Why do instructors keep harping on the grip?

[Hawkeye77]

Your experience is your experience. Overgeneralizing it and transferring it to instructors in general seems like and has become more of a rant. No way we'll ever have any full context or way of knowing what happened with one of your kids, but again, that is your experience.

 

 

[DShepley]

Lots of players throughout history have had what most instructors would class as less than ideal backswings, so what is correct? If someone changed Furyk and Wolff's backswings we probably wouldn't know who they are. How about Daly across the line and way past parallel, or Snead being inside back and over on the way down? Through history, lots of great players took it away inside and were over on the downswing. A sound backswing might make it easier to transition into a good downswing, but what is sound? If a player reaches the top in a good position, how they got there isn't overly important.

[Krt22]

Key term there, GREAT PLAYERS. Your weekend 25 cap doesn't have the talent or athleticism to get back to the ball if they get way out of position in the backswing, hence being stuck at 25 for their entire golf career. And the position at the top isn't just a static check off, it's a dynamic position, so how you get there absolutely is important because it influences what happens next in transition.

[MPStrat]

But those guys you mentioned all have great backswings that match their downswings. I agree that a lot of teachers would have changed Furyk and Wolff for the sake of aesthetics.

[DShepley]

Sure, but there was a point in time in Furyk's life and Wolff's life when they were learning and didn't carry a plus handicap index and that holds true for all of the great players. They weren't always great and though I don't know, I expect that they learned how to match things up on their own without much intervention from coaches. If an instructor had changed them early on in life, would we know who they are?

[DShepley]

Yes and it might not have made them better. Great backswing is pretty subjective I would say....they all get into a great athletic stance at the end of their transition and that is much more important than how they moved off of the ball, which is my point.

[Krt22]

Most of the greats today were great early as well, Wolff won a ton as a freshman and won on tour at age 20, it's laughable to think he wasn't anything but hyper talented as a kid. Folks who use odd-ball greats as a reason to have a wacky swing simply are looking for something for nothing. The reason most people are bad at golf is because they have bad swings, if you want to get better you gotta put in the work, there is no magic in a bottle.

[MPStrat]

I don't think great backswing is subjective. Pretty is subjective. But there are many ways amateurs can move off the ball as you describe, that make it very difficult or impossible to get into a "great athletic stance" in transition.

[18thbunker]

Grip - personally, wrong grip is the main reason I go to shank city.

[Krt22]

Indeed. The golf swing is a kinematic sequence, I'm not sure how some people think you can get into a great impact position if you get way out of position early. It's like trying to win a 100m sprint by skipping the starting blocks and zig zagging between the lanes instead of just running straight.

[DShepley]

I agree that there are many poor ways to move off of the ball which is why I said that 'if a player reaches the top in good position' it doesn't really matter how they got there. I think there are a lot of teaching pros who would change a players backswing based purely on looks and not function. If the player transitions into a good place, then how they got there doesn't much matter.

[GoGoErky]

I caught a small bit of the Cuomo series on GC he did with Wolff and GG. Wolf had some issues with his swing that he got away with but it sounded like things drastically improved when he started working with GG.

[DShepley]

Would those odd-ball greats still be great if an instructor had told them that their backswing mattered? Their transition matters, how they got there doesn't, clearly there isn't just one way. For a total beginner, it may be easier to teach them a symmetrical swing, it might also be easier for them to work with their natural tendency if it allows for an athletic move.

[Krt22]

Disagree. How you get to the top absolutely matters as that is not a static position. There is more than one functional pattern/match up for for sure, but there are also death moves that are extremely hard to recover from and make good golf extremely difficult to achieve. Why work harder than you need to

[MonteScheinblum]

Furyk and woolfe have great backswings.

Most golfers who shoot over 80 do not.

PS-“Tour players X does __________,” isn’t an argument that makes it okay to do it.

Freddie couples gets his elbow way away from him, goes way across the line, has a big cup in his wrist.......and was amazing. The number of golfers allowed to keep all of those things in their backswing and improve is the same as Blutarski’s GPA.

Elite players at any age are not taught the same way as handicappers.

[MPStrat]

I have no disagreement there. But that doesn't make "you don't hit it with the backswing" any less false

[Paddy_2_Iron]

My point is to stop HARPING on the grip. Some people have limitations, comfort levels, body types, etc....

I wholeheartedly agree letting the player learn (A) grip, but once they do stop trying to change it and get it to some perfect grip. If they are a little weak or strong LET IT GO, that's their golf personality now teach them sequence in the swing, backswing, take away, proper sequencing with lowerbody and upper.

Stop trying to make someone have Tigers grip it's idiotic! And yes I have been to several instructors and my kids as well and a lot of these instructors can't get past the grip, they are always bring it up. LET IT GO and teach the person something that's going to help them!

[MonteScheinblum]

I enjoy spending time with my exwife more than I like changing people’s grips.

i only do it when it’s absolutely the root cause of the problem.

There is no universal correct grip, but there are certainly grips that prevent people from not being terrible.

[Hawkeye77]

LOL, "LET IT GO" seems to be the most relevant phrase.

[glk]

How one gets there certainly does matter. I've seen more backswing around here that look good at the top but are flawed because of how they arrived at the top - one example, people take the club outside by moving arms away from body, end up having to lift arms to complete the swing (and sometimes complete the turn with their shoulders not their torso) - can look pretty good at the top - but disconnected, insufficient torso turn, and out of synch with little hope in fixing it in transition.

And pros certainly work on their backswing.

[DShepley]

What makes a great backswing though, what criteria? In very simple terms, the backswing is a means to create distance between the club head and the ball so you can create enough force to hit the ball. Let me ask you this, do you even need a backswing? For instance, if you started from a static top position with the club, hands, face, body etc., in a good fundamental position, could you learn to hit the ball from there as well as if you started with the club behind the ball? I'm willing to bet that a player could learn to do this without giving up much distance or accuracy. Heck, Monte could likely beat us all starting from a static top position, (this could be a good hustle!). Kind of like Gankas' freezers but starting from there.

[glk]

Your data set is way too small to be making generalizations. As noted, it's your experience. Best directed at those teachers in a constructive fashion.

[DShepley]

What I said was that if the player gets into a good position at the top that allows for a good transition down, then it doesn't matter how they got there. What you are describing is a player who doesn't get into a good position to make a good transition. Also, sandwiches are great

[glk]

There is certainly variability in people's golf swings - AMG has pretty much given a lot of data on what the pros do versus am - in pretty much all facets of the swing, pressure, sequence of movement, tilts, etc.

[DShepley]

The AMG guys are great, I really like their stuff.

[glk]

You said transition matters and not how they got there - not too many folks have good transition given a poorly sequenced, etc backswing.

 

Warren appreciates you like sandwiches.

[LyinEye]

You guys need to get a grip. A backswing matters only to those who believe it matters.

[DShepley]

But it's snowing here and this is all I've got......

[stingerfade]

Another thread where the questions asked are rhetorical since OP knows everything already lol

[iteachgolf]

Would be best to see real instructors who make it their singular living to be great at teaching. Not someone teaching lessons for some extra spending money. You will likely have to spend more than $50-75 a lesson but will be cheaper in the long run