USGA DISTANCE INSIGHT

[golfer07840]

MLB is so regional too. You living in SC. What's the closest team? I guess the Braves?

I like MLB, but I mostly follow along using my Yahoo sports app until playoff time. Even then, I don't watch every pitch the way I used to. I can't stand 4 hour baseball games.

[OrangeGravy]

You can't stop it, but eventually it gets so bad it stops itself. I played baseball in college and coached (sometimes still do) Legion age baseball, and I still can't watch more than a couple at bats of MLB baseball. I enjoy watching baseball live. High School, College, or our local rookie ball team. We have a wood bat summer league for college players in the region that is fun as well. Basically any baseball where the players aren't getting paid is still passable.

[smashdn]

Who would you pick in a closest to the pin contest from 190, Luke Donald or Dustin Johnson, Zach Johnson or Brooks Koepka, Tiger or Cam Champ? All of the latter players have the advantage of having a "shorter" iron into the green but has their distance advantage been negated by a player with more long iron skill?

Golf isn't a driving contest no more than it is a putting contest. You need to be able to do all things relatively well. When golf is most entertaining, to me anyways, is when there are multiple styles of players that have a chance to win. A 7400 yard course the shorter guys just don't stand a chance anymore (when there is a true full field and players aren't sitting out).

 

[smashdn]

Unless the PGA Tour is an entertainment product.

[bladehunter]

Yea. But I’m a cubs fan ! Lol. I gave up on them before they finally won a series. But sandberg , Dawson , grace ,dunston, and Harry carry were my summer viewing preference.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

Dude, I’m there with you. I’ve convinced myself many times of both ways in your hypothetical...on the same day. I’ve gone from thinking I should get a (real, not driving) 2-iron to wishing my 8-iron was a hybrid...in the same round. In college, I played MP-29s and Ping ISIs in consecutive tournament rounds...on the same day!!!

[smashdn]

Do we wait for there to be a decline in viewership/attendance (if PGA Tour golf is an entertainment product) or start addressing it before a decline?

 

And to be fair, I don't know whether or not viewership is down or not. I know I personally am not watching. I tune in for a few reasons, compelling venue, major or extra strong field/compelling storyline within the field. I'm probably in the minority and that is fine.

[bladehunter]

Ha! I knew you were crazy too ! You literally read my mind.

It’s like I want to think all one way or another. A method to follow. I call it being a chameleon. Can change a load of things and still score same. And change back next day. It’s Almost as if I need something odd to make my brain stay interested. I don’t know. Like I said. Crazy.

[smashdn]

Supposedly Hogan had irons that were not evenly nor progressively gapped. Story goes even some of them measured the same loft but he hit them the distance he needed them to go.

 

I went to the golf store once upon a time because I needed a 230 yard club. I really didn't care what it was so long as it went 230 yards. Could have been a 2i, driving iron, 5 wood or hybrid. Ended up with a 22* hybrid. Filling the gaps is more important than distance IMO. This is a conversation for the jacked lofts thread but strengthening iron lofts just messes up gaps and puts useless clubs at the top end of the set where most people struggle to get the granularity you need from club to club and puts in wedges on the bottom end where it is much easier to get the separation you need.

[ThinkingPlus]

You are scaring me.

[clevited]

OMG, so wish I thought of that term. I have been basically using that term for a few threads now, would have been much simpler and straight forward to people reading my posts if I just called it "Poser Demand", its a real thing and imo, a huge deal regarding this roll back idea.

[bladehunter]

Lol. Perfectly delivered. I don’t know why but that gave me a legitimate chuckle.

[clevited]

You almost described me. I don't pop them up, I just have 3 possibilities regarding my drives and it is what gets me into trouble. I either hit a baby push draw right where I want it, or a block slice or a snap push hook. I have to get in a groove before I know where the ball is going and I rarely get to go to the range for long enough before playing. If I were a shorter hitter, I wouldn't have much issue, it is when I think I have my driver corralled that it rears its ugly head and I put one OB. I have put a lot of time in over the winter though, I think I will finally have a more reliable miss. I also have been working on driver bunts, those help a lot when you aren't too confident.

But yeah, mid handicapper with stupid power. The stupid power is what keeps me working hard at my game because I feel I have a high ceiling if I can just get rid of some bad swing habits. (Early Extension is a BEEEOTCH).

[Ashley Schaeffer]

Over time, the longer players of equal skill would win proximity battles from a given yardage if their dispersion distribution followed the norm throughout the bag. Meaning, we aren't talking about an (likely non-existent) outlier who stuffs 4 irons all the time, but hits his 8 iron like garbage.

"Of equal skill" is also important because we can't be comparing ZJ's 5 iron with the 8 iron of "that dude at the club who can really bomb it", because we're not talking equal skill at that point. Accordingly, in your hypo, I'd take DJ, BK, and Tiger, over time. I mean, if all the analytics are wrong regarding shorter clubs being easier to hit close to the hole, I'm all ears.

[Roadking2003]

1.2 billion golf balls are made each year. They all end up in lakes, oceans and landfills.So you agree that rolling back the driver would reduce distance. Rolling back to 190cc persimmon would have a huge impact. Probably in the range of 10 - 15 percent.

Rolling back the driver would be quick, easy, cheap, and achieve the rollback goal faster than rollling back the ball.

 

[Roadking2003]

All of the analytics I have seen say everyone hits it closer to the pin as they get closer to the green. I haven't seen anything about the clubs.

 

If I"m 150 out it requires the same skill if I use a nine-iron or a seven-iron.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

Haha! I know you are a fantastic player, so I also know it scares you because you've had similar thoughts on some level!

[Ashley Schaeffer]

Interesting. I feel pretty confident that I would hit it closer, over time, from a given distance if I could hit a shorter-shafted, higher-lofted club from that distance. I think it'd be an advantage to hit a 5 iron instead of a 5 wood on a super long par 3, but maybe I'm alone, and incorrect, on that assumption.

[farmer]

It would not be quick, easy or cheap to roll back drivers. There is no quick, easy cheap solution to a perceived distance problem.

[ThinkingPlus]

Not so much. I have really been fighting with my 5i and thinking about going to a 5h, but finally decided to keep working on my swing instead. Hate giving up the low punch 5i. Versatility is more important. I'm not going to knock down flagsticks from 170 anyway no matter what I use.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

Uh oh, the next bad 5 iron you hit might just change your mind.

Kidding. Fair enough, TP. I always appreciate your insights.

[bladehunter]

Exactly my suspicion. That all good players or at least people who try to think through things , have considered it to some degree.

[ThinkingPlus]

Maybe when I get to be a really old lady I will succumb and go to a 5h.

[storm319]

There will be a level of waste impact either way however the club waste increase will likely outweigh any for balls (unlikely to be mass disposal of brand new boxes of existing balls, clubs on the other hand have a much longer useful lifecycle). Any ball rollback would need a long implementation period along with cooperation from the OEMs to stop producing balls under the previous limits. Example emphasizing both headsize having little impact and crazy fairway conditions on tour...Rory 2019, M6 3wood ~160cc, 272yd carry 334 total...smaller club heads will not change the approach to the pro game

BTW, I am firmly against any rollback, however if I had to choose the ball or driver, the ball would have the lesser amount of disruption, have less potential loopholes, and be easier to adopt across the industry.

[vtpachyderm]

I'm not for rollback, or doing anything about distance. Like I've said earlier, it's just stupidly impressive that they can hit 350 yard drives on a rope.

So, how about reducing the number of clubs they're allowed to carry (putter included?). Since they're so dialed in with each club, if you increase the gapping potential between clubs, then they may have to play with a little bit more imagination. I mean, right now they go to the practice rounds with more than 14 clubs, and pick and choose for the course. If you were to decrease it to say 7 clubs (6 clubs + putter), then the course designers could set up some challenges on each day? We're told all the time to go play rounds with fewer clubs to become a better player etc etc. and 14 was just an arbitrary number wasn't it?

[smashdn]

The supposition is exactly as I presented it. Those are the players with their current skills. Who ya got?

[golfer07840]

I don't think the club companies would like if DJ or Justin Thomas decided to have a "mix" bag. But I could be wrong. I heard Rocco Mediate on a podcast last week and he said everyone is obsessed with the number on the bottom of the club. If you're 150 out, hit whatever you hit 150. Who cares if it says 8i or 6i? Vijay Singh plays with a pretty mixed bag. Callaway driver, Taylor Made fairway woods, Wilson Staff Wedges and Mizuno irons. Then again, he isn't a young player with an equipment contract. So that brings us back to point #1...

[Pingfitz]

apologies if this has been posted before

Dean Snell, Snell Golf nailed the issue, broke it down into 4 areas

YouTube video

too detailed and through to put in here, sorry

[golfer07840]

LMAO 62 yards of roll for Rory.

[storm319]

and with a 15 degree 3 wood no less