Heavy lifting and Golf - Pros, Cons, everything in between.

[Rosco1216]

Of course they aren’t strictly doing squat or deadlifts. Never have I ever implied that. It seems like I’m responding to your posts only for you to seemingly bring up something else that’s a different point all together. So I’ll digress.

[MK7Golf21]

i hope you realize the OP is hurt from these lifts, must be giving them a bad name, lol.

It’s not all about form, exercises like squat and deadlift allow you to load a ton of weight at which point they become more risky.

[PepsiDuck]

@Rosco1216, how familiar are you with constructive rest? My wife is a yoga therapist and is a big proponent of this for basically anyone with any type of back pain, especially yours where you have compression in the lower back due to heavy training. The basic idea is to elevate your legs to release muscular tension through the back; this may also alleviate some of those "shrinking spaces" you have in your lower vertebrae.
Lie on the ground and prop your feet up on a chair so that your legs form 90* angles to the ground. At first, your lower back will be up off the ground due to lumbar curve, but after a few minutes, it will eventually release and your entire back will be in contact with the ground. Stay in that position for 15-20 minutes. I actually sleep in this position, with my legs propped up on pillows. It has done wonders in literally eliminating any chronic back discomfort and allows me to continue heavy training.

[cardoustie]

I was 108.3 at Taylormade last Fall

112.5 last week

weightlifting ... but nothing crazy in terms of weight or exercises .. like my early 20’s three decades ago. Ie currently only using 40lb and 45lb dumbbells for curls

bench, curls, fly’s, lat pull downs, rows, shoulder press, leg extensions .. standard machine stuff ... and with deep squats with just a heavy medicine ball

5 sets of 11

cardio on alternate days

[Rosco1216]

I am far from being hurt or injured from these lifts. I’m having aches and pains and while an imbalance is uncomfortable with the load I put on it, it’s not the cause. Aches and pains are common with any activity taken to extremes. Ive done it for years without much physio or regular maintenance. Simply lifting “heavy” isn’t an extreme.

[Rosco1216]

I haven’t done much of anything with that regard but I’m beginning to. Plus I work a 50 hour a week desk job. Truth be told I haven’t don’t much of any regular preventative maintenance over the years.
Any experience or thoughts on inversion tables? @PepsiDuck

[MK7Golf21]

Oh, you just got an mri and X-rays done for fun, my fault. I mean I get MRIs done all the time for fun, love getting in that claustrophobic tube, hearing weird noises .

[Rosco1216]

Yes, for fun. You seem very triggered. Do you do that for fun as well?

Like I said, I digress. Best wishes.

[cardoustie]

Get a table, love mine, use it daily ... all my discs degenerating and 3 lumbar surgeries under my belt

[MK7Golf21]

Have fun with that cortisone needle in your hip/back so you can get through your lifting meet coming up without pain, even though your not hurt.

[Myherobobhope]

Deadlifts are what they are... they work a large amount of muscles and it’s easy to overload yourself with numbers you can pull but shouldn’t... I didn’t deadlift or squat at all when playing well and working with a trainer. They aren’t going to add distance to my game alone.

 

they are a quick way to lift a decent amount of weight and a nice compliment to a golf focused exercise routine for me. I like them. Not for the numbers I can lift but for the parts of the body it works.

 

overall, I think competitive lifting is counter productive to improving at golf... it’s a bad use of time and diminishes your ability to practice... but I don’t think that makes the specific lifts bad.

[MtlJeff]

It seems like you're really passionate about telling people they shouldn't do these exercises. People get hurt doing crossfit, people get hurt playing football, people get hurt playing soccer, people get hurt in knife fights over international water, people get hurt running marathons, ultra marathons, spartan runs, people get hurt during company softball....people get hurt doing a lot of dumb things, almost all of which are legal and people engage in with free will

Just relax man, theres worse things out there !

[MK7Golf21]

Actually, I do them pretty regularly but within reason. I don’t do deadlift as much though, I use to weekly for years. I’ve learned and I use them when needed and my health and training has been much better as a result. I’m actually stronger now that I don’t do them weekly but various other exercises.

any thread that comes up Rosco tells people that the way to gain swing speed is through deadlift and squat and that simply isn’t true, it is a way if you are smart about it

[Rosco1216]

I do not just go around to all the threads and blindly tell people way to gain speed is through squat and deadlift. I’ve said multiple times simply getting stronger isnt THE way to get faster. If you actually believe that then you haven’t been reading and grasping the context.

[MtlJeff]

If people want to make their choices based on what 1 person on the internet says, they deserve whatever they get. Although I would imagine Rosco would say he doesnt push it on people, that's for him to say though

Some of the lifts seemed like fun to try for me, but I still asked my friend from work to show me how to do them properly (he is a big deadlifter) and also got advise from my brother who has done amateur powerlifting .

Hopefully everyone researches their own decisions and makes them based on multiple sources of info

[LeoLeo99]

Do you have your routine written down that you can send me? Between home and work, I have access to just about any exercise and equipment. My quads are so tight. Just bought a foam roller to work on that.

[PepsiDuck]

I have no experience with inversion tables, but I assume they try to accomplish the same thing. The great thing about constructive rest is that you can do it anytime and basically anywhere without any special equipment. If you're watching TV or even reading a book, you can just grab a chair, lie on the ground, prop your feet up, watch a 30 minute episode of something, and be done. It's pretty amazing after even the first time you do it. Now I just sleep in that position and wake up pretty refreshed and back-discomfort free, even after squat or deadlift day.

I'd strongly recommend it. My wife says that a vast majority of people don't need to stretch (lengthen); they need to release.

[Myherobobhope]

Doing this now.

[cardoustie]

Basically i “run” 4 miles .... 1 min speed walk ... 2 min run ... interval training ... 2 or 3 days a week. Down to 10:40 miles while I only jog two thirds of the time. I‘m 6’2” and 260ish. 30 years ago I could do 5 miles in 29 minutes fwiw ... weighing 215 of course. When my right foot gets better I should be doing 8 min miles within 3 months ... where there will be no walking intervals. My two min jog speed at the moment is 6.2 to 7.3mph.

3 times a week I do circuit training. 5 mins on a cardio machine - like an elliptical - then I simply hit ~ 8 machines/stations in a row doing a weight that allows me to JUST do 10-12 reps. I do NOT take breaks between machines

I go thru this set of 8 0r 9 stations 5 or 6 times .. depending on time of day

right now in Florida the rotation is: cardio, lat pull downs, leg extensions, bench press, bicep curls, Med ball squats, shoulder press, seated rows, pec deck fly’s, tricep pull downs

at home I mix in AB roller wheel, planks and lebert bar dips and some trx stuff

my point of interest is I am just working on general strength and not golf specific training/flexibility exercises

Anyways, fitness guru guys like Rosco could likely come up with a full routine for middle aged dudes, my workout knowledge goes back to Arnold’s encyclopedia

i do not do heavy weights like squats that compress my spine

 

[tyorke1]

Thats great Cards , good for you.

[llewol007]

I guess Op that reading your post just brings alert flags up in my mind since i use to do squats as well as cleans and to me your question really had nothing to do with golf itself. My real concern when I see any of my friends lift heavy is how they train. You must give your body substantial amounts of rest but injury happens often too much when you are stressing not only the area but when your technique is off, and suddenly the surrounding muscles are left to continue the lift, really bad injuries are a result. Slip discs are a one as well as pulled muscles in your lower back especially if you have a weak core. Like others have said, you don’t need to squat 400lbs to drive a ball. Ask the current long distance champion. Tall lanky and has more of a bubba watson physique. There are of course those who look like they can play tight end on a football team who drive the ball a long distance but don’t get caught up in building too much muscle. I love inversion tables even at a slight angle can bring some blood flow and release some compression in the lower lumbar region. Like Pepsi said there is a great benefit to laying on your back and raising your feet. Gets that natural a S curve back in your spine. I’ve slept with my legs up on many occasions. It does help. You’ve seen some pros face injury due to over training. Just decide what you are trying to get out of it. Are you training to compete in weight lifting or are you strengthening your golf swing. If the latter you can google different exercises to strengthen the core and the surrounding muscles.

[bilbry57]

I am 62 and I started lifting 5 days a week at 5Am when I was 18. I was 140 lbs when I started benched 155 at my strongest when I was 42 I benched 355 and my squat was 465 weighed 210 about 18% body fat. I train push pull exercises never did much mobility/ flexibility work I guess I would be the traditional Body building training since I wasn’t concerned thinking about sports performance.

I never dead lifted much but my son who has PHD in exercise physiology professor at Auburn university suggested I include light dead lifts ( hex bar). I now deadlifts squats, pull-ups, dips push ups, kettlebells, and some Dumbell work. I still train 6 days a week at 5 am buti also do mobility/ flexibility work plus foam roller and lacrosse ball.work. He got his PHD at Oklahoma and a guy he graduated with is a strength coach and he sent me a video with thoracic spine mobility exercises and also exercises for lower body, back and hips. My mobility has improved so much I also just joined Kelly Starett’s ready state use to be Mobility Wod which is a great site for mobility information.

Roscoe- I have followed your posts on fitness and I enjoy reading your thoughts and advice. You back up your claims with facts and videos and it’s obvious you have follow your own advice its not just words. Kept getting after it.

Bill B

 

 

[PepsiDuck]

After browsing through this thread, injury seems to be a common issue/concern. I have been training using the Wendler program over the last 3+ years, and I've had great (albeit slow) success without too much concern over injury. This program introduced me to the concept of deload weeks, which happen every fourth week and gives my body a chance to rest and recover. For years, I'd go hard and heavy week after week for 52 weeks a year. Also, I train alone in my garage, so I don't have a spotter to tempt me to go heavier than I need to. If I get even the slightest feeling of not being able to get the next rep, I rack the weight. If I don't hit all the rep targets for an exercise on any given four-week cycle, I'll repeat the weight for that exercise.

I strongly recommend the Wendler program to anyone who wants to train heavy with lower risk of injury. I'm 36, only a few pounds from the 1000 lb club, and generally feel pretty good day-to-day.

[MK7Golf21]

Looks like a pretty good program

[ferrispgm]

Lifting doesn't cause injury...improper lifting does. Form plays a huge part in it as does going too heavy too fast. You need time to condition your muscles when going heavy and ideally you will do a couple warm up sets first. Your strength will self-limit what you can do to prevent injury as long as you are smart about it. General rule is if you are shaking trying to lift something then you need to drop the weight down. Now there are some extreme examples...guys that are trying to set records have a big risk of injury given the huge amount of weight they are moving and the ligaments/tendons can only handle so much, albeit they can take quite a bit.

 

[bilbry57]

For my generation I think most people that trained regularly were training for physiques. When my daughters were playing high school and College I encouraged them to hit the gym and get stronger. They both played at very good Division 3 programs that had strength and conditioning coaches who were volunteers. The best advice we received was from Doug Finch the father of Jenny Finch and inventor of the Finch Windmill. He told me that Jenny went to University of Arizona her Freshman year and they put her on a program where she got stronger stronger, leaner and faster except where it matter most her fastball and drop ball. Apparently the strength coach put on this program but never check the velocity of her pitches. Doug told her fastball had dropped 4-5 MPH since she started at Arizona to when he saw her and radared her pitches. He immediately changed her workout program and her velocity came back. So I think if you lift heavy my advice is to to take a baseline before you start and check every 30 days to see if your numbers are increasing on trackman or whichever device you have. Also check your mobility as well again Kelly Starrett has numerous videos on you tube that are excellent.

 

 

[johnrobison]

That's what I meant by guys letting their ego get in the way - overloading the bar. With good form and correct weighting, deadlifts have a lot of benefit. Though, even then, sometimes people get hurt. I like to trail run - sometimes I'm injured as a result (usually knee, sometimes achilles). Is trail running bad? The wear and tear of the golf swing can cause injuries, too.

[puresurfr]

Good topic. I used to play basketball and football and spent quite a few hours in the weight room, fast forward 25 years and im mostly playing golf with not other exercises cause im plain lazy. Well a few years ago, my mediocre distance got even worse, I tried all the usual tricks, lighter shafts stronger lofts, etc.... None of it really helped and I had to decide whether I wanted to continue down this road or change. I started walking and then running and got to what they call "skinny fat". Its better than being fat but not that much better. I had a bit of muscles in my legs but skin fat is embarrassing for a ex athlete, I always thought I had a thin layer of fat over muscle but reality was I had a thick layer of fat over very little muscle. I had to suck it up and join a gym. Went back and did the basics, mainly bench press and squats. Well that gets boring in a hurry so I watched to see what others were doing. It seems deadlifting and overhead presses were the thing, its a crossfit thing ? I slowly began to do deadlifts and then I did back rows and pull-ups and squats and lunges. After awhile that got boring too and I decided to do some fun golf stuff since I was in better shape. I added Land mine twists and medicine ball slams and plyometric jumps and battle ropes and lateral jumps and farmers carry and grip exercises. In addition I tried the superspeed system and started working on my golf swing. This is a ton of work from where I started I mean I expected to be way faster !!!!!! And to my surprise, im way stronger and I have some of my vertical jump back and my swing is much much better. I found I can hit all my irons longer but my puny driver is about the same.....puny. I did not pick up any top end speed. I went searching and working out hard for 2+ years and have nothing to show for it. Haha except I have muscles and im a lot heavier

Perhaps its my elbow tendonitis that is holding me back, after about 10 weeks with Super Speed my elbows would be constantly inflamed so instead of doing the Superspeed system I do a very very modified version of superspeed. its just basically 1 club and I do 24-30 swings total once to twice a week. I don't swing 110% like I used to. Instead I swing as hard as I can while still in control. It might defeat the purpose but getting injured defeats the purpose too. The newest thing I have added is massive amounts of stretching as well as attempting to rehab my elbows. In the beginning I stayed away from tricep and bicep work and bench press but now im doing some very light weight strict form work as well as using the flex bar and hand exercises and lots of arm stretches. It seems to be working because the pain is much less and im actually back to steel shafts now. There is also no flare up after hitting off mats but I ice anyways after workouts and hitting sessions.

I enjoyed getting stronger and almost doubled my strength in deadlifts and squats and added about 10" of vertical after getting back in the gym. I would be competitive for my age group in powerlifting but I rather not push it. my max squat is 405 but my sets all end at 285-315, I rather not throw in the heavy sets of triples. Deadlift max is 425 but I usually work in the 275-315 range. Bench Max is 335 but I will only do dumbbell presses with 110, those don't aggravate my elbows as much as straight bar. By not pushing it hard, I can actually recover from my workouts, I found when I was pushing hard to get stronger that it would take forever to recover. Its optimal for powerlifting but not so ideal for golf. Im well in my 50s and I cant afford to get injured because at this age the body takes forever to recover if at all and my first love is golf not powerlifting. it sucks because im naturally good at lifting and naturally suck at golf.

 

I have a inversion board but I rarely use it, it seems all the weight lifting has strengthened my back and im rarely sore in the lower or upper back. Before lifting my lower spine would feel really compressed after walking 3 days back to back to back. I would get on my board and it helped big time, now I rarely ever feel the need to use it....My new medical divide is the Elbow electro thing from Kings Brand. It uses some kind of electrical pulse to increase circulation.

[dpb5031]

Thanks for sharing. Your story is inline with my beliefs; increasing strength is good and never hurts, but there's not a direct corellative relationship between strength and speed. I further believe that speed diminishes with age more than strength. Too many skinny little 19 year olds who can swing it 120 yet couldn't total in all 3 power lifts what you can do in just the deadlift. Some people are fast, some people are slow. You can only do your best to get the most out of your innate potential, and it certainly sounds like you're trying!

Secondarily, is the Kings Brand elbow therapy working for you?

[bilbry57]

I like this topic as well and would agree staying strong is definitely beneficial. I also would agree speed diminishes more than strength as you age. I will train 5-6 days a week until I’m buried because I truly enjoy the feeling you get after working out. I also have issues with mobility and that’s an area where I focus a good deal of attention. Right now I’m doing a 14 day challenge on the Ready State. It’s a squat challenge where you test to set a standard and then do mobility exercises daily and retest. 3 days in and the bottom of my squat in definitely improving. I also am interested in exploring yoga I live in the boonies so there is not a studio. I would appreciate any at home Yoga video recommendations if anyone has suggestions.