Great ball test!

Red4282 · September 19, 2019

> @rwbloom93 said:

> > @Red4282 said:

> > > @rwbloom93 said:

> > > > @Red4282 said:

> > > > > @rwbloom93 said:

> > > > > My

> > > > > > @Red4282 said:

> > > > > > > @ghoul31 said:

> > > > > > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > > > > > > @ghoul31 said:

> > > > > > > > > The 2 sotfest ball, the ERC soft, and the wilson duo professional tied for 1st

> > > > > > > > > So yes this test totally contradicts the other test

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > By "tied for 1st" you mean at some arbitrary combination of clubhead speed, loft and launch conditions they flew a bit farther. If they re-ran the test with a couple degrees more or less loft some other balls would top the distance list.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > See friend arbeck's explanation for why that sort of "test" doesn't tell you anything about how the distance of the balls will compare under optimized launch conditions.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > yes so its depends on launch conditions if a softer ball goes farther or not

> > > > > > > The other test was trying to say that a softer ball will always go less far, which is clearly not true

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > No they didnt... the other testers clearly said softer is SLOWER...not shorter.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > MyGolfClowns stated ...."A soft ball is a slow ball; it’s that simple. If you are playing a “soft” golf ball, it’s probably costing you distance off the tee....."....and.... "Firmer balls are faster, generally longer...." .....and then they made a chart to explicitly say Pro V1x (high compression) is the longest ball for slower swing speeds.

> > > > >

> > > > > That certainly sounds like they are saying soft=slow=short....no? They only use the words "probably", and "generally", because exceptions are evident for <85 mph swing speeds and a decent percentage of golfers are <85 mph.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Oh geeze. Yes they said generally, not always, but for arguments sake ill show you why. In this test the brx went farther than other balls even though it was slower. The main reason was spin rate. So lets take a brx with 1 mph less ball speed vs tp5x. Lets say the brx was spinning at 2800, and the tp5x was at 3100.

> > > >

> > > > The difference in spin led to the slower ball being longer. NOW, heres where your failing to understand. A change in driver head (moving cg) or a different shaft, to lower the tp5xs spin... which 300 revs certainly is obtainable. The tp5x is now longer. You cant ALWAYS make an equipmemt change to get these results, and hence the term generally.

> > > >

> > > > Now those guys at mygolfpie could have stated it better no doubt. But in the real world, getting fitted for your ideal launch and spin, to maximize distance, the ball that has the highest speed will always go further. Whether or not you can obtain those numbers with that ball is another story.

> > >

> > > I believe most on this forum understand ball distance is a function of speed, launch angle, spin, tilt axis, AOD, etc...I have made this a staple of most of my posts...not sure what you think I don't understand.

> > >

> > > Anyway, the question is not what I or you understand but whether or not MyGolfSissies claim... Soft=Slow=Short. It's clear to me (and to many others) that they do, but you're convinced they don't. I disagree with you about why they use the words "probably" and "generally" but they leave no doubt in the "Carry and Offline" section when the state..... "The Snell MTB-X is notable for being several yards longer than the next closest ball, while the low compression set is appreciably shorter than the average."...Note: They do not say soft=slow here....they say SOFT = SHORT.

> > >

> > > (To be clear, Soft=Short for their test and the way their Robot was setup.)

> > >

> > > My argument has always been this information is applicable only to the robot and those humans whose swing closely replicates a robot with the robot's specific setup (which I claim is virtually nobody...thus...robot testing is not helpful for humans and their trillions of varying swings). Interesting! but ultimately not helpful in and of itself.

> > >

> > > The Today's Golfer test shows that simply using a different club shuffles the ball performance order. What do you think will happened to ball performance data if they change A.O.A (-5 vs +5...or -2 vs +2)? What will happen if they change Clubface strike geometry (eg. face closing at impact or opening at impact)? What about swing path geometry (outside to in vs. inside to out)? What if they change all those at the same time?

> > >

> > > The robot can be setup a million different ways and each different way will likely reshuffle the ball performance order.

> > >

> > > Therefore, IMHO, robot testing is not transferable to the vast majority of Golfers. MyGolfLosers have sprained their arm patting themselves on the back but literally have only given us a few data points out of trillions and trillions. Today's Golfer test data is not any more helpful....but...it is useful in proving small changes in robot testing will produce somewhat different ball performance results.

> > >

> > > Peace.

> > >

> > Haha, you are clearly triggered by myglfpies... for whatever reason. Maybe your favorite ball or club didnt rate well with them and you just cant fathom someone saying something else could be better. I dunno what your axe to grind with them is. I take them like i take crossfield, txg and any other “tester”. They all draw their own conclusions, But just ignore that and look at the data and what it really means.

> >

> > You act like cause they said the mtbx was longer in their test and therefore its longer All the time for everyone. They didnt. Thats

> > you jumping to your own biased conclusion. Your argument about swing dynamics is a mute point, no matter how you deliver it, the Results will be similar, as far as ball speeds go. You are correct in all the variables in a golf swing and equipment, it is possible the softer compression ball for maximum distance COULD (anomaly) be the best choice, but highly unlikely .

> >

> > Either way it doesn't matter, you are supposed to choose your ball on short game performance first. I just get triggered when people have biases towards things that lead to ignoring facts, data, and science.

> >

> > By the way they did a video with titleist reps who admitted softer is slower, And callaway has admitted this too.

>

> Red, me and you just don't see eye to eye. That's fine. I will respond to you one last time in this thread and then just leave you alone.

> 1. If you read my posts (I don't blame you if you haven't) you would know I don't have a favorite ball.

> 2. MyGolfClowns conclusions from the data bother me not them personally (I think they are over reaching...Today's golfer helps confirm that).

> 3. I don't use their proper name because its not allowed, I insult them (the name) because I thought that was the requirement here (I'm fairly new) in order to use the site in a post.

> 4. I'm not jumping to conclusions, I quoted their exact words.

> 5. I never claimed soft isn't slow(er). I have only ever claimed mid is longer for me and my swing.

> 6. Choosing a ball based on short game is a solid strategy but I need distance more because the courses I play are slow.

> 7. I don't ignore facts, data or science at all, I simply question conclusions drawn from the data. I love science and testing...I'm an Engineer do it all the time!

> Godspeed to you, perhaps we will see eye to eye in other thread or topic.

>

Hey man, i get a little passionate on here at times as im sure most of us do. For whatever ball you play, great its the one you prefer, nothing wrong with that. But just out of curiosity, #5.... have you been fitted before? Do you know your launch, spin, ball speed numbers by any chance?

Monaco · September 19, 2019

What a great Ball test! And what discussion ???

I have to say, that both tests let me thinking about balls.

Both tests showed (and both said it): X Balls are the Balls you have to go to!

But: I think they said it for the wrong reason.

Of the driver: i think there isn‘t so much in it.

When it comes to short game and iron play: the x balls spin more. A lot more.

So there are Player, who want high spin with iron and wedges. Me too. So i tried all the x balls, what i haven‘t done before and it‘s true: they spin more.

If you are a player, who search for less spin with iron and wedges: Go for the softer balls!!

And for me: feel is a habituation thing.

BiggErn · September 19, 2019

> @agolf1 said:

> > @Andygolderson said:

> > I like the feeling of the soft balls and the control you can have over them in the green.

> I play the SuperSoft a lot, and like it for all parts of my game. However, I've always wondered if the sound/feel of this ball around the green makes it seem like you can do more with it (vs. what you actually can do / how it performs)? I mean it doesn't spin more than a ProV (which may be good or bad for total short game performance), and I'm guessing spin is what people usually associate with "control" (whether or not they can actually control the spin consistently). I do think these balls (SuperSoft or Soft Feel) grab a bit more than the pure two-piece distance balls like a Velocity if that's what your comparison is to.

Not only does it not spin around the green it doesn’t anywhere else either. If you have any kind of swing speed it’s almost impossible to control short irons and wedges due to the extreme lack of spin. I’m not talking about it carrying the correct distance and just not stopping but rather flying forever over the target.

Titleist_PT23 · September 19, 2019

> @BiggErn said:

> > @agolf1 said:

> > > @Andygolderson said:

> > > I like the feeling of the soft balls and the control you can have over them in the green.

> > I play the SuperSoft a lot, and like it for all parts of my game. However, I've always wondered if the sound/feel of this ball around the green makes it seem like you can do more with it (vs. what you actually can do / how it performs)? I mean it doesn't spin more than a ProV (which may be good or bad for total short game performance), and I'm guessing spin is what people usually associate with "control" (whether or not they can actually control the spin consistently). I do think these balls (SuperSoft or Soft Feel) grab a bit more than the pure two-piece distance balls like a Velocity if that's what your comparison is to.

>

> Not only does it not spin around the green it doesn’t anywhere else either. If you have any kind of swing speed it’s almost impossible to control short irons and wedges due to the extreme lack of spin. I’m not talking about it carrying the correct distance and just not stopping but rather flying forever over the target.

I"m pretty moderate speed. I hit a 36 degree iron about 150 yards carry. Personally, I've found that these type of balls stop nearly as quick as urethane balls on full iron shots. I believe it is because the SuperSofts fly higher but I don't know for sure.

I believe most people here think they have a lot more control over the ball than they actually do. You probably have a nice 10 foot circle as your target from 175-200 yards, right? Rarely outside of that I'd guess. For me, there is 5-10 yards of variation on reasonably well struck shots from 5-iron to GW. Exact contact location on the face, loft delivered at impact, how the ball is sitting, wind, elevation, air temperature, etc. I don't have the ability to judge all of that so precisely, but I'm probably not as good as you are.

BiggErn · September 19, 2019

> @agolf1 said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > @Andygolderson said:

> > > > I like the feeling of the soft balls and the control you can have over them in the green.

> > > I play the SuperSoft a lot, and like it for all parts of my game. However, I've always wondered if the sound/feel of this ball around the green makes it seem like you can do more with it (vs. what you actually can do / how it performs)? I mean it doesn't spin more than a ProV (which may be good or bad for total short game performance), and I'm guessing spin is what people usually associate with "control" (whether or not they can actually control the spin consistently). I do think these balls (SuperSoft or Soft Feel) grab a bit more than the pure two-piece distance balls like a Velocity if that's what your comparison is to.

> >

> > Not only does it not spin around the green it doesn’t anywhere else either. If you have any kind of swing speed it’s almost impossible to control short irons and wedges due to the extreme lack of spin. I’m not talking about it carrying the correct distance and just not stopping but rather flying forever over the target.

> I"m pretty moderate speed. I hit a 36 degree iron about 150 yards carry. Personally, I've found that these type of balls stop nearly as quick as urethane balls on full iron shots. I believe it is because the SuperSofts fly higher but I don't know for sure.

>

> I believe most people here think they have a lot more control over the ball than they actually do. You probably have a nice 10 foot circle as your target from 175-200 yards, right? Rarely outside of that I'd guess. For me, there is 5-10 yards of variation on reasonably well struck shots from 5-iron to GW. Exact contact location on the face, loft delivered at impact, how the ball is sitting, wind, elevation, air temperature, etc. I don't have the ability to judge all of that so precisely, but I'm probably not as good as you are.

Either you didn’t comprehend what I said or you assume I hit a short iron or wedge 175-200. Don't know if I’m better than you or not but I’m good enough to know I don’t need short irons and wedges airmailing greens where they normally wouldn’t.

Titleist_PT23 · September 19, 2019

> @BiggErn said:

> > @agolf1 said:

> > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > @Andygolderson said:

> > > > > I like the feeling of the soft balls and the control you can have over them in the green.

> > > > I play the SuperSoft a lot, and like it for all parts of my game. However, I've always wondered if the sound/feel of this ball around the green makes it seem like you can do more with it (vs. what you actually can do / how it performs)? I mean it doesn't spin more than a ProV (which may be good or bad for total short game performance), and I'm guessing spin is what people usually associate with "control" (whether or not they can actually control the spin consistently). I do think these balls (SuperSoft or Soft Feel) grab a bit more than the pure two-piece distance balls like a Velocity if that's what your comparison is to.

> > >

> > > Not only does it not spin around the green it doesn’t anywhere else either. If you have any kind of swing speed it’s almost impossible to control short irons and wedges due to the extreme lack of spin. I’m not talking about it carrying the correct distance and just not stopping but rather flying forever over the target.

> > I"m pretty moderate speed. I hit a 36 degree iron about 150 yards carry. Personally, I've found that these type of balls stop nearly as quick as urethane balls on full iron shots. I believe it is because the SuperSofts fly higher but I don't know for sure.

> >

> > I believe most people here think they have a lot more control over the ball than they actually do. You probably have a nice 10 foot circle as your target from 175-200 yards, right? Rarely outside of that I'd guess. For me, there is 5-10 yards of variation on reasonably well struck shots from 5-iron to GW. Exact contact location on the face, loft delivered at impact, how the ball is sitting, wind, elevation, air temperature, etc. I don't have the ability to judge all of that so precisely, but I'm probably not as good as you are.

>

> Either you didn’t comprehend what I said or you assume I hit a short iron or wedge 175-200. Don't know if I’m better than you or not but I’m good enough to know I don’t need short irons and wedges airmailing greens where they normally wouldn’t.

My point is you may airmail the green for any number of reasons that are due to you. Everyone blames the ball, the clubhead design, etc. Maybe some types of equipment aren't as consistent but I'd bet more than half the variation is user error (i.e. people think they have a pro like swing but they suck).

BiggErn · September 19, 2019

> @agolf1 said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > > @Andygolderson said:

> > > > > > I like the feeling of the soft balls and the control you can have over them in the green.

> > > > > I play the SuperSoft a lot, and like it for all parts of my game. However, I've always wondered if the sound/feel of this ball around the green makes it seem like you can do more with it (vs. what you actually can do / how it performs)? I mean it doesn't spin more than a ProV (which may be good or bad for total short game performance), and I'm guessing spin is what people usually associate with "control" (whether or not they can actually control the spin consistently). I do think these balls (SuperSoft or Soft Feel) grab a bit more than the pure two-piece distance balls like a Velocity if that's what your comparison is to.

> > > >

> > > > Not only does it not spin around the green it doesn’t anywhere else either. If you have any kind of swing speed it’s almost impossible to control short irons and wedges due to the extreme lack of spin. I’m not talking about it carrying the correct distance and just not stopping but rather flying forever over the target.

> > > I"m pretty moderate speed. I hit a 36 degree iron about 150 yards carry. Personally, I've found that these type of balls stop nearly as quick as urethane balls on full iron shots. I believe it is because the SuperSofts fly higher but I don't know for sure.

> > >

> > > I believe most people here think they have a lot more control over the ball than they actually do. You probably have a nice 10 foot circle as your target from 175-200 yards, right? Rarely outside of that I'd guess. For me, there is 5-10 yards of variation on reasonably well struck shots from 5-iron to GW. Exact contact location on the face, loft delivered at impact, how the ball is sitting, wind, elevation, air temperature, etc. I don't have the ability to judge all of that so precisely, but I'm probably not as good as you are.

> >

> > Either you didn’t comprehend what I said or you assume I hit a short iron or wedge 175-200. Don't know if I’m better than you or not but I’m good enough to know I don’t need short irons and wedges airmailing greens where they normally wouldn’t.

> My point is you may airmail the green for any number of reasons that are due to you. Everyone blames the ball, the clubhead design, etc. Maybe some types of equipment aren't as consistent but I'd bet more than half the variation is user error (i.e. people think they have a pro like swing but they suck).

Lol ok. I doubt any rational person doesn’t realize there’s always gonna be some degree of dispersion and don’t make a judgement based on one instance. Maybe I’m better than I thought to be able to diagnose a marshmallow ball with virtually no spin as the culprit.

Titleist_PT23 · September 19, 2019

> @BiggErn said:

> > @agolf1 said:

> > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > > > @Andygolderson said:

> > > > > > > I like the feeling of the soft balls and the control you can have over them in the green.

> > > > > > I play the SuperSoft a lot, and like it for all parts of my game. However, I've always wondered if the sound/feel of this ball around the green makes it seem like you can do more with it (vs. what you actually can do / how it performs)? I mean it doesn't spin more than a ProV (which may be good or bad for total short game performance), and I'm guessing spin is what people usually associate with "control" (whether or not they can actually control the spin consistently). I do think these balls (SuperSoft or Soft Feel) grab a bit more than the pure two-piece distance balls like a Velocity if that's what your comparison is to.

> > > > >

> > > > > Not only does it not spin around the green it doesn’t anywhere else either. If you have any kind of swing speed it’s almost impossible to control short irons and wedges due to the extreme lack of spin. I’m not talking about it carrying the correct distance and just not stopping but rather flying forever over the target.

> > > > I"m pretty moderate speed. I hit a 36 degree iron about 150 yards carry. Personally, I've found that these type of balls stop nearly as quick as urethane balls on full iron shots. I believe it is because the SuperSofts fly higher but I don't know for sure.

> > > >

> > > > I believe most people here think they have a lot more control over the ball than they actually do. You probably have a nice 10 foot circle as your target from 175-200 yards, right? Rarely outside of that I'd guess. For me, there is 5-10 yards of variation on reasonably well struck shots from 5-iron to GW. Exact contact location on the face, loft delivered at impact, how the ball is sitting, wind, elevation, air temperature, etc. I don't have the ability to judge all of that so precisely, but I'm probably not as good as you are.

> > >

> > > Either you didn’t comprehend what I said or you assume I hit a short iron or wedge 175-200. Don't know if I’m better than you or not but I’m good enough to know I don’t need short irons and wedges airmailing greens where they normally wouldn’t.

> > My point is you may airmail the green for any number of reasons that are due to you. Everyone blames the ball, the clubhead design, etc. Maybe some types of equipment aren't as consistent but I'd bet more than half the variation is user error (i.e. people think they have a pro like swing but they suck).

>

> Lol ok. I doubt any rational person doesn’t realize there’s always gonna be some degree of dispersion and don’t make a judgement based on one instance. Maybe I’m better than I thought to be able to diagnose a marshmallow ball with virtually no spin as the culprit.

It works fine for me. I bet you could improve more by hitting the centre of the face with the correct face/path and right swing speed and this would trump any difference there is between ball choice today. Is the tour ball better? Sure but when chops that miss the target 50% of the time (possibly more) anyways are blaming it all on the crappy ball I have my doubts.

North Butte · September 19, 2019

> @agolf1 said:

> Is the tour ball better? Sure but when chops that miss the target 50% of the time (possibly more) anyways are blaming it all on the crappy ball I have my doubts.

I would never blame "all" my bad shots on the golf ball. Or golf club. Or anything but me being a bad golfer. I played my best round in two years yesterday and still hit a couple of shots that were absolutely terrible for no reason other than me-suck-age.

I play high-performance golf balls to avoid that one shot every round or two where I hit a shot as well as I can possibly hit it but a low-spin ball releases and runs off the back of the green. Whatever (slight) premium I pay for buying "Tour" balls is worth it even if it just avoids a handful of those shots per month.

The comment quoted above is kind of like the inevitable guys that show up in any discussion of rangefinders. The comment is always something like, "You're probably going to mishit the shot by 10 or 20 yards most of the time anyway. Why does the exact distance matter". Of course the answer is, it matters because on the half dozen shots a round I do hit the proper distance, I want to end up near the hole!

dlygrisse · September 19, 2019

> @agolf1 said:

> > @Andygolderson said:

> > I like the feeling of the soft balls and the control you can have over them in the green.

> I play the SuperSoft a lot, and like it for all parts of my game. However, I've always wondered if the sound/feel of this ball around the green makes it seem like you can do more with it (vs. what you actually can do / how it performs)? I mean it doesn't spin more than a ProV (which may be good or bad for total short game performance), and I'm guessing spin is what people usually associate with "control" (whether or not they can actually control the spin consistently). I do think these balls (SuperSoft or Soft Feel) grab a bit more than the pure two-piece distance balls like a Velocity if that's what your comparison is to.

You wondered correctly. I played the SS a bunch a last year during the winter and cooler months when I liked the feel and the ground was soft etc. What I found when I went back to the proVX was that my short game immediately improved, and that my driver distance increased (if only by a little bit). Although I think I hit my irons longer with the SS. The test on the other site confirmed my suspicions.

My other takeaway from the other site was that some balls are way more consistent than others. The Chrome Soft being one of the worst. The CS is a good ball, but I am convinced they have horrible balls mixed in because of QC issues.

North Butte · September 19, 2019

> @dlygrisse said:

> You wondered correctly. I played the SS a bunch a last year during the winter and cooler months when I liked the feel and the ground was soft etc. What I found when I went back to the proVX was that my short game immediately improved, and that my driver distance increased (if only by a little bit). Although I think I hit my irons longer with the SS. The test on the other site confirmed my suspicions.

It's been nearly three years since I gave Supersoft a good trial over a dozen or so rounds. But I could have written virtually word for word what you said. My impressions:

Plenty long off irons (with very high flight)

High but not as long as Pro V1x with the driver

Didn't do any favors for my short game, a definite liability there

As cheap distance balls go it was OK I guess. Probably about as good all-around performance as you're going to get without a urethane cover. But I'm not interested. Especially not given that the price is actually not very cheap.

dlygrisse · September 19, 2019

> @"North Butte" said:

> > @dlygrisse said:

> > You wondered correctly. I played the SS a bunch a last year during the winter and cooler months when I liked the feel and the ground was soft etc. What I found when I went back to the proVX was that my short game immediately improved, and that my driver distance increased (if only by a little bit). Although I think I hit my irons longer with the SS. The test on the other site confirmed my suspicions.

>

> It's been nearly three years since I gave Supersoft a good trial over a dozen or so rounds. But I could have written virtually word for word what you said. My impressions:

>

> Plenty long off irons (with very high flight)

> High but not as long as Pro V1x with the driver

> Didn't do any favors for my short game, a definite liability there

>

> As cheap distance balls go it was OK I guess. Probably about as good all-around performance as you're going to get without a urethane cover. But I'm not interested. Especially not given that the price is actually not very cheap.

Exactly.

I have a bunch of random balls laying around my back yard, and I hit a bunch of 30-ish yard chips and pitches while I'm milling around most evenings. The SS consistently gives a much high launch off a wedge than a urethane covered ball, it just jumps, like a flier with the wedges on occasion. Compared to a ProV or x, which launch much lower and spin much more. Yes you can learn to use the SS around the green but the difference of controlling a shot 3' short or long compared to a tour quality ball can be huge difference around the green.

The do feel nice off these modern thin faced irons though.

North Butte · September 19, 2019

> @dlygrisse said:

> I have a bunch of random balls laying around my back yard, and I hit a bunch of 30-ish yard chips and pitches while I'm milling around most evenings. The SS consistently gives a much high launch off a wedge than a urethane covered ball, it just jumps, like a flier with the wedges on occasion. Compared to a ProV or x, which launch much lower and spin much more. Yes you can learn to use the SS around the green but the difference of controlling a shot 3' short or long compared to a tour quality ball can be huge difference around the green.

I had a shot yesterday that would have illustrated the difference. It was about 35 yards or a bit less and I was short-sided (about 15 feet of green to work with). My intention was to fly the ball about pin high because beyond the hole was a slight upslope. Between the edge of the green and the hole the green sloped away from me so I didn't want it to land there and get a hard kick forward.

The ball came out just a bit softer than I meant to and landed just barely onto the green on the downslope. Sure enough it rolled about 10 feet past the hole. If I had made that same mistake with something like a SuperSoft I'll be the kick forward off that downslope would have no joke sent the ball 20-30 feet up the hill past the hole.

Of course sometimes a low-spin ball accidentally bails you out. Maybe you land just short in the fringe and a SS kicks onto the green but a Pro V1 digs in. But I've played enough with both types to know the odds are in my favor when even 30-40 yard wedge shots will dig in a check a bit on firm greens.

Titleist_PT23 · September 19, 2019

> @"North Butte" said:

> > @dlygrisse said:

> > You wondered correctly. I played the SS a bunch a last year during the winter and cooler months when I liked the feel and the ground was soft etc. What I found when I went back to the proVX was that my short game immediately improved, and that my driver distance increased (if only by a little bit). Although I think I hit my irons longer with the SS. The test on the other site confirmed my suspicions.

>

> It's been nearly three years since I gave Supersoft a good trial over a dozen or so rounds. But I could have written virtually word for word what you said. My impressions:

>

> Plenty long off irons (with very high flight)

> High but not as long as Pro V1x with the driver

> Didn't do any favors for my short game, a definite liability there

>

> As cheap distance balls go it was OK I guess. Probably about as good all-around performance as you're going to get without a urethane cover. But I'm not interested. Especially not given that the price is actually not very cheap.

I'd largely agree. Off the irons I think these are 1/2 club or so longer (and higher flight). Driver I can't tell, as strike and course conditions are bigger factors, although I don't dispute that it is probably marginally shorter given a large enough sample / optimizing spin and launch with the club.

Short game it is completely different. I still think the urethane adds at most a shot (for me) and I am still undecided whether less is more here (i.e. the surlyn is actually better argument in the is a urethane hurting me thread). In principal, I don't see how the urethane can be worse, but in practice I'm not 100% sure yet. Right now my short game is very basic and very average for my ability, as I don't practice it much (time and facility constraints). But I still contend that getting up and down on at least half the shots you face is primarily determined by whether you can get clean contact / ball on the right grooves vs. the actual ball itself. But as mentioned above the better balls do give you more options where you can't play a shot with more roll.

Titleist_PT23 · September 19, 2019

> @"North Butte" said:

> I play high-performance golf balls to avoid that one shot every round or two where I hit a shot as well as I can possibly hit it but a low-spin ball releases and runs off the back of the green. Whatever (slight) premium I pay for buying "Tour" balls is worth it even if it just avoids a handful of those shots per month.

>

> The comment quoted above is kind of like the inevitable guys that show up in any discussion of rangefinders. The comment is always something like, "You're probably going to mishit the shot by 10 or 20 yards most of the time anyway. Why does the exact distance matter". Of course the answer is, it matters because on the half dozen shots a round I do hit the proper distance, I want to end up near the hole!

Understand. I kind of look at it two ways. First, the quality of my 36 full swings per round trumps any difference in any reasonably well fitting equipment. The variance among these swings from round to round is much larger than ball choice or iron design choice for me. However, playing the "best" stuff may lower the average point estimate, which is undoubtedly a good thing. I guess I just get a little annoyed when people make it seem like certain stuff is basically unplayable vs. how you describe it above.

I think I also mentioned once before I don't have a rangefinder or GPS watch, etc either....

North Butte · September 19, 2019

I really only care about my good shots, if I'm honest. Yeah I get mad when I duff one or lose a ball or something. But when I'm sitting at home in the evening after a round of golf all I'm thinking about is those maybe 4-8 really good irons or short-game shots that came off exactly like I wanted.

So I always use equipment that makes my good shots as good as they can be. Not to any crazy degree (not going to trying using a 64 degree wedge just to pull off a miracle Phil Mickelson moon shot once a year) but within reason that's my emphasis. So I laser everything, I keep my wedge fairly new with good grooves and I use a high performance ball.

It's entirely possible some other choices would work out on average to the same scores.

tsecor · September 19, 2019

I cant wait for the new and improved chromesoft.........TP5 is the longest ball for me.....prov1 is the best all around ball.....for me......get fit for what you want......distance? greenside play? all around play???? we all want different things, but I'm willing to sacrifice 10 yards off the tee to have better results near and around the green. Scoring is what matters....its really the ONLY thing.

BiggErn · September 19, 2019

> @agolf1 said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > > > > @Andygolderson said:

> > > > > > > > I like the feeling of the soft balls and the control you can have over them in the green.

> > > > > > > I play the SuperSoft a lot, and like it for all parts of my game. However, I've always wondered if the sound/feel of this ball around the green makes it seem like you can do more with it (vs. what you actually can do / how it performs)? I mean it doesn't spin more than a ProV (which may be good or bad for total short game performance), and I'm guessing spin is what people usually associate with "control" (whether or not they can actually control the spin consistently). I do think these balls (SuperSoft or Soft Feel) grab a bit more than the pure two-piece distance balls like a Velocity if that's what your comparison is to.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Not only does it not spin around the green it doesn’t anywhere else either. If you have any kind of swing speed it’s almost impossible to control short irons and wedges due to the extreme lack of spin. I’m not talking about it carrying the correct distance and just not stopping but rather flying forever over the target.

> > > > > I"m pretty moderate speed. I hit a 36 degree iron about 150 yards carry. Personally, I've found that these type of balls stop nearly as quick as urethane balls on full iron shots. I believe it is because the SuperSofts fly higher but I don't know for sure.

> > > > >

> > > > > I believe most people here think they have a lot more control over the ball than they actually do. You probably have a nice 10 foot circle as your target from 175-200 yards, right? Rarely outside of that I'd guess. For me, there is 5-10 yards of variation on reasonably well struck shots from 5-iron to GW. Exact contact location on the face, loft delivered at impact, how the ball is sitting, wind, elevation, air temperature, etc. I don't have the ability to judge all of that so precisely, but I'm probably not as good as you are.

> > > >

> > > > Either you didn’t comprehend what I said or you assume I hit a short iron or wedge 175-200. Don't know if I’m better than you or not but I’m good enough to know I don’t need short irons and wedges airmailing greens where they normally wouldn’t.

> > > My point is you may airmail the green for any number of reasons that are due to you. Everyone blames the ball, the clubhead design, etc. Maybe some types of equipment aren't as consistent but I'd bet more than half the variation is user error (i.e. people think they have a pro like swing but they suck).

> >

> > Lol ok. I doubt any rational person doesn’t realize there’s always gonna be some degree of dispersion and don’t make a judgement based on one instance. Maybe I’m better than I thought to be able to diagnose a marshmallow ball with virtually no spin as the culprit.

> It works fine for me. I bet you could improve more by hitting the centre of the face with the correct face/path and right swing speed and this would trump any difference there is between ball choice today. Is the tour ball better? Sure but when chops that miss the target 50% of the time (possibly more) anyways are blaming it all on the crappy ball I have my doubts.

I find the middle of the face plenty and as a single digit HC who shoots consistently in the 70s I feel I can usually find the culprit when shots start randomly flying 20+ yards over their intended target. My swing speed is my swing speed and I’m not gonna change it to accommodate a low performance ball that doesn’t spin but instead I’ll realize the ball is definitely not for me and move to a better ball.

jjfcpa · September 19, 2019

> @"North Butte" said:

> > @agolf1 said:

> > Is the tour ball better? Sure but when chops that miss the target 50% of the time (possibly more) anyways are blaming it all on the crappy ball I have my doubts.

>

> I would never blame "all" my bad shots on the golf ball. Or golf club. Or anything but me being a bad golfer. I played my best round in two years yesterday and still hit a couple of shots that were absolutely terrible for no reason other than me-suck-age.

>

> I play high-performance golf balls to avoid that one shot every round or two where I hit a shot as well as I can possibly hit it but a low-spin ball releases and runs off the back of the green. Whatever (slight) premium I pay for buying "Tour" balls is worth it even if it just avoids a handful of those shots per month.

>

> The comment quoted above is kind of like the inevitable guys that show up in any discussion of rangefinders. The comment is always something like, "You're probably going to mishit the shot by 10 or 20 yards most of the time anyway. Why does the exact distance matter". Of course the answer is, it matters because on the half dozen shots a round I do hit the proper distance, I want to end up near the hole!

Well said! Every golfer I know wants to play better than he/she currently is and if the ball can make a difference, then guess what, they will change balls.

jjfcpa · September 19, 2019

One of the balls singled out in the ball test was the Srixon AD333. I was playing 9 holes last night and found one on the course. What a coincidence because I can't find it on Srixon's website. The ball I found looked like it had been hit by a lawn mower... there was some slight damage to the cover, but I decided to hit it just to see what it felt like. Grabbed my 7 iron and gave it a whack. Felt really soft but launched nicely and carried pretty far. A little shorter than the Snell MTB-X that I play. Kept thinking about how soft it felt. Might be worth a look... is it sold under another description in the USA or is it retail only?

tsecor · September 19, 2019

damage to the cover and it flew far and felt soft? weird> @jjfcpa said:

> One of the balls singled out in the ball test was the Srixon AD333. I was playing 9 holes last night and found one on the course. What a coincidence because I can't find it on Srixon's website. The ball I found looked like it had been hit by a lawn mower... there was some slight damage to the cover, but I decided to hit it just to see what it felt like. Grabbed my 7 iron and gave it a whack. Felt really soft but launched nicely and carried pretty far. A little shorter than the Snell MTB-X that I play. Kept thinking about how soft it felt. Might be worth a look... is it sold under another description in the USA or is it retail only?

Maximilian · September 19, 2019

> @jjfcpa said:

> One of the balls singled out in the ball test was the Srixon AD333. I was playing 9 holes last night and found one on the course. What a coincidence because I can't find it on Srixon's website. The ball I found looked like it had been hit by a lawn mower... there was some slight damage to the cover, but I decided to hit it just to see what it felt like. Grabbed my 7 iron and gave it a whack. Felt really soft but launched nicely and carried pretty far. A little shorter than the Snell MTB-X that I play. Kept thinking about how soft it felt. Might be worth a look... is it sold under another description in the USA or is it retail only?

The AD333 and AD333 Tour are called the Q Star and Q Star Tour in America.

Titleist_PT23 · September 19, 2019

> @BiggErn said:

> > @agolf1 said:

> > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > > > > > @Andygolderson said:

> > > > > > > > > I like the feeling of the soft balls and the control you can have over them in the green.

> > > > > > > > I play the SuperSoft a lot, and like it for all parts of my game. However, I've always wondered if the sound/feel of this ball around the green makes it seem like you can do more with it (vs. what you actually can do / how it performs)? I mean it doesn't spin more than a ProV (which may be good or bad for total short game performance), and I'm guessing spin is what people usually associate with "control" (whether or not they can actually control the spin consistently). I do think these balls (SuperSoft or Soft Feel) grab a bit more than the pure two-piece distance balls like a Velocity if that's what your comparison is to.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Not only does it not spin around the green it doesn’t anywhere else either. If you have any kind of swing speed it’s almost impossible to control short irons and wedges due to the extreme lack of spin. I’m not talking about it carrying the correct distance and just not stopping but rather flying forever over the target.

> > > > > > I"m pretty moderate speed. I hit a 36 degree iron about 150 yards carry. Personally, I've found that these type of balls stop nearly as quick as urethane balls on full iron shots. I believe it is because the SuperSofts fly higher but I don't know for sure.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I believe most people here think they have a lot more control over the ball than they actually do. You probably have a nice 10 foot circle as your target from 175-200 yards, right? Rarely outside of that I'd guess. For me, there is 5-10 yards of variation on reasonably well struck shots from 5-iron to GW. Exact contact location on the face, loft delivered at impact, how the ball is sitting, wind, elevation, air temperature, etc. I don't have the ability to judge all of that so precisely, but I'm probably not as good as you are.

> > > > >

> > > > > Either you didn’t comprehend what I said or you assume I hit a short iron or wedge 175-200. Don't know if I’m better than you or not but I’m good enough to know I don’t need short irons and wedges airmailing greens where they normally wouldn’t.

> > > > My point is you may airmail the green for any number of reasons that are due to you. Everyone blames the ball, the clubhead design, etc. Maybe some types of equipment aren't as consistent but I'd bet more than half the variation is user error (i.e. people think they have a pro like swing but they suck).

> > >

> > > Lol ok. I doubt any rational person doesn’t realize there’s always gonna be some degree of dispersion and don’t make a judgement based on one instance. Maybe I’m better than I thought to be able to diagnose a marshmallow ball with virtually no spin as the culprit.

> > It works fine for me. I bet you could improve more by hitting the centre of the face with the correct face/path and right swing speed and this would trump any difference there is between ball choice today. Is the tour ball better? Sure but when chops that miss the target 50% of the time (possibly more) anyways are blaming it all on the crappy ball I have my doubts.

>

> I find the middle of the face plenty and as a single digit HC who shoots consistently in the 70s I feel I can usually find the culprit when shots start randomly flying 20+ yards over their intended target. My swing speed is my swing speed and I’m not gonna change it to accommodate a low performance ball that doesn’t spin but instead I’ll realize the ball is definitely not for me and move to a better ball.

WOW, WOW, WOW!!! I'm a single digit handicap too and I've shot in the 70s with the equivalent of a range ball (2-piece rock). News flash for you - when a ball goes 20+ yards over the intended target it wasn't just the ball. Something else happened; you swing, wind, distance wasn't what you thought it was etc. No doubt that ball may have jumped and been exaggerated by the a specific ball's characteristics. But it's not like the ProV1 was going to be 20+ yards shorter right next to the hole. Thanks for your post - you just proved my point on how people at this level cannot estimate what is going on with their swing/other factors vs. just the equipment.

BiggErn · September 19, 2019

> @agolf1 said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > @Andygolderson said:

> > > > > > > > > > I like the feeling of the soft balls and the control you can have over them in the green.

> > > > > > > > > I play the SuperSoft a lot, and like it for all parts of my game. However, I've always wondered if the sound/feel of this ball around the green makes it seem like you can do more with it (vs. what you actually can do / how it performs)? I mean it doesn't spin more than a ProV (which may be good or bad for total short game performance), and I'm guessing spin is what people usually associate with "control" (whether or not they can actually control the spin consistently). I do think these balls (SuperSoft or Soft Feel) grab a bit more than the pure two-piece distance balls like a Velocity if that's what your comparison is to.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Not only does it not spin around the green it doesn’t anywhere else either. If you have any kind of swing speed it’s almost impossible to control short irons and wedges due to the extreme lack of spin. I’m not talking about it carrying the correct distance and just not stopping but rather flying forever over the target.

> > > > > > > I"m pretty moderate speed. I hit a 36 degree iron about 150 yards carry. Personally, I've found that these type of balls stop nearly as quick as urethane balls on full iron shots. I believe it is because the SuperSofts fly higher but I don't know for sure.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I believe most people here think they have a lot more control over the ball than they actually do. You probably have a nice 10 foot circle as your target from 175-200 yards, right? Rarely outside of that I'd guess. For me, there is 5-10 yards of variation on reasonably well struck shots from 5-iron to GW. Exact contact location on the face, loft delivered at impact, how the ball is sitting, wind, elevation, air temperature, etc. I don't have the ability to judge all of that so precisely, but I'm probably not as good as you are.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Either you didn’t comprehend what I said or you assume I hit a short iron or wedge 175-200. Don't know if I’m better than you or not but I’m good enough to know I don’t need short irons and wedges airmailing greens where they normally wouldn’t.

> > > > > My point is you may airmail the green for any number of reasons that are due to you. Everyone blames the ball, the clubhead design, etc. Maybe some types of equipment aren't as consistent but I'd bet more than half the variation is user error (i.e. people think they have a pro like swing but they suck).

> > > >

> > > > Lol ok. I doubt any rational person doesn’t realize there’s always gonna be some degree of dispersion and don’t make a judgement based on one instance. Maybe I’m better than I thought to be able to diagnose a marshmallow ball with virtually no spin as the culprit.

> > > It works fine for me. I bet you could improve more by hitting the centre of the face with the correct face/path and right swing speed and this would trump any difference there is between ball choice today. Is the tour ball better? Sure but when chops that miss the target 50% of the time (possibly more) anyways are blaming it all on the crappy ball I have my doubts.

> >

> > I find the middle of the face plenty and as a single digit HC who shoots consistently in the 70s I feel I can usually find the culprit when shots start randomly flying 20+ yards over their intended target. My swing speed is my swing speed and I’m not gonna change it to accommodate a low performance ball that doesn’t spin but instead I’ll realize the ball is definitely not for me and move to a better ball.

> WOW, WOW, WOW!!! I'm a single digit handicap too and I've shot in the 70s with the equivalent of a range ball (2-piece rock). News flash for you - when a ball goes 20+ yards over the intended target it wasn't just the ball. Something else happened; you swing, wind, distance wasn't what you thought it was etc. No doubt that ball may have jumped and been exaggerated by the a specific ball's characteristics. But it's not like the ProV1 was going to be 20+ yards shorter right next to the hole. Thanks for your post - you just proved my point on how people at this level cannot estimate what is going on with their swing/other factors vs. just the equipment.

You must be a senior citizen. You’re right though something else did happen, I tried a marshmallow ball that had virtually no spin and it carried forever multiple times. The ProV1 analogy is asinine and certainly proves a point.

Titleist_PT23 · September 19, 2019

> @BiggErn said:

> > @agolf1 said:

> > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > > > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @Andygolderson said:

> > > > > > > > > > > I like the feeling of the soft balls and the control you can have over them in the green.

> > > > > > > > > > I play the SuperSoft a lot, and like it for all parts of my game. However, I've always wondered if the sound/feel of this ball around the green makes it seem like you can do more with it (vs. what you actually can do / how it performs)? I mean it doesn't spin more than a ProV (which may be good or bad for total short game performance), and I'm guessing spin is what people usually associate with "control" (whether or not they can actually control the spin consistently). I do think these balls (SuperSoft or Soft Feel) grab a bit more than the pure two-piece distance balls like a Velocity if that's what your comparison is to.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Not only does it not spin around the green it doesn’t anywhere else either. If you have any kind of swing speed it’s almost impossible to control short irons and wedges due to the extreme lack of spin. I’m not talking about it carrying the correct distance and just not stopping but rather flying forever over the target.

> > > > > > > > I"m pretty moderate speed. I hit a 36 degree iron about 150 yards carry. Personally, I've found that these type of balls stop nearly as quick as urethane balls on full iron shots. I believe it is because the SuperSofts fly higher but I don't know for sure.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I believe most people here think they have a lot more control over the ball than they actually do. You probably have a nice 10 foot circle as your target from 175-200 yards, right? Rarely outside of that I'd guess. For me, there is 5-10 yards of variation on reasonably well struck shots from 5-iron to GW. Exact contact location on the face, loft delivered at impact, how the ball is sitting, wind, elevation, air temperature, etc. I don't have the ability to judge all of that so precisely, but I'm probably not as good as you are.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Either you didn’t comprehend what I said or you assume I hit a short iron or wedge 175-200. Don't know if I’m better than you or not but I’m good enough to know I don’t need short irons and wedges airmailing greens where they normally wouldn’t.

> > > > > > My point is you may airmail the green for any number of reasons that are due to you. Everyone blames the ball, the clubhead design, etc. Maybe some types of equipment aren't as consistent but I'd bet more than half the variation is user error (i.e. people think they have a pro like swing but they suck).

> > > > >

> > > > > Lol ok. I doubt any rational person doesn’t realize there’s always gonna be some degree of dispersion and don’t make a judgement based on one instance. Maybe I’m better than I thought to be able to diagnose a marshmallow ball with virtually no spin as the culprit.

> > > > It works fine for me. I bet you could improve more by hitting the centre of the face with the correct face/path and right swing speed and this would trump any difference there is between ball choice today. Is the tour ball better? Sure but when chops that miss the target 50% of the time (possibly more) anyways are blaming it all on the crappy ball I have my doubts.

> > >

> > > I find the middle of the face plenty and as a single digit HC who shoots consistently in the 70s I feel I can usually find the culprit when shots start randomly flying 20+ yards over their intended target. My swing speed is my swing speed and I’m not gonna change it to accommodate a low performance ball that doesn’t spin but instead I’ll realize the ball is definitely not for me and move to a better ball.

> > WOW, WOW, WOW!!! I'm a single digit handicap too and I've shot in the 70s with the equivalent of a range ball (2-piece rock). News flash for you - when a ball goes 20+ yards over the intended target it wasn't just the ball. Something else happened; you swing, wind, distance wasn't what you thought it was etc. No doubt that ball may have jumped and been exaggerated by the a specific ball's characteristics. But it's not like the ProV1 was going to be 20+ yards shorter right next to the hole. Thanks for your post - you just proved my point on how people at this level cannot estimate what is going on with their swing/other factors vs. just the equipment.

>

> You must be a senior citizen. You’re right though something else did happen, I tried a marshmallow ball that had virtually no spin and it carried forever multiple times. The ProV1 analogy is asinine and certainly proves a point.

Entirely wrong on my age. Shows how dumb you are here too.

The ProV analogy is perfect. Same swing and conditions and it's not 20+ yards shorter than the Supersoft. You swing or miscalculation of something else made it seem like it went farther. Again, I'm not saying the SuperSoft doesn't jump or jump more but 20+ yards was not just the ball.

BiggErn · September 19, 2019

> @agolf1 said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @Andygolderson said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > I like the feeling of the soft balls and the control you can have over them in the green.

> > > > > > > > > > > I play the SuperSoft a lot, and like it for all parts of my game. However, I've always wondered if the sound/feel of this ball around the green makes it seem like you can do more with it (vs. what you actually can do / how it performs)? I mean it doesn't spin more than a ProV (which may be good or bad for total short game performance), and I'm guessing spin is what people usually associate with "control" (whether or not they can actually control the spin consistently). I do think these balls (SuperSoft or Soft Feel) grab a bit more than the pure two-piece distance balls like a Velocity if that's what your comparison is to.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Not only does it not spin around the green it doesn’t anywhere else either. If you have any kind of swing speed it’s almost impossible to control short irons and wedges due to the extreme lack of spin. I’m not talking about it carrying the correct distance and just not stopping but rather flying forever over the target.

> > > > > > > > > I"m pretty moderate speed. I hit a 36 degree iron about 150 yards carry. Personally, I've found that these type of balls stop nearly as quick as urethane balls on full iron shots. I believe it is because the SuperSofts fly higher but I don't know for sure.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I believe most people here think they have a lot more control over the ball than they actually do. You probably have a nice 10 foot circle as your target from 175-200 yards, right? Rarely outside of that I'd guess. For me, there is 5-10 yards of variation on reasonably well struck shots from 5-iron to GW. Exact contact location on the face, loft delivered at impact, how the ball is sitting, wind, elevation, air temperature, etc. I don't have the ability to judge all of that so precisely, but I'm probably not as good as you are.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Either you didn’t comprehend what I said or you assume I hit a short iron or wedge 175-200. Don't know if I’m better than you or not but I’m good enough to know I don’t need short irons and wedges airmailing greens where they normally wouldn’t.

> > > > > > > My point is you may airmail the green for any number of reasons that are due to you. Everyone blames the ball, the clubhead design, etc. Maybe some types of equipment aren't as consistent but I'd bet more than half the variation is user error (i.e. people think they have a pro like swing but they suck).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Lol ok. I doubt any rational person doesn’t realize there’s always gonna be some degree of dispersion and don’t make a judgement based on one instance. Maybe I’m better than I thought to be able to diagnose a marshmallow ball with virtually no spin as the culprit.

> > > > > It works fine for me. I bet you could improve more by hitting the centre of the face with the correct face/path and right swing speed and this would trump any difference there is between ball choice today. Is the tour ball better? Sure but when chops that miss the target 50% of the time (possibly more) anyways are blaming it all on the crappy ball I have my doubts.

> > > >

> > > > I find the middle of the face plenty and as a single digit HC who shoots consistently in the 70s I feel I can usually find the culprit when shots start randomly flying 20+ yards over their intended target. My swing speed is my swing speed and I’m not gonna change it to accommodate a low performance ball that doesn’t spin but instead I’ll realize the ball is definitely not for me and move to a better ball.

> > > WOW, WOW, WOW!!! I'm a single digit handicap too and I've shot in the 70s with the equivalent of a range ball (2-piece rock). News flash for you - when a ball goes 20+ yards over the intended target it wasn't just the ball. Something else happened; you swing, wind, distance wasn't what you thought it was etc. No doubt that ball may have jumped and been exaggerated by the a specific ball's characteristics. But it's not like the ProV1 was going to be 20+ yards shorter right next to the hole. Thanks for your post - you just proved my point on how people at this level cannot estimate what is going on with their swing/other factors vs. just the equipment.

> >

> > You must be a senior citizen. You’re right though something else did happen, I tried a marshmallow ball that had virtually no spin and it carried forever multiple times. The ProV1 analogy is asinine and certainly proves a point.

> Entirely wrong on my age. Shows how dumb you are here too.

>

> The ProV analogy is perfect. Same swing and conditions and it's not 20+ yards shorter than the Supersoft. You swing or miscalculation of something else made it seem like it went farther. Again, I'm not saying the SuperSoft doesn't jump or jump more but 20+ yards was not just the ball.

Lol ?

Titleist_PT23 · September 19, 2019

> @BiggErn said:

> > @agolf1 said:

> > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > > > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @Andygolderson said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I like the feeling of the soft balls and the control you can have over them in the green.

> > > > > > > > > > > > I play the SuperSoft a lot, and like it for all parts of my game. However, I've always wondered if the sound/feel of this ball around the green makes it seem like you can do more with it (vs. what you actually can do / how it performs)? I mean it doesn't spin more than a ProV (which may be good or bad for total short game performance), and I'm guessing spin is what people usually associate with "control" (whether or not they can actually control the spin consistently). I do think these balls (SuperSoft or Soft Feel) grab a bit more than the pure two-piece distance balls like a Velocity if that's what your comparison is to.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Not only does it not spin around the green it doesn’t anywhere else either. If you have any kind of swing speed it’s almost impossible to control short irons and wedges due to the extreme lack of spin. I’m not talking about it carrying the correct distance and just not stopping but rather flying forever over the target.

> > > > > > > > > > I"m pretty moderate speed. I hit a 36 degree iron about 150 yards carry. Personally, I've found that these type of balls stop nearly as quick as urethane balls on full iron shots. I believe it is because the SuperSofts fly higher but I don't know for sure.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I believe most people here think they have a lot more control over the ball than they actually do. You probably have a nice 10 foot circle as your target from 175-200 yards, right? Rarely outside of that I'd guess. For me, there is 5-10 yards of variation on reasonably well struck shots from 5-iron to GW. Exact contact location on the face, loft delivered at impact, how the ball is sitting, wind, elevation, air temperature, etc. I don't have the ability to judge all of that so precisely, but I'm probably not as good as you are.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Either you didn’t comprehend what I said or you assume I hit a short iron or wedge 175-200. Don't know if I’m better than you or not but I’m good enough to know I don’t need short irons and wedges airmailing greens where they normally wouldn’t.

> > > > > > > > My point is you may airmail the green for any number of reasons that are due to you. Everyone blames the ball, the clubhead design, etc. Maybe some types of equipment aren't as consistent but I'd bet more than half the variation is user error (i.e. people think they have a pro like swing but they suck).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Lol ok. I doubt any rational person doesn’t realize there’s always gonna be some degree of dispersion and don’t make a judgement based on one instance. Maybe I’m better than I thought to be able to diagnose a marshmallow ball with virtually no spin as the culprit.

> > > > > > It works fine for me. I bet you could improve more by hitting the centre of the face with the correct face/path and right swing speed and this would trump any difference there is between ball choice today. Is the tour ball better? Sure but when chops that miss the target 50% of the time (possibly more) anyways are blaming it all on the crappy ball I have my doubts.

> > > > >

> > > > > I find the middle of the face plenty and as a single digit HC who shoots consistently in the 70s I feel I can usually find the culprit when shots start randomly flying 20+ yards over their intended target. My swing speed is my swing speed and I’m not gonna change it to accommodate a low performance ball that doesn’t spin but instead I’ll realize the ball is definitely not for me and move to a better ball.

> > > > WOW, WOW, WOW!!! I'm a single digit handicap too and I've shot in the 70s with the equivalent of a range ball (2-piece rock). News flash for you - when a ball goes 20+ yards over the intended target it wasn't just the ball. Something else happened; you swing, wind, distance wasn't what you thought it was etc. No doubt that ball may have jumped and been exaggerated by the a specific ball's characteristics. But it's not like the ProV1 was going to be 20+ yards shorter right next to the hole. Thanks for your post - you just proved my point on how people at this level cannot estimate what is going on with their swing/other factors vs. just the equipment.

> > >

> > > You must be a senior citizen. You’re right though something else did happen, I tried a marshmallow ball that had virtually no spin and it carried forever multiple times. The ProV1 analogy is asinine and certainly proves a point.

> > Entirely wrong on my age. Shows how dumb you are here too.

> >

> > The ProV analogy is perfect. Same swing and conditions and it's not 20+ yards shorter than the Supersoft. You swing or miscalculation of something else made it seem like it went farther. Again, I'm not saying the SuperSoft doesn't jump or jump more but 20+ yards was not just the ball.

>

> Lol ?

Lol. BiggErn = Big Blow Hard. Many have seem it in the blades/cb threads.

BiggErn · September 20, 2019

> @agolf1 said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Andygolderson said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I like the feeling of the soft balls and the control you can have over them in the green.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I play the SuperSoft a lot, and like it for all parts of my game. However, I've always wondered if the sound/feel of this ball around the green makes it seem like you can do more with it (vs. what you actually can do / how it performs)? I mean it doesn't spin more than a ProV (which may be good or bad for total short game performance), and I'm guessing spin is what people usually associate with "control" (whether or not they can actually control the spin consistently). I do think these balls (SuperSoft or Soft Feel) grab a bit more than the pure two-piece distance balls like a Velocity if that's what your comparison is to.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Not only does it not spin around the green it doesn’t anywhere else either. If you have any kind of swing speed it’s almost impossible to control short irons and wedges due to the extreme lack of spin. I’m not talking about it carrying the correct distance and just not stopping but rather flying forever over the target.

> > > > > > > > > > > I"m pretty moderate speed. I hit a 36 degree iron about 150 yards carry. Personally, I've found that these type of balls stop nearly as quick as urethane balls on full iron shots. I believe it is because the SuperSofts fly higher but I don't know for sure.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I believe most people here think they have a lot more control over the ball than they actually do. You probably have a nice 10 foot circle as your target from 175-200 yards, right? Rarely outside of that I'd guess. For me, there is 5-10 yards of variation on reasonably well struck shots from 5-iron to GW. Exact contact location on the face, loft delivered at impact, how the ball is sitting, wind, elevation, air temperature, etc. I don't have the ability to judge all of that so precisely, but I'm probably not as good as you are.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Either you didn’t comprehend what I said or you assume I hit a short iron or wedge 175-200. Don't know if I’m better than you or not but I’m good enough to know I don’t need short irons and wedges airmailing greens where they normally wouldn’t.

> > > > > > > > > My point is you may airmail the green for any number of reasons that are due to you. Everyone blames the ball, the clubhead design, etc. Maybe some types of equipment aren't as consistent but I'd bet more than half the variation is user error (i.e. people think they have a pro like swing but they suck).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Lol ok. I doubt any rational person doesn’t realize there’s always gonna be some degree of dispersion and don’t make a judgement based on one instance. Maybe I’m better than I thought to be able to diagnose a marshmallow ball with virtually no spin as the culprit.

> > > > > > > It works fine for me. I bet you could improve more by hitting the centre of the face with the correct face/path and right swing speed and this would trump any difference there is between ball choice today. Is the tour ball better? Sure but when chops that miss the target 50% of the time (possibly more) anyways are blaming it all on the crappy ball I have my doubts.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I find the middle of the face plenty and as a single digit HC who shoots consistently in the 70s I feel I can usually find the culprit when shots start randomly flying 20+ yards over their intended target. My swing speed is my swing speed and I’m not gonna change it to accommodate a low performance ball that doesn’t spin but instead I’ll realize the ball is definitely not for me and move to a better ball.

> > > > > WOW, WOW, WOW!!! I'm a single digit handicap too and I've shot in the 70s with the equivalent of a range ball (2-piece rock). News flash for you - when a ball goes 20+ yards over the intended target it wasn't just the ball. Something else happened; you swing, wind, distance wasn't what you thought it was etc. No doubt that ball may have jumped and been exaggerated by the a specific ball's characteristics. But it's not like the ProV1 was going to be 20+ yards shorter right next to the hole. Thanks for your post - you just proved my point on how people at this level cannot estimate what is going on with their swing/other factors vs. just the equipment.

> > > >

> > > > You must be a senior citizen. You’re right though something else did happen, I tried a marshmallow ball that had virtually no spin and it carried forever multiple times. The ProV1 analogy is asinine and certainly proves a point.

> > > Entirely wrong on my age. Shows how dumb you are here too.

> > >

> > > The ProV analogy is perfect. Same swing and conditions and it's not 20+ yards shorter than the Supersoft. You swing or miscalculation of something else made it seem like it went farther. Again, I'm not saying the SuperSoft doesn't jump or jump more but 20+ yards was not just the ball.

> >

> > Lol ?

> Lol. BiggErn = Big Blow Hard. Many have seem it in the blades/cb threads.

Lol. It makes sense now. You’re as delusional as the double digit HC “blades just work for my swing” guy. Lol.

lenman73 · September 20, 2019

> @agolf1 said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Andygolderson said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I like the feeling of the soft balls and the control you can have over them in the green.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I play the SuperSoft a lot, and like it for all parts of my game. However, I've always wondered if the sound/feel of this ball around the green makes it seem like you can do more with it (vs. what you actually can do / how it performs)? I mean it doesn't spin more than a ProV (which may be good or bad for total short game performance), and I'm guessing spin is what people usually associate with "control" (whether or not they can actually control the spin consistently). I do think these balls (SuperSoft or Soft Feel) grab a bit more than the pure two-piece distance balls like a Velocity if that's what your comparison is to.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Not only does it not spin around the green it doesn’t anywhere else either. If you have any kind of swing speed it’s almost impossible to control short irons and wedges due to the extreme lack of spin. I’m not talking about it carrying the correct distance and just not stopping but rather flying forever over the target.

> > > > > > > > > > > I"m pretty moderate speed. I hit a 36 degree iron about 150 yards carry. Personally, I've found that these type of balls stop nearly as quick as urethane balls on full iron shots. I believe it is because the SuperSofts fly higher but I don't know for sure.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I believe most people here think they have a lot more control over the ball than they actually do. You probably have a nice 10 foot circle as your target from 175-200 yards, right? Rarely outside of that I'd guess. For me, there is 5-10 yards of variation on reasonably well struck shots from 5-iron to GW. Exact contact location on the face, loft delivered at impact, how the ball is sitting, wind, elevation, air temperature, etc. I don't have the ability to judge all of that so precisely, but I'm probably not as good as you are.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Either you didn’t comprehend what I said or you assume I hit a short iron or wedge 175-200. Don't know if I’m better than you or not but I’m good enough to know I don’t need short irons and wedges airmailing greens where they normally wouldn’t.

> > > > > > > > > My point is you may airmail the green for any number of reasons that are due to you. Everyone blames the ball, the clubhead design, etc. Maybe some types of equipment aren't as consistent but I'd bet more than half the variation is user error (i.e. people think they have a pro like swing but they suck).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Lol ok. I doubt any rational person doesn’t realize there’s always gonna be some degree of dispersion and don’t make a judgement based on one instance. Maybe I’m better than I thought to be able to diagnose a marshmallow ball with virtually no spin as the culprit.

> > > > > > > It works fine for me. I bet you could improve more by hitting the centre of the face with the correct face/path and right swing speed and this would trump any difference there is between ball choice today. Is the tour ball better? Sure but when chops that miss the target 50% of the time (possibly more) anyways are blaming it all on the crappy ball I have my doubts.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I find the middle of the face plenty and as a single digit HC who shoots consistently in the 70s I feel I can usually find the culprit when shots start randomly flying 20+ yards over their intended target. My swing speed is my swing speed and I’m not gonna change it to accommodate a low performance ball that doesn’t spin but instead I’ll realize the ball is definitely not for me and move to a better ball.

> > > > > WOW, WOW, WOW!!! I'm a single digit handicap too and I've shot in the 70s with the equivalent of a range ball (2-piece rock). News flash for you - when a ball goes 20+ yards over the intended target it wasn't just the ball. Something else happened; you swing, wind, distance wasn't what you thought it was etc. No doubt that ball may have jumped and been exaggerated by the a specific ball's characteristics. But it's not like the ProV1 was going to be 20+ yards shorter right next to the hole. Thanks for your post - you just proved my point on how people at this level cannot estimate what is going on with their swing/other factors vs. just the equipment.

> > > >

> > > > You must be a senior citizen. You’re right though something else did happen, I tried a marshmallow ball that had virtually no spin and it carried forever multiple times. The ProV1 analogy is asinine and certainly proves a point.

> > > Entirely wrong on my age. Shows how dumb you are here too.

> > >

> > > The ProV analogy is perfect. Same swing and conditions and it's not 20+ yards shorter than the Supersoft. You swing or miscalculation of something else made it seem like it went farther. Again, I'm not saying the SuperSoft doesn't jump or jump more but 20+ yards was not just the ball.

> >

> > Lol ?

> Lol. BiggErn = Big Blow Hard. Many have seem it in the blades/cb threads.

Ern has proved all he is is a contrarian. A blade don't work for him so they can't for anyone. A cheap ball don't work for him, the master ball striker he is so they are stupid for anyone else to use. Weird I just hit my longest drives for the season on 2 different holes for that course and shot a 39 on league night with a trusoft. Odd I never had one shoot 20+ yards over a green. I must not achieved tour ball striker status yet like Ern. So the fact people complained about getting hot spots and fliers from some taylormade irons (taylormade spokesman admitted to fixing the problem in the next release) get shot down and called crazy. But changing a ball causes 20+ yard fliers now. I have learned so much in this thread. Like how anonymous people on the internet tell other people something won't work, even though it does.

Titleist_PT23 · September 20, 2019

> @BiggErn said:

> > @agolf1 said:

> > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > > > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Andygolderson said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I like the feeling of the soft balls and the control you can have over them in the green.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I play the SuperSoft a lot, and like it for all parts of my game. However, I've always wondered if the sound/feel of this ball around the green makes it seem like you can do more with it (vs. what you actually can do / how it performs)? I mean it doesn't spin more than a ProV (which may be good or bad for total short game performance), and I'm guessing spin is what people usually associate with "control" (whether or not they can actually control the spin consistently). I do think these balls (SuperSoft or Soft Feel) grab a bit more than the pure two-piece distance balls like a Velocity if that's what your comparison is to.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Not only does it not spin around the green it doesn’t anywhere else either. If you have any kind of swing speed it’s almost impossible to control short irons and wedges due to the extreme lack of spin. I’m not talking about it carrying the correct distance and just not stopping but rather flying forever over the target.

> > > > > > > > > > > > I"m pretty moderate speed. I hit a 36 degree iron about 150 yards carry. Personally, I've found that these type of balls stop nearly as quick as urethane balls on full iron shots. I believe it is because the SuperSofts fly higher but I don't know for sure.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I believe most people here think they have a lot more control over the ball than they actually do. You probably have a nice 10 foot circle as your target from 175-200 yards, right? Rarely outside of that I'd guess. For me, there is 5-10 yards of variation on reasonably well struck shots from 5-iron to GW. Exact contact location on the face, loft delivered at impact, how the ball is sitting, wind, elevation, air temperature, etc. I don't have the ability to judge all of that so precisely, but I'm probably not as good as you are.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Either you didn’t comprehend what I said or you assume I hit a short iron or wedge 175-200. Don't know if I’m better than you or not but I’m good enough to know I don’t need short irons and wedges airmailing greens where they normally wouldn’t.

> > > > > > > > > > My point is you may airmail the green for any number of reasons that are due to you. Everyone blames the ball, the clubhead design, etc. Maybe some types of equipment aren't as consistent but I'd bet more than half the variation is user error (i.e. people think they have a pro like swing but they suck).

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Lol ok. I doubt any rational person doesn’t realize there’s always gonna be some degree of dispersion and don’t make a judgement based on one instance. Maybe I’m better than I thought to be able to diagnose a marshmallow ball with virtually no spin as the culprit.

> > > > > > > > It works fine for me. I bet you could improve more by hitting the centre of the face with the correct face/path and right swing speed and this would trump any difference there is between ball choice today. Is the tour ball better? Sure but when chops that miss the target 50% of the time (possibly more) anyways are blaming it all on the crappy ball I have my doubts.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I find the middle of the face plenty and as a single digit HC who shoots consistently in the 70s I feel I can usually find the culprit when shots start randomly flying 20+ yards over their intended target. My swing speed is my swing speed and I’m not gonna change it to accommodate a low performance ball that doesn’t spin but instead I’ll realize the ball is definitely not for me and move to a better ball.

> > > > > > WOW, WOW, WOW!!! I'm a single digit handicap too and I've shot in the 70s with the equivalent of a range ball (2-piece rock). News flash for you - when a ball goes 20+ yards over the intended target it wasn't just the ball. Something else happened; you swing, wind, distance wasn't what you thought it was etc. No doubt that ball may have jumped and been exaggerated by the a specific ball's characteristics. But it's not like the ProV1 was going to be 20+ yards shorter right next to the hole. Thanks for your post - you just proved my point on how people at this level cannot estimate what is going on with their swing/other factors vs. just the equipment.

> > > > >

> > > > > You must be a senior citizen. You’re right though something else did happen, I tried a marshmallow ball that had virtually no spin and it carried forever multiple times. The ProV1 analogy is asinine and certainly proves a point.

> > > > Entirely wrong on my age. Shows how dumb you are here too.

> > > >

> > > > The ProV analogy is perfect. Same swing and conditions and it's not 20+ yards shorter than the Supersoft. You swing or miscalculation of something else made it seem like it went farther. Again, I'm not saying the SuperSoft doesn't jump or jump more but 20+ yards was not just the ball.

> > >

> > > Lol ?

> > Lol. BiggErn = Big Blow Hard. Many have seem it in the blades/cb threads.

>

> Lol. It makes sense now. You’re as delusional as the double digit HC “blades just work for my swing” guy. Lol.

I'm actually a CB supporter. Just seen you look as silly in those threads as you do here.

LOL, the handicap golfer who thinks his swing/strike isn't consistent enough to play MBs but thinks he has precise distance control with a certain kind of ball.

I give you 100 swings each with a Supersoft and your gamer ball. We'll rent a trackman and I'll bet you can find one Supersoft that goes 20+yards farther assuming same swing speed, dynamic loft, and smash. Tell me what you want to bet. Loser pays the travel expenses to meet up. If I win, I just want you to hold up a sign next to your mug saying "I was wrong."

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