Number of tournaments plan per year for a junior golfer

[tiger1873]

when it comes to number 1 ranked player both men and women I don’t believe anyone has ever won US kids world when they were younger. That I know . If you look at players who were ranked number one like brooks Koepka or Dustin Johnson there success came a lot later when they were teenagers.

 

the only winner of us kids World was Lexi Thompson and I don’t believe she ever made it to number 1. With all the winners over the years I would expect to see more if it mattered. Not saying others who played didn’t see success I am talking about kids who did well early on did not continue on that trend.

the only predictors see of future number 1 player is one who breaks out in there teenage years and keeps riding until there number 1.

[BloctonGolf11]

Tiger I am confused, last week you were pontificating on the fact that to be an "elite player" one had to be gifted with a "natural swing" that they had from the moment they picked up a club. Now you are saying that these number one players blossomed later and only started seeing success as teenagers? What happened to the importance of the so called natural swing?

[tiger1873]

Having good swing does not mean you will win just stepping on the course and playing. That takes a lot of hard work and the ability to learn how to play golf at high level, By all accounts Brooks Koepka had very good swing early on but didn’t win a lot tournaments when he was very young.

i’ve seen some horrible swings win 6 and 7 year events because you don’t need power or ability to fly the ball. A kid at that age could roll it from the tee to flag and still win.

 

[BloctonGolf11]

You just basically articulated what we were trying to tell you on that thread last week. What you just said basically made sense, what you were saying on the natural swing stuff did not. Either way off this topic but had to point out.

[iteachgolf]

Dustin Johnson was an upper classman in High School when the first US Kids Worlds was held. How about you check how many top golfers have won the IMG Junior worlds, an event that dates back to 1968 and not 2000. The overwhelming majority of professional golfers over 25 didn’t grow up with US Kids Worlds being a thing that mattered or was even on their radar or even existed.

[tiger1873]

No what I said is you don’t have a swing to begin with you never really make it on tour. You can be taught a swing with hard work but it never be the same as a natural swing.

 

And when I am talking about swing her I am talking about the very basic nature of the way they swing the club. go watch a group of kids taking lessons and I guarantee you will see the ones who you know have ability and others who need every aspect changed. In some cases a kid makes contact very well on the first lesson and look like they been swing for years that is very very rare but does happen too. Our first instructor gave Jordan Speith his very first lesson and described to me how he instantly hit the ball very well.

[leezer99]

If you think the first time Jordan got a lesson was the first time he'd swung a club I have a beautiful bridge to sell you. His dad even talks about it in the Earn Your Edge podcast saying he would take Jordan and Steven to the range with him as kids.

[yellowlover519]

What the Junior forum would be without Tiger. Tiger, keep doing you...

[tiger1873]

Look especially in junior golf parents want believe you can teach good swing to anyone. But others believe in a natural swing and usually those teachers are teaching a busy schedule to the top players in the game.

everyone thinks their golf instructors are great but the vast majority are not very good and will cause lots of issues.

I don’t have much more to say on it because most people on here have no clue.

[leezer99]

I actually like some of what Tiger says. I don't have to agree to appreciate whatever crazy opinion someone has.

[yellowlover519]

Tiger, I would agree with you if you meant some people are born with better natural abilities (hand eye coordination and understanding how to generate power without being taught). I would also agree with you if you said natural because it’s easier for them to implement instruction.

[heavy_hitter]

What does that matter? Becoming number 1 in the World is such a minute chance. The odds of doing what you are saying is less than 1%. Probably have a better chance at playing the lottery than becoming the number 1 player in the world. I really am not following what your premise is.

[tiger1873]

That is exactly what I am saying.

[darter79]

Please tell me you are just trolling us all for a good laugh and really don't think all of this crazy talk

[tiger1873]

It doesn’t matter but the few kids and their parents who I met who placed high in US Kids worlds all think that placing number 1 in US kids worlds means their the number 1 player in their age group and their destined to be great and everyone else is not that great.

so many reasons this Is so wrong. I sort of hate the whole notion 1 tournament is all that matters because it doesn’t. With these young kids its has more to do with parents forcing practice more then it has to do with talent. The kids in the middle of the pack at these kiddy tournaments are usually where the true talent is because those kids probably practice on their own.

 

[leezer99]

I quite literally don't think anyone on here has ever said something like that. Tons of kids that are amazing golfers don't even make the trek to US Kids Worlds to compete. My son has been eligible for multiple years and we've never even considered going.

[heavy_hitter]

We went twice because it was a fun easy trip. Nothing more or nothing less. I don't think if a person's kid makes it to the little league World Series that they think their kid will be in the MLB. They just have a really good team and do it because it is Cooperstown.

[tiger1873]

no not about anyone here, I don’t think anyone on here thinks this but more about the people I run into out there. We seen a few us world kids that are top 10 kids in the us kids worlds including one or two that actually win it and they all seem to think this way.

the parents push the kids way to much and the kids goof off when giving the chance.

[leezer99]

"Junior success is a poor indicator of long-term senior success. Their success at the age of 10 had a zero correlation with their success as a senior. Same was true with their success at 11-14, 15-18. We have a zero correlation."

Professor Dr. Arne Güllich

[yellowlover519]

To say zero is ridiculous. Everyone can acknowledge success and what they learn from a young age is only helpful as they get older. There aren’t enough hours to pick up a club at 14 and compete with a kid that has had success since they were 7. At 18, the 7-year old is better 80+% of the time.

[heavy_hitter]

I disagree.

 

For every kid that played at 7 and were successful that went on to make it, I can show you 10 that didn't. It has ZERO correlation. At my daughter's school there is an international student that was being recruited heavily in the states. She shot in the 60's to low 70's. She has struggled to break 80 the past two years. You very rarely hear about these kids. Kids similar to this situation are far and beyond more than the ones that made it. There is ZERO correlation.

[leezer99]

We're taking about future success, not current success. Of course the 10 year old that wins Worlds is successful but that's not indicative of anything in the future.

[Sean2]

As others have alluded to, it is not quantity, but quality. I have a friend on the LPGA Tour. She played about 8 meaningful tournaments a year do to finances...a few were invitationals. She was heavily recruited by D1 schools, but went straight to the Tour. This is her fourth year. It's not quantity, it's quality.

[wildcatden]

Parentnightvideo Slide 15. Build the athlete first.

 

[JuniorGolfParent]

I think I understand both sides of this debate. However, just to provide one anecdote that demonstrates that winning young has high correlation to future success:

2014 US Kids World Championship, Boys 12 division top 10 finishers included the #1, #6 and #12 players in the class of 2020 on JGS (Vilips, Thobjornsen, Pagdin)

Oh and it had one other kid who finished 11th who has done ok - Akshay Bhatia

[yellowlover519]

We do this every year, so I'll bite again. To say zero correlation is ridiculous. Of course there are players whose success had correlation with junior success. Just look at Els, Tiger, Mickelson, Day, Rory, Sergio... Even look at Wolff and current PGA player rookies and see how many played and had success at young ages. Now if someone were to say junior success is not indicative of future success, I would agree with that statement.

[heavy_hitter]

That is exactly what Leezer said.

 

Not disagreeing with the Wolff statement. I can show you 10 that had success as a junior that didn't make for every Wolff you throw out there.

[leezer99]

Preach brother.

[yellowlover519]

of course - we’re talking PGA. I bet you if we took 11-12 USKG or IMG world participants w/ current freshman to senior classes at the top 50 D1 golf schools, the split would be in my favor, or at least close enough to see a correlation.

Leezer put up a quote zero correlation.

[Noles]

Putting a calendar together of my son's tournaments this spring/summer. The toughest part is choosing which tournaments to play in. He will be 16 and between state/local association events, USGA qualifiers, AJGA and other potential junior tournaments, we just can't play them all.