How to add Width and be on Plane

[smdykas]

> @wmblake2000 said:

> 97... great call out!

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> I have been looking at athletic motion golf’s stuff and they also point to width as one of the core keys to the difference between low/high hdcp swings. They talk about the relationship between width and shoulder turn - that more width eliminates the sensation of getting the club back without full turn and thus encourages getting trail shoulder (and scapula) deeper. This is also consistent with Jim Waldron’s ideas - arm swing illusion - width is about not swinging/pinching lead arm against chest but hands raising and lowering (vs side-to-side). AMG also thinks that width plays a role in sequencing properly because there is less need for arm travel and once you get to the top, and there isn’t much time left in the swing till impact. (And AMG also proposes starting arm swing down independent of shoulder unwinding)

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> These two ideas - width and different sequencing - have increased my swing speed and smash factor.

 

Can you post these links to these videos?

[97speedster]

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[DonRSD]

> @97speedster said:

> 3 Ways you can increase distance without increasing your club head speed: Higher Launch, Lower Spin and Shallower Angle of Attack. To get a higher launch you need to get the right amount of axis tilt at address, most long drive hitter have an average of 12* of spine tilt away from the target at address. Lower spin will come from a combination of staying behind the ball and a shallow angle of attack. The closer you can come to the clubhead traveling through your right elbow halfway down on the downswing the better your spin rate will be, but you don't want to ever get the club head below your right arm or right elbow because that will get you stuck and cause you all kinds of issues. Jim Furyk has funky backswing, but he shallows the club very well. In frame 2 Furyk is ideal:

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> The two ways to shallow the club with the least amount of effort are keeping your back to the target longer (shoulders closed for longer in the transition) and keeping your head more behind the ball at impact which should be done late in the downswing, not early. If you do it early you will hang back and you don't want that. So with a driver you want to get spine tilt (12* for max distance) and you want your head at impact to be whole head width behind where it was address. So in other words at impact your left ear should be where your right ear was at address.

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> The shorter the club, the less behind the ball you should be at impact. So with say a 7 iron you should be about half a head width behind the ball only and with a wedge you would almost be in the same spot you were at address.

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Can you post a pic of where your head is at the top of the backswing? Curious to see where it is in relation to the start of the backswing and impact.....would love to see them all back to back to back.

 

One of the better posts I've read.

 

[wagolfer7]

@97speedster - What software are you using for swing analysis? Also are you using your phone to record the video? Thanks.

[97speedster]

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[97speedster]

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[wagolfer7]

> @97speedster said:

> @wagolfer7 yes, my phone with a phone caddy holder on an alignment rod...

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Thank you @97speedster

[dodger]

Question on the right elbow flexion. When I try to keep it straight in the backswing it tends to go behind me like I am pulling a lawn mower starter. I have the right angle and use it, but find that when I think right arm straight, the elbow goes way behind me at halfway to 3/4 back. Any suggestions?

[DonRSD]

> @97speedster said:

> @DonRSD here you go...

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I swear......I have always tried to get my head over the ball (at impact) until your last post......ALWAYS!!!

 

:s

[TMoakley1547]

Speedster- great thread. I was messing around with maintaining width in my backswing this weekend, and saw some pretty good results. However, it seems to have brought the heel strike in to play for me (which honestly is a good sign for me, since i have struggled with toe strikes for a while).

Did you have any problems hitting off the heel while working on this?

Thanks alot.

[97speedster]

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[97speedster]

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[gsea33]

Speed

Thought u might like a follow up. Spent time on the range (have unlimited access to balls). Widen my stance to about 19inches with the 7i. found I got just as much distance and ctrl with the wider stance but with a lot less wear and tear on the body. A smoother more tempo swing. Of course there were some mist hits I feel caused mostly by rushing and getting out of tempo. As a sidebar I experimented with different clubs. For me I found the club with the lower static weight really was better for me where as a heavier club was needed for the swing with the narrow stance.

And as always working with the glove in my new swing kept from getting too as you said deep in my swing.

So thanks again for your commitment to hack golfers.

[jc4birdie]

RA2 arrived today. Now, I get why you say set on Half, Speedster. That setting is intended for a pitch swing per the instructions, but it really makes you compact and wide. First 3 shots were absolutely awful toe shanks, but then I got used to it, and hit really good shots consistently. Does alot of things....club stays in front of you, compacts your swing, and gives you a feel for width without over swinging (which is really a contradictory statement that most don't really understand). But ironically, for me, the BEST thing it does is make me swing focused on moving the club w/ my feet and legs, ala Knudson....arms swingers will find this aide restrictive (in a good way), so you gotta use the lower body to power your move, w/ the bonus your right arm will train to a good position, naturally. Really am looking forward to working more with it.

[97speedster]

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[wmblake2000]

> @smdykas said:

> > @wmblake2000 said:

> > 97... great call out!

> >

> > I have been looking at athletic motion golf’s stuff and they also point to width as one of the core keys to the difference between low/high hdcp swings. They talk about the relationship between width and shoulder turn - that more width eliminates the sensation of getting the club back without full turn and thus encourages getting trail shoulder (and scapula) deeper. This is also consistent with Jim Waldron’s ideas - arm swing illusion - width is about not swinging/pinching lead arm against chest but hands raising and lowering (vs side-to-side). AMG also thinks that width plays a role in sequencing properly because there is less need for arm travel and once you get to the top, and there isn’t much time left in the swing till impact. (And AMG also proposes starting arm swing down independent of shoulder unwinding)

> >

> > These two ideas - width and different sequencing - have increased my swing speed and smash factor.

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> Can you post these links to these videos?

 

Most are in a subscription access basis by AMG... highly recommended, btw...

[jc4birdie]

Great and yes there is a small learning curve... if you're used to arm swinging without a full shoulder turn it’s going to feel awful until your shoulder turn and lower body sync up together with your increased should turn, but the RA2 really helps you do a lot of good things in your swing. It’s a great training aid and can also be combined with the Figure 8 training aid which I’ve used on and off a lot with it.

 

Post edited by 97speedster at Today @ 10:03am

 

I guess I always THOUGHT I was taking it away in one-piece and getting a good set into the rear heel, but RA2 exposes when you don't, that's for sure. But I'm really loving how this thing forces you to play golf w/ the insides of your feet...we all know to do that, but we too often don't. The paradox is that if you just focus on the footwork and getting started back in a connected way (triangle and in one-piece), the arms go basically where they're supposed to, and swing thru where they're supposed to; I don't have to DO anything. I just LET it happen. Just pressure shift and rotation, and then shift and rotate thru. Pure Knudson, with width.

[97speedster]

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[GungHoGolf]

[MK7Golf21]

> @97speedster said:

> Here are some still images from back in 2000 when Tiger won the British Open by 8 shots and the US Open by 15 shots. Why he changed his swing after this is a complete mystery to me. He was out in Las Vegas a lot at the same time I was back then and witnessing him practice in person was like watching Picasso paint a painting.

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> This is a split screen of Tiger on the left and me on the right back in 2000...

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> Here is the same swing of me on the left from February 2000 compared with a swing of Tiger (never published) during the practice round of the 2000 British Open... obviously this was split screened later in the year after when he won the British Open in the summer of 2000...

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> Here is one of just me showing the position of the right elbow in line with the right heel and the position of the left arm plane at the the top of the backswing that Butch wants his players in....

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that's pretty cool, who gave you those lessons? Tiger has a bit more depth with the butt end of the club, which prob made his swing a bit more easier to do.

[Milkers]

Thanks for sharing, more Tiger 2000 stories please! What a swing that was.

[jgonz69]

97speedster, thanks for this thread. I am reminded of how good the instructors are at the Harmon school. Took many lessons from Greg LaBelle years back, and struck the ball as well as I ever have.

Also reading thru the post made me go back and break out my right angle 2 and medicine ball with the handles and work on what you were talking about.

So after a couple of sessions with both, I had two really good ball striking rounds in Mesquite this week.

Gonna keep working on this as it feels awkward due to me letting my swing get too long, but the results speak for themselves.

Thanks again for the awesome thread!

[97speedster]

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[97speedster]

Here are some still images from back in 2000 when Tiger won the British Open by 8 shots and the US Open by 15 shots. Why he changed his swing after this is a complete mystery to me. He was out in Las Vegas a lot at the same time I was back then and witnessing him practice in person was like watching Picasso paint a painting.

 

This is a split screen of Tiger on the left and me on the right back in 2000...

 

 

Here is the same swing of me on the left from February 2000 compared with a swing of Tiger (never published) during the practice round of the 2000 British Open... obviously this was split screened later in the year after when he won the British Open in the summer of 2000...

 

 

Here is one of just me showing the position of the right elbow in line with the right heel and the position of the left arm plane at the the top of the backswing that Butch wants his players in....

 

[jgonz69]

You live in Vegas?

[97speedster]

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[buckeyefl]

> @97speedster said:

> Here are some still images from back in 2000 when Tiger won the British Open by 8 shots and the US Open by 15 shots. Why he changed his swing after this is a complete mystery to me. He was out in Las Vegas a lot at the same time I was back then and witnessing him practice in person was like watching Picasso paint a painting.

>

> This is a split screen of Tiger on the left and me on the right back in 2000...

>

>

>

> Here is the same swing of me on the left from February 2000 compared with a swing of Tiger (never published) during the practice round of the 2000 British Open... obviously this was split screened later in the year after when he won the British Open in the summer of 2000...

>

>

>

> Here is one of just me showing the position of the right elbow in line with the right heel and the position of the left arm plane at the the top of the backswing that Butch wants his players in....

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That was the time period I was around him too and the Picasso comment is dead on. Watching him play and practice was a privilege.The things he could do back then were incredible.

[Fireballer]

Im kinda late to this thread...but the takeaways are the importance of a full turn to keep trail elbow from flexing too much?

[Oriolesfan138]

Nice. I would love just to see video of Tiger practicing back then. There are a few out there and it’s just pure beauty watching him swing.

[Golfbeat]

Just a big Thank You to Speedster. What a great contribution. Width both in the back swing and in the down swing makes all the difference. The feeling of straight arms back and through (iTeach) makes so much sense. I just need to remind myself that the arms structure needs an active push away. Also, I remembered this morning on the range a crucial comment of iTeach of many years ago: you cannot straighten the right arm soon enough in the down swing. For me, I need to feel that this straightening initially takes place **away** from the target and good speed and great contact is the result.