Practice swing in a different bunker?

[lchang]

If my ball is in a bunker, I am allowed to take a practice swing (including making contact with the sand) in a different bunker, right? That seems to be what the rule says?

[Sawgrass]

> @lchang said:

> If my ball is in a bunker, I am allowed to take a practice swing (including making contact with the sand) in a different bunker, right? That seems to be what the rule says?

 

You may do so.

[SecondandGoal]

While legal, if anyone I was playing with ever took the time to walk to another bunker for a practice swing (and hopefully rake it out), I'd heckle them on every shot the rest of the round until they walked off the course.

[lchang]

Well, there's my question. I can imagine testing the surface of an adjacent bunker to get an idea of how much sand is in the bunkers / how hard packed the bunkers are today / etc. Or to just get some practice swings in with the kind of sand in the bunkers. Can't say I've ever seen someone do this, but it seems there's some "value" in doing so in certain situations.

[RickK]

Can someone help me with this one...please? From what I read here, it is ok to take practice swings in a different bunker. Where in the Rules can I find this?

[MountainKing]

I don't see how this would be helpful, if the bunker conditions are bad it's very rare that they're consistent from one bunker to another. This is one rule I wish they would change, if they can't force courses to keep bunkers at a certain standard they should let us take practice swings where we can see what we have or don't have for sand in a particular bunker.

[sui generis]

RickK, Rule 12 tells you what you may and may not do in **the** bunker when your ball is in **the** bunker.

[lchang]

> @MountainKing said:

> I don't see how this would be helpful, if the bunker conditions are bad it's very rare that they're consistent from one bunker to another. This is one rule I wish they would change, if they can't force courses to keep bunkers at a certain standard they should let us take practice swings where we can see what we have or don't have for sand in a particular bunker.

 

In my experience, when a greenside bunker has “no sand” in it, it’s generally true in all the greenside bunkers. If a bunker has new fluffy sand and hasn’t settled yet, that’s true of all of them on the course.

[MountainKing]

> @lchang said:

> > @MountainKing said:

> > I don't see how this would be helpful, if the bunker conditions are bad it's very rare that they're consistent from one bunker to another. This is one rule I wish they would change, if they can't force courses to keep bunkers at a certain standard they should let us take practice swings where we can see what we have or don't have for sand in a particular bunker.

>

> In my experience, when a greenside bunker has “no sand” in it, it’s generally true in all the greenside bunkers. If a bunker has new fluffy sand and hasn’t settled yet, that’s true of all of them on the course.

 

That's been my experience up until the last couple years. Now it seems like it's a total crap shoot. It seems in the Chicago area unless it's a private course, you really have no clue what you're getting anymore from bunker to bunker, hell some bunkers are totally different depending on what side you're on. It's very frustrating.

[antip]

> @Sawgrass said:

> > @lchang said:

> > If my ball is in a bunker, I am allowed to take a practice swing (including making contact with the sand) in a different bunker, right? That seems to be what the rule says?

>

> You may do so.

 

Agree. For the Rules Quiz buffs, this one was raised in this year's MGA quiz.

[bladehunter]

> @lchang said:

> > @MountainKing said:

> > I don't see how this would be helpful, if the bunker conditions are bad it's very rare that they're consistent from one bunker to another. This is one rule I wish they would change, if they can't force courses to keep bunkers at a certain standard they should let us take practice swings where we can see what we have or don't have for sand in a particular bunker.

>

> In my experience, when a greenside bunker has “no sand” in it, it’s generally true in all the greenside bunkers. If a bunker has new fluffy sand and hasn’t settled yet, that’s true of all of them on the course.

 

Come to my course. We have white sand , river sand , and sometimes no sand. All 3 on same hole. lol.

[bladehunter]

I’ll add. I don’t truly get the “ no sand “ deal. Have a couple regulars who shout it all the time after a poor shot. I think it’s poor technique more than sands fault. Come in shallow with speed. Stop chunking everything out from a steep AOA and the amount of sand will matter much less. You can clip a ball off of concrete cart path if you hit it right. For this reason I actually hate a fluffy bunker full of sand. You have much less control from that type lie. Give me wet hard packed sand any day.

[RickK]

> @"sui generis" said:

> RickK, Rule 12 tells you what you may and may not do in **the** bunker when your ball is in **the** bunker.

 

Ok, I guess I was looking for something that said you "could" do it. Instead, you can take a practice swing anywhere/everywhere EXCEPT...a bunker if your ball is in that bunker.

[antip]

> @RickK said:

> > @"sui generis" said:

> > RickK, Rule 12 tells you what you may and may not do in **the** bunker when your ball is in **the** bunker.

>

> Ok, I guess I was looking for something that said you "could" do it. Instead, you can take a practice swing anywhere/everywhere EXCEPT...a bunker if your ball is in that bunker.

 

The complication with that positive assurance is the exception you name may not be the only one - other unusual situations can arise with greater complexity. And RBs are extremely conscious of the fact that the current rules structure already commissions 300 exceptions.

[Newby]

> @RickK said:

> > @"sui generis" said:

> > RickK, Rule 12 tells you what you may and may not do in **the** bunker when your ball is in **the** bunker.

>

> Ok, I guess I was looking for something that said you "could" do it. Instead, you can take a practice swing anywhere/everywhere EXCEPT...a bunker if your ball is in that bunker.

 

I'm afraid that if the rules listed everything that you can or may do, the book require a few forests to be felled.

[SecondandGoal]

Getting a feel for the hardness of the sand, both on the surface and beneath, really isn't that hard. You're standing in it, just use your feet. Not too difficult to tell how firm the surface is, and a couple twists of the feet to settle them in will tell you what's below the surface.

[sui generis]

> @SecondandGoal said:

> Getting a feel for the hardness of the sand, both on the surface and beneath, really isn't that hard. You're standing in it, just use your feet. Not too difficult to tell how firm the surface is, and a couple twists of the feet to settle them in will tell you what's below the surface.

 

The concern here is the arcane.

[Mr. Bean]

> @antip said:

> > @RickK said:

> > > @"sui generis" said:

> > > RickK, Rule 12 tells you what you may and may not do in **the** bunker when your ball is in **the** bunker.

> >

> > Ok, I guess I was looking for something that said you "could" do it. Instead, you can take a practice swing anywhere/everywhere EXCEPT...a bunker if your ball is in that bunker.

>

> The complication with that positive assurance is the exception you name may not be the only one - other unusual situations can arise with greater complexity. And RBs are extremely conscious of the fact that the current rules structure already commissions 300 exceptions.

 

My only concern is who actually had that extra time to spend to count them...

[Mr. Bean]

> @"sui generis" said:

> > @SecondandGoal said:

> > Getting a feel for the hardness of the sand, both on the surface and beneath, really isn't that hard. You're standing in it, just use your feet. Not too difficult to tell how firm the surface is, and a couple twists of the feet to settle them in will tell you what's below the surface.

>

> The concern here is the arcane.

 

I don't get that. Could you use more simple language?

[Mr. Bean]

> @SecondandGoal said:

> Getting a feel for the hardness of the sand, both on the surface and beneath, really isn't that hard. You're standing in it, just use your feet. Not too difficult to tell how firm the surface is, and a couple twists of the feet to settle them in will tell you what's below the surface.

 

I have played golf more than 27 years and yet have not learned how to get that feel by digging my shoes into the sand. No pro I have interviewed on the issue has been able to tell me how to get that feel. From the physics point of view getting that feel is not even possible.

 

So, tell us your secret, how do you get that feel?

 

Just to be on the clear side, with that 'feel' I mean the 'feel' one gets when one actually strikes the sand. After all, if one could get that 'feel' by only digging one's feet into the sand the RBs would hardly feel that practice swings touching the sand should be forbidden. Or..?

[SecondandGoal]

> @"Mr. Bean" said:

> > @SecondandGoal said:

> > Getting a feel for the hardness of the sand, both on the surface and beneath, really isn't that hard. You're standing in it, just use your feet. Not too difficult to tell how firm the surface is, and a couple twists of the feet to settle them in will tell you what's below the surface.

>

> I have played golf more than 27 years and yet have not learned how to get that feel by digging my shoes into the sand. No pro I have interviewed on the issue has been able to tell me how to get that feel. From the physics point of view getting that feel is not even possible.

>

> So, tell us your secret, how do you get that feel?

>

> Just to be on the clear side, with that 'feel' I mean the 'feel' one gets when one actually strikes the sand. After all, if one could get that 'feel' by only digging one's feet into the sand the RBs would hardly feel that practice swings touching the sand should be forbidden. Or..?

 

General feel of how wet/dry/firm/soft the sand is both on the surface and underneath. If it's wetter/drier/softer/firmer under your feet, it will be wetter/drier/softer/firmer when you strike it with your wedge. Is it an exact indicator? No, it's a general indicator.

[Mr. Bean]

> @SecondandGoal said:

> > @"Mr. Bean" said:

> > > @SecondandGoal said:

> > > Getting a feel for the hardness of the sand, both on the surface and beneath, really isn't that hard. You're standing in it, just use your feet. Not too difficult to tell how firm the surface is, and a couple twists of the feet to settle them in will tell you what's below the surface.

> >

> > I have played golf more than 27 years and yet have not learned how to get that feel by digging my shoes into the sand. No pro I have interviewed on the issue has been able to tell me how to get that feel. From the physics point of view getting that feel is not even possible.

> >

> > So, tell us your secret, how do you get that feel?

> >

> > Just to be on the clear side, with that 'feel' I mean the 'feel' one gets when one actually strikes the sand. After all, if one could get that 'feel' by only digging one's feet into the sand the RBs would hardly feel that practice swings touching the sand should be forbidden. Or..?

>

> General feel of how wet/dry/firm/soft the sand is both on the surface and underneath. If it's wetter/drier/softer/firmer under your feet, it will be wetter/drier/softer/firmer when you strike it with your wedge. Is it an exact indicator? **No, it's a general indicator**.

 

That is what I suspected...

[antip]

> @"Mr. Bean" said:

> > @antip said:

> > > @RickK said:

> > > > @"sui generis" said:

> > > > RickK, Rule 12 tells you what you may and may not do in **the** bunker when your ball is in **the** bunker.

> > >

> > > Ok, I guess I was looking for something that said you "could" do it. Instead, you can take a practice swing anywhere/everywhere EXCEPT...a bunker if your ball is in that bunker.

> >

> > The complication with that positive assurance is the exception you name may not be the only one - other unusual situations can arise with greater complexity. And RBs are extremely conscious of the fact that the current rules structure already commissions 300 exceptions.

>

> My only concern is who actually had that extra time to spend to count them...

 

The USGA presenter I was exposed to (one of the re-write team) brought the number 299 with him to the Workshop.

[Mr. Bean]

> @antip said:

> > @"Mr. Bean" said:

> > > @antip said:

> > > > @RickK said:

> > > > > @"sui generis" said:

> > > > > RickK, Rule 12 tells you what you may and may not do in **the** bunker when your ball is in **the** bunker.

> > > >

> > > > Ok, I guess I was looking for something that said you "could" do it. Instead, you can take a practice swing anywhere/everywhere EXCEPT...a bunker if your ball is in that bunker.

> > >

> > > The complication with that positive assurance is the exception you name may not be the only one - other unusual situations can arise with greater complexity. And RBs are extremely conscious of the fact that the current rules structure already commissions 300 exceptions.

> >

> > My only concern is who actually had that extra time to spend to count them...

>

> The USGA presenter I was exposed to (one of the re-write team) brought the number 299 with him to the Workshop.

 

I bet that information was one of the highlights :D

[Mr. Bean]

I once again studied the explanations for Rule changes for 2019 and noticed that the reasons for not allowing practice swings touching sand in the bunker where the player's ball lies are among other things pace of play and to avoid having large amounts of sand deposited outside bunkers, especially greenside bunkers. This reasoning does not seem to fit well with the written Rule allowing practice swings made in other bunkers. I wonder if the Rule in question has been written the way it was really meant to be written.

[Moonlightgrm]

Practice swings in an adjacent bunker seems like bad etiquette.

[Mr. Bean]

Why?

[HappyGilmoresBoots]

> @Moonlightgrm said:

> Practice swings in an adjacent bunker seems like bad etiquette.

 

Yeah, this one feels strange to me. Even if it's perfectly within the rules, it seems incredibly cumbersome and clumsy at best to have to go to a whole new bunker for a practice shot; at worst, it reminds me of the schoolyard bullies who skirt the rules and toe the lines just because they can.

[antip]

> @HappyGilmoresBoots said:

> > @Moonlightgrm said:

> > Practice swings in an adjacent bunker seems like bad etiquette.

>

> Yeah, this one feels strange to me. Even if it's perfectly within the rules, it seems incredibly cumbersome and clumsy at best to have to go to a whole new bunker for a practice shot; at worst, it reminds me of the schoolyard bullies who skirt the rules and toe the lines just because they can.

 

If the player needs to traipse across the course to another bunker, I agree with the sentiments here. But if another bunker is alongside/very close, I see no problem with this as long as the player moves smartly and tidies up. If RBs saw any kind of mischief here, they would have prevented it.

[gsxrdn]

You may do so but it would not be pleasant to everyone in your group.