i'm going to transition to ball much farther forward on everything - any advice?

[jim rockford]

my last golf pro said play everything up.. butch harmon, who i think is the best high profile instructor in the world, says the same thing.

 

so i'm going to move to hitting with the ball further up. off my front heal. for wedges, it isn't necessarily that far forward mathematically as the stance is narrow.

 

i've used playing the ball back as a crutch. after i chunk shots, i move it back. somewhat works, but i am thinking it's a short-term band-aid and that it ultimately makes things worse.

 

2 last things i'd add,

 

1) i play where it's wet much of the year. so moving ball back and getting steeper and steeper doesn't seem right.... fred couples is from around here. and i think he's very flat and strong grip. and i remember a golf commentator saying that probably evolved from playing in wet conditions............. in dry, firm conditions, just about anything works as a basic hit, BUT that just obscures the fact you aren't making good contact.

 

2) playing the ball back in my stance, i seem to get very tired and sore hitting balls off plastic matts at the range...... playing the ball up (today), it seems like a piece of cake in both ways (not tired, nor sore)..... is playing the ball back = reverse C? and lots of pressure on back?

 

i was hoping others had done the same thing transition and might have advice....... gonna watch some videos to figure out exact ball position. i remember george knudson book had awesome chart for this. great, underrated book.

 

thx in advance!

[jim rockford]

sorry, i should ask. do people play the ball in the exact same (forward/back) spot relative to front foot for all clubs? i realize longer club will be further away.

 

thx again :)

[SEP1006]

Not quite 100% sure on this but I believe Nicklaus played every shot left of center. Generally in line with his left armpit / shirt logo.

[wagolfer7]

I think a lot of this depends on your definition on "back" of stance.

 

Only specialty shots need to be played towards your trail foot. Like super low punch shot.

 

Everything else should be between middle of stance and off the heel of the left foot.

 

I've notice that most am's like to put the ball in the back of their stance for better contact. This is because it puts your hands forward at address. When guys play the ball more forward in their stance, they lose that forward press. Just make sure you place your hands on the inside of your left thigh at address. This will get a forward shaft lean with the ball in the proper position.

[jut111]

Use upper body references and not your feet. Makes things much easier as stance width changes.

[Barfolomew]

Really cause I would advise the opposite... good luck with accuracy

[jholz]

I've always utilized the Hogan method - ball off left heel for Driver, ball in middle of stance for short irons and wedges. Everything else will be somewhere in between those two points.

[gators78]

Forget in relation to stance it's better to be in relation to the left arm pit. If that ball isn't behind the arm pit for irons....good luck.

 

Butch worked with Jeff Sluman and they talked about a forward position, if you check this photo I don't know how far "up" I'd consider this ball position.


 

[jim rockford]

thanks for the great responses, much appreciated :)

 

it does seem like "ball forward" needs to be well-defined, at very least in your own mind... the visualization is very important.

 

and hands forward seems to be key, as mentioned.

 

definitely, ball position, OOT, grip strength all tie in together........... so it'll need some moderate tweaking at least.... i think alot of HH's come OOT because if they didn't they'd push/slice the ball into oblivion with what feels like a good strike.....

 

thx again :)

[wfwp]

 

I have liked this presentation of ball position by Robin Symes. Obviously each person should adjust for their capabilities.

[fsusmith]

Whenever I put the ball forward, I stand a little further away from the ball. This allows me more room and helps with better contact. Good luck!

[Obee]

> @"jim rockford" said:

> my last golf pro said play everything up.. butch harmon, who i think is the best high profile instructor in the world, says the same thing.

>

> so i'm going to move to hitting with the ball further up. off my front heal. for wedges, it isn't necessarily that far forward mathematically as the stance is narrow.

>

> i've used playing the ball back as a crutch. after i chunk shots, i move it back. somewhat works, but i am thinking it's a short-term band-aid and that it ultimately makes things worse.

>

> 2 last things i'd add,

>

> 1) i play where it's wet much of the year. so moving ball back and getting steeper and steeper doesn't seem right.... fred couples is from around here. and i think he's very flat and strong grip. and i remember a golf commentator saying that probably evolved from playing in wet conditions............. in dry, firm conditions, just about anything works as a basic hit, BUT that just obscures the fact you aren't making good contact.

>

> 2) playing the ball back in my stance, i seem to get very tired and sore hitting balls off plastic matts at the range...... playing the ball up (today), it seems like a piece of cake in both ways (not tired, nor sore)..... is playing the ball back = reverse C? and lots of pressure on back?

>

> i was hoping others had done the same thing transition and might have advice....... gonna watch some videos to figure out exact ball position. i remember george knudson book had awesome chart for this. great, underrated book.

>

> thx in advance!

 

Yes, definitely have advice for you: During the first 10 rounds doing this, you need to play me a $100 nassau with 2-down auto-presses...

 

;-)

[Obee]

> @SEP1006 said:

> Not quite 100% sure on this but I believe Nicklaus played every shot left of center. Generally in line with his left armpit / shirt logo.

 

He 100% did NOT do this. Tons of video out there with the ball in the middle of his stance, or even back of center, depending on the shot.

 

It's one of the classic example of a pro saying he does one thing, and then video/photo evidence shows it not to be true. I'll see if I can dig up some video of Jack with the ball clearly NOT off the left heel/instep.

 

[LyinEye]

> @Obee said:

> > @SEP1006 said:

> > Not quite 100% sure on this but I believe Nicklaus played every shot left of center. Generally in line with his left armpit / shirt logo.

>

> He 100% did NOT do this. Tons of video out there with the ball in the middle of his stance, or even back of center, depending on the shot.

>

> It's one of the classic example of a pro saying he does one thing, and then video/photo evidence shows it not to be true. I'll see if I can dig up some video of Jack with the ball clearly NOT off the left heel/instep.

>

 

Depends on point of view, rotated stances can present odd optics.

[SEP1006]

> @"Ping's Duck" said:

> > @Obee said:

> > > @SEP1006 said:

> > > Not quite 100% sure on this but I believe Nicklaus played every shot left of center. Generally in line with his left armpit / shirt logo.

> >

> > He 100% did NOT do this. Tons of video out there with the ball in the middle of his stance, or even back of center, depending on the shot.

> >

> > It's one of the classic example of a pro saying he does one thing, and then video/photo evidence shows it not to be true. I'll see if I can dig up some video of Jack with the ball clearly NOT off the left heel/instep.

> >

>

> Depends on point of view, rotated stances can present odd optics.

 

 

 

Like I said not quite 100% sure. But seems like I remember him saying that in his Golf My Way video. Could be wrong and really doesn't matter either way. Just adding some input.

[jim rockford]

i think the comments earlier but about figuring out what is actually up vs. back and relating it to the pockets on your chest is good imagery........ it's like strength of grip. it's hard to figure out what neutral displays as, as different players will display their hands differently at address i.e. with strong grip, some will hold clubface square to open, whereas others will let it go a bit closed.

 

having caddied for alot of pga canada players, i do question how forward they play the ball. but certainly not towards the back or anything. but my gut feel sense is they play it further back that butch harmon suggests........ some of it probably depends on conditions. firmish conditions you can hit whatever you are most comfortable with. not necessarily optimal.

[Kevlar10]

My personal experience only but I moved the ball way up in my stance when I hit driver. It has made a world of difference. I can now adjust slightly and hit a draw (sometimes), straight, or a slight fade. As long as I keep my body from moving forward too early in my swing, I hit much better. I have also moved the ball up for my irons. The only time I move it back if if I want to keep a low trajectory with my irons.

I’m sure this doesn’t work for everyone but it works for me.

[larrybud]

Like anything in golf there are extremes, then there's the goldilocks zone where you get it really close to where you need it.

 

If "back" is meant by "farther back than middle" then by all means move it up, but you certainly can overdo it.

[MaineMariner]

When I start hitting terrible shots, it's usually because my ball position has drifted too far forward. This happens with every club in my bag, putter included. I think it must have something to do with my left-eye dominance, or something as the ball looks more centered than it really is. Having the ball too far forward causes me to do two things: (1) lurch forwards towards the target, which usually means I leave the clubface open and hit the ball right; or (2) on tee shots, particularly with a 3 wood or hybrid, hit the ball thin as I catch the ball too late in my swing arc. The latter produces an ugly knuckleball or wormburner.

 

I'm not really sure how to define "too far forward", though. I usually go with left breast or shirt logo as a good place for longer clubs and juuust ahead of middle for everything 7-iron and shorter.

[KMeloney]

I'm on the same mission of understanding, OP. With my too-far-back ball position, I've been hampering my ability to transfer my weight and "stay behind the ball." I either hang back on my right leg, and then have to fight a hook or chunk; or I slide forward and have to save the shot with a flip. Whatever the case, it's put a lot of undue pressure on my game (especially my iron game). I'm a 6.0 at the moment, and so I've made do -- but the ball has clearly been too far back in my stance for too long.

 

I recall one of the first lessons I had with a pro at my club years ago. I addressed the ball on the range, and he immediately said, "Whoa, whoa, whoa... That ball is too far back. Even Tiger couldn't hit that ball back there." And as I also recall, he moved the ball to a spot that seemed WAY forward to me, but obviously wasn't.

 

So, yeah, the definition or actual location of "forward" probably isn't "too far forward," but needs to be more forward than we've been playing. And messing with it on the range literally only just yesterday, it looks like it's ultimately going to provide the room and time necessary to get into my lead leg and swing through on a less-steep angle.

[jim rockford]

thx for the 2nd wave of great comments, much appreciated :)

 

the thing i think i need to keep in mind is that all my golf swing action with ball way back in stance has been focussed on staying back and probably slamming club into ground (might just be the obvious outcome)........ so now i have to groove new habits.

 

butch harmon is big on what i'd call "over training"............... hit 7 iron with the ball incredibly far forward (further forward than you would actually play it). grooves a new habit.

 

i will try to update here with my progress.

 

[Hawkeye77]

> @jut111 said:

> Use upper body references and not your feet. Makes things much easier as stance width changes.

 

This.

[vman]

How do you measure this from a practical sense. Is it just that you feel it's off the left armpit/pec or centre of sternum, right nipple, etc.> @jut111 said:

> Use upper body references and not your feet. Makes things much easier as stance width changes.