USGA DISTANCE INSIGHT

[Sean2]

I am guessing they would probably play the game as they see fit. However, I think the scenario you describe is a bit unlikely. :-)

[OrangeGravy]

It is unlikely, but I think the reaction to that unlikely rule would be the same reaction to any change in any rule or equipment limit the USGA might make. The only people that are ever going to complain or even care about anything the USGA does are the golfers at clubs and other amateur players that play a lot on up the latter. Everyone below that plays by their own rules or their own interpretation of the rules and they sure aren't worried about whether or not their equipment is conforming. The only people I could see ever quitting the game in any real numbers because of a potential loss of distance, would be people who are already close to having that problem now. Older players or players that have other physical limitations that make it hard to play in general. Even then, if an older player is still getting out there bunting the all down the fairway a couple times a week, they probably are resigned to the fact that they have to play that way and they still love playing.

[gvogel]

15th, we agree on many things, but I would not be in favor of a new ball that only handicapped higher swing speed players. To be fair, a new "condition of competition" ball should have the same percentage distance reduction across all swing speeds. Otherwise, it affects higher swing speed players at the expense of lesser swing speed players.

Having said that, my reading of the Distance Insights report concludes that the USGA will be advocating for a reduced distance ball to be used in some instances (shorter golf courses) for some competitions. I believe that most posters on this thread would not be affected one iota. By the way, I also hope the USGA addresses driver size and COR for that same condition of competition.

Now, if it does come to pass that the ball and equipment is rolled back across the board, I am prepared to play a shorter golf course, and I hope that Thinking Plus and her crowd get new forward tees.

[bigred90gt]

I can assure you it would not add any enjoyment to my game. I see the course, the lines as I see them, the distances to various hazards/obstacles/openings, pick my shot, and attempt to play that shot. I do not care one single bit what the architect wanted me to do when he designed the course. I care only how I plot and plan my way around the course. If the architect wanted me to play up the left side, but the adjacent fairway on the right is a better angle to the green, that's where I'm playing it. So no, it would not add enjoyment because for some of us, the design intent is inconsequential to our game.

[bladehunter]

the impact will be negligent for those griping the most. Or those who the ones who are griping are painting as the victims. It will affect the intended a lot. Judging criteria for effect being score and clubs used for approach vs before the rollback. The 20 handicap player isn’t going to see a score spike. Why ? They are very likely to have to post the same max double bogeys as before. They will make roughly the same amount of natural pars. Scoring average will be stagnant.

[bladehunter]

But. That example only really is accurate if the player uses a trampoline to execute the alley-ooop. Nobody here is against big guys hitting it far. Just do it without the trampoline. Right ?

[gvogel]

Only one player from the World Golf Ranking top 15 is playing this week. Why would most of the top ranked players pass up the Honda? Because the course forces them to lay up off the tee way too much, and the Bear Trap is also a crap shoot from luck point of view. A gust of wind comes up and a good shot gets rinsed.

On the other hand, just about anyone who qualifies will tee it up at Augusta. I think that the top players really enjoy competing on that golf course, apart from playing in a major. My opinion, I guess, but they say that they enjoy Augusta.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

So, they would notice a 10% reduction? So, earlier, when you said they wouldn’t notice, that was incorrect, right?

[Ashley Schaeffer]

Haha! Anyone can bomb it with these newfangled [insert]. I’d like to see then have to hit [insert] like [insert] had to.

[mahonie]

Unlikely and if they did it would then only be for a couple of holes and then it would be long forgotten.

[gvogel]

The funny man strikes again.

[bladehunter]

Yea. I’ve not tried to hide that with any veils.

 

the opposite of that is “ i love that the game is now turned into long drive with a side of wedge contest .... now if we can get some hats in the clubhouse and boom boxes on each green , my master plan will be complete “. lol ( a joke of course ) Those ideals HAVE been masked as everything from “ what about the children “. To “ ageism. What about the seniors “.

in fact it’s just that people enjoy that the game is dumbed down and do not want it changed back. Right ? Let’s be out front.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

Haha! Love it!

[bladehunter]

Lol. Really silly all around isn’t it. Really thinking about just becoming a hermit and building some tunnels under my property. I figure if I dig for 30 years all my worries will be gone by then. Would make about as much sense and progress as most current endeavors.

[oikos1]

Wow, I didn't think I would ever hear a roll it backer bash a Nicklaus re-design course that forces lay-ups and has a "rub of the green" effect to it. They did draw three of last year's four Major champions, so they've got that going for them. And let's be real, attempting to compare the experience at Augusta to any other golf tournament is fruitless. Those guys fawn over playing the par three tournament on Wednesday. If the Masters was a nine hole one day tournament on a Monday every pro invited would show up.

[oikos1]

Blade, I would agree with your last sentiment with a slight tweak: "in fact it’s just that people enjoy that the game is constantly in flux and do not want it changed back. Right ? Let’s be out front.

Golf is still very difficult for the majority of players, no matter what type of equipment used. People also tend to favor shiny new things that might make their life more enjoyable, even if just for a moment. I know, I know. It's just the way humans tend to be wired.

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

So, a fully compressed low compression ball can’t really compress that much more than a normal ball? Otherwise, it seems like the shell could split?

Based on nebulously scientific data I collected recently on a bet and whim, my son and his freakishly long hitting friend hit some balls with different compression values with foot powder on the face. The purpose was not specifically to prove how much the ball distorts with compression, but just to show strike location. Ball imprint size was simply an extra outcome. The reason for us using different balls was they were throwaway play balls we used at the range.

The results were not surprising. Lower compression balls did leave a slightly larger imprint.

The Flightscope XI plus did not seem to show significant difference in ball speed nor the calculated carry distances. Spin seemed different but to overall carry by as large an amount as we think?

Lower compression balls possibly wear out faster? Maybe give a tiny bit more “bounce” and spin?

It’d certainly be interesting to see a more scientific study?

[bladehunter]

Yea. I guess that’s agreeable too. Just seems like this argument is way simpler than its being portrayed.

 

and shiny new things wouldn’t go away. Lol. Just would be different is all.

[QuigleyDU]

Love it when a plan comes together.

[clevited]

Watch some recent TXG videos on youtube. They test a wilson duo soft golf ball vs I think a prov1. You can also check the ball test data done by this website's competitor, starts with an M.

The difference is noticeable but not enough to make any real impact imo. Softer golf balls crack much sooner in my simulator bay than harder ones.

[Titleist99]

Once again another great course on the PGATOUR PGA National Champion Course approximately 7000 yards. A well designed course and great setup will make this distance debate look silly. Half the field can drive the ball 300+ yards yet the course is a beast.......LOL! Again, PGA National 7000 yards and certainly not obsolete. The rough on this course was actually lowered this year....

~just my opinion.

[Sean2]

I was thinking the same thing.

[gvogel]

yes, it is such a well designed course with a great setup that only one player in the top 15 WGR is playing it. This course is everything that a good course shouldn't be.

[Titleist99]

Top players play this course all the time but due to the scheduele change the field is affected. Please tell my why this course is everything a good course shouln't be.....I'll wait.

[Titleist99]

Tommy Fleetwood, Justin Rose and Brooks Keopka.....All in the top 15 OWGR. 

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

Agree, nothing close to the 15% people seem to think USGA seems to want.

The cracking sooner makes sense to me.

[bladehunter]

Nope. It’s still called ...... wind.

[Titleist99]

When presented with facts, the rollback crowd blame the wind for high scores Not set up and certainly not course design.....this just in: Golf is played outdoors. LOL!

~just my opinion.

[bladehunter]

Lol. Just saying. The two courses you decide to point to setup at , both had wind to defend them. Riviera and here at Honda. Come to think of it. Pebble too.

sure it’s played outdoors. but you can’t count on wind as part of the setup ... not every week

 

and as for setup I’d say this course is a prime example of bifurcation. There’s nothing about that course that a 5-25 handicapper would ever enjoy . 200 plus yard carries over water And greens with false edges etc This isnt hard because of over seeded rough ( lol) or slow fairways ( they are fast ) as you cry for

 

im in the south today Wind and temperature is why the scores are so low today It’s blowing a constant 15 mph and it’s 47 here ... might be warmer there but I bet blowing more And it’s a north to south wind , air feels like its blowing off an ice cube

 

[Sean2]

I think it's a great course and a great tournament. A number of players have said they embrace the challenge it presents. Should be a great Sunday finish.