Solo trip to St Andrews - 2020

[philsRHman]

I’m starting to scheme for a solo trip to Scotland in 2020. I did the same to Bandon this year and keeping a running thread on GolfWRX added to the experience both during planning and while I was there and once home. It was like bringing along the friends I obviously don’t have in real life lol (all my golf friends are more into Myrtle Beach or Vegas, where golf is an excuse for the trip, not the sole reason).

 

I’m looking at late April 2020 trip, after reading how quiet SA is when the rates jump. Would look to fly out of NYC Friday and return Sunday, which leaves 8 days for golf.

 

I’ve still got a lot of research to do but I’m golf history nut (have read a bunch, including Tommy’s Honor, George Peper’s 2 Years at St Andrews, DMK’s book about Castle) and I’m a relatively newbie architecture geek (dove in head-first before Bandon and loved Old Mac so much). So, St Andrews will def be my home base and I know I get so much out of a second or third round on a course (esp one with a lot of architectural nuance), so I might buck the trend and focus on playing fewer courses but multiple times and then filling in the gaps.

 

I’m fascinated by North Berwick so looking at the map, might start or end the trip with an overnight there (maybe 36 at NB and 18 at Gullane?). For some reason I have little to no interest in Muirfield (and my early sketch doesn’t have me there on a Tue or Thur). Complication is that Saturdays and Sundays have limited access.

 

In St Andrews I’m thinking just going TOC twice off the bat, especially if it’s as accessible as it sounds. From there I’m thinking of making the SA rounds at New, Castle, etc.

 

Now, as I write this out I realize 8 days of golf is a LOT of golf. But I really want to get the feel of St Andrews and don’t want to golf myself to death or drive all over the country. I’m a huge fan of Tom Coyne’s writing and even with all the golf, it’s the character of the places he experiences that make them special (I also learned in Bandon that going overboard early made for some miserable days with a sore back). A few other things on my list: fish and chips at Anshruther and hit that course. Also sounds like a few of the local courses. Depending on budget, maybe get the 3-day and play the crap out of them, or just make sure to play the New and Castle which are my priority there. For some reason I don’t have a lot of interest in either Kingsbarns or Carnoustie. I would have time for either but would prefer a local gem or two, but definitely open to advice on that.

 

A very very rough draft of an itinerary:

Saturday (arrival): afternoon round in east Lothian tbd (Gullane 1 not available, maybe a nice easy warm up course)

Sunday: North Berwick (early afternoon earliest available time but sunset is 830 so maybe I can get in 36)

Monday: North Berwick 18 or 36 depending on Sunday; drive to St Andrews

Tuesday: old course morning, explore SA afternoon

Wednesday: old course morning, Anstruther lunch and afternoon round

Thursday: 36 tbd (New and Castle?)

Friday: 36 tbd

Saturday: New/Castle and tbd (or try for TOC again to close?)

Sunday: fly home (sad face)

 

I’ll keep this thread updated as I piece things together. If anyone’s got an opinion on timing as a single I’d love to hear. Id prefer to go in the spring as it sets me up for a nice season at home. Alternatively I could do fall, especially since my birthday is in September if weather is significantly better and courses are still accessible. Also, any red flags? I’m thinking of renting a car but would I even need it once I’m back from NB? I really don’t want to mess with trains and buses but open to suggestions. Like I said, very early in my planning, and will research it all, so no need to remind me about the search function lol

 

Thanks for indulging me and appreciate and thoughts or feedback.

[tiderider]

would replace a St Andrews course with Crail ... i'm sure they're all fine courses (i've only played the new), but i don't think you need to play all of them ... i'd really try to play carnoustie ... it's an hour's drive (time wise, not distance) at most, but it's a very good course with a lot of history ... you don't need a car to get to st andrews or around it ... if you play anything outside of st andrews, you'd have to have a taxi ... if you don't plan to leave st andrews after nb, then it's doable without a car ... could get a taxi to take you each day to the links ... spring or fall depends on what the lottery returns for TOC ...

[El Gringo]

The same things I say to everybody:

 

If you want to explore, 36 a day doesn't work.

 

**If in Fife, schedule Elie.** Its an easy get on the way from North Berwick.

 

Consider playing Kilspindie on your first day if possible. If not, maybe Gullane 3 or Mussleburgh Old (to satisfy your history bug). All will be quickish rounds which ease you into the holiday.

 

Ciao

[jas904]

Second vote for Elie, especially if you like “traditional” Scottish courses. One other suggestion, replace Castle with Jubilee. Castle is horrible IMO. Others love it for the views (which I concede are spectacular) but the golf course itself is not memorable and the greens are too “ modern” with hellacious break.

[2bGood]

Castle is easy to pass on. The only reason to play it, is you have some time on your hands and you already have a St Andrews pass. Jubilee is a much better choice.

 

Kingsbarns is one of my favourite golf courses in the world and I have an impressive list of courses played. Of course, weather, how well I played and who I played with all factor in - but I think it is worth playing.

 

If you are walking on a single during the time span you should need to pre-book anything at St Andrews. I am not even sure you can as a single. As you know I did a similar trip and was able to just walk up when I wanted to play and get out right away on all courses except the OC (and every the cold course I walked up and got the first time of the day - albeit showing up way earlier than I needed too)

 

Keep in mind though you are very likely to get an OC time based on my experience, it is going to be where ever they have a gap. It could be 1pm or 10:30 or 7:30 or whatever, so you want to stay flexible Try for a time each morning and once you know when it is, then plan the rest of the day around it.

 

My plan when I was there was to try for the OC each day until I got it, It happened on day one, but if it had not I would have kept trying as playing the other rounds were secondary.

[philsRHman]

Thanks for all the input, much appreciated. Any opinions of time of year would be helpful. I know 2bgood is the April champion. Since I’m always a fan of trading something for weather (sometimes lower rates but in this case, potentially worse weather) I’m not looking to go at peak time (plus it’s harder to pull off at home in summer). Given the Scottish weather can be crap any time of year, it seems like a fair trade off.

 

Will definitely dig in more on courses as I get more firm plans. Musselburgh struck me as a familiar name so I thought that might be a heck of a way to kick off the week. Castle is intriguing since I read the book and have heard more positive reviews of late. I think the two I could end up kicking myself over are KB and Carnoustie. In addition to being a real kick in the wallet, I guess they don’t quite fit the somewhat under the radar vibe I’m going for. That said, I’ll probably end up adding both. Fornanyone who has played KB and in Bandon, how do they compare? I guess my feeling is do I want to spend $350-400 for a modern course when i can add another hidden gem for a fraction or hell, even an absurd 3rd or 4th or even 5th round on TOC.

[philsRHman]

Also trying to wrap my head around flight prices. From Newark direct, I’m seeing 850-1050. It’s like Vegas when I can tell I’m at the bottom of the market at a certain fare. Would hate to buy at 900 if it’ll drop to 650, although if 800 is the lowest I won’t sweat a hundred bucks. But would also hate to miss 900 and end up spending 1250.

[SCalGolfer]

Phil,

Props to you for doing the trip. I did the same thing over 10 years ago. It's different going by yourself, but I totally get it, it's hard to get friends to spend on this kind of trip. I went in early October. The weather was so-so. The biggest thing is having enough daylight over there. In the summer there's plenty but it's dark in the winter. I used Alan Ferguson's book to plan.

 

My itinerary was:

 

- Fly Edinburgh - drive to Dornoch, play 18 - really cool course and vibe up there. Long drive.

- Dornoch 18, drive to Carnoustie and walk course. It was too windy to play at Carnoustie!

- Old course, wait at 5:30AM as single, new course in afternoon; you're going to love it!

- Elie - fun course

- Muirfield - was set up far in advance. Awesome club. Need jacket and tie if playing there

- North Berwick - Brush up on your study of architecture before playing there - redan, biarritz. Really fun course

- Fly home

 

I did this all without a cell phone or GPS. All lodging was booked in person. The B&Bs are great over there btw. The breakfast will fill you up. You don't have to drive as far as I did. I wanted to play Royal Dornoch. For me it was worth it, but you may not want the windshield time. People are great there. I love how the game is treated. You don't have to be rich to be a member over there. The plumber and the lawyer are members of the same club. People play fast over there, it's great! You will meet friends on the course and in the bar. I am far from an authority but if you have any questions let me know. You will not regret the trip. You can always go again with friends or family. Good luck!

[duffer987]

> @philsRHman said:

> Thanks for all the input, much appreciated. Any opinions of time of year would be helpful. I know 2bgood is the April champion. Since I’m always a fan of trading something for weather (sometimes lower rates but in this case, potentially worse weather) I’m not looking to go at peak time (plus it’s harder to pull off at home in summer). Given the Scottish weather can be crap any time of year, it seems like a fair trade off.

>

> Will definitely dig in more on courses as I get more firm plans. Musselburgh struck me as a familiar name so I thought that might be a heck of a way to kick off the week. Castle is intriguing since I read the book and have heard more positive reviews of late. I think the two I could end up kicking myself over are KB and Carnoustie. In addition to being a real kick in the wallet, I guess they don’t quite fit the somewhat under the radar vibe I’m going for. That said, I’ll probably end up adding both. Fornanyone who has played KB and in Bandon, how do they compare? I guess my feeling is do I want to spend $350-400 for a modern course when i can add another hidden gem for a fraction or ****, even an absurd 3rd or 4th or even 5th round on TOC.

 

If you're using St. Andrews as a base, "under the radar" is already out the window: for a first time/maybe last time one week trip, embrace the marquee names and skip Castle Course for Elie, Crail, Leven, Lundin, etc... And get there earlier than 5:30 for TOC and/or use ballot buddy.

 

KB is similarish to Bandon and after two plays I don't have any desire to go back, but our group of 6 all really enjoyed the day, and 1 had it as his fave of the trip. If it's picking between KB and Carnoustie, then I'd definitely say Carnoustie, but stuff it - play both :-)

 

Time wise May/first half of June and Sept are my preferred times. Lots of light, school hols haven't started yet or have ended, and courses have had more time to recover from any potential bad winters.

[Mignuz]

I agree on playing TOC twice, but don't focus on St. Andrews courses that much.

Play once the Jubilee (best course IMHO) and the new (I didn't like it that much but everyone likes it).

I enjoyed the castle but maybe it's not worth the money, I enjoyed more the Kittocks course which is just next the castle course and I payed only a 35 £ fee using www.teeofftimes.co.uk.

Another vote for Elie course, then consider to play Lundin or leven, Crail and, of course, Carnoustie.

Kingsbarns is really near, very expansive but it's an artificial links in an american style, a lot of people love it but most of all wouldn't play it again.

There are a lot of other hidden gems courses in the area which are cheap and true links.

If you want, in an hour drive you can play gleanegles (ryder cup course or the king's).

[Mignuz]

As for the period, I've been there in late april and in late june.

Of course in june was better, but in april was really good too.

Weather there in unpredictable.

In april I woke up one morning and it snowed. 2 hours later I was playing the castle course.

On the first tee of TOC it was hailing, but it lasted 3 minutes...leaving a 35 knots wind for the rest of the day.

Played every day with my heavy winter gear.

In june I still played with my "light winter" gear, except for one day when I played in T-shirt. Locals were in T-shirt everyday, anyway.

My caddie on TOC said that the best period to play there is late september/first october, but there's less light, still good for 36 holes though.

 

[imakaveli]

I wouldn't bother playing the Castle, it's a modern clifftop course with great views but not a lot more. Perfect 36 would be New and Jubilee (imho)

[jvincent]

> @philsRHman said:

> For anyone who has played KB and in Bandon, how do they compare? I guess my feeling is do I want to spend $350-400 for a modern course when i can add another hidden gem for a fraction or ****, even an absurd 3rd or 4th or even 5th round on TOC.

 

Kingsbarns is very similar to Bandon. It was a very nice course, but in reality a little over priced.

 

As others have mentioned, definitely go for Crail. Old school Scottish links golf. And I'd also recommend going to Carnoustie. Play the Championship in the AM, grab lunch at the club (which is across the street) and then play the Buddon or Burnside courses.

 

 

[Hawkeye77]

36 a day will get you a lot of golf, but will leave precious little time for anything else if getting any feel for the area or seeing much is part of the equation.

[Superbrit]

If you get bored of links courses and fancy trying something different try the Dukes course in St Andrews, its definitely worth a visit, and doesnt get many mentions, and if you book it through Teeofftimes its quite cheap, clubhouse is really nice as well and is usually quite quiet

[tiderider]

> @SCalGolfer said:

> Phil,

> Props to you for doing the trip. I did the same thing over 10 years ago. It's different going by yourself, but I totally get it, it's hard to get friends to spend on this kind of trip. I went in early October. The weather was so-so. The biggest thing is having enough daylight over there. In the summer there's plenty but it's dark in the winter. I used Alan Ferguson's book to plan.

>

> My itinerary was:

>

> - Fly Edinburgh - drive to Dornoch, play 18 - really cool course and vibe up there. Long drive.

> - Dornoch 18, drive to Carnoustie and walk course. It was too windy to play at Carnoustie!

> - Old course, wait at 5:30AM as single, new course in afternoon; you're going to love it!

> - Elie - fun course

> - Muirfield - was set up far in advance. Awesome club. Need jacket and tie if playing there

> - North Berwick - Brush up on your study of architecture before playing there - redan, biarritz. Really fun course

> - Fly home

>

> I did this all without a cell phone or GPS. All lodging was booked in person. The B&Bs are great over there btw. The breakfast will fill you up. You don't have to drive as far as I did. I wanted to play Royal Dornoch. For me it was worth it, but you may not want the windshield time. People are great there. I love how the game is treated. You don't have to be rich to be a member over there. The plumber and the lawyer are members of the same club. People play fast over there, it's great! You will meet friends on the course and in the bar. I am far from an authority but if you have any questions let me know. You will not regret the trip. You can always go again with friends or family. Good luck!

 

you don't need a jacket/tie if at muirfield ... only if you're eating lunch with them ...

[tiderider]

> @philsRHman said:

> Thanks for all the input, much appreciated. Any opinions of time of year would be helpful. I know 2bgood is the April champion. Since I’m always a fan of trading something for weather (sometimes lower rates but in this case, potentially worse weather) I’m not looking to go at peak time (plus it’s harder to pull off at home in summer). Given the Scottish weather can be crap any time of year, it seems like a fair trade off.

>

> Will definitely dig in more on courses as I get more firm plans. Musselburgh struck me as a familiar name so I thought that might be a heck of a way to kick off the week. Castle is intriguing since I read the book and have heard more positive reviews of late. I think the two I could end up kicking myself over are KB and Carnoustie. In addition to being a real kick in the wallet, I guess they don’t quite fit the somewhat under the radar vibe I’m going for. That said, I’ll probably end up adding both. Fornanyone who has played KB and in Bandon, how do they compare? I guess my feeling is do I want to spend $350-400 for a modern course when i can add another hidden gem for a fraction or ****, even an absurd 3rd or 4th or even 5th round on TOC.

 

you could play Whistling Straits and get the same experience as KB ... it's a very, very good course, with great conditions, but does not offer a true links experience (i'd say "imo", but i just don't see how anyone can argue otherwise as to the links experience) ... i've played Lundin Links and 2nd the opinion it is a course worth considering (short drive) ...

 

would imagine a $900 airfare out of nyc to edin is about the best value you can get without getting lucky on the timing or using some type of cc miles program, though united does have one that works very well for that trip ... if i saw one at $800 i'd take it in a heartbeat ... there is a lot to be said for playing TOC several times on one trip ... it is a ton of fun and a fantastic way to play golf ... the design and some of the holes are unique, even for links golf, and are simply a blast to play, not just from a "strategy" standpoint but from a "do I have this shot" standpoint, so if you skipped anything to have another go at TOC, it's not the worst idea ... you will remember more holes at TOC than at KB, i can assure of that, however ... Carnoustie is simply a tough course that you play to have a score on and compare to the pros so that you can chime in on "would an average golfer break 100?" thread ... again, you're an hour away ...

[SCalGolfer]

> @tiderider said:

> > @SCalGolfer said:

> > Phil,

> > Props to you for doing the trip. I did the same thing over 10 years ago. It's different going by yourself, but I totally get it, it's hard to get friends to spend on this kind of trip. I went in early October. The weather was so-so. The biggest thing is having enough daylight over there. In the summer there's plenty but it's dark in the winter. I used Alan Ferguson's book to plan.

> >

> > My itinerary was:

> >

> > - Fly Edinburgh - drive to Dornoch, play 18 - really cool course and vibe up there. Long drive.

> > - Dornoch 18, drive to Carnoustie and walk course. It was too windy to play at Carnoustie!

> > - Old course, wait at 5:30AM as single, new course in afternoon; you're going to love it!

> > - Elie - fun course

> > - Muirfield - was set up far in advance. Awesome club. Need jacket and tie if playing there

> > - North Berwick - Brush up on your study of architecture before playing there - redan, biarritz. Really fun course

> > - Fly home

> >

> > I did this all without a cell phone or GPS. All lodging was booked in person. The B&Bs are great over there btw. The breakfast will fill you up. You don't have to drive as far as I did. I wanted to play Royal Dornoch. For me it was worth it, but you may not want the windshield time. People are great there. I love how the game is treated. You don't have to be rich to be a member over there. The plumber and the lawyer are members of the same club. People play fast over there, it's great! You will meet friends on the course and in the bar. I am far from an authority but if you have any questions let me know. You will not regret the trip. You can always go again with friends or family. Good luck!

>

> you don't need a jacket/tie if at muirfield ... only if you're eating lunch with them ...

 

If you're not eating lunch and playing 36 you're not doing it right! :)

 

[SCalGolfer]

> @tiderider said:

> > @philsRHman said:

> > Thanks for all the input, much appreciated. Any opinions of time of year would be helpful. I know 2bgood is the April champion. Since I’m always a fan of trading something for weather (sometimes lower rates but in this case, potentially worse weather) I’m not looking to go at peak time (plus it’s harder to pull off at home in summer). Given the Scottish weather can be crap any time of year, it seems like a fair trade off.

> >

> > Will definitely dig in more on courses as I get more firm plans. Musselburgh struck me as a familiar name so I thought that might be a heck of a way to kick off the week. Castle is intriguing since I read the book and have heard more positive reviews of late. I think the two I could end up kicking myself over are KB and Carnoustie. In addition to being a real kick in the wallet, I guess they don’t quite fit the somewhat under the radar vibe I’m going for. That said, I’ll probably end up adding both. Fornanyone who has played KB and in Bandon, how do they compare? I guess my feeling is do I want to spend $350-400 for a modern course when i can add another hidden gem for a fraction or ****, even an absurd 3rd or 4th or even 5th round on TOC.

>

> you could play Whistling Straits and get the same experience as KB ... it's a very, very good course, with great conditions, but does not offer a true links experience (i'd say "imo", but i just don't see how anyone can argue otherwise as to the links experience) ... i've played Lundin Links and 2nd the opinion it is a course worth considering (short drive) ...

>

> would imagine a $900 airfare out of nyc to edin is about the best value you can get without getting lucky on the timing or using some type of cc miles program, though united does have one that works very well for that trip ... if i saw one at $800 i'd take it in a heartbeat ... there is a lot to be said for playing TOC several times on one trip ... it is a ton of fun and a fantastic way to play golf ... the design and some of the holes are unique, even for links golf, and are simply a blast to play, not just from a "strategy" standpoint but from a "do I have this shot" standpoint, so if you skipped anything to have another go at TOC, it's not the worst idea ... you will remember more holes at TOC than at KB, i can assure of that, however ... Carnoustie is simply a tough course that you play to have a score on and compare to the pros so that you can chime in on "would an average golfer break 100?" thread ... again, you're an hour away ...

 

I agree with Tide. No reason to spend the big bucks to play KB. Play an authentic Scottish course and save some coin. There are plenty to choose from.

[philsRHman]

Has anyone taken an April trip? I know the idea is hit the week the rates rose, which in 2020 is April 20. But looks like a week later the flights are cheaper by 300+. Alternatively I could leave Thursday instead of Friday and recalling frickin’ go for it! Lol, my wife my murder me if I try to take a 10-day golf trip and leave her home with our son.

[duffer987]

> @SCalGolfer said:

> > @tiderider said:

> > > @philsRHman said:

> > > Thanks for all the input, much appreciated. Any opinions of time of year would be helpful. I know 2bgood is the April champion. Since I’m always a fan of trading something for weather (sometimes lower rates but in this case, potentially worse weather) I’m not looking to go at peak time (plus it’s harder to pull off at home in summer). Given the Scottish weather can be crap any time of year, it seems like a fair trade off.

> > >

> > > Will definitely dig in more on courses as I get more firm plans. Musselburgh struck me as a familiar name so I thought that might be a heck of a way to kick off the week. Castle is intriguing since I read the book and have heard more positive reviews of late. I think the two I could end up kicking myself over are KB and Carnoustie. In addition to being a real kick in the wallet, I guess they don’t quite fit the somewhat under the radar vibe I’m going for. That said, I’ll probably end up adding both. Fornanyone who has played KB and in Bandon, how do they compare? I guess my feeling is do I want to spend $350-400 for a modern course when i can add another hidden gem for a fraction or ****, even an absurd 3rd or 4th or even 5th round on TOC.

> >

> > you could play Whistling Straits and get the same experience as KB ... it's a very, very good course, with great conditions, but does not offer a true links experience (i'd say "imo", but i just don't see how anyone can argue otherwise as to the links experience) ... i've played Lundin Links and 2nd the opinion it is a course worth considering (short drive) ...

> >

> > would imagine a $900 airfare out of nyc to edin is about the best value you can get without getting lucky on the timing or using some type of cc miles program, though united does have one that works very well for that trip ... if i saw one at $800 i'd take it in a heartbeat ... there is a lot to be said for playing TOC several times on one trip ... it is a ton of fun and a fantastic way to play golf ... the design and some of the holes are unique, even for links golf, and are simply a blast to play, not just from a "strategy" standpoint but from a "do I have this shot" standpoint, so if you skipped anything to have another go at TOC, it's not the worst idea ... you will remember more holes at TOC than at KB, i can assure of that, however ... Carnoustie is simply a tough course that you play to have a score on and compare to the pros so that you can chime in on "would an average golfer break 100?" thread ... again, you're an hour away ...

>

> I agree with Tide. No reason to spend the big bucks to play KB. Play an authentic Scottish course and save some coin. There are plenty to choose from.

 

What was it specifically you didn't enjoy about your experience playing Kingsbarns; as it is in Fife, which is in Scotland, which makes it an authentic Scottish course. Now had it been in Fife, Washington, then fair point on authenticity.

[duffer987]

> @philsRHman said:

> Has anyone taken an April trip? I know the idea is hit the week the rates rose, which in 2020 is April 20. But looks like a week later the flights are cheaper by 300+. Alternatively I could leave Thursday instead of Friday and recalling frickin’ go for it! Lol, my wife my murder me if I try to take a 10-day golf trip and leave her home with our son.

 

Which rates are you taking about? St. Andrews Trust? Courses will go to peak season rates are various times in April/May

For instance Carnoustie is 70 quid cheaper if you play before mid May, whereas North Berwick switches start of April.

My personal feeling is once you commit to going, you go and it costs what it costs. I don't mean p i s s i n g money away left and right, but choosing sometime between April and Oct is more about your own preference on when you'd like to take a break in regards to work and family, in addition to avoiding peak season crowds.

[philsRHman]

I wasn’t thinking about it for saving a few bucks on the golf. I just prefer to go on a week that’s quiet and I understand the week the Links Trust prices jump, it’s very quiet as anyone who would be there that week would have slide up a week to save some dough. I’m thinking the opposite, if I delay a week or two is it still quite as quiet the first week or two in may.

[SCalGolfer]

> @duffer987 said:

> > @SCalGolfer said:

> > > @tiderider said:

> > > > @philsRHman said:

> > > > Thanks for all the input, much appreciated. Any opinions of time of year would be helpful. I know 2bgood is the April champion. Since I’m always a fan of trading something for weather (sometimes lower rates but in this case, potentially worse weather) I’m not looking to go at peak time (plus it’s harder to pull off at home in summer). Given the Scottish weather can be crap any time of year, it seems like a fair trade off.

> > > >

> > > > Will definitely dig in more on courses as I get more firm plans. Musselburgh struck me as a familiar name so I thought that might be a heck of a way to kick off the week. Castle is intriguing since I read the book and have heard more positive reviews of late. I think the two I could end up kicking myself over are KB and Carnoustie. In addition to being a real kick in the wallet, I guess they don’t quite fit the somewhat under the radar vibe I’m going for. That said, I’ll probably end up adding both. Fornanyone who has played KB and in Bandon, how do they compare? I guess my feeling is do I want to spend $350-400 for a modern course when i can add another hidden gem for a fraction or ****, even an absurd 3rd or 4th or even 5th round on TOC.

> > >

> > > you could play Whistling Straits and get the same experience as KB ... it's a very, very good course, with great conditions, but does not offer a true links experience (i'd say "imo", but i just don't see how anyone can argue otherwise as to the links experience) ... i've played Lundin Links and 2nd the opinion it is a course worth considering (short drive) ...

> > >

> > > would imagine a $900 airfare out of nyc to edin is about the best value you can get without getting lucky on the timing or using some type of cc miles program, though united does have one that works very well for that trip ... if i saw one at $800 i'd take it in a heartbeat ... there is a lot to be said for playing TOC several times on one trip ... it is a ton of fun and a fantastic way to play golf ... the design and some of the holes are unique, even for links golf, and are simply a blast to play, not just from a "strategy" standpoint but from a "do I have this shot" standpoint, so if you skipped anything to have another go at TOC, it's not the worst idea ... you will remember more holes at TOC than at KB, i can assure of that, however ... Carnoustie is simply a tough course that you play to have a score on and compare to the pros so that you can chime in on "would an average golfer break 100?" thread ... again, you're an hour away ...

> >

> > I agree with Tide. No reason to spend the big bucks to play KB. Play an authentic Scottish course and save some coin. There are plenty to choose from.

>

> What was it specifically you didn't enjoy about your experience playing Kingsbarns; as it is in Fife, which is in Scotland, which makes it an authentic Scottish course. Now had it been in Fife, Washington, then fair point on authenticity.

 

I'm not even going to go there because KB is an excellent course, it's just if I'm going to Scotland I'm going to play a classic links that is not owned by an American. That's just me. Nothing is wrong with the course. I also would not pay the high greens fee again. For a 50 pound guest fee I would be in.

[jvincent]

> @philsRHman said:

> Has anyone taken an April trip? I know the idea is hit the week the rates rose, which in 2020 is April 20. But looks like a week later the flights are cheaper by 300+. Alternatively I could leave Thursday instead of Friday and recalling frickin’ go for it! Lol, my wife my murder me if I try to take a 10-day golf trip and leave her home with our son.

 

We were there the last week of April 2017. The weather was perfect for the entire week and it wasn't crowded at all.

 

Of course the weather is hit and miss any time you go so bring all the gear.

[duffer987]

> @SCalGolfer said:

> > @duffer987 said:

> > > @SCalGolfer said:

> > > > @tiderider said:

> > > > > @philsRHman said:

> > > > > Thanks for all the input, much appreciated. Any opinions of time of year would be helpful. I know 2bgood is the April champion. Since I’m always a fan of trading something for weather (sometimes lower rates but in this case, potentially worse weather) I’m not looking to go at peak time (plus it’s harder to pull off at home in summer). Given the Scottish weather can be crap any time of year, it seems like a fair trade off.

> > > > >

> > > > > Will definitely dig in more on courses as I get more firm plans. Musselburgh struck me as a familiar name so I thought that might be a heck of a way to kick off the week. Castle is intriguing since I read the book and have heard more positive reviews of late. I think the two I could end up kicking myself over are KB and Carnoustie. In addition to being a real kick in the wallet, I guess they don’t quite fit the somewhat under the radar vibe I’m going for. That said, I’ll probably end up adding both. Fornanyone who has played KB and in Bandon, how do they compare? I guess my feeling is do I want to spend $350-400 for a modern course when i can add another hidden gem for a fraction or ****, even an absurd 3rd or 4th or even 5th round on TOC.

> > > >

> > > > you could play Whistling Straits and get the same experience as KB ... it's a very, very good course, with great conditions, but does not offer a true links experience (i'd say "imo", but i just don't see how anyone can argue otherwise as to the links experience) ... i've played Lundin Links and 2nd the opinion it is a course worth considering (short drive) ...

> > > >

> > > > would imagine a $900 airfare out of nyc to edin is about the best value you can get without getting lucky on the timing or using some type of cc miles program, though united does have one that works very well for that trip ... if i saw one at $800 i'd take it in a heartbeat ... there is a lot to be said for playing TOC several times on one trip ... it is a ton of fun and a fantastic way to play golf ... the design and some of the holes are unique, even for links golf, and are simply a blast to play, not just from a "strategy" standpoint but from a "do I have this shot" standpoint, so if you skipped anything to have another go at TOC, it's not the worst idea ... you will remember more holes at TOC than at KB, i can assure of that, however ... Carnoustie is simply a tough course that you play to have a score on and compare to the pros so that you can chime in on "would an average golfer break 100?" thread ... again, you're an hour away ...

> > >

> > > I agree with Tide. No reason to spend the big bucks to play KB. Play an authentic Scottish course and save some coin. There are plenty to choose from.

> >

> > What was it specifically you didn't enjoy about your experience playing Kingsbarns; as it is in Fife, which is in Scotland, which makes it an authentic Scottish course. Now had it been in Fife, Washington, then fair point on authenticity.

>

> I'm not even going to go there because KB is an excellent course, it's just if I'm going to Scotland I'm going to play a classic links that is not owned by an American. That's just me. Nothing is wrong with the course. I also would not pay the high greens fee again. For a 50 pound guest fee I would be in.

 

I don't disagree it's a lot of money and after having a 36 hole day there, I'm not returning anytime soon; however, to say it's not 'authentic' is silly. It plays firm, as you'd expect a seaside course in Scotland to do and while the higher ground may not have started out as linksland, the bottom certainly was. Just because it's modern doesn't make it a bad choice for a 7 or 8 round week, a poorly executed modern course - like the one down the road towards town - makes a course a bad choice.

 

There is also the overlooked benefit of it being a resort course that offers up morning weekend teetimes, which when you are trying to max out your golfing is useful.

That Sat morning round at KB might otherwise be a lie in, waiting for your afternoon round or having to loop one of the 'lesser' Trust courses in town.

[SCalGolfer]

> @duffer987 said:

> > @SCalGolfer said:

> > > @duffer987 said:

> > > > @SCalGolfer said:

> > > > > @tiderider said:

> > > > > > @philsRHman said:

> > > > > > Thanks for all the input, much appreciated. Any opinions of time of year would be helpful. I know 2bgood is the April champion. Since I’m always a fan of trading something for weather (sometimes lower rates but in this case, potentially worse weather) I’m not looking to go at peak time (plus it’s harder to pull off at home in summer). Given the Scottish weather can be crap any time of year, it seems like a fair trade off.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Will definitely dig in more on courses as I get more firm plans. Musselburgh struck me as a familiar name so I thought that might be a heck of a way to kick off the week. Castle is intriguing since I read the book and have heard more positive reviews of late. I think the two I could end up kicking myself over are KB and Carnoustie. In addition to being a real kick in the wallet, I guess they don’t quite fit the somewhat under the radar vibe I’m going for. That said, I’ll probably end up adding both. Fornanyone who has played KB and in Bandon, how do they compare? I guess my feeling is do I want to spend $350-400 for a modern course when i can add another hidden gem for a fraction or ****, even an absurd 3rd or 4th or even 5th round on TOC.

> > > > >

> > > > > you could play Whistling Straits and get the same experience as KB ... it's a very, very good course, with great conditions, but does not offer a true links experience (i'd say "imo", but i just don't see how anyone can argue otherwise as to the links experience) ... i've played Lundin Links and 2nd the opinion it is a course worth considering (short drive) ...

> > > > >

> > > > > would imagine a $900 airfare out of nyc to edin is about the best value you can get without getting lucky on the timing or using some type of cc miles program, though united does have one that works very well for that trip ... if i saw one at $800 i'd take it in a heartbeat ... there is a lot to be said for playing TOC several times on one trip ... it is a ton of fun and a fantastic way to play golf ... the design and some of the holes are unique, even for links golf, and are simply a blast to play, not just from a "strategy" standpoint but from a "do I have this shot" standpoint, so if you skipped anything to have another go at TOC, it's not the worst idea ... you will remember more holes at TOC than at KB, i can assure of that, however ... Carnoustie is simply a tough course that you play to have a score on and compare to the pros so that you can chime in on "would an average golfer break 100?" thread ... again, you're an hour away ...

> > > >

> > > > I agree with Tide. No reason to spend the big bucks to play KB. Play an authentic Scottish course and save some coin. There are plenty to choose from.

> > >

> > > What was it specifically you didn't enjoy about your experience playing Kingsbarns; as it is in Fife, which is in Scotland, which makes it an authentic Scottish course. Now had it been in Fife, Washington, then fair point on authenticity.

> >

> > I'm not even going to go there because KB is an excellent course, it's just if I'm going to Scotland I'm going to play a classic links that is not owned by an American. That's just me. Nothing is wrong with the course. I also would not pay the high greens fee again. For a 50 pound guest fee I would be in.

>

> I don't disagree it's a lot of money and after having a 36 hole day there, I'm not returning anytime soon; however, to say it's not 'authentic' is silly. It plays firm, as you'd expect a seaside course in Scotland to do and while the higher ground may not have started out as linksland, the bottom certainly was. Just because it's modern doesn't make it a bad choice for a 7 or 8 round week, a poorly executed modern course - like the one down the road towards town - makes a course a bad choice.

>

> There is also the overlooked benefit of it being a resort course that offers up morning weekend teetimes, which when you are trying to max out your golfing is useful.

> That Sat morning round at KB might otherwise be a lie in, waiting for your afternoon round or having to loop one of the 'lesser' Trust courses in town.

 

Where did I use the word authentic? Not hating on KB, just not playing it when in Scotland.

 

[duffer987]

> @SCalGolfer said:

> > @duffer987 said:

> > > @SCalGolfer said:

> > > > @duffer987 said:

> > > > > @SCalGolfer said:

> > > > > > @tiderider said:

> > > > > > > @philsRHman said:

> > > > > > > Thanks for all the input, much appreciated. Any opinions of time of year would be helpful. I know 2bgood is the April champion. Since I’m always a fan of trading something for weather (sometimes lower rates but in this case, potentially worse weather) I’m not looking to go at peak time (plus it’s harder to pull off at home in summer). Given the Scottish weather can be crap any time of year, it seems like a fair trade off.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Will definitely dig in more on courses as I get more firm plans. Musselburgh struck me as a familiar name so I thought that might be a heck of a way to kick off the week. Castle is intriguing since I read the book and have heard more positive reviews of late. I think the two I could end up kicking myself over are KB and Carnoustie. In addition to being a real kick in the wallet, I guess they don’t quite fit the somewhat under the radar vibe I’m going for. That said, I’ll probably end up adding both. Fornanyone who has played KB and in Bandon, how do they compare? I guess my feeling is do I want to spend $350-400 for a modern course when i can add another hidden gem for a fraction or ****, even an absurd 3rd or 4th or even 5th round on TOC.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > you could play Whistling Straits and get the same experience as KB ... it's a very, very good course, with great conditions, but does not offer a true links experience (i'd say "imo", but i just don't see how anyone can argue otherwise as to the links experience) ... i've played Lundin Links and 2nd the opinion it is a course worth considering (short drive) ...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > would imagine a $900 airfare out of nyc to edin is about the best value you can get without getting lucky on the timing or using some type of cc miles program, though united does have one that works very well for that trip ... if i saw one at $800 i'd take it in a heartbeat ... there is a lot to be said for playing TOC several times on one trip ... it is a ton of fun and a fantastic way to play golf ... the design and some of the holes are unique, even for links golf, and are simply a blast to play, not just from a "strategy" standpoint but from a "do I have this shot" standpoint, so if you skipped anything to have another go at TOC, it's not the worst idea ... you will remember more holes at TOC than at KB, i can assure of that, however ... Carnoustie is simply a tough course that you play to have a score on and compare to the pros so that you can chime in on "would an average golfer break 100?" thread ... again, you're an hour away ...

> > > > >

> > > > > I agree with Tide. No reason to spend the big bucks to play KB. Play an authentic Scottish course and save some coin. There are plenty to choose from.

> > > >

> > > > What was it specifically you didn't enjoy about your experience playing Kingsbarns; as it is in Fife, which is in Scotland, which makes it an authentic Scottish course. Now had it been in Fife, Washington, then fair point on authenticity.

> > >

> > > I'm not even going to go there because KB is an excellent course, it's just if I'm going to Scotland I'm going to play a classic links that is not owned by an American. That's just me. Nothing is wrong with the course. I also would not pay the high greens fee again. For a 50 pound guest fee I would be in.

> >

> > I don't disagree it's a lot of money and after having a 36 hole day there, I'm not returning anytime soon; however, to say it's not 'authentic' is silly. It plays firm, as you'd expect a seaside course in Scotland to do and while the higher ground may not have started out as linksland, the bottom certainly was. Just because it's modern doesn't make it a bad choice for a 7 or 8 round week, a poorly executed modern course - like the one down the road towards town - makes a course a bad choice.

> >

> > There is also the overlooked benefit of it being a resort course that offers up morning weekend teetimes, which when you are trying to max out your golfing is useful.

> > That Sat morning round at KB might otherwise be a lie in, waiting for your afternoon round or having to loop one of the 'lesser' Trust courses in town.

>

> Where did I use the word authentic? Not hating on KB, just not playing it when in Scotland.

>

 

In the quoted text here.

Sure I understand that sentiment, but I always think it's easy for folks who have already played here or there to say I'd give this or that a pass or these are 'must plays' (some other poster's words not yours). But if someone is making a 'once in a lifetime' trip and will be based in Fife for a week playing 7 or 8 rounds, KB is a solid choice in amongst all the classic courses on offer.

[SCalGolfer]

> @duffer987 said:

> > @SCalGolfer said:

> > > @duffer987 said:

> > > > @SCalGolfer said:

> > > > > @duffer987 said:

> > > > > > @SCalGolfer said:

> > > > > > > @tiderider said:

> > > > > > > > @philsRHman said:

> > > > > > > > Thanks for all the input, much appreciated. Any opinions of time of year would be helpful. I know 2bgood is the April champion. Since I’m always a fan of trading something for weather (sometimes lower rates but in this case, potentially worse weather) I’m not looking to go at peak time (plus it’s harder to pull off at home in summer). Given the Scottish weather can be crap any time of year, it seems like a fair trade off.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Will definitely dig in more on courses as I get more firm plans. Musselburgh struck me as a familiar name so I thought that might be a heck of a way to kick off the week. Castle is intriguing since I read the book and have heard more positive reviews of late. I think the two I could end up kicking myself over are KB and Carnoustie. In addition to being a real kick in the wallet, I guess they don’t quite fit the somewhat under the radar vibe I’m going for. That said, I’ll probably end up adding both. Fornanyone who has played KB and in Bandon, how do they compare? I guess my feeling is do I want to spend $350-400 for a modern course when i can add another hidden gem for a fraction or ****, even an absurd 3rd or 4th or even 5th round on TOC.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > you could play Whistling Straits and get the same experience as KB ... it's a very, very good course, with great conditions, but does not offer a true links experience (i'd say "imo", but i just don't see how anyone can argue otherwise as to the links experience) ... i've played Lundin Links and 2nd the opinion it is a course worth considering (short drive) ...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > would imagine a $900 airfare out of nyc to edin is about the best value you can get without getting lucky on the timing or using some type of cc miles program, though united does have one that works very well for that trip ... if i saw one at $800 i'd take it in a heartbeat ... there is a lot to be said for playing TOC several times on one trip ... it is a ton of fun and a fantastic way to play golf ... the design and some of the holes are unique, even for links golf, and are simply a blast to play, not just from a "strategy" standpoint but from a "do I have this shot" standpoint, so if you skipped anything to have another go at TOC, it's not the worst idea ... you will remember more holes at TOC than at KB, i can assure of that, however ... Carnoustie is simply a tough course that you play to have a score on and compare to the pros so that you can chime in on "would an average golfer break 100?" thread ... again, you're an hour away ...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I agree with Tide. No reason to spend the big bucks to play KB. Play an authentic Scottish course and save some coin. There are plenty to choose from.

> > > > >

> > > > > What was it specifically you didn't enjoy about your experience playing Kingsbarns; as it is in Fife, which is in Scotland, which makes it an authentic Scottish course. Now had it been in Fife, Washington, then fair point on authenticity.

> > > >

> > > > I'm not even going to go there because KB is an excellent course, it's just if I'm going to Scotland I'm going to play a classic links that is not owned by an American. That's just me. Nothing is wrong with the course. I also would not pay the high greens fee again. For a 50 pound guest fee I would be in.

> > >

> > > I don't disagree it's a lot of money and after having a 36 hole day there, I'm not returning anytime soon; however, to say it's not 'authentic' is silly. It plays firm, as you'd expect a seaside course in Scotland to do and while the higher ground may not have started out as linksland, the bottom certainly was. Just because it's modern doesn't make it a bad choice for a 7 or 8 round week, a poorly executed modern course - like the one down the road towards town - makes a course a bad choice.

> > >

> > > There is also the overlooked benefit of it being a resort course that offers up morning weekend teetimes, which when you are trying to max out your golfing is useful.

> > > That Sat morning round at KB might otherwise be a lie in, waiting for your afternoon round or having to loop one of the 'lesser' Trust courses in town.

> >

> > Where did I use the word authentic? Not hating on KB, just not playing it when in Scotland.

> >

>

> In the quoted text here.

> Sure I understand that sentiment, but I always think it's easy for folks who have already played here or there to say I'd give this or that a pass or these are 'must plays' (some other poster's words not yours). But if someone is making a 'once in a lifetime' trip and will be based in Fife for a week playing 7 or 8 rounds, KB is a solid choice in amongst all the classic courses on offer.

 

Good call, I did say it. KB is a beautiful course I do however prefer classic Scottish courses.

[duffer987]

> @SCalGolfer said:

> > @duffer987 said:

> > > @SCalGolfer said:

> > > > @duffer987 said:

> > > > > @SCalGolfer said:

> > > > > > @duffer987 said:

> > > > > > > @SCalGolfer said:

> > > > > > > > @tiderider said:

> > > > > > > > > @philsRHman said:

> > > > > > > > > Thanks for all the input, much appreciated. Any opinions of time of year would be helpful. I know 2bgood is the April champion. Since I’m always a fan of trading something for weather (sometimes lower rates but in this case, potentially worse weather) I’m not looking to go at peak time (plus it’s harder to pull off at home in summer). Given the Scottish weather can be crap any time of year, it seems like a fair trade off.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Will definitely dig in more on courses as I get more firm plans. Musselburgh struck me as a familiar name so I thought that might be a heck of a way to kick off the week. Castle is intriguing since I read the book and have heard more positive reviews of late. I think the two I could end up kicking myself over are KB and Carnoustie. In addition to being a real kick in the wallet, I guess they don’t quite fit the somewhat under the radar vibe I’m going for. That said, I’ll probably end up adding both. Fornanyone who has played KB and in Bandon, how do they compare? I guess my feeling is do I want to spend $350-400 for a modern course when i can add another hidden gem for a fraction or ****, even an absurd 3rd or 4th or even 5th round on TOC.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > you could play Whistling Straits and get the same experience as KB ... it's a very, very good course, with great conditions, but does not offer a true links experience (i'd say "imo", but i just don't see how anyone can argue otherwise as to the links experience) ... i've played Lundin Links and 2nd the opinion it is a course worth considering (short drive) ...

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > would imagine a $900 airfare out of nyc to edin is about the best value you can get without getting lucky on the timing or using some type of cc miles program, though united does have one that works very well for that trip ... if i saw one at $800 i'd take it in a heartbeat ... there is a lot to be said for playing TOC several times on one trip ... it is a ton of fun and a fantastic way to play golf ... the design and some of the holes are unique, even for links golf, and are simply a blast to play, not just from a "strategy" standpoint but from a "do I have this shot" standpoint, so if you skipped anything to have another go at TOC, it's not the worst idea ... you will remember more holes at TOC than at KB, i can assure of that, however ... Carnoustie is simply a tough course that you play to have a score on and compare to the pros so that you can chime in on "would an average golfer break 100?" thread ... again, you're an hour away ...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I agree with Tide. No reason to spend the big bucks to play KB. Play an authentic Scottish course and save some coin. There are plenty to choose from.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What was it specifically you didn't enjoy about your experience playing Kingsbarns; as it is in Fife, which is in Scotland, which makes it an authentic Scottish course. Now had it been in Fife, Washington, then fair point on authenticity.

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm not even going to go there because KB is an excellent course, it's just if I'm going to Scotland I'm going to play a classic links that is not owned by an American. That's just me. Nothing is wrong with the course. I also would not pay the high greens fee again. For a 50 pound guest fee I would be in.

> > > >

> > > > I don't disagree it's a lot of money and after having a 36 hole day there, I'm not returning anytime soon; however, to say it's not 'authentic' is silly. It plays firm, as you'd expect a seaside course in Scotland to do and while the higher ground may not have started out as linksland, the bottom certainly was. Just because it's modern doesn't make it a bad choice for a 7 or 8 round week, a poorly executed modern course - like the one down the road towards town - makes a course a bad choice.

> > > >

> > > > There is also the overlooked benefit of it being a resort course that offers up morning weekend teetimes, which when you are trying to max out your golfing is useful.

> > > > That Sat morning round at KB might otherwise be a lie in, waiting for your afternoon round or having to loop one of the 'lesser' Trust courses in town.

> > >

> > > Where did I use the word authentic? Not hating on KB, just not playing it when in Scotland.

> > >

> >

> > In the quoted text here.

> > Sure I understand that sentiment, but I always think it's easy for folks who have already played here or there to say I'd give this or that a pass or these are 'must plays' (some other poster's words not yours). But if someone is making a 'once in a lifetime' trip and will be based in Fife for a week playing 7 or 8 rounds, KB is a solid choice in amongst all the classic courses on offer.

>

> Good call, I did say it. KB is a beautiful course I do however prefer classic Scottish courses.

 

Oh for sure agreed. Really TOC + South Fife coastline courses would see anyone through a really enjoyable trip!