TM ventus blue vs. Velocore ventus blue?

[Lemonde]

3 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

The OEM's that sell aftermarket shafts and "Made for", are told to stay mum.  They don't want people thinking "made for" is different, as they are less likely to buy.  I still haven't figured out the formula that OEMs use to include $350 aftermarket shafts in their stock retail woods that sell for at most $500.  I wonder how long that can last.  I see a lot of Red ink, but that's another subject.

 

I haven't hit a Ventus shaft that doesn't have Velocore.  For most people that golf, "made for" shafts are fine.  Both my wood shafts are Ventus aftermarket with Velocore and cost $350ea.  Not even sure I could tell the difference.  All I know is the ones I have are why I am still hitting the ball longer than guys much younger than me.  The other day this 70yr old, in benign conditions, hitting uphill tee shot the ball finished over 300yds.  Thank you Fujikura for the shaft ... and Titleist for the ball.

It’s not $350 to the OEM and they are selling at cost, it’s more like $150 for a Velocore Ventus or alternatively $25 for a non Velocore.  

[storm319]

14 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

The OEM's that sell aftermarket shafts and "Made for", are told to stay mum.  They don't want people thinking "made for" is different, as they are less likely to buy.  I still haven't figured out the formula that OEMs use to include $350 aftermarket shafts in their stock retail woods that sell for at most $500.  I wonder how long that can last.  I see a lot of Red ink, but that's another subject.

 

I haven't hit a Ventus shaft that doesn't have Velocore.  For most people that golf, "made for" shafts are fine.  Both my wood shafts are Ventus aftermarket with Velocore and cost $350ea.  Not even sure I could tell the difference.  All I know is the ones I have are why I am still hitting the ball longer than guys much younger than me.  The other day this 70yr old, in benign conditions, hitting uphill tee shot the ball finished over 300yds.  Thank you Fujikura for the shaft ... and Titleist for the ball.

No red there, the club OEMs aren’t paying much if any more for the no up charge options than they are for a made for offering. It all comes down to volume.

 

First, the manufacturing cost per part is a lot lower than people think for all of the big shaft OEMs (I’m talking full scale production, not limited runs like the PX HC shafts that they originally produced in SD). Price range per part is anywhere from $5 to maybe $20 for the flagship models with “exotic” materials. OEM program models tend to cost under $10 per part to make and sell in the range of $20-40 to the club OEMs in high quantities.
 

The price markup for the high dollar aftermarket offerings is so drastic vs the actual manufacturing cost for a few reasons: 1) the volume sold at retail pales in comparison to the OEM program shafts sold to the club OEMs. 2) an attempt to cover other costs of goods sold beyond the actual manufacturing cost. 3) shafts are priced at what the target demographic is willing to pay (even if it is a small volume). Good example of this would be when MRC released the Diamana+Plus line. It was intended to replace the previously exclusive made for shafts in the OEM program but they decided to offer them aftermarket to increase their legitimacy since this was at a time where made for shafts had a negative connotation. The reality is that they were not very far off physically from the prior made offerings nor were the club OEMs paying anymore per part but the $250 aftermarket retail price 
added a perception of added value and MRC probably sold a small amount aftermarket at a ridiculous markup.

 

[Pepperturbo]

Thank you, guys.  Is anyone actually with Fujikura or a buyer at an OEM?  Over the years, being Founder/CEO of more than one product and service based company, provides me insight, just not specifics.  You all have a good wkend.

Edited February 27, 2021 by Pepperturbo

[Trap Junior]

Still in lockdown here with no golf for the last 5 months.  Before Lockdown I bought a SIM with the non velocore Blue 6X shaft and found it lovely.  Been thinking if the non velocore is working well for me would the velocore version be even better?

What are the noticable differences?

Would this be similar profile to a Fubuki Tour 73 X?

[jasonTeI3]

Old topic but wanted to chime in with some info I just received from Tour Edge. So they were telling me that their “Ventus Red 4T Core” is actually made to play similar to the profile of the Ventus Blue. Seemed very odd to me and also seems very confusing for Fujikura to want to put stuff like this out in market. I get why they do the “made for” shafts, to make money. But why make a red that plays like a blue? Seems to me they would tell Tour Edge..hey guys we will make a shaft for you of course but we can’t completely muddy the waters on our flagship line. If you want something to play similar to a real Ventus Blue then we will make a watered down version of that shaft and it will be blue. Or have blue graphics or something. Not freaking red.

[storm319]

4 hours ago, jasonTeI3 said:

Old topic but wanted to chime in with some info I just received from Tour Edge. So they were telling me that their “Ventus Red 4T Core” is actually made to play similar to the profile of the Ventus Blue. Seemed very odd to me and also seems very confusing for Fujikura to want to put stuff like this out in market. I get why they do the “made for” shafts, to make money. But why make a red that plays like a blue? Seems to me they would tell Tour Edge..hey guys we will make a shaft for you of course but we can’t completely muddy the waters on our flagship line. If you want something to play similar to a real Ventus Blue then we will make a watered down version of that shaft and it will be blue. Or have blue graphics or something. Not freaking red.

Specs of this Red 4T that is stock in the new C721 driver seems to be the same as the Gray 4T that was stock in the EXS 220. My guess is that it is the same shaft and simply a cosmetic change for this new driver (just like Ping with the ALTA). Per Fujikura (see first page of this thread), the 4T was essentially the same as the Blue Velocore with exception of the material in one of the bias layers (40T instead of 70T). 

[IUPGolf]

The Blue velocore 6x is a monster in the SIM2.  Just sayin 

[Trap Junior]

Just put the Blue 6X in a PING G410 LST at 45.75''.  Had to backweight it with 12g just to get it to D6.

Haven't hit it yet

 

[Trap Junior]

Played with the Velocore Ventus Blue 6X today in a  Ping LST.

 

Found it quite low launching and low flight especially compared to the non velocore version.  First game in 6 months so hard to know where I am at with my game but had to loft if from the small - to the biggest +

 

Could be my swing but could be the shaft.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Trap Junior

[Miken1952]

For all you “experts” out there, I would strongly suggest you refer back to production 101.  The Japanese and Chinese manufacturers are hands down the best production efficiency experts in the world.

Now that said, let’s apply some logic here.  Do we really believe that Fujikura is going to manufacture, by the hundreds of thousands, several different shafts…NO.  It simply doesn’t make sense.  
They make a few, very few variations.  The difference, the paint job, and label.

And, the difference in performance can only be “felt” by the most talented, top tier players.

If you’re one of these players, OK, but for us mortals who play the Sunday afternoon round, the standard version quality is far beyond our ability to use to maximum ability anyway.

 Don’t believe me?  That’s OK too.  

 Thanks to marketing, golf club manufacturers have us believing the newest, “best”, most expensive is going to make us Tiger, Dustin or Jack.

You DON’T need Velocore with its $350 price tag.  Any moderately priced shaft properly fitted to you will work just fine.

   Equipment doesn’t cure a bad swing (that’s 95+% of us out there).Spend the extra money where it will do the most good….LESSONS AND PRACTICE.

[third-times-a-charm]

1 hour ago, Miken1952 said:

For all you “experts” out there, I would strongly suggest you refer back to production 101.  The Japanese and Chinese manufacturers are hands down the best production efficiency experts in the world.

Now that said, let’s apply some logic here.  Do we really believe that Fujikura is going to manufacture, by the hundreds of thousands, several different shafts…NO.  It simply doesn’t make sense.  
They make a few, very few variations.  The difference, the paint job, and label.

And, the difference in performance can only be “felt” by the most talented, top tier players.

If you’re one of these players, OK, but for us mortals who play the Sunday afternoon round, the standard version quality is far beyond our ability to use to maximum ability anyway.

 Don’t believe me?  That’s OK too.  

 Thanks to marketing, golf club manufacturers have us believing the newest, “best”, most expensive is going to make us Tiger, Dustin or Jack.

You DON’T need Velocore with its $350 price tag.  Any moderately priced shaft properly fitted to you will work just fine.

   Equipment doesn’t cure a bad swing (that’s 95+% of us out there).Spend the extra money where it will do the most good….LESSONS AND PRACTICE.

 

lol

 

If you're implying that Fujikura is selling VELOCORE shafts as non-VELOCORE just because they have really efficient production lines you're lying to yourself. 

 

Thats is 100% not happening, and the shafts are material/physically different.

 

Fujikura already manufactures several different shafts, and they DO make shafts specially for some vendors - like Club Champion - who now sells their older XLR8 Pro shafts as 'new' and 'made for CC' fittings. So yes, they do make separate products quite often.

[third-times-a-charm]

For anyone wondering, Fuji recently put up all the specs for the OEM made-for shafts and the Ventus is on there: https://fujikuragolf.com/oem-shafts/

 

That should put the argument to sleep that the made-for is anything like the VELOCORE model. Its not even close.

[AndrewPlunkettPGA]

Love all the velocore shafts!! Can get a little spendy, but the feel and consistency is great if you can get hands on one!

[storm319]

On 8/11/2021 at 12:04 PM, third-times-a-charm said:

For anyone wondering, Fuji recently put up all the specs for the OEM made-for shafts and the Ventus is on there: https://fujikuragolf.com/oem-shafts/

 

That should put the argument to sleep that the made-for is anything like the VELOCORE model. Its not even close.

Except the specs listed for the OEM models are not helpful for stiffness profile comparison.
 

If you compare the Blues, torque is the largest variation which makes sense considering that the Velocore is really just very high modulus fiber in the bias layup which influences torque, but the OEM is still within the range that most would consider low (also keep in mind that the bias layup has little to no impact on the stiffness profile of the shaft).

[Bkeith1212]

track man on the two shafts 

[Thayneil]

On 2/27/2021 at 9:56 AM, Lemonde said:

It’s not $350 to the OEM and they are selling at cost, it’s more like $150 for a Velocore Ventus or alternatively $25 for a non Velocore.  

much cheaper than  150$   more like 100$

 

confidential info not disclosed

Edited January 17, 2022 by Thayneil