Power on the PGA Tour......

bscinstnct · November 12, 2019

> @LICC said:

> > @bscinstnct said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > @bigred90gt said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @bigred90gt said:

> > > > > > > > > The last time the Open was at St Andrews the winning score was -15 after 4 days. That is -3.75/day average for the week. So, 68.25 scoring average over 4 days won the tournament.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Hardly an obsolete test in my opinion. And it was won by one of the shorter hitters on tour. He was T148 out of 184 players at 282.2 yards for the season.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Can you please elaborate how it would be obsolete if they do not lengthen it any more? What is your criteria for making it obsolete?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I didn't put St. Andrews on the list of courses that are too short. But that is because they lengthened it in creative ways. Putting tee boxes on the adjoining courses and an off-course field in order to keep the course challenging shows that its normal setup would be obsolete for the expectations for a major.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In 1990 Nick Faldo won it with a score of -18. Before it was lengthened, before the “horrible for the game” technological advances were made, on a course that was only 300 yards shorter. He did it with an average driving distance of 249 yards.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Driving distance just isn’t the boogie man people want it to be.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Last 5 Masters winners,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Tiger

> > > > > > Reed

> > > > > > Sergio

> > > > > > Willet

> > > > > > Spieth

> > > > > >

> > > > > > All under 300 yard average drivers.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Tiger was averaging over 300 for the year prior to the Masters. He dropped significantly after he won (which seems related to his knee and back problems). Sergio also averaged over 300 the year he won. Patrick Reed was at 298 the year he won.

> > > >

> > > > None of them even in the top 50 in driving prolly.

> > > >

> > >

> > > And ... so what?

> >

> > So...you realize that the 2019 Masters winner

> >

> > Was shorter than the 1997 Masters winner.

> >

> > Right?

> >

> > ; )

> >

>

> And the 2019 winner was hitting driver lots more than the 1997 winner who hit 3-woods off the tee lots more often. ; )

The last 5 Masters winners

Were shorter than the Masters winner

22 years ago.

And those 5 were playing a longer course ; )

Titleist99 · November 12, 2019

PGA TOUR might want to add a little rough to protect our classic courses..

LICC · November 12, 2019

> @Titleist99 said:

> top 20 in driving distance this year...…..take notice of the accuracy: Tony Finau 55% ……...of the top 21 only 3 with major championships. I think that our classic courses are safe from these world beaters.

>

> Expanded I Statistics

> RK PLAYER AGE YDS/DRIVE DRIVING ACC. DRVE TOTAL GREENS IN REG. PUTT AVG. SAVE PCT.

> 1 Tony Finau 30 335.0 55.5 1 69.4 1.753 44.4

> 2 Cameron Champ 24 333.0 56.1 2 69.8 1.778 52.6

> 3 Ryan Palmer 43 326.1 65.2 3 75.5 1.742 41.2

> 4 Keith Mitchell 27 325.8 64.0 4 67.8 1.787 57.9

> 5 Ryan Brehm -- 324.6 41.1 5 68.1 1.786 43.3

> 6 Brooks Koepka 29 324.3 64.3 6 69.4 1.780 60.0

> 7 Danny Lee 29 324.0 57.3 7 70.7 1.747 63.6

> 8 Matthew Wolff -- 323.9 57.9 8 72.2 1.808 28.6

> 9 Bubba Watson 41 323.7 60.4 9 69.0 1.782 50.0

> 10 Jason Kokrak 34 323.1 60.9 10 71.8 1.823 59.1

> RK PLAYER AGE YDS/DRIVE DRIVING ACC. DRVE TOTAL GREENS IN REG. PUTT AVG. SAVE PCT.

> 11 Gary Woodland 35 322.3 72.6 11 77.3 1.760 54.2

> 12 Kurt Kitayama 26 322.0 45.2 12 69.4 1.760 28.6

> 13 Tyler McCumber -- 321.7 51.6 13 65.4 1.788 35.3

> 14 Grayson Murray 26 321.7 53.2 14 62.1 1.740 36.8

> 15 Kevin Tway 31 320.0 48.8 15 66.4 1.740 46.2

> Patrick Fishburn -- 320.0 42.9 15 61.1 1.727 80.0

> 17 Viktor Hovland 22 319.8 68.9 17 73.6 1.755 52.4

> 18 Harold Varner III 29 319.2 63.0 18 72.8 1.729 37.5

> 19 Byeong-Hun An 28 318.6 54.2 19 69.4 1.707 55.8

> 20 Scottie Scheffler 23 318.6 60.7 20 75.3 1.753 43.8

> RK PLAYER AGE YDS/DRIVE DRIVING ACC. DRVE TOTAL GREENS IN REG. PUTT AVG. SAVE PCT.

> 21 Matt Jones 39 318.5 60.7 21 74.2 1.722 64.0

> 22 Patrick Cantlay 27 318.3 67.0 22 81.3 1.718

>

Are you not realizing how utterly foolhardy you are coming across with this silliness? Half the Tour is smashing drives distances that no one hit years ago. The courses are barely keeping up with all the lengthening that is happening and scores are still coming in low. It isn't about the top 20. Distance overall has skyrocketed.

LICC · November 12, 2019

> @bscinstnct said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > > @bigred90gt said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @bigred90gt said:

> > > > > > > > > > The last time the Open was at St Andrews the winning score was -15 after 4 days. That is -3.75/day average for the week. So, 68.25 scoring average over 4 days won the tournament.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Hardly an obsolete test in my opinion. And it was won by one of the shorter hitters on tour. He was T148 out of 184 players at 282.2 yards for the season.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Can you please elaborate how it would be obsolete if they do not lengthen it any more? What is your criteria for making it obsolete?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I didn't put St. Andrews on the list of courses that are too short. But that is because they lengthened it in creative ways. Putting tee boxes on the adjoining courses and an off-course field in order to keep the course challenging shows that its normal setup would be obsolete for the expectations for a major.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > In 1990 Nick Faldo won it with a score of -18. Before it was lengthened, before the “horrible for the game” technological advances were made, on a course that was only 300 yards shorter. He did it with an average driving distance of 249 yards.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Driving distance just isn’t the boogie man people want it to be.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Last 5 Masters winners,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Tiger

> > > > > > > Reed

> > > > > > > Sergio

> > > > > > > Willet

> > > > > > > Spieth

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > All under 300 yard average drivers.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Tiger was averaging over 300 for the year prior to the Masters. He dropped significantly after he won (which seems related to his knee and back problems). Sergio also averaged over 300 the year he won. Patrick Reed was at 298 the year he won.

> > > > >

> > > > > None of them even in the top 50 in driving prolly.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > And ... so what?

> > >

> > > So...you realize that the 2019 Masters winner

> > >

> > > Was shorter than the 1997 Masters winner.

> > >

> > > Right?

> > >

> > > ; )

> > >

> >

> > And the 2019 winner was hitting driver lots more than the 1997 winner who hit 3-woods off the tee lots more often. ; )

>

> The last 5 Masters winners

>

> Were shorter than the Masters winner

>

> 22 years ago.

>

> And those 5 were playing a longer course ; )

>

But none of those last five won by 12 strokes over 2nd place!

James the Hogan Fan · November 12, 2019

Do I really want to join in on this? Probably not but here goes. I looked at the list of Tour Courses in 1982. Phoenix CC is one of those, and it no longer hosts. It's current scorecard length from the tips is 6763 yards. The shortest course played on tour this year was Pebble at 6816 yards. Therefore I submit that Phoenix CC is to short to hold a tour event today, even though it did in the past.

I guess... I don't know... What is the point of doing this again?

BNGL · November 12, 2019

From a pure length perspective no course can be built long enough to test a PGA Tour player lest you’re going 10k yards plus. That’s consensus from a handful of golf course architects and designers that I’ve been privileged enough to work with or meet that work for Coore/Crenshaw, Nicklaus Design, Arnold Palmer Design, Fazio Design Group.

bscinstnct · November 12, 2019

> @LICC said:

> > @bscinstnct said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > > > @bigred90gt said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @bigred90gt said:

> > > > > > > > > > > The last time the Open was at St Andrews the winning score was -15 after 4 days. That is -3.75/day average for the week. So, 68.25 scoring average over 4 days won the tournament.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Hardly an obsolete test in my opinion. And it was won by one of the shorter hitters on tour. He was T148 out of 184 players at 282.2 yards for the season.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Can you please elaborate how it would be obsolete if they do not lengthen it any more? What is your criteria for making it obsolete?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I didn't put St. Andrews on the list of courses that are too short. But that is because they lengthened it in creative ways. Putting tee boxes on the adjoining courses and an off-course field in order to keep the course challenging shows that its normal setup would be obsolete for the expectations for a major.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > In 1990 Nick Faldo won it with a score of -18. Before it was lengthened, before the “horrible for the game” technological advances were made, on a course that was only 300 yards shorter. He did it with an average driving distance of 249 yards.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Driving distance just isn’t the boogie man people want it to be.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Last 5 Masters winners,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Tiger

> > > > > > > > Reed

> > > > > > > > Sergio

> > > > > > > > Willet

> > > > > > > > Spieth

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > All under 300 yard average drivers.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Tiger was averaging over 300 for the year prior to the Masters. He dropped significantly after he won (which seems related to his knee and back problems). Sergio also averaged over 300 the year he won. Patrick Reed was at 298 the year he won.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > None of them even in the top 50 in driving prolly.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > And ... so what?

> > > >

> > > > So...you realize that the 2019 Masters winner

> > > >

> > > > Was shorter than the 1997 Masters winner.

> > > >

> > > > Right?

> > > >

> > > > ; )

> > > >

> > >

> > > And the 2019 winner was hitting driver lots more than the 1997 winner who hit 3-woods off the tee lots more often. ; )

> >

> > The last 5 Masters winners

> >

> > Were shorter than the Masters winner

> >

> > 22 years ago.

> >

> > And those 5 were playing a longer course ; )

> >

>

> But none of those last five won by 12 strokes over 2nd place!

It’s not just the Masters. If you look at all Majors since the late 90s, when distance started to jump

Just as many Majors have been wine by average or even short hitters as long hitters.

Look at Rory and DJ. Top of the distance charts. And between the two of them they have one major

In 5 years.

Titleist99 · November 12, 2019

> @"James the Hogan Fan" said:

> Do I really want to join in on this? Probably not but here goes. I looked at the list of Tour Courses in 1982. Phoenix CC is one of those, and it no longer hosts. It's current scorecard length from the tips is 6763 yards. The shortest course played on tour this year was Pebble at 6816 yards. Therefore I submit that Phoenix CC is to short to hold a tour event today, even though it did in the past.

>

> I guess... I don't know... What is the point of doing this again?

and you have

They just had a great champions tour event there....really exciting! add some rough, speed the greens up and you have a pga tour event.

LICC · November 13, 2019

> @bscinstnct said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > > > > @bigred90gt said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @bigred90gt said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > The last time the Open was at St Andrews the winning score was -15 after 4 days. That is -3.75/day average for the week. So, 68.25 scoring average over 4 days won the tournament.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Hardly an obsolete test in my opinion. And it was won by one of the shorter hitters on tour. He was T148 out of 184 players at 282.2 yards for the season.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Can you please elaborate how it would be obsolete if they do not lengthen it any more? What is your criteria for making it obsolete?

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I didn't put St. Andrews on the list of courses that are too short. But that is because they lengthened it in creative ways. Putting tee boxes on the adjoining courses and an off-course field in order to keep the course challenging shows that its normal setup would be obsolete for the expectations for a major.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > In 1990 Nick Faldo won it with a score of -18. Before it was lengthened, before the “horrible for the game” technological advances were made, on a course that was only 300 yards shorter. He did it with an average driving distance of 249 yards.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Driving distance just isn’t the boogie man people want it to be.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Last 5 Masters winners,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Tiger

> > > > > > > > > Reed

> > > > > > > > > Sergio

> > > > > > > > > Willet

> > > > > > > > > Spieth

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > All under 300 yard average drivers.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Tiger was averaging over 300 for the year prior to the Masters. He dropped significantly after he won (which seems related to his knee and back problems). Sergio also averaged over 300 the year he won. Patrick Reed was at 298 the year he won.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > None of them even in the top 50 in driving prolly.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And ... so what?

> > > > >

> > > > > So...you realize that the 2019 Masters winner

> > > > >

> > > > > Was shorter than the 1997 Masters winner.

> > > > >

> > > > > Right?

> > > > >

> > > > > ; )

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > And the 2019 winner was hitting driver lots more than the 1997 winner who hit 3-woods off the tee lots more often. ; )

> > >

> > > The last 5 Masters winners

> > >

> > > Were shorter than the Masters winner

> > >

> > > 22 years ago.

> > >

> > > And those 5 were playing a longer course ; )

> > >

> >

> > But none of those last five won by 12 strokes over 2nd place!

>

> It’s not just the Masters. If you look at all Majors since the late 90s, when distance started to jump

>

> Just as many Majors have been wine by average or even short hitters as long hitters.

>

> Look at Rory and DJ. Top of the distance charts. And between the two of them they have one major

>

> In 5 years.

>

I know this. ... So what? Everyone’s distance is up substantially. Don’t know why you keep bringing up that the longest hitters don’t always win majors.

James the Hogan Fan · November 13, 2019

> @Titleist99 said:

> > @"James the Hogan Fan" said:

> > Do I really want to join in on this? Probably not but here goes. I looked at the list of Tour Courses in 1982. Phoenix CC is one of those, and it no longer hosts. It's current scorecard length from the tips is 6763 yards. The shortest course played on tour this year was Pebble at 6816 yards. Therefore I submit that Phoenix CC is to short to hold a tour event today, even though it did in the past.

> >

> > I guess... I don't know... What is the point of doing this again?

> and you have

> They just had a great champions tour event there....really exciting! add some rough, speed the greens up and you have a pga tour event.

But they don't, so there must be more to it than that.

bscinstnct · November 13, 2019

> @LICC said:

> > @bscinstnct said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @bigred90gt said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @bigred90gt said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > The last time the Open was at St Andrews the winning score was -15 after 4 days. That is -3.75/day average for the week. So, 68.25 scoring average over 4 days won the tournament.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hardly an obsolete test in my opinion. And it was won by one of the shorter hitters on tour. He was T148 out of 184 players at 282.2 yards for the season.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you please elaborate how it would be obsolete if they do not lengthen it any more? What is your criteria for making it obsolete?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't put St. Andrews on the list of courses that are too short. But that is because they lengthened it in creative ways. Putting tee boxes on the adjoining courses and an off-course field in order to keep the course challenging shows that its normal setup would be obsolete for the expectations for a major.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > In 1990 Nick Faldo won it with a score of -18. Before it was lengthened, before the “horrible for the game” technological advances were made, on a course that was only 300 yards shorter. He did it with an average driving distance of 249 yards.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Driving distance just isn’t the boogie man people want it to be.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Last 5 Masters winners,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Tiger

> > > > > > > > > > Reed

> > > > > > > > > > Sergio

> > > > > > > > > > Willet

> > > > > > > > > > Spieth

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > All under 300 yard average drivers.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Tiger was averaging over 300 for the year prior to the Masters. He dropped significantly after he won (which seems related to his knee and back problems). Sergio also averaged over 300 the year he won. Patrick Reed was at 298 the year he won.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > None of them even in the top 50 in driving prolly.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > And ... so what?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So...you realize that the 2019 Masters winner

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Was shorter than the 1997 Masters winner.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Right?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ; )

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > And the 2019 winner was hitting driver lots more than the 1997 winner who hit 3-woods off the tee lots more often. ; )

> > > >

> > > > The last 5 Masters winners

> > > >

> > > > Were shorter than the Masters winner

> > > >

> > > > 22 years ago.

> > > >

> > > > And those 5 were playing a longer course ; )

> > > >

> > >

> > > But none of those last five won by 12 strokes over 2nd place!

> >

> > It’s not just the Masters. If you look at all Majors since the late 90s, when distance started to jump

> >

> > Just as many Majors have been wine by average or even short hitters as long hitters.

> >

> > Look at Rory and DJ. Top of the distance charts. And between the two of them they have one major

> >

> > In 5 years.

> >

>

> I know this. ... So what? Everyone’s distance is up substantially. Don’t know why you keep bringing up that the longest hitters don’t always win majors.

Because if the driving distance required to win major championships has not changed in

22 years

It renders the “roll back the ball” argument

Irrelevant; )

gvogel · November 13, 2019

> @"Ghost of Snead" said:

> > @bigred90gt said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @bigred90gt said:

> > > > The last time the Open was at St Andrews the winning score was -15 after 4 days. That is -3.75/day average for the week. So, 68.25 scoring average over 4 days won the tournament.

> > > >

> > > > Hardly an obsolete test in my opinion. And it was won by one of the shorter hitters on tour. He was T148 out of 184 players at 282.2 yards for the season.

> > > >

> > > > Can you please elaborate how it would be obsolete if they do not lengthen it any more? What is your criteria for making it obsolete?

> > > >

> > >

> > > I didn't put St. Andrews on the list of courses that are too short. But that is because they lengthened it in creative ways. Putting tee boxes on the adjoining courses and an off-course field in order to keep the course challenging shows that its normal setup would be obsolete for the expectations for a major.

> >

> > In 1990 Nick Faldo won it with a score of -18. Before it was lengthened, before the “horrible for the game” technological advances were made, on a course that was only 300 yards shorter. He did it with an average driving distance of 249 yards.

> >

> > **Driving distance just isn’t the boogie man people want it to be.**

> >

>

> If it isn't, why did ANGC buy land back of Amen Corner from Augusta CC in 2017 and agree to pay for a re-route of ACC's 9th hole ?

I highly endorse this comment and sentiment.

gvogel · November 13, 2019

> @Titleist99 said:

> top 20 in driving distance this year...…..take notice of the accuracy: Tony Finau 55% ……...of the top 21 only 3 with major championships. I think that our classic courses are safe from these world beaters.

>

> Expanded I Statistics

> RK PLAYER AGE YDS/DRIVE DRIVING ACC. DRVE TOTAL GREENS IN REG. PUTT AVG. SAVE PCT.

> 1 Tony Finau 30 335.0 55.5 1 69.4 1.753 44.4

> 2 Cameron Champ 24 333.0 56.1 2 69.8 1.778 52.6

> 3 Ryan Palmer 43 326.1 65.2 3 75.5 1.742 41.2

> 4 Keith Mitchell 27 325.8 64.0 4 67.8 1.787 57.9

> 5 Ryan Brehm -- 324.6 41.1 5 68.1 1.786 43.3

> 6 Brooks Koepka 29 324.3 64.3 6 69.4 1.780 60.0

> 7 Danny Lee 29 324.0 57.3 7 70.7 1.747 63.6

> 8 Matthew Wolff -- 323.9 57.9 8 72.2 1.808 28.6

> 9 Bubba Watson 41 323.7 60.4 9 69.0 1.782 50.0

> 10 Jason Kokrak 34 323.1 60.9 10 71.8 1.823 59.1

> RK PLAYER AGE YDS/DRIVE DRIVING ACC. DRVE TOTAL GREENS IN REG. PUTT AVG. SAVE PCT.

> 11 Gary Woodland 35 322.3 72.6 11 77.3 1.760 54.2

> 12 Kurt Kitayama 26 322.0 45.2 12 69.4 1.760 28.6

> 13 Tyler McCumber -- 321.7 51.6 13 65.4 1.788 35.3

> 14 Grayson Murray 26 321.7 53.2 14 62.1 1.740 36.8

> 15 Kevin Tway 31 320.0 48.8 15 66.4 1.740 46.2

> Patrick Fishburn -- 320.0 42.9 15 61.1 1.727 80.0

> 17 Viktor Hovland 22 319.8 68.9 17 73.6 1.755 52.4

> 18 Harold Varner III 29 319.2 63.0 18 72.8 1.729 37.5

> 19 Byeong-Hun An 28 318.6 54.2 19 69.4 1.707 55.8

> 20 Scottie Scheffler 23 318.6 60.7 20 75.3 1.753 43.8

> RK PLAYER AGE YDS/DRIVE DRIVING ACC. DRVE TOTAL GREENS IN REG. PUTT AVG. SAVE PCT.

> 21 Matt Jones 39 318.5 60.7 21 74.2 1.722 64.0

> 22 Patrick Cantlay 27 318.3 67.0 22 81.3 1.718

>

What a stupid list. We're only 2 months into the new year, and McIlroy hasn't even played on the Tour yet.

Please use full year 2018 - 2019 statistics.

gvogel · November 13, 2019

> @bscinstnct said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > > @bigred90gt said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @bigred90gt said:

> > > > > > > > > > The last time the Open was at St Andrews the winning score was -15 after 4 days. That is -3.75/day average for the week. So, 68.25 scoring average over 4 days won the tournament.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Hardly an obsolete test in my opinion. And it was won by one of the shorter hitters on tour. He was T148 out of 184 players at 282.2 yards for the season.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Can you please elaborate how it would be obsolete if they do not lengthen it any more? What is your criteria for making it obsolete?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I didn't put St. Andrews on the list of courses that are too short. But that is because they lengthened it in creative ways. Putting tee boxes on the adjoining courses and an off-course field in order to keep the course challenging shows that its normal setup would be obsolete for the expectations for a major.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > In 1990 Nick Faldo won it with a score of -18. Before it was lengthened, before the “horrible for the game” technological advances were made, on a course that was only 300 yards shorter. He did it with an average driving distance of 249 yards.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Driving distance just isn’t the boogie man people want it to be.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Last 5 Masters winners,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Tiger

> > > > > > > Reed

> > > > > > > Sergio

> > > > > > > Willet

> > > > > > > Spieth

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > All under 300 yard average drivers.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Tiger was averaging over 300 for the year prior to the Masters. He dropped significantly after he won (which seems related to his knee and back problems). Sergio also averaged over 300 the year he won. Patrick Reed was at 298 the year he won.

> > > > >

> > > > > None of them even in the top 50 in driving prolly.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > And ... so what?

> > >

> > > So...you realize that the 2019 Masters winner

> > >

> > > Was shorter than the 1997 Masters winner.

> > >

> > > Right?

> > >

> > > ; )

> > >

> >

> > And the 2019 winner was hitting driver lots more than the 1997 winner who hit 3-woods off the tee lots more often. ; )

>

> The last 5 Masters winners

>

> Were shorter than the Masters winner

>

> 22 years ago.

>

> And those 5 were playing a longer course ; )

>

Maybe, maybe not. firm fairways might have played a roll. But while we're at it, give it up to a freak of golf distance and extreme golf talent - Jack Wesley Nicklaus. Love the champion.

bigred90gt · November 13, 2019

> @LICC said:

> > @bigred90gt said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @bigred90gt said:

> > > > The last time the Open was at St Andrews the winning score was -15 after 4 days. That is -3.75/day average for the week. So, 68.25 scoring average over 4 days won the tournament.

> > > >

> > > > Hardly an obsolete test in my opinion. And it was won by one of the shorter hitters on tour. He was T148 out of 184 players at 282.2 yards for the season.

> > > >

> > > > Can you please elaborate how it would be obsolete if they do not lengthen it any more? What is your criteria for making it obsolete?

> > > >

> > >

> > > I didn't put St. Andrews on the list of courses that are too short. But that is because they lengthened it in creative ways. Putting tee boxes on the adjoining courses and an off-course field in order to keep the course challenging shows that its normal setup would be obsolete for the expectations for a major.

> >

> > In 1990 Nick Faldo won it with a score of -18. Before it was lengthened, before the “horrible for the game” technological advances were made, on a course that was only 300 yards shorter. He did it with an average driving distance of 249 yards.

> >

> > Driving distance just isn’t the boogie man people want it to be.

> >

>

> It was more like 400 yards shorter in 1990. Play that length today and winning scores would be 25 under.

It was 6933 in 1990 and 7297 in 2015. Not quite 400, but more than 300.

Still doesn’t change the fact that Nick Faldo won with a score of -18 and 249 yard driving average. That is an average of 20 yards per hole difference from today. I don’t think you can contribute length or the shorter course to Faldo’s score. It’s just possible that these are the best players on the planet and sometimes they go low.

2000 was the only lower score. That was Tiger at -19. He had a driving distance average of 298 that year (before the evil ProV era “ruined golf”) and the course was 7115. 182 yards shorter, or approximate 10 yards per hole. He was #2 in driving distance that year.

If we look at #2 for the 2019 season, it is Rory at 313 yards. 313-298 is 15 yards. So essentially if you take the 10 yards per hole, there is a net 5 yard difference. I don’t think you have a 6 stroke difference for 5 yards, and 2000 tiger woods was arguably one of, if not THE best iron players in the history of the game. I venture a guess even at the 7115 yards, scores wouldn’t even be at -19.

Again, distance isn’t the boogey man some people want it to be.

LICC · November 13, 2019

> @bscinstnct said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @bigred90gt said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @bigred90gt said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The last time the Open was at St Andrews the winning score was -15 after 4 days. That is -3.75/day average for the week. So, 68.25 scoring average over 4 days won the tournament.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hardly an obsolete test in my opinion. And it was won by one of the shorter hitters on tour. He was T148 out of 184 players at 282.2 yards for the season.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you please elaborate how it would be obsolete if they do not lengthen it any more? What is your criteria for making it obsolete?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't put St. Andrews on the list of courses that are too short. But that is because they lengthened it in creative ways. Putting tee boxes on the adjoining courses and an off-course field in order to keep the course challenging shows that its normal setup would be obsolete for the expectations for a major.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > In 1990 Nick Faldo won it with a score of -18. Before it was lengthened, before the “horrible for the game” technological advances were made, on a course that was only 300 yards shorter. He did it with an average driving distance of 249 yards.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Driving distance just isn’t the boogie man people want it to be.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Last 5 Masters winners,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Tiger

> > > > > > > > > > > Reed

> > > > > > > > > > > Sergio

> > > > > > > > > > > Willet

> > > > > > > > > > > Spieth

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > All under 300 yard average drivers.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Tiger was averaging over 300 for the year prior to the Masters. He dropped significantly after he won (which seems related to his knee and back problems). Sergio also averaged over 300 the year he won. Patrick Reed was at 298 the year he won.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > None of them even in the top 50 in driving prolly.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > And ... so what?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So...you realize that the 2019 Masters winner

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Was shorter than the 1997 Masters winner.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Right?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ; )

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And the 2019 winner was hitting driver lots more than the 1997 winner who hit 3-woods off the tee lots more often. ; )

> > > > >

> > > > > The last 5 Masters winners

> > > > >

> > > > > Were shorter than the Masters winner

> > > > >

> > > > > 22 years ago.

> > > > >

> > > > > And those 5 were playing a longer course ; )

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > But none of those last five won by 12 strokes over 2nd place!

> > >

> > > It’s not just the Masters. If you look at all Majors since the late 90s, when distance started to jump

> > >

> > > Just as many Majors have been wine by average or even short hitters as long hitters.

> > >

> > > Look at Rory and DJ. Top of the distance charts. And between the two of them they have one major

> > >

> > > In 5 years.

> > >

> >

> > I know this. ... So what? Everyone’s distance is up substantially. Don’t know why you keep bringing up that the longest hitters don’t always win majors.

>

> Because if the driving distance required to win major championships has not changed in

>

> 22 years

>

> It renders the “roll back the ball” argument

>

> Irrelevant; )

>

Courses are much longer than they were 22 years ago. And all the players hit it much longer than they did 22 years ago. So your comment doesn’t fly here.

bigred90gt · November 13, 2019

And Raymon Floyd won the masters in 1976 with a score of -17, only 1 stroke lower that the record set by Tiger in 1997 and matched by Spieth in 2015.

Spieth was T78 in distance at 291 yards at the time.

Driving distance stats only go back to 1980, so I can’t go to 76, but in 80, Floyd was T78 at 258 yards. Course played 7030 yards in 1976. It played 6925 in 1997, when Tiger averaged 40 yards longer, and yet he only scored 1 stroke better.

Again, distance isn’t the boogie man people want it to be.

bigred90gt · November 13, 2019

> @"Ghost of Snead" said:

> > @bigred90gt said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @bigred90gt said:

> > > > The last time the Open was at St Andrews the winning score was -15 after 4 days. That is -3.75/day average for the week. So, 68.25 scoring average over 4 days won the tournament.

> > > >

> > > > Hardly an obsolete test in my opinion. And it was won by one of the shorter hitters on tour. He was T148 out of 184 players at 282.2 yards for the season.

> > > >

> > > > Can you please elaborate how it would be obsolete if they do not lengthen it any more? What is your criteria for making it obsolete?

> > > >

> > >

> > > I didn't put St. Andrews on the list of courses that are too short. But that is because they lengthened it in creative ways. Putting tee boxes on the adjoining courses and an off-course field in order to keep the course challenging shows that its normal setup would be obsolete for the expectations for a major.

> >

> > In 1990 Nick Faldo won it with a score of -18. Before it was lengthened, before the “horrible for the game” technological advances were made, on a course that was only 300 yards shorter. He did it with an average driving distance of 249 yards.

> >

> > **Driving distance just isn’t the boogie man people want it to be.**

> >

>

> If it isn't, why did ANGC buy land back of Amen Corner from Augusta CC in 2017 and agree to pay for a re-route of ACC's 9th hole ?

Because they’re a private country club and that’s what their membership/board votes to do?

LICC · November 13, 2019

> @bigred90gt said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @bigred90gt said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @bigred90gt said:

> > > > > The last time the Open was at St Andrews the winning score was -15 after 4 days. That is -3.75/day average for the week. So, 68.25 scoring average over 4 days won the tournament.

> > > > >

> > > > > Hardly an obsolete test in my opinion. And it was won by one of the shorter hitters on tour. He was T148 out of 184 players at 282.2 yards for the season.

> > > > >

> > > > > Can you please elaborate how it would be obsolete if they do not lengthen it any more? What is your criteria for making it obsolete?

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > I didn't put St. Andrews on the list of courses that are too short. But that is because they lengthened it in creative ways. Putting tee boxes on the adjoining courses and an off-course field in order to keep the course challenging shows that its normal setup would be obsolete for the expectations for a major.

> > >

> > > In 1990 Nick Faldo won it with a score of -18. Before it was lengthened, before the “horrible for the game” technological advances were made, on a course that was only 300 yards shorter. He did it with an average driving distance of 249 yards.

> > >

> > > Driving distance just isn’t the boogie man people want it to be.

> > >

> >

> > It was more like 400 yards shorter in 1990. Play that length today and winning scores would be 25 under.

>

> It was 6933 in 1990 and 7297 in 2015. Not quite 400, but more than 300.

>

> Still doesn’t change the fact that Nick Faldo won with a score of -18 and 249 yard driving average. That is an average of 20 yards per hole difference from today. I don’t think you can contribute length or the shorter course to Faldo’s score. It’s just possible that these are the best players on the planet and sometimes they go low.

>

> 2000 was the only lower score. That was Tiger at -19. He had a driving distance average of 298 that year (before the evil ProV era “ruined golf”) and the course was 7115. 182 yards shorter, or approximate 10 yards per hole. He was #2 in driving distance that year.

>

> If we look at #2 for the 2019 season, it is Rory at 313 yards. 313-298 is 15 yards. So essentially if you take the 10 yards per hole, there is a net 5 yard difference. I don’t think you have a 6 stroke difference for 5 yards, and 2000 tiger woods was arguably one of, if not THE best iron players in the history of the game. I venture a guess even at the 7115 yards, scores wouldn’t even be at -19.

>

> Again, distance isn’t the boogey man some people want it to be.

If you consider the par 4s and 5s get more of those 365 extra yards, you are looking at a more than two club difference on each hole. And with newer equipment, even more of an impact. To say distance from modern equipment isn’t a big impact on the Tour game is nonsensical.

bscinstnct · November 13, 2019

> @LICC said:

> > @bscinstnct said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @bigred90gt said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @bigred90gt said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The last time the Open was at St Andrews the winning score was -15 after 4 days. That is -3.75/day average for the week. So, 68.25 scoring average over 4 days won the tournament.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hardly an obsolete test in my opinion. And it was won by one of the shorter hitters on tour. He was T148 out of 184 players at 282.2 yards for the season.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you please elaborate how it would be obsolete if they do not lengthen it any more? What is your criteria for making it obsolete?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't put St. Andrews on the list of courses that are too short. But that is because they lengthened it in creative ways. Putting tee boxes on the adjoining courses and an off-course field in order to keep the course challenging shows that its normal setup would be obsolete for the expectations for a major.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > In 1990 Nick Faldo won it with a score of -18. Before it was lengthened, before the “horrible for the game” technological advances were made, on a course that was only 300 yards shorter. He did it with an average driving distance of 249 yards.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Driving distance just isn’t the boogie man people want it to be.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Last 5 Masters winners,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Tiger

> > > > > > > > > > > > Reed

> > > > > > > > > > > > Sergio

> > > > > > > > > > > > Willet

> > > > > > > > > > > > Spieth

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > All under 300 yard average drivers.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Tiger was averaging over 300 for the year prior to the Masters. He dropped significantly after he won (which seems related to his knee and back problems). Sergio also averaged over 300 the year he won. Patrick Reed was at 298 the year he won.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > None of them even in the top 50 in driving prolly.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > And ... so what?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > So...you realize that the 2019 Masters winner

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Was shorter than the 1997 Masters winner.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Right?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ; )

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > And the 2019 winner was hitting driver lots more than the 1997 winner who hit 3-woods off the tee lots more often. ; )

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The last 5 Masters winners

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Were shorter than the Masters winner

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 22 years ago.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And those 5 were playing a longer course ; )

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > But none of those last five won by 12 strokes over 2nd place!

> > > >

> > > > It’s not just the Masters. If you look at all Majors since the late 90s, when distance started to jump

> > > >

> > > > Just as many Majors have been wine by average or even short hitters as long hitters.

> > > >

> > > > Look at Rory and DJ. Top of the distance charts. And between the two of them they have one major

> > > >

> > > > In 5 years.

> > > >

> > >

> > > I know this. ... So what? Everyone’s distance is up substantially. Don’t know why you keep bringing up that the longest hitters don’t always win majors.

> >

> > Because if the driving distance required to win major championships has not changed in

> >

> > 22 years

> >

> > It renders the “roll back the ball” argument

> >

> > Irrelevant; )

> >

>

> Courses are much longer than they were 22 years ago. And all the players hit it much longer than they did 22 years ago. So your comment doesn’t fly here.

Yes, that’s the point. The courses are much longer. And the average distance is higher. But, to actually

Win the tournament

You don’t actually need to hit it farther off the tee. The average distance of the *winners....

Is the same, lol.

Spieth tied the Masters record.

Hitting it shorter off the tee than guys who won 10, 15, 20 years earlier. As did many others.

LICC · November 13, 2019

> @bigred90gt said:

> And Raymon Floyd won the masters in 1976 with a score of -17, only 1 stroke lower that the record set by Tiger in 1997 and matched by Spieth in 2015.

>

> Spieth was T78 in distance at 291 yards at the time.

>

> Driving distance stats only go back to 1980, so I can’t go to 76, but in 80, Floyd was T78 at 258 yards. Course played 7030 yards in 1976. It played 6925 in 1997, when Tiger averaged 40 yards longer, and yet he only scored 1 stroke better.

>

> Again, distance isn’t the boogie man people want it to be.

And Augusta was 450 yards shorter in 1976 than it is today. The average driving distance on Tour back then was probably about 255 with the leader probably around 275. Distance from modern equipment has fundamentally changed how these courses are played by the Tour and have required them to add substantially more length.

oikos1 · November 13, 2019

> @LICC said:

> > @bigred90gt said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @bigred90gt said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @bigred90gt said:

> > > > > > The last time the Open was at St Andrews the winning score was -15 after 4 days. That is -3.75/day average for the week. So, 68.25 scoring average over 4 days won the tournament.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hardly an obsolete test in my opinion. And it was won by one of the shorter hitters on tour. He was T148 out of 184 players at 282.2 yards for the season.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Can you please elaborate how it would be obsolete if they do not lengthen it any more? What is your criteria for making it obsolete?

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I didn't put St. Andrews on the list of courses that are too short. But that is because they lengthened it in creative ways. Putting tee boxes on the adjoining courses and an off-course field in order to keep the course challenging shows that its normal setup would be obsolete for the expectations for a major.

> > > >

> > > > In 1990 Nick Faldo won it with a score of -18. Before it was lengthened, before the “horrible for the game” technological advances were made, on a course that was only 300 yards shorter. He did it with an average driving distance of 249 yards.

> > > >

> > > > Driving distance just isn’t the boogie man people want it to be.

> > > >

> > >

> > > It was more like 400 yards shorter in 1990. Play that length today and winning scores would be 25 under.

> >

> > It was 6933 in 1990 and 7297 in 2015. Not quite 400, but more than 300.

> >

> > Still doesn’t change the fact that Nick Faldo won with a score of -18 and 249 yard driving average. That is an average of 20 yards per hole difference from today. I don’t think you can contribute length or the shorter course to Faldo’s score. It’s just possible that these are the best players on the planet and sometimes they go low.

> >

> > 2000 was the only lower score. That was Tiger at -19. He had a driving distance average of 298 that year (before the evil ProV era “ruined golf”) and the course was 7115. 182 yards shorter, or approximate 10 yards per hole. He was #2 in driving distance that year.

> >

> > If we look at #2 for the 2019 season, it is Rory at 313 yards. 313-298 is 15 yards. So essentially if you take the 10 yards per hole, there is a net 5 yard difference. I don’t think you have a 6 stroke difference for 5 yards, and 2000 tiger woods was arguably one of, if not THE best iron players in the history of the game. I venture a guess even at the 7115 yards, scores wouldn’t even be at -19.

> >

> > Again, distance isn’t the boogey man some people want it to be.

>

> If you consider the par 4s and 5s get more of those 365 extra yards, you are looking at a more than two club difference on each hole. And with newer equipment, even more of an impact. To say distance from modern equipment isn’t a big impact on the Tour game is nonsensical.

Of course modern equipment has had an impact on the tour game. And as it has been shown, golf courses are adapting and the state of the game isn't as doom and gloom as some would suggest. Should the R&A and USGA be planning for the future? I would hope so.

Titleist99 · November 13, 2019

Golf courses don't always use the yardage available to them. Tournaments often move tee up in order to intice players to go for it on par 5's

and on par 4's they'll move tees up to make them drivable par4's. The trend lately is to have the pro par3's at about 180-200 but most

can be stretched out to 230. my point is that extra length gives tournaments set up leverage and not always to combat driving Power.

Golfjack · November 13, 2019

Why does it matter what courses the Pro's play at? It doesn't affect regular joes. How many times have most of us come up to a course that is short and shot under par? Until I'm just shooting under par at those short courses I'm not complaining. For the courses that want to host tournaments they just need to tighten the fairways and grow the rough and make the tournaments boring (which they will not). Instead they just keep making it longer.

Titleist99 · November 13, 2019

> @gvogel said:

> > @Titleist99 said:

> > top 20 in driving distance this year...…..take notice of the accuracy: Tony Finau 55% ……...of the top 21 only 3 with major championships. I think that our classic courses are safe from these world beaters.

> >

> > Expanded I Statistics

> > RK PLAYER AGE YDS/DRIVE DRIVING ACC. DRVE TOTAL GREENS IN REG. PUTT AVG. SAVE PCT.

> > 1 Tony Finau 30 335.0 55.5 1 69.4 1.753 44.4

> > 2 Cameron Champ 24 333.0 56.1 2 69.8 1.778 52.6

> > 3 Ryan Palmer 43 326.1 65.2 3 75.5 1.742 41.2

> > 4 Keith Mitchell 27 325.8 64.0 4 67.8 1.787 57.9

> > 5 Ryan Brehm -- 324.6 41.1 5 68.1 1.786 43.3

> > 6 Brooks Koepka 29 324.3 64.3 6 69.4 1.780 60.0

> > 7 Danny Lee 29 324.0 57.3 7 70.7 1.747 63.6

> > 8 Matthew Wolff -- 323.9 57.9 8 72.2 1.808 28.6

> > 9 Bubba Watson 41 323.7 60.4 9 69.0 1.782 50.0

> > 10 Jason Kokrak 34 323.1 60.9 10 71.8 1.823 59.1

> > RK PLAYER AGE YDS/DRIVE DRIVING ACC. DRVE TOTAL GREENS IN REG. PUTT AVG. SAVE PCT.

> > 11 Gary Woodland 35 322.3 72.6 11 77.3 1.760 54.2

> > 12 Kurt Kitayama 26 322.0 45.2 12 69.4 1.760 28.6

> > 13 Tyler McCumber -- 321.7 51.6 13 65.4 1.788 35.3

> > 14 Grayson Murray 26 321.7 53.2 14 62.1 1.740 36.8

> > 15 Kevin Tway 31 320.0 48.8 15 66.4 1.740 46.2

> > Patrick Fishburn -- 320.0 42.9 15 61.1 1.727 80.0

> > 17 Viktor Hovland 22 319.8 68.9 17 73.6 1.755 52.4

> > 18 Harold Varner III 29 319.2 63.0 18 72.8 1.729 37.5

> > 19 Byeong-Hun An 28 318.6 54.2 19 69.4 1.707 55.8

> > 20 Scottie Scheffler 23 318.6 60.7 20 75.3 1.753 43.8

> > RK PLAYER AGE YDS/DRIVE DRIVING ACC. DRVE TOTAL GREENS IN REG. PUTT AVG. SAVE PCT.

> > 21 Matt Jones 39 318.5 60.7 21 74.2 1.722 64.0

> > 22 Patrick Cantlay 27 318.3 67.0 22 81.3 1.718

> >

>

> What a stupid list. We're only 2 months into the new year, and McIlroy hasn't even played on the Tour yet.

>

> Please use full year 2018 - 2019 statistics.

Rory Mcilroy is 121st on this list with 61.3 driving accuracy. I do believe he played the Zozo.. something is stupid here, it may not be my list.

LICC · November 13, 2019

> @Golfjack said:

> Why does it matter what courses the Pro's play at? It doesn't affect regular joes. How many times have most of us come up to a course that is short and shot under par? Until I'm just shooting under par at those short courses I'm not complaining. For the courses that want to host tournaments they just need to tighten the fairways and grow the rough and make the tournaments boring (which they will not). Instead they just keep making it longer.

It affects golf fans who watch the pros.

bigred90gt · November 13, 2019

>@LICC said:

> > @bigred90gt said:

> > And Raymon Floyd won the masters in 1976 with a score of -17, only 1 stroke lower that the record set by Tiger in 1997 and matched by Spieth in 2015.

> >

> > Spieth was T78 in distance at 291 yards at the time.

> >

> > Driving distance stats only go back to 1980, so I can’t go to 76, but in 80, Floyd was T78 at 258 yards. Course played 7030 yards in 1976. It played 6925 in 1997, when Tiger averaged 40 yards longer, and yet he only scored 1 stroke better.

> >

> > Again, distance isn’t the boogie man people want it to be.

>

> And Augusta was 450 yards shorter in 1976 than it is today. The average driving distance on Tour back then was probably about 255 with the leader probably around 275. Distance from modern equipment has fundamentally changed how these courses are played by the Tour and have required them to add substantially more length.

It was 7030 yards and the winning score was -17 from a guy with a driving distance average around 260 (4 years later since I couldn’t find data for that year).

450 yards is only an average of 25 yards per hole, and yet the winning score was 4 strokes higher.

Again, distance isn’t the boogey man some want it to be.

Shall we continue? I can keep throwing indisputable facts at you, or you can just admit it isn’t ruining anything.

Ashley Schaeffer · November 13, 2019

> @LICC said:

> > @bigred90gt said:

> > And Raymon Floyd won the masters in 1976 with a score of -17, only 1 stroke lower that the record set by Tiger in 1997 and matched by Spieth in 2015.

> >

> > Spieth was T78 in distance at 291 yards at the time.

> >

> > Driving distance stats only go back to 1980, so I can’t go to 76, but in 80, Floyd was T78 at 258 yards. Course played 7030 yards in 1976. It played 6925 in 1997, when Tiger averaged 40 yards longer, and yet he only scored 1 stroke better.

> >

> > Again, distance isn’t the boogie man people want it to be.

>

> And Augusta was 450 yards shorter in 1976 than it is today. The average driving distance on Tour back then was probably about 255 with the leader probably around 275. Distance from modern equipment has fundamentally changed how these courses are played by the Tour and have required them to add substantially more length.

But I keep reading on other threads that Nicklaus bombed it over 300 on command with cinnamon and frittata.

Enjoy the thread, fellas.

Titleist99 · November 13, 2019

> @bigred90gt said:

> >@LICC said:

> > > @bigred90gt said:

> > > And Raymon Floyd won the masters in 1976 with a score of -17, only 1 stroke lower that the record set by Tiger in 1997 and matched by Spieth in 2015.

> > >

> > > Spieth was T78 in distance at 291 yards at the time.

> > >

> > > Driving distance stats only go back to 1980, so I can’t go to 76, but in 80, Floyd was T78 at 258 yards. Course played 7030 yards in 1976. It played 6925 in 1997, when Tiger averaged 40 yards longer, and yet he only scored 1 stroke better.

> > >

> > > Again, distance isn’t the boogie man people want it to be.

> >

> > And Augusta was 450 yards shorter in 1976 than it is today. The average driving distance on Tour back then was probably about 255 with the leader probably around 275. Distance from modern equipment has fundamentally changed how these courses are played by the Tour and have required them to add substantially more length.

>

> It was 7030 yards and the winning score was -17 from a guy with a driving distance average around 260 (4 years later since I couldn’t find data for that year).

>

> 450 yards is only an average of 25 yards per hole, and yet the winning score was 4 strokes higher.

>

> Again, distance isn’t the boogey man some want it to be.

>

> Shall we continue? I can keep throwing indisputable facts at you, or you can just admit it isn’t ruining anything.

>

> @bigred90gt said:

> >@LICC said:

> > > @bigred90gt said:

> > > And Raymon Floyd won the masters in 1976 with a score of -17, only 1 stroke lower that the record set by Tiger in 1997 and matched by Spieth in 2015.

> > >

> > > Spieth was T78 in distance at 291 yards at the time.

> > >

> > > Driving distance stats only go back to 1980, so I can’t go to 76, but in 80, Floyd was T78 at 258 yards. Course played 7030 yards in 1976. It played 6925 in 1997, when Tiger averaged 40 yards longer, and yet he only scored 1 stroke better.

> > >

> > > Again, distance isn’t the boogie man people want it to be.

> >

> > And Augusta was 450 yards shorter in 1976 than it is today. The average driving distance on Tour back then was probably about 255 with the leader probably around 275. Distance from modern equipment has fundamentally changed how these courses are played by the Tour and have required them to add substantially more length.

>

> It was 7030 yards and the winning score was -17 from a guy with a driving distance average around 260 (4 years later since I couldn’t find data for that year).

>

> 450 yards is only an average of 25 yards per hole, and yet the winning score was 4 strokes higher.

>

> Again, distance isn’t the boogey man some want it to be.

>

> Shall we continue? I can keep throwing indisputable facts at you, or you can just admit it isn’t ruining anything.

>

I don't think it pays to squabble with someone who uses the word "probably" twice in the same sentence......LOL!

oikos1 · November 13, 2019

> @LICC said:

> > @Golfjack said:

> > Why does it matter what courses the Pro's play at? It doesn't affect regular joes. How many times have most of us come up to a course that is short and shot under par? Until I'm just shooting under par at those short courses I'm not complaining. For the courses that want to host tournaments they just need to tighten the fairways and grow the rough and make the tournaments boring (which they will not). Instead they just keep making it longer.

>

> It affects golf fans who watch the pros.

Can't argue with that. Some like it, some don't. And yet the tournaments continue on.

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