USGA DISTANCE INSIGHT

[Titleist99]

LOL!.....One of the most rediclous post that I've ever read. I can't believe that you think the wind blew for four days on all the courses the PGATOUR has played on the West Coast and Florida swing. I'm finding it hard to take you serious. LOL!

~just my opinion.

But you are entitled yours...have a great day!

[grm24]

If one can not spell ridiculous correctly perhaps one should avoid posting about other peoples opinions. Hard to take you serious.

[QuigleyDU]

the top players not playing this week is less about the course and more about the new schedule. The schedule is crap. Plus on top of that there are the olympics this year condensing it further.

They are all deciding where it is best to play and where to take weeks off.

[clevited]

Really? You are going to pull out the spelling card thing on here. Oh please.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

You missed a comma. You missed an apostrophe. Your last “sentence” is a fragment, and probably required the adverb “seriously” to close. We can do this all day, but I don’t think we should.

[bladehunter]

Who said all 4 days ? Who said every event? I said Riviera and pebble. You’re the one who’s is speaking in absolutes and out in la la land.

[gvogel]

If your idea of a good golf course is tight fairways where players have to hit irons off the tee, a course tricked up with lots of water everywhere, and a place where the average golfer is going to lose a lot of balls, then PGA National is your kind of place.

Not mine.

[bladehunter]

Exactly. This course actually proves the point that tricking up the course will not work. Why ? The rollback aim is not tied to scores. It’s about distance . Period. More accurately distance to scale. Taking and forcing guys to not hit driver , is NOT the answer. It’s actually the problem. It’s what I gripe about on the local muni courses. You take the long guys and handcuff then. And you get a Luke Donald or Zach Johnson winner ( yes Zach was in the hunt until his brain spasm triple or quad on Thursday ). The short knockers love this. But it’s absolutely the most boring setup that can be had. Which is why most of the top players skipped it. And why the ones in the field missed the cut.

[deadsolid...shank]

C’mon Blade, even when we don’t agree on something I almost always can respect your opinion.

But the reason players are skipping is schedule based, not because it’s boring..... even if they do think it’s boring. They should have an adherent advantage if they don’t have to hit driver, so it would make sense to play. At least that’s my opinion.

[bigred90gt]

Or the longer guys in the field are missing the cut because there’s an actual penalty for being wayward.

 

next week is the API, followed by the players. I doubt

very seriously they’re skipping this week because they find it boring. They’re skipping because it is very rare for them to play 3 weeks in a row because they don’t HAVE to. They want to be fresh for marquee events, not at the end of a 3 week marathon.

[Titan2113]

Was that not also the same person that said Brendan Todd is a top 10 player in the world and that the difference between 100 OWGR isn’t much from number 1?

[bladehunter]

No. This is flawed thinking. If it’s a forced layup the advantage goes to the short guy. Or at least equals out to no advantage. That’s why taking driver out of the big guys hands with tricks is not a solution.

[bladehunter]

I believe so. ?‍♂️

[deadsolid...shank]

I guess we’ll have to do the old “agree to disagree” on this one Blade. I see no way the advantage ever goes to the short hitter. Take two players both needing to hit the ball to a certain point, the guy hitting the iron to get there is going to more successful than the guy who has to hit driver. Then the longer hitter is going to have a shorter club for the approach shot. I just don’t see how that ever favors the short hitter.

[bladehunter]

No I don’t think they’ve been that wayward off the tee.

 

but what it is identifying is the real cream Iron players. If distance were rolled back we could get this on any course and not have to watch layups off the tee. You could see both.

[bladehunter]

That’s just it. On this course they all are hitting irons off the tee. There’s no measurable advantage in dispersion from 2 iron to 4 iron. It’s just loft. And nobody is hitting real 2-3 irons anymore. All hollow etc. it’s nearly to the point they should just allow a drop off #1. I watched 4 groups this morning and nobody missed the middle of the fairway. 270-290 yard irons off the tee.

[bigred90gt]

And I watched someone get 40-50 yards of roll in the fairway with an iron yesterday. That is ridiculous

[deadsolid...shank]

I haven’t watched any this week Blade, but I would guess if guys like Zach Johnson are getting 270-290 out of an iron, there is a bunch of rollout on the shots? There’s no way they’re carrying it that far. Which calls to mind conditioning again.

[clevited]

Back when I was first learning the sport almost all the courses in my area were tight, heavily wooded and therfore very penal if your shot went off line. Those were always considered the hardest courses that required you to be REALLY good to do well. The wide open, inland links type courses were the easiest by far yet that is the type of course that certain people on here require to in order to be "real" golf. Is it possible, that kind of course just doesn't, and never had the chance to hold up long term the way it was intended? Is it possible it is a flawed course design when it comes to testing golfers abilities. On links courses it is rare you have to punch out from the trees, it is rare to have to hit a tight window below branches, it is rare that you have to choose to layup in order to prevent over running into the woods or ponds. Is it possible, short, tight, bendy and hazard filled courses provide the best and most challenging test of golf?

After all, links courses only have wind to protect themselves, seems like an oversight by these great minds of old. Personally, i like having both types where I live. One type gives you the longest and shortest drives you will ever hit, free to miss fairways completely and still score well. The other puts a premium on accuracy, shot shaping, and distance control. Maybe the best course has a serious mix of both types of play? 9 holes of links, 9 holes of tight parkland golf.

[bladehunter]

That’s not even the point. And I’m sorry if I get worked up. But this is one of those life facts similar to the sky is blue. If a hole is designed with trouble at 300. As that one is. It’s a fair guess that the intended idea is for driver to be in trouble , but a great drive will fit. And a 3 wood lays up short. Now modernize the equipment and player and you get nobody hitting driver. So look at it from everybody hitting driver. With the average drive being 280. Who has the advantage ? The 290 in the air guy or the 265 in the air guy ? Of course you agree that the 290 in the air guy gets it. Right ? So now look at today. Everybody hitting an iron to layup. How does the designed advantage hold up ? Answer. It doesn’t. Not with a broad view. Some guys get it back with iron play ( Fleetwood ). But that’s another discussion.

 

and to be honest. If you aren’t watching it. How can you know you agree with old titleist 99 that “ this is why setup is the answer “? No harm meant. Just trying to provoke thought.

[ThinkingPlus]

Yep. Lived in FL during my early years of playing golf. Most of the courses are similar to what you see at PGA National. There was a course in Hobe Sound called Lost Lakes. We called it Lost Balls! Those courses represent what we called exponential penalty golf. Miss by a small amount and you pay a large amount. The fairways tend to be crowned for drainage so you can have drives land in the fairway at the wrong angle and bounce, bounce, bounce, splash. Score on those kinds of courses is driven by penalty strokes. Minimize penalties and you have a chance to shoot a good score. Otherwise it will be a long day. My home course right now is similar, but not that severe. Forced layups, forced carry's, stands of live oak, etc... . Very strategic.

[deadsolid...shank]

In all honesty I don’t need to watch. If you’re saying they’re hitting irons 270-290 then they’re getting a ton of roll. Because if the big hitters have skipped because it’s boring (I’ll use your theory against you here, just for the sake of a good argument ?) then it’s a bunch of short knockers hitting irons that far. And we know they aren’t carrying it anywhere near that far.

[bigred90gt]

And at 300 yards to the end, with modern course setup of firm and fast, even the 265 in the air guy isn’t hitting driver because he can’t. They’re getting 40+ yards of roll, that puts them over the 300 total.

[oikos1]

I think we're starting to see that not only do a particular group of roll it backers want distance rolled back, they also want it to still always favor the longer hitter (even though there is legitimate debate on what actually favors a longer hitter) and they have very specific specifications as to which golf courses would be acceptable.

How anyone can have a reasonable discussion about distance with this group is beyond me. The USGA doesn't even take people with such demands seriously. 15th has said so himself numerous times.

[clevited]

By "group" you mean 1 guy lol. I told him its a very tough position to defend.

[bladehunter]

well I guess we are done then. If you i don’t need to watch something to know what’s happening. There’s no discussion to be had.

[bladehunter]

The bunkers aren't keeping them from hitting driver. It’s the water etc at 340. They’d hit driver if bunkers were the worry.

[bladehunter]

@oikos1 If you just now saw my position , you haven’t been reading very closely. This isn’t new and I haven’t tried to hide it.

[oikos1]

Every time I come here I learn new things. About your position and others. While I don't think the roll it back camp actually has a sound, cohesive platform, there are others beyond you who agree with the positions I posted (which of course, I don't). I suppose your post is an acknowledgement to not take you seriously, but perhaps you could clarify how a reduced distance ball and reduced distance clubs would not only make this tournament better, but how it would also benefit the longer hitters while still identifying the best golfer in the group for the tournament.

Interesting that "wind" is one of the issues and three euros are in the top 5 on Sunday.

[deadsolid...shank]

C’mon Blade, you know I’m pretty reasonable. I wouldn’t throw something out there with no basis. I was upfront and said I haven’t watched, yes, but I don’t have to watch to know if the shorter hitters are hitting irons that far there are extenuating circumstances. And in the next post BigRed said he did watch and that is exactly what was happening

But you’re correct, I didn’t see it, so if that invalidates my opinion completely in your eyes I’ll just leave the discussion to those who are watching.