www.golfdigest.com/gallery/photos-lexi-thompson-bag#1

[Argonne69]

> @agolf1 said:

> > @Argonne69 said:

> > I play a Ping G400 Max driver (10.5), and i200 irons (w/ traditional lofts). I hit my PW 135, 7i 165, and driver 250 - 260. Last time I checked my driver swing speed was 95. I think that's pretty much middle of the road for the LPGA players.

> All seems very sensible. I just feel like I don't see a lot of 165 yard 7 irons from these same players that are 250-260 off the tee. And I'd add that the 165 at 33 degrees of weaker is pretty healthy.

 

Funny, but I don't seem to recall the players hitting many 7 irons. The vast majority of par 3's seem to be 5 or 6 irons, and the par 4 approaches are 8 and 9i's. I see a lot of players hitting 145 yd 9 irons. Keep in mind, too, the wind and elevation changes. I'll try to keep an eye out for the yardages this weekend.

 

Also, I should note that I'm a low ball hitter, delofting my irons. My retro spec irons are actually bent 1 degree weak, so the 7i is playing at 36 degrees.

[Titleist_PT23]

> @agolf1 said:

> > @WestTex said:

> > My 31 deg 7 is 165, and my 917 D2 driver at a stupid 7.75 deg is about 250-260. I absolutely love the loft vs carry stats for pros, please keep them coming if anyone has the info. Makes things come back to earth real quick, these ladies are insanely good.

>

> Here's one from Lexi. It's quite a few years back (2013?). Lexi's lofts are stronger but when you adjust for that the distances actually seem pretty close to Sei Young Kim's distances.

> https://www.golfdigest.com/gallery/photos-lexi-thompson-bag#1

 

Two more. There's also an article with Brooke but no yardage chart.

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/gallery/whats-in-my-bag-brittany-lincicome#2

https://www.golfdigest.com/gallery/whats-in-my-bag-austin-ernst#2

 

I'm too lazy right now to look up the lofts on all the irons. But just eye-balling it they all look kind of the same. Maybe my driver is just insanely inefficient relative to theirs....

[Argonne69]

Note that the distances listed are carry yardage. Adding 10 yds for rollout wouldn't be crazy.

 

[Titleist_PT23]

> @Argonne69 said:

> Note that the distances listed are carry yardage. Adding 10 yds for rollout wouldn't be crazy.

Yeah, I'm only looking at carry for my comparisons, as the roll-out could be nothing or 10+ yards depending on the conditions and wind. Hard to do exactly when watching but you have some rough estimate of where they landed it. But I think my observation (if not wrong for some other reason) is OK at least directionally since they seem to be hitting 1 more (longer) more than not.

[AWinfortheAges]

> @"Awsi Dooger" said:

> I thought that was great. It reminded me of rooting for Pernilla to hang on last year, knowing it would likely be her one and only chance.

>

> In any sport I love the frontrunner to win, the one who did all the work throughout.

>

> Mostly I was thrilled that Ariya flopped. I respect her ball striking in person but I can't root for her to win anything. Except against Hedwall. That would be clear cut pull for Ariya. The dilemma would be only Ariya and Shan Shan in contention. What a nightmare. I hope it never plays out that way.

>

> Salas' weight is going in the wrong direction. That was always the favorite, given her frame, but I hoped she had enough discipline and common sense to delay it another half decade or so. These are the end of her prime years. Lizette wasn't a prodigy so she won't burn out as early but reasonably she can't expect much beyond her early 30s. She turns 30 in a month.

 

Lizette looks the same as she always has to me. She's been working hard on her golf fitness for the last 18 months or more from what can see online. She's never appeared to have trouble getting around the course and she looked like she could have played another 18 at the end of play this past Sunday. Maybe she'll be able to "Fight On" for many years to come.

[Argonne69]

> @AWinfortheAges said:

> > @"Awsi Dooger" said:

> > I thought that was great. It reminded me of rooting for Pernilla to hang on last year, knowing it would likely be her one and only chance.

> >

> > In any sport I love the frontrunner to win, the one who did all the work throughout.

> >

> > Mostly I was thrilled that Ariya flopped. I respect her ball striking in person but I can't root for her to win anything. Except against Hedwall. That would be clear cut pull for Ariya. The dilemma would be only Ariya and Shan Shan in contention. What a nightmare. I hope it never plays out that way.

> >

> > Salas' weight is going in the wrong direction. That was always the favorite, given her frame, but I hoped she had enough discipline and common sense to delay it another half decade or so. These are the end of her prime years. Lizette wasn't a prodigy so she won't burn out as early but reasonably she can't expect much beyond her early 30s. She turns 30 in a month.

>

> Lizette looks the same as she always has to me. She's been working hard on her golf fitness for the last 18 months or more from what can see online. She's never appeared to have trouble getting around the course and she looked like she could have played another 18 at the end of play this past Sunday. Maybe she'll be able to "Fight On" for many years to come.

 

Lizette just seems to lack that top gear on Sundays. It's like she's playing not to lose.

 

[imrede4glf]

> @18majors said:

> > @imrede4glf said:

> > I'm going with Carlota Ciganda. I'm just wondering if the producers will cover her before the final 4 holes if she's in the lead. Their coverage is horrible.

>

> Even though Golf Channel is owned by NBC Sports; each has independent production staff.

> With NBC Sports coverage, the producers who normally cover PGA Tour only have no ideas about the intricacies of LPGA stars. It led to odd choices of players presented..

> It's pitiful; but the increased exposure of network television over weekends may offset some of the pains.

>

 

Thank you

[Golf Dino]

> @Argonne69 said:

> > @AWinfortheAges said:

> > > @"Awsi Dooger" said:

> > > I thought that was great. It reminded me of rooting for Pernilla to hang on last year, knowing it would likely be her one and only chance.

> > >

> > > In any sport I love the frontrunner to win, the one who did all the work throughout.

> > >

> > > Mostly I was thrilled that Ariya flopped. I respect her ball striking in person but I can't root for her to win anything. Except against Hedwall. That would be clear cut pull for Ariya. The dilemma would be only Ariya and Shan Shan in contention. What a nightmare. I hope it never plays out that way.

> > >

> > > Salas' weight is going in the wrong direction. That was always the favorite, given her frame, but I hoped she had enough discipline and common sense to delay it another half decade or so. These are the end of her prime years. Lizette wasn't a prodigy so she won't burn out as early but reasonably she can't expect much beyond her early 30s. She turns 30 in a month.

> >

> > Lizette looks the same as she always has to me. She's been working hard on her golf fitness for the last 18 months or more from what can see online. She's never appeared to have trouble getting around the course and she looked like she could have played another 18 at the end of play this past Sunday. Maybe she'll be able to "Fight On" for many years to come.

>

> Lizette just seems to lack that top gear on Sundays. It's like she's playing not to lose.

>

_______

"Lizette just seems to lack that top gear on Sundays. It's like she's playing not to lose."

 

Well it would be understandable when one considers that players from a more modest background see the dollars in play and do their best to solidify their position on the leaderboard. It has also been said many times with the PGA Tour and their vastly larger sums that there does not seem to be such urgency to play to win when one can protect their position on the leaderboard and the subsequent purse money. It was a criticism levelled at many of the "journeymen" players. Personally, I think Lizette is very competitive -- she just has not had the rub of the green or a bounce of the ball to get her over the hurdle to win much.