Power on the PGA Tour......

LICC · November 12, 2019

> @Titleist99 said:

> > @Man_O_War said:

> > have to say harbor town holds its own for being a relatively short course. It's all in design.

>

> I agree, they don't have to be 7600 yards to be tough and entertaining....

Some former Majors courses that are now too short for the majors:

St. Louis

Canterbury

Northwood

Prestwick

Myopia

Five Farms

Wannamoisett

Chicago Golf Club

Titleist99 · November 12, 2019

> @Hawkeye77 said:

> > @Titleist99 said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > And surprise, back to the same old stuff as before - it was done to death.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Does that mean that you won't be posting in my thread again? Hope so !!

> > > > >

> > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @gvogel said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting concept. I can't think of a single golf course that is too short to host a competition where the lowest number of strokes wins.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in fact most all of the tour golf courses are insufficient in length to test the world's best players.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm taking this as well-known courses that wouldn't be able to provide a decent challenge for a PGA Tour event. Just looking at the Golf Digest Top 200 US:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cypress Point

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fishers Island

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Crystal Downs

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pacific Dunes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Camargo

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maidstone

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Essex County

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Myopia

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Montecito

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pasatiempo

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Creek

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eastward Ho!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > St. Louis

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fox Chapel

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fairfield

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting. I think every course on that list is long enough to host a stroke play event.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Pasatiempo, at 6500 yards, hosts the Western with top DI players who bomb it. I played it the week before the tournament this year, and it was playing tough. I think only 13 players in the field were under par after three rounds. -3 got you a T7.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Big difference when it comes to the Tour. 6 par-4s under 400 yards. A par-5 at only 500 yards. Half these guys would be at 5-under every round on these holes alone.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Ha! I'll go out on a limb and guess you've never played it. First, 6500 yards on the West Coast (the actual coast) isn't equivalent to 6500 yards on the East Coast. Not even close. Second, there's a bit more to the course than the length. If it had the room to host a PGA Tour event, I would bet my house that it wouldn't be the lowest winning score relative to par on tour.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I think you are really stretching on that one! These guys hit it really far and dial in their wedges really close on either coast. Whether it would be the lowest score to par on the whole Tour or not isn't the deciding factor. Whether it has enough length to provide enough of a challenge to be a respectable PGA Tour event is the question.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Yeah, maybe. Still, I think it would hold up just fine because it's a great design. It's wild to see certain classic courses still be able to challenge elite level players, and others have to resort to massive changes.

> > > > > > > > > A Sunday pin on #16 at Pasatiempo would be incredible to watch. At 387, it would be iron-wedge, for sure, but that's not the challenge of the hole. If you'd ever tried to clip one off that downslope a precise distance, or be facing almost certain three-putt, you'd know what I'm talking about. Mackenzie's favorite hole on his favorite US course.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Nice Post......you get the gist of the thread. Just putting that out there because the thread wreckers are coming....LOL!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Meaning what? I thought @"Ashley Schaeffer" and I had a good discussion on this with good points raised by both of us. Of course, my facts and analysis may counter your view, so let your freakout begin ... LOL!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Totally different discussion.....I simply asked for the names of the venues that a major tournament can't be played due to the power game PGA TOUR and explain why? That shouldn't be to hard for anyone with average intelligence......

> > > > >

> > > > > No, as usual, you didn't ask for anything even close to that. Pray tell where in the original post (goalposts, lol, which have been moved yet again) you were asking about hosting major tournaments.

> > > >

> > > > Well, the goal post is always on roller.....Just want to know the name of the obsolete golf course that is taken out of the rotation for major tournaments due to the power game of the PGA TOUR. easy peasy…….Some times it's not due to players length,

> > >

> > > Your original question didn’t ask about the rotation for majors. It just asked about courses not long enough for Tour pros. Which I gave a list. If you are now just asking about major rotas, that question is not as relevant because many courses have spent lots of money to lengthen in order to stay feasible for majors.

> >

> > Some say that the tour, with it's power game is making the old classic courses obsolete.....I simply want to know which courses and why....

>

> So not majors?

Many on this board has suggested that the old courses can not host a major tournament because the current crop of player have turned them into pitch and putts......which courses would that be?

LICC · November 12, 2019

> @Titleist99 said:

> > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > > And surprise, back to the same old stuff as before - it was done to death.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Does that mean that you won't be posting in my thread again? Hope so !!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @gvogel said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting concept. I can't think of a single golf course that is too short to host a competition where the lowest number of strokes wins.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in fact most all of the tour golf courses are insufficient in length to test the world's best players.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm taking this as well-known courses that wouldn't be able to provide a decent challenge for a PGA Tour event. Just looking at the Golf Digest Top 200 US:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cypress Point

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fishers Island

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Crystal Downs

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pacific Dunes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Camargo

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maidstone

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Essex County

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Myopia

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Montecito

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pasatiempo

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Creek

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eastward Ho!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > St. Louis

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fox Chapel

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fairfield

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting. I think every course on that list is long enough to host a stroke play event.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pasatiempo, at 6500 yards, hosts the Western with top DI players who bomb it. I played it the week before the tournament this year, and it was playing tough. I think only 13 players in the field were under par after three rounds. -3 got you a T7.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Big difference when it comes to the Tour. 6 par-4s under 400 yards. A par-5 at only 500 yards. Half these guys would be at 5-under every round on these holes alone.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Ha! I'll go out on a limb and guess you've never played it. First, 6500 yards on the West Coast (the actual coast) isn't equivalent to 6500 yards on the East Coast. Not even close. Second, there's a bit more to the course than the length. If it had the room to host a PGA Tour event, I would bet my house that it wouldn't be the lowest winning score relative to par on tour.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I think you are really stretching on that one! These guys hit it really far and dial in their wedges really close on either coast. Whether it would be the lowest score to par on the whole Tour or not isn't the deciding factor. Whether it has enough length to provide enough of a challenge to be a respectable PGA Tour event is the question.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Yeah, maybe. Still, I think it would hold up just fine because it's a great design. It's wild to see certain classic courses still be able to challenge elite level players, and others have to resort to massive changes.

> > > > > > > > > > A Sunday pin on #16 at Pasatiempo would be incredible to watch. At 387, it would be iron-wedge, for sure, but that's not the challenge of the hole. If you'd ever tried to clip one off that downslope a precise distance, or be facing almost certain three-putt, you'd know what I'm talking about. Mackenzie's favorite hole on his favorite US course.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Nice Post......you get the gist of the thread. Just putting that out there because the thread wreckers are coming....LOL!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Meaning what? I thought @"Ashley Schaeffer" and I had a good discussion on this with good points raised by both of us. Of course, my facts and analysis may counter your view, so let your freakout begin ... LOL!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Totally different discussion.....I simply asked for the names of the venues that a major tournament can't be played due to the power game PGA TOUR and explain why? That shouldn't be to hard for anyone with average intelligence......

> > > > > >

> > > > > > No, as usual, you didn't ask for anything even close to that. Pray tell where in the original post (goalposts, lol, which have been moved yet again) you were asking about hosting major tournaments.

> > > > >

> > > > > Well, the goal post is always on roller.....Just want to know the name of the obsolete golf course that is taken out of the rotation for major tournaments due to the power game of the PGA TOUR. easy peasy…….Some times it's not due to players length,

> > > >

> > > > Your original question didn’t ask about the rotation for majors. It just asked about courses not long enough for Tour pros. Which I gave a list. If you are now just asking about major rotas, that question is not as relevant because many courses have spent lots of money to lengthen in order to stay feasible for majors.

> > >

> > > Some say that the tour, with it's power game is making the old classic courses obsolete.....I simply want to know which courses and why....

> >

> > So not majors?

>

> Many on this board has suggested that the old courses can not host a major tournament because the current crop of player have turned them into pitch and putts......which courses would that be?

I just listed 8 former majors courses that are too short to be challenging enough to host majors now. Previously I listed 15 courses from the GD Best US list that are too short for the Tour (2 overlap). We also can name all the courses that had to add substantial length to stay relevant for majors. Yet you keep asking like no one has provided the names of the courses.

Titleist99 · November 12, 2019

> @LICC said:

> > @Titleist99 said:

> > > @Man_O_War said:

> > > have to say harbor town holds its own for being a relatively short course. It's all in design.

> >

> > I agree, they don't have to be 7600 yards to be tough and entertaining....

>

> Some former Majors courses that are now too short for the majors:

>

> St. Louis

> Canterbury

> Northwood

> Prestwick

> Myopia

> Five Farms

> Wannamoisett

> Chicago Golf Club

>

Thanks for your list. Now, lets discuss why you think that they're to short for a major tournament.

Lets take Canterbury first est. 1921 7000 yards....go!

Titleist99 · November 12, 2019

I once took a group of kids from the Boys Club there to clean the grounds during a tournament at Canterbury when I lived in the area.

That site could easily host a major tournament now...

Titleist99 · November 12, 2019

> @LICC said:

> > @Titleist99 said:

> > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > > > And surprise, back to the same old stuff as before - it was done to death.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Does that mean that you won't be posting in my thread again? Hope so !!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @gvogel said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting concept. I can't think of a single golf course that is too short to host a competition where the lowest number of strokes wins.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in fact most all of the tour golf courses are insufficient in length to test the world's best players.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm taking this as well-known courses that wouldn't be able to provide a decent challenge for a PGA Tour event. Just looking at the Golf Digest Top 200 US:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cypress Point

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fishers Island

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Crystal Downs

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pacific Dunes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Camargo

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maidstone

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Essex County

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Myopia

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Montecito

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pasatiempo

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Creek

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eastward Ho!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > St. Louis

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fox Chapel

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fairfield

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting. I think every course on that list is long enough to host a stroke play event.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pasatiempo, at 6500 yards, hosts the Western with top DI players who bomb it. I played it the week before the tournament this year, and it was playing tough. I think only 13 players in the field were under par after three rounds. -3 got you a T7.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Big difference when it comes to the Tour. 6 par-4s under 400 yards. A par-5 at only 500 yards. Half these guys would be at 5-under every round on these holes alone.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Ha! I'll go out on a limb and guess you've never played it. First, 6500 yards on the West Coast (the actual coast) isn't equivalent to 6500 yards on the East Coast. Not even close. Second, there's a bit more to the course than the length. If it had the room to host a PGA Tour event, I would bet my house that it wouldn't be the lowest winning score relative to par on tour.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I think you are really stretching on that one! These guys hit it really far and dial in their wedges really close on either coast. Whether it would be the lowest score to par on the whole Tour or not isn't the deciding factor. Whether it has enough length to provide enough of a challenge to be a respectable PGA Tour event is the question.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, maybe. Still, I think it would hold up just fine because it's a great design. It's wild to see certain classic courses still be able to challenge elite level players, and others have to resort to massive changes.

> > > > > > > > > > > A Sunday pin on #16 at Pasatiempo would be incredible to watch. At 387, it would be iron-wedge, for sure, but that's not the challenge of the hole. If you'd ever tried to clip one off that downslope a precise distance, or be facing almost certain three-putt, you'd know what I'm talking about. Mackenzie's favorite hole on his favorite US course.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Nice Post......you get the gist of the thread. Just putting that out there because the thread wreckers are coming....LOL!

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Meaning what? I thought @"Ashley Schaeffer" and I had a good discussion on this with good points raised by both of us. Of course, my facts and analysis may counter your view, so let your freakout begin ... LOL!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Totally different discussion.....I simply asked for the names of the venues that a major tournament can't be played due to the power game PGA TOUR and explain why? That shouldn't be to hard for anyone with average intelligence......

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > No, as usual, you didn't ask for anything even close to that. Pray tell where in the original post (goalposts, lol, which have been moved yet again) you were asking about hosting major tournaments.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Well, the goal post is always on roller.....Just want to know the name of the obsolete golf course that is taken out of the rotation for major tournaments due to the power game of the PGA TOUR. easy peasy…….Some times it's not due to players length,

> > > > >

> > > > > Your original question didn’t ask about the rotation for majors. It just asked about courses not long enough for Tour pros. Which I gave a list. If you are now just asking about major rotas, that question is not as relevant because many courses have spent lots of money to lengthen in order to stay feasible for majors.

> > > >

> > > > Some say that the tour, with it's power game is making the old classic courses obsolete.....I simply want to know which courses and why....

> > >

> > > So not majors?

> >

> > Many on this board has suggested that the old courses can not host a major tournament because the current crop of player have turned them into pitch and putts......which courses would that be?

>

> I just listed 8 former majors courses that are too short to be challenging enough to host majors now. Previously I listed 15 courses from the GD Best US list that are too short for the Tour (2 overlap). We also can name all the courses that had to add substantial length to stay relevant for majors. Yet you keep asking like no one has provided the names of the courses.

You have added nothing but a few abstract names and claim that they are to short from the championship tees....major championship venues are not solely based on yardage and who decided that the ones you listed as to short.

Canterbury is a little over 7000 yards....

LICC · November 12, 2019

> @Titleist99 said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > @Man_O_War said:

> > > > have to say harbor town holds its own for being a relatively short course. It's all in design.

> > >

> > > I agree, they don't have to be 7600 yards to be tough and entertaining....

> >

> > Some former Majors courses that are now too short for the majors:

> >

> > St. Louis

> > Canterbury

> > Northwood

> > Prestwick

> > Myopia

> > Five Farms

> > Wannamoisett

> > Chicago Golf Club

> >

>

> Thanks for your list. Now, lets discuss why you think that they're to short for a major tournament.

> Lets take Canterbury first est. 1921 7000 yards....go!

I missed that Canterbury substantially lengthened just three years ago. Previously it was too short. It probably still is for a major but you can put this one as it was too short and they had to lengthen to keep it relevant.

LICC · November 12, 2019

> @Titleist99 said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > > > > And surprise, back to the same old stuff as before - it was done to death.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Does that mean that you won't be posting in my thread again? Hope so !!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @gvogel said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting concept. I can't think of a single golf course that is too short to host a competition where the lowest number of strokes wins.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in fact most all of the tour golf courses are insufficient in length to test the world's best players.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm taking this as well-known courses that wouldn't be able to provide a decent challenge for a PGA Tour event. Just looking at the Golf Digest Top 200 US:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cypress Point

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fishers Island

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Crystal Downs

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pacific Dunes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Camargo

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maidstone

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Essex County

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Myopia

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Montecito

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pasatiempo

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Creek

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eastward Ho!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > St. Louis

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fox Chapel

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fairfield

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting. I think every course on that list is long enough to host a stroke play event.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pasatiempo, at 6500 yards, hosts the Western with top DI players who bomb it. I played it the week before the tournament this year, and it was playing tough. I think only 13 players in the field were under par after three rounds. -3 got you a T7.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Big difference when it comes to the Tour. 6 par-4s under 400 yards. A par-5 at only 500 yards. Half these guys would be at 5-under every round on these holes alone.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ha! I'll go out on a limb and guess you've never played it. First, 6500 yards on the West Coast (the actual coast) isn't equivalent to 6500 yards on the East Coast. Not even close. Second, there's a bit more to the course than the length. If it had the room to host a PGA Tour event, I would bet my house that it wouldn't be the lowest winning score relative to par on tour.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you are really stretching on that one! These guys hit it really far and dial in their wedges really close on either coast. Whether it would be the lowest score to par on the whole Tour or not isn't the deciding factor. Whether it has enough length to provide enough of a challenge to be a respectable PGA Tour event is the question.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, maybe. Still, I think it would hold up just fine because it's a great design. It's wild to see certain classic courses still be able to challenge elite level players, and others have to resort to massive changes.

> > > > > > > > > > > > A Sunday pin on #16 at Pasatiempo would be incredible to watch. At 387, it would be iron-wedge, for sure, but that's not the challenge of the hole. If you'd ever tried to clip one off that downslope a precise distance, or be facing almost certain three-putt, you'd know what I'm talking about. Mackenzie's favorite hole on his favorite US course.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Nice Post......you get the gist of the thread. Just putting that out there because the thread wreckers are coming....LOL!

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Meaning what? I thought @"Ashley Schaeffer" and I had a good discussion on this with good points raised by both of us. Of course, my facts and analysis may counter your view, so let your freakout begin ... LOL!

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Totally different discussion.....I simply asked for the names of the venues that a major tournament can't be played due to the power game PGA TOUR and explain why? That shouldn't be to hard for anyone with average intelligence......

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > No, as usual, you didn't ask for anything even close to that. Pray tell where in the original post (goalposts, lol, which have been moved yet again) you were asking about hosting major tournaments.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Well, the goal post is always on roller.....Just want to know the name of the obsolete golf course that is taken out of the rotation for major tournaments due to the power game of the PGA TOUR. easy peasy…….Some times it's not due to players length,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Your original question didn’t ask about the rotation for majors. It just asked about courses not long enough for Tour pros. Which I gave a list. If you are now just asking about major rotas, that question is not as relevant because many courses have spent lots of money to lengthen in order to stay feasible for majors.

> > > > >

> > > > > Some say that the tour, with it's power game is making the old classic courses obsolete.....I simply want to know which courses and why....

> > > >

> > > > So not majors?

> > >

> > > Many on this board has suggested that the old courses can not host a major tournament because the current crop of player have turned them into pitch and putts......which courses would that be?

> >

> > I just listed 8 former majors courses that are too short to be challenging enough to host majors now. Previously I listed 15 courses from the GD Best US list that are too short for the Tour (2 overlap). We also can name all the courses that had to add substantial length to stay relevant for majors. Yet you keep asking like no one has provided the names of the courses.

>

> You have added nothing but a few abstract names and claim that they are to short from the championship tees....major championship venues are not solely based on yardage and who decided that the ones you listed as to short.

> Canterbury is a little over 7000 yards....

Straw man. Of course they are not SOLELY based on yardage. But the ones I listed are too short at a minimum to provide an effective challenge to the Tour pros, so no need to even consider other features.

Titleist99 · November 12, 2019

> @LICC said:

> > @Titleist99 said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > @Man_O_War said:

> > > > > have to say harbor town holds its own for being a relatively short course. It's all in design.

> > > >

> > > > I agree, they don't have to be 7600 yards to be tough and entertaining....

> > >

> > > Some former Majors courses that are now too short for the majors:

> > >

> > > St. Louis

> > > Canterbury

> > > Northwood

> > > Prestwick

> > > Myopia

> > > Five Farms

> > > Wannamoisett

> > > Chicago Golf Club

> > >

> >

> > Thanks for your list. Now, lets discuss why you think that they're to short for a major tournament.

> > Lets take Canterbury first est. 1921 7000 yards....go!

>

> I missed that Canterbury substantially lengthened just three years ago. Previously it was too short. It probably still is for a major but you can put this one as it was too short and they had to lengthen to keep it relevant.

Glad that you reluctantly admitted that.....

We just watched a tournament at Chicago Golf Club....it can be stretched out over 7000 yards. How is that to short?

Titleist99 · November 12, 2019

> @Titleist99 said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > @Man_O_War said:

> > > > have to say harbor town holds its own for being a relatively short course. It's all in design.

> > >

> > > I agree, they don't have to be 7600 yards to be tough and entertaining....

> >

> > Some former Majors courses that are now too short for the majors:

> >

> > St. Louis

> > Canterbury

> > Northwood

> > Prestwick

> > Myopia

> > Five Farms

> > Wannamoisett

> > Chicago Golf Club

> >

>

> Thanks for your list. Now, lets discuss why you think that they're to short for a major tournament.

> Lets take Canterbury first est. 1921 7000 yards....go!

What major tournament did Five Farm Golf course host?

LICC · November 12, 2019

> @Titleist99 said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > @Man_O_War said:

> > > > > > have to say harbor town holds its own for being a relatively short course. It's all in design.

> > > > >

> > > > > I agree, they don't have to be 7600 yards to be tough and entertaining....

> > > >

> > > > Some former Majors courses that are now too short for the majors:

> > > >

> > > > St. Louis

> > > > Canterbury

> > > > Northwood

> > > > Prestwick

> > > > Myopia

> > > > Five Farms

> > > > Wannamoisett

> > > > Chicago Golf Club

> > > >

> > >

> > > Thanks for your list. Now, lets discuss why you think that they're to short for a major tournament.

> > > Lets take Canterbury first est. 1921 7000 yards....go!

> >

> > I missed that Canterbury substantially lengthened just three years ago. Previously it was too short. It probably still is for a major but you can put this one as it was too short and they had to lengthen to keep it relevant.

>

> Glad that you reluctantly admitted that.....

>

> We just watched a tournament at Chicago Golf Club....it can be stretched out over 7000 yards. How is that to short?

It’s current configuration is not 7000 yards. It has to be “stretched out” beyond its existing back tees to attempt to be competitive. The MGA Open was at Piping Rock. They had to set up back tees on tee boxes of different holes (E.g., players playing the 18th teed off from the forward tees on 17) to get the course to be long enough. They also ran the stimps to 14 and scores still were low (partly because rain softened the course for two of three days). 13 under won the three round tournament

LICC · November 12, 2019

> @Titleist99 said:

> > @Titleist99 said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > @Man_O_War said:

> > > > > have to say harbor town holds its own for being a relatively short course. It's all in design.

> > > >

> > > > I agree, they don't have to be 7600 yards to be tough and entertaining....

> > >

> > > Some former Majors courses that are now too short for the majors:

> > >

> > > St. Louis

> > > Canterbury

> > > Northwood

> > > Prestwick

> > > Myopia

> > > Five Farms

> > > Wannamoisett

> > > Chicago Golf Club

> > >

> >

> > Thanks for your list. Now, lets discuss why you think that they're to short for a major tournament.

> > Lets take Canterbury first est. 1921 7000 yards....go!

>

> What major tournament did Five Farm Golf course host?

“Its current golf facility at Five Farms has two courses, its East Course was designed by A. W. Tillinghast. It hosted the PGA Championship in 1928, the U.S. Women's Open in 1988, the U.S. Amateur in 1932, the Walker Cup in 1965, and the Champions Tour's Senior Players Championship.”

Titleist99 · November 12, 2019

> @LICC said:

> > @Titleist99 said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > @Man_O_War said:

> > > > > > > have to say harbor town holds its own for being a relatively short course. It's all in design.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I agree, they don't have to be 7600 yards to be tough and entertaining....

> > > > >

> > > > > Some former Majors courses that are now too short for the majors:

> > > > >

> > > > > St. Louis

> > > > > Canterbury

> > > > > Northwood

> > > > > Prestwick

> > > > > Myopia

> > > > > Five Farms

> > > > > Wannamoisett

> > > > > Chicago Golf Club

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for your list. Now, lets discuss why you think that they're to short for a major tournament.

> > > > Lets take Canterbury first est. 1921 7000 yards....go!

> > >

> > > I missed that Canterbury substantially lengthened just three years ago. Previously it was too short. It probably still is for a major but you can put this one as it was too short and they had to lengthen to keep it relevant.

> >

> > Glad that you reluctantly admitted that.....

> >

> > We just watched a tournament at Chicago Golf Club....it can be stretched out over 7000 yards. How is that to short?

>

> It’s current configuration is not 7000 yards. It has to be “stretched out” beyond its existing back tees to attempt to be competitive. The MGA Open was at Piping Rock. They had to set up back tees on tee boxes of different holes (E.g., players playing the 18th teed off from the forward tees on 17) to get the course to be long enough. They also ran the stimps to 14 and scores still were low (partly because rain softened the course for two of three days). 13 under won the three round tournament

Chicago golf club 1892 Par 70 6950 yards...… long enough for any major championship...

Titleist99 · November 12, 2019

> @LICC said:

> > @Titleist99 said:

> > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > @Man_O_War said:

> > > > > > have to say harbor town holds its own for being a relatively short course. It's all in design.

> > > > >

> > > > > I agree, they don't have to be 7600 yards to be tough and entertaining....

> > > >

> > > > Some former Majors courses that are now too short for the majors:

> > > >

> > > > St. Louis

> > > > Canterbury

> > > > Northwood

> > > > Prestwick

> > > > Myopia

> > > > Five Farms

> > > > Wannamoisett

> > > > Chicago Golf Club

> > > >

> > >

> > > Thanks for your list. Now, lets discuss why you think that they're to short for a major tournament.

> > > Lets take Canterbury first est. 1921 7000 yards....go!

> >

> > What major tournament did Five Farm Golf course host?

>

> “Its current golf facility at Five Farms has two courses, its East Course was designed by A. W. Tillinghast. It hosted the PGA Championship in 1928, the U.S. Women's Open in 1988, the U.S. Amateur in 1932, the Walker Cup in 1965, and the Champions Tour's Senior Players Championship.”

Point number 1. we're talking mens power game.

Point number 2. Last championship held there was 1928.....Really Dude!?!

Point number 3. Myopia has not hosted a major tournament since 1908.

SNIPERBBB · November 12, 2019

I don't get theTEST thing then demand 8000yard courses.

If you wanted something to be a test, setup a tournament that mandates the club used off the tee and the approach shot club on each hole.

LICC · November 12, 2019

> @Titleist99 said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > @Man_O_War said:

> > > > > > > > have to say harbor town holds its own for being a relatively short course. It's all in design.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I agree, they don't have to be 7600 yards to be tough and entertaining....

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Some former Majors courses that are now too short for the majors:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > St. Louis

> > > > > > Canterbury

> > > > > > Northwood

> > > > > > Prestwick

> > > > > > Myopia

> > > > > > Five Farms

> > > > > > Wannamoisett

> > > > > > Chicago Golf Club

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks for your list. Now, lets discuss why you think that they're to short for a major tournament.

> > > > > Lets take Canterbury first est. 1921 7000 yards....go!

> > > >

> > > > I missed that Canterbury substantially lengthened just three years ago. Previously it was too short. It probably still is for a major but you can put this one as it was too short and they had to lengthen to keep it relevant.

> > >

> > > Glad that you reluctantly admitted that.....

> > >

> > > We just watched a tournament at Chicago Golf Club....it can be stretched out over 7000 yards. How is that to short?

> >

> > It’s current configuration is not 7000 yards. It has to be “stretched out” beyond its existing back tees to attempt to be competitive. The MGA Open was at Piping Rock. They had to set up back tees on tee boxes of different holes (E.g., players playing the 18th teed off from the forward tees on 17) to get the course to be long enough. They also ran the stimps to 14 and scores still were low (partly because rain softened the course for two of three days). 13 under won the three round tournament

>

> Chicago golf club 1892 Par 70 6950 yards...… long enough for any major championship...

It’s back tees are under 6,900. And 6950 is not long enough for any major championship. Not with today’s distances. It would turn a major into a joke or a tricked up show.

LICC · November 12, 2019

> @Titleist99 said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > @Man_O_War said:

> > > > > > > have to say harbor town holds its own for being a relatively short course. It's all in design.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I agree, they don't have to be 7600 yards to be tough and entertaining....

> > > > >

> > > > > Some former Majors courses that are now too short for the majors:

> > > > >

> > > > > St. Louis

> > > > > Canterbury

> > > > > Northwood

> > > > > Prestwick

> > > > > Myopia

> > > > > Five Farms

> > > > > Wannamoisett

> > > > > Chicago Golf Club

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for your list. Now, lets discuss why you think that they're to short for a major tournament.

> > > > Lets take Canterbury first est. 1921 7000 yards....go!

> > >

> > > What major tournament did Five Farm Golf course host?

> >

> > “Its current golf facility at Five Farms has two courses, its East Course was designed by A. W. Tillinghast. It hosted the PGA Championship in 1928, the U.S. Women's Open in 1988, the U.S. Amateur in 1932, the Walker Cup in 1965, and the Champions Tour's Senior Players Championship.”

>

> Point number 1. we're talking mens power game.

>

> Point number 2. Last championship held there was 1928.....Really Dude!?!

Actually 1932- the US Amateur was considered a major then. And so what that it was 1932. It is one of the highest ranked courses in America and it is to short to be considered for a major.

Titleist99 · November 12, 2019

> @LICC said:

> > @Titleist99 said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > @Man_O_War said:

> > > > > > > > have to say harbor town holds its own for being a relatively short course. It's all in design.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I agree, they don't have to be 7600 yards to be tough and entertaining....

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Some former Majors courses that are now too short for the majors:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > St. Louis

> > > > > > Canterbury

> > > > > > Northwood

> > > > > > Prestwick

> > > > > > Myopia

> > > > > > Five Farms

> > > > > > Wannamoisett

> > > > > > Chicago Golf Club

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks for your list. Now, lets discuss why you think that they're to short for a major tournament.

> > > > > Lets take Canterbury first est. 1921 7000 yards....go!

> > > >

> > > > What major tournament did Five Farm Golf course host?

> > >

> > > “Its current golf facility at Five Farms has two courses, its East Course was designed by A. W. Tillinghast. It hosted the PGA Championship in 1928, the U.S. Women's Open in 1988, the U.S. Amateur in 1932, the Walker Cup in 1965, and the Champions Tour's Senior Players Championship.”

> >

> > Point number 1. we're talking mens power game.

> >

> > Point number 2. Last championship held there was 1928.....Really Dude!?!

>

> Actually 1932- the US Amateur was considered a major then. And so what that it was 1932. It is one of the highest ranked courses in America and it is to short to be considered for a major.

Again we are talking mens pga tour not bobby jones era. So this is one of the courses that you are worried won't be able to host a major tournament....LOL!

Titleist99 · November 12, 2019

> @LICC said:

> > @Titleist99 said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > > @Man_O_War said:

> > > > > > > > > have to say harbor town holds its own for being a relatively short course. It's all in design.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I agree, they don't have to be 7600 yards to be tough and entertaining....

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Some former Majors courses that are now too short for the majors:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > St. Louis

> > > > > > > Canterbury

> > > > > > > Northwood

> > > > > > > Prestwick

> > > > > > > Myopia

> > > > > > > Five Farms

> > > > > > > Wannamoisett

> > > > > > > Chicago Golf Club

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks for your list. Now, lets discuss why you think that they're to short for a major tournament.

> > > > > > Lets take Canterbury first est. 1921 7000 yards....go!

> > > > >

> > > > > I missed that Canterbury substantially lengthened just three years ago. Previously it was too short. It probably still is for a major but you can put this one as it was too short and they had to lengthen to keep it relevant.

> > > >

> > > > Glad that you reluctantly admitted that.....

> > > >

> > > > We just watched a tournament at Chicago Golf Club....it can be stretched out over 7000 yards. How is that to short?

> > >

> > > It’s current configuration is not 7000 yards. It has to be “stretched out” beyond its existing back tees to attempt to be competitive. The MGA Open was at Piping Rock. They had to set up back tees on tee boxes of different holes (E.g., players playing the 18th teed off from the forward tees on 17) to get the course to be long enough. They also ran the stimps to 14 and scores still were low (partly because rain softened the course for two of three days). 13 under won the three round tournament

> >

> > Chicago golf club 1892 Par 70 6950 yards...… long enough for any major championship...

>

> It’s back tees are under 6,900. And 6950 is not long enough for any major championship. Not with today’s distances. It would turn a major into a joke or a tricked up show

Sooo, let me get this straight we can have a Major Tournament at Merion 6500 yards and Pebble Beach Golf course at 7040

yards but Chicago golf Club is to short at 6950 yards for a Major Tournament....

butterysnaphook · November 12, 2019

I think we should host all major championships on the moon. That type of gravity is the only thing that can end this once and for all.

oikos1 · November 12, 2019

> @LICC said:

> > @Titleist99 said:

> > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > > > And surprise, back to the same old stuff as before - it was done to death.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Does that mean that you won't be posting in my thread again? Hope so !!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @gvogel said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting concept. I can't think of a single golf course that is too short to host a competition where the lowest number of strokes wins.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in fact most all of the tour golf courses are insufficient in length to test the world's best players.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm taking this as well-known courses that wouldn't be able to provide a decent challenge for a PGA Tour event. Just looking at the Golf Digest Top 200 US:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cypress Point

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fishers Island

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Crystal Downs

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pacific Dunes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Camargo

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maidstone

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Essex County

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Myopia

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Montecito

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pasatiempo

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Creek

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eastward Ho!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > St. Louis

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fox Chapel

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fairfield

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting. I think every course on that list is long enough to host a stroke play event.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pasatiempo, at 6500 yards, hosts the Western with top DI players who bomb it. I played it the week before the tournament this year, and it was playing tough. I think only 13 players in the field were under par after three rounds. -3 got you a T7.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Big difference when it comes to the Tour. 6 par-4s under 400 yards. A par-5 at only 500 yards. Half these guys would be at 5-under every round on these holes alone.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Ha! I'll go out on a limb and guess you've never played it. First, 6500 yards on the West Coast (the actual coast) isn't equivalent to 6500 yards on the East Coast. Not even close. Second, there's a bit more to the course than the length. If it had the room to host a PGA Tour event, I would bet my house that it wouldn't be the lowest winning score relative to par on tour.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I think you are really stretching on that one! These guys hit it really far and dial in their wedges really close on either coast. Whether it would be the lowest score to par on the whole Tour or not isn't the deciding factor. Whether it has enough length to provide enough of a challenge to be a respectable PGA Tour event is the question.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, maybe. Still, I think it would hold up just fine because it's a great design. It's wild to see certain classic courses still be able to challenge elite level players, and others have to resort to massive changes.

> > > > > > > > > > > A Sunday pin on #16 at Pasatiempo would be incredible to watch. At 387, it would be iron-wedge, for sure, but that's not the challenge of the hole. If you'd ever tried to clip one off that downslope a precise distance, or be facing almost certain three-putt, you'd know what I'm talking about. Mackenzie's favorite hole on his favorite US course.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Nice Post......you get the gist of the thread. Just putting that out there because the thread wreckers are coming....LOL!

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Meaning what? I thought @"Ashley Schaeffer" and I had a good discussion on this with good points raised by both of us. Of course, my facts and analysis may counter your view, so let your freakout begin ... LOL!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Totally different discussion.....I simply asked for the names of the venues that a major tournament can't be played due to the power game PGA TOUR and explain why? That shouldn't be to hard for anyone with average intelligence......

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > No, as usual, you didn't ask for anything even close to that. Pray tell where in the original post (goalposts, lol, which have been moved yet again) you were asking about hosting major tournaments.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Well, the goal post is always on roller.....Just want to know the name of the obsolete golf course that is taken out of the rotation for major tournaments due to the power game of the PGA TOUR. easy peasy…….Some times it's not due to players length,

> > > > >

> > > > > Your original question didn’t ask about the rotation for majors. It just asked about courses not long enough for Tour pros. Which I gave a list. If you are now just asking about major rotas, that question is not as relevant because many courses have spent lots of money to lengthen in order to stay feasible for majors.

> > > >

> > > > Some say that the tour, with it's power game is making the old classic courses obsolete.....I simply want to know which courses and why....

> > >

> > > So not majors?

> >

> > Many on this board has suggested that the old courses can not host a major tournament because the current crop of player have turned them into pitch and putts......which courses would that be?

>

> I just listed 8 former majors courses that are too short to be challenging enough to host majors now. Previously I listed 15 courses from the GD Best US list that are too short for the Tour (2 overlap). We also can name all the courses that had to add substantial length to stay relevant for majors. Yet you keep asking like no one has provided the names of the courses.

Oh the irony. However, I am enjoying the thread.

rangersgoalie · November 12, 2019

naming a lot of great courses.....

still great for their members.....

most resisting the stupidity of lengthening their courses to fight <1% that COULD overpower them

I am truly amazed by some of these discussions

bladehunter · November 12, 2019

> @rangersgoalie said:

> naming a lot of great courses.....

> still great for their members.....

> most resisting the stupidity of lengthening their courses to fight <1% that COULD overpower them

>

> I am truly amazed by some of these discussions

It is a curiosity for sure when you look at who consistently starts them vs who ends up griping about the outcome the most.

Hawkeye77 · November 12, 2019

When they aren’t started for any reason other than “what can I come up with” ...........

LICC · November 12, 2019

> @Titleist99 said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > > @Man_O_War said:

> > > > > > > > > have to say harbor town holds its own for being a relatively short course. It's all in design.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I agree, they don't have to be 7600 yards to be tough and entertaining....

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Some former Majors courses that are now too short for the majors:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > St. Louis

> > > > > > > Canterbury

> > > > > > > Northwood

> > > > > > > Prestwick

> > > > > > > Myopia

> > > > > > > Five Farms

> > > > > > > Wannamoisett

> > > > > > > Chicago Golf Club

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks for your list. Now, lets discuss why you think that they're to short for a major tournament.

> > > > > > Lets take Canterbury first est. 1921 7000 yards....go!

> > > > >

> > > > > What major tournament did Five Farm Golf course host?

> > > >

> > > > “Its current golf facility at Five Farms has two courses, its East Course was designed by A. W. Tillinghast. It hosted the PGA Championship in 1928, the U.S. Women's Open in 1988, the U.S. Amateur in 1932, the Walker Cup in 1965, and the Champions Tour's Senior Players Championship.”

> > >

> > > Point number 1. we're talking mens power game.

> > >

> > > Point number 2. Last championship held there was 1928.....Really Dude!?!

> >

> > Actually 1932- the US Amateur was considered a major then. And so what that it was 1932. It is one of the highest ranked courses in America and it is to short to be considered for a major.

>

> Again we are talking mens pga tour not bobby jones era. So this is one of the courses that you are worried won't be able to host a major tournament....LOL!

Why change the question again? So only courses used for majors since 1969 ... any other restrictions that you want to impose?

LICC · November 12, 2019

> @Titleist99 said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > > > @Man_O_War said:

> > > > > > > > > > have to say harbor town holds its own for being a relatively short course. It's all in design.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I agree, they don't have to be 7600 yards to be tough and entertaining....

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Some former Majors courses that are now too short for the majors:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > St. Louis

> > > > > > > > Canterbury

> > > > > > > > Northwood

> > > > > > > > Prestwick

> > > > > > > > Myopia

> > > > > > > > Five Farms

> > > > > > > > Wannamoisett

> > > > > > > > Chicago Golf Club

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks for your list. Now, lets discuss why you think that they're to short for a major tournament.

> > > > > > > Lets take Canterbury first est. 1921 7000 yards....go!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I missed that Canterbury substantially lengthened just three years ago. Previously it was too short. It probably still is for a major but you can put this one as it was too short and they had to lengthen to keep it relevant.

> > > > >

> > > > > Glad that you reluctantly admitted that.....

> > > > >

> > > > > We just watched a tournament at Chicago Golf Club....it can be stretched out over 7000 yards. How is that to short?

> > > >

> > > > It’s current configuration is not 7000 yards. It has to be “stretched out” beyond its existing back tees to attempt to be competitive. The MGA Open was at Piping Rock. They had to set up back tees on tee boxes of different holes (E.g., players playing the 18th teed off from the forward tees on 17) to get the course to be long enough. They also ran the stimps to 14 and scores still were low (partly because rain softened the course for two of three days). 13 under won the three round tournament

> > >

> > > Chicago golf club 1892 Par 70 6950 yards...… long enough for any major championship...

> >

> > It’s back tees are under 6,900. And 6950 is not long enough for any major championship. Not with today’s distances. It would turn a major into a joke or a tricked up show

>

> Sooo, let me get this straight we can have a Major Tournament at Merion 6500 yards and Pebble Beach Golf course at 7040

> yards but Chicago golf Club is to short at 6950 yards for a Major Tournament....

It’s not 6950. You are defeating your own premise. You are using as an example a course that has to be lengthened beyond its current configuration for tournaments that aren’t even PGA Tour events.

LICC · November 12, 2019

> @rangersgoalie said:

> naming a lot of great courses.....

> still great for their members.....

> most resisting the stupidity of lengthening their courses to fight <1% that COULD overpower them

>

> I am truly amazed by some of these discussions

I agree with you. I’m not calling for changing these courses. I’m naming courses that the OP asked for.

gvogel · November 12, 2019

> @Man_O_War said:

> have to say harbor town holds its own for being a relatively short course. It's all in design

A lot of the longer players pass that one up, because who wants to hit iron off the tee all the time.

puttingmatt · November 12, 2019

Frankly, if they narrowed all the over yardage landing areas, you would put a premium on driver accuracy,

And GIR , but when the pro's can cut across fairways to get on the greens. Without a penalty , the courses

Have gotten to generous with the landing areas. Makes it great for tv though.

gvogel · November 12, 2019

> @Titleist99 said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > > > @Man_O_War said:

> > > > > > > > > > have to say harbor town holds its own for being a relatively short course. It's all in design.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I agree, they don't have to be 7600 yards to be tough and entertaining....

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Some former Majors courses that are now too short for the majors:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > St. Louis

> > > > > > > > Canterbury

> > > > > > > > Northwood

> > > > > > > > Prestwick

> > > > > > > > Myopia

> > > > > > > > Five Farms

> > > > > > > > Wannamoisett

> > > > > > > > Chicago Golf Club

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks for your list. Now, lets discuss why you think that they're to short for a major tournament.

> > > > > > > Lets take Canterbury first est. 1921 7000 yards....go!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I missed that Canterbury substantially lengthened just three years ago. Previously it was too short. It probably still is for a major but you can put this one as it was too short and they had to lengthen to keep it relevant.

> > > > >

> > > > > Glad that you reluctantly admitted that.....

> > > > >

> > > > > We just watched a tournament at Chicago Golf Club....it can be stretched out over 7000 yards. How is that to short?

> > > >

> > > > It’s current configuration is not 7000 yards. It has to be “stretched out” beyond its existing back tees to attempt to be competitive. The MGA Open was at Piping Rock. They had to set up back tees on tee boxes of different holes (E.g., players playing the 18th teed off from the forward tees on 17) to get the course to be long enough. They also ran the stimps to 14 and scores still were low (partly because rain softened the course for two of three days). 13 under won the three round tournament

> > >

> > > Chicago golf club 1892 Par 70 6950 yards...… long enough for any major championship...

> >

> > It’s back tees are under 6,900. And 6950 is not long enough for any major championship. Not with today’s distances. It would turn a major into a joke or a tricked up show

>

> Sooo, let me get this straight we can have a Major Tournament at Merion 6500 yards and Pebble Beach Golf course at 7040

> yards but Chicago golf Club is to short at 6950 yards for a Major Tournament....

Merion was 6,500 yards, but it was lengthened to nearly 7,000 for the US Open. At that, it would have been too easy, but they grew the rough to ridiculous lengths and got the greens to ridiculously fast speeds to keep the players near par. In reality, it is too short. But the USGA will go back there because of the history.