Speed

[Bizzle80]

Just adding a thought...

 

I had a conversation with a fat fairly heavy dad at a recent tournament. He was bragging talking about how his daughter was in some custom workout program to build her speed and strength etc...mind you they are 7. All I know is my girl sees working out every morning as part of our family's overall habits. She and I do core and body weight workouts together before breakfast every morning...and now she gets upset when I get lazy or workout without her. 

 

At these ages we are talking about let's keep some perspective...lets just teach these kids to be healthy, happy and that exercise is part of a life habit. I am not sure rushing to make sure my 7yo has cranked up her SS is going to make much of a difference in her future golf career...which lets face it is probably going to be someone who maybe plays some HS or collegiate golf and hopefully enjoys playing with dad on weekends. Anything beyond that is gravy...

 

Self motivated kids with good habits are going to succeed in the long run more than those kids who are pushed into all this extra work by their parents. Tiger is the exception not the rule.

 

 

[tiger1873]

On 10/21/2020 at 6:06 PM, Bizzle80 said:

Just adding a thought...

 

I had a conversation with a fat fairly heavy dad at a recent tournament. He was bragging talking about how his daughter was in some custom workout program to build her speed and strength etc...mind you they are 7. All I know is my girl sees working out every morning as part of our family's overall habits. She and I do core and body weight workouts together before breakfast every morning...and now she gets upset when I get lazy or workout without her. 

 

At these ages we are talking about let's keep some perspective...lets just teach these kids to be healthy, happy and that exercise is part of a life habit. I am not sure rushing to make sure my 7yo has cranked up her SS is going to make much of a difference in her future golf career...which lets face it is probably going to be someone who maybe plays some HS or collegiate golf and hopefully enjoys playing with dad on weekends. Anything beyond that is gravy...

 

Self motivated kids with good habits are going to succeed in the long run more than those kids who are pushed into all this extra work by their parents. Tiger is the exception not the rule.

 

 

 

 

Here is the thing if the Kid is 7 and you having to go to a program to build swing speed then there either kidding themselves or the kid must be slow. Anyone who is reputable will tell you not to do a program for a younger kid to just build swing speed.

 

Now on the other hand they may have personal trainers who work with golfers who take on younger kids for an overall fitness program. Nothing wrong with a 7 year old doing planned fitness routine (running, sit-ups pushups etc) In some cases the way things are it might be the only way they play video games all day. If there living heavy weights though something is very wrong. But honestly it just isn't needed in most cases and there wasting money.

 

Older kids though it's a big difference. Even then if there hitting a ton golf balls and playing golf good chance they are increasing swing speed without doing anything else.

Edited October 23, 2020 by tiger1873

[Bay Area Hack]

Question for the group. I have a boy who just turned 13 whose D goes 270 into the wind, 330 with some wind and 300 in calm with good consistency. Irons the same...an easy 8  is his 150 club. Chips well. Putts for crap. Plays adult blacks and blues or combos and if not for all the 3 putts he'd be in the 70s consistently. 

 

He loves playing (but probably loves fishing and vids as much). So, the question is, other than a local pro and typical local and regional tournaments, is there something people know about more immersive, like they have in other sports, like a "school of golf" or academy or some sorts for middle schoolers or high schoolers?  Just thinking to myself, kids have been out of school all year and if they have to go back 8 hours a day to a public school dressed like a doctor, I rather have him focus on the educational fundamentals and really learn golf for a couple years while he's really young and can gain a real edge while Corona shakes out and nothing is near normal anyway.

 

Thanks!

[leezer99]

6 hours ago, Bay Area Hack said:

Question for the group. I have a boy who just turned 13 whose D goes 270 into the wind, 330 with some wind and 300 in calm with good consistency. Irons the same...an easy 8  is his 150 club. Chips well. Putts for crap. Plays adult blacks and blues or combos and if not for all the 3 putts he'd be in the 70s consistently. 

 

He loves playing (but probably loves fishing and vids as much). So, the question is, other than a local pro and typical local and regional tournaments, is there something people know about more immersive, like they have in other sports, like a "school of golf" or academy or some sorts for middle schoolers or high schoolers?  Just thinking to myself, kids have been out of school all year and if they have to go back 8 hours a day to a public school dressed like a doctor, I rather have him focus on the educational fundamentals and really learn golf for a couple years while he's really young and can gain a real edge while Corona shakes out and nothing is near normal anyway.

 

Thanks!

 

Home - Junior Tour of Northern California (jtnc.org)

 

Junior GA of Northern California (jganc.com)

[wildcatden]

9 hours ago, Bay Area Hack said:

Question for the group. I have a boy who just turned 13 whose D goes 270 into the wind, 330 with some wind and 300 in calm with good consistency. Irons the same...an easy 8  is his 150 club. Chips well. Putts for crap. Plays adult blacks and blues or combos and if not for all the 3 putts he'd be in the 70s consistently. 

 

He loves playing (but probably loves fishing and vids as much). So, the question is, other than a local pro and typical local and regional tournaments, is there something people know about more immersive, like they have in other sports, like a "school of golf" or academy or some sorts for middle schoolers or high schoolers?  Just thinking to myself, kids have been out of school all year and if they have to go back 8 hours a day to a public school dressed like a doctor, I rather have him focus on the educational fundamentals and really learn golf for a couple years while he's really young and can gain a real edge while Corona shakes out and nothing is near normal anyway.

 

Thanks!

 

Home school everyday from 7am-12noon. Hire a swing coach and see them 3x week. Hire a short game/putting coach and see them 2x week. Play every day.  Probably need a golf club membership somewhere also.

 

Otherwise, if you look are looking for an "IMG sports school" in the Bay Area, I don't think one exists here (but I don't really know).   Academics are important because the odds of making it on Tour are very, very, very low.

 

[heavy_hitter]

23 hours ago, Bay Area Hack said:

Question for the group. I have a boy who just turned 13 whose D goes 270 into the wind, 330 with some wind and 300 in calm with good consistency. Irons the same...an easy 8  is his 150 club. Chips well. Putts for crap. Plays adult blacks and blues or combos and if not for all the 3 putts he'd be in the 70s consistently. 

 

He loves playing (but probably loves fishing and vids as much). So, the question is, other than a local pro and typical local and regional tournaments, is there something people know about more immersive, like they have in other sports, like a "school of golf" or academy or some sorts for middle schoolers or high schoolers?  Just thinking to myself, kids have been out of school all year and if they have to go back 8 hours a day to a public school dressed like a doctor, I rather have him focus on the educational fundamentals and really learn golf for a couple years while he's really young and can gain a real edge while Corona shakes out and nothing is near normal anyway.

 

Thanks!

 

What do blues and blacks mean?  Distance of the tees is what is needed.

[heavy_hitter]

13 hours ago, wildcatden said:

 

Home school everyday from 7am-12noon. Hire a swing coach and see them 3x week. Hire a short game/putting coach and see them 2x week. Play every day.  Probably need a golf club membership somewhere also.

 

Otherwise, if you look are looking for an "IMG sports school" in the Bay Area, I don't think one exists here (but I don't really know).   Academics are important because the odds of making it on Tour are very, very, very low.

 

 

A 13 year old driving it 300 is off the spectrum.  We play a lot of tournament golf and rarely even see a 15 year old driving it 300.  There are some out there of course, but it is rare.  300 yards is definitely in the 90th percentile.

[leezer99]

1 hour ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

A 13 year old driving it 300 is off the spectrum.  We play a lot of tournament golf and rarely even see a 15 year old driving it 300.  There are some out there of course, but it is rare.  300 yards is definitely in the 90th percentile.

A better gauge is 9 iron distance which is typically 1/2 your driver distance. Folks are better able to determine 9 iron distance because it’s shorter than driver. 

[Bay Area Hack]

5 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

What do blues and blacks mean?  Distance of the tees is what is needed.

 

His reglar course has blacks as tips and blues as second longest.

[Bay Area Hack]

18 hours ago, wildcatden said:

 

Home school everyday from 7am-12noon. Hire a swing coach and see them 3x week. Hire a short game/putting coach and see them 2x week. Play every day.  Probably need a golf club membership somewhere also.

 

Otherwise, if you look are looking for an "IMG sports school" in the Bay Area, I don't think one exists here (but I don't really know).   Academics are important because the odds of making it on Tour are very, very, very low.

 

Thanks for the input. Homeschooling is more agreeable to my wife after this year of home schooling. He has a PGA pro coach. Playing every day is hard. Yes, I was thinking an IMG type thing. But hate to send him off to FL! Too sad.

[Bay Area Hack]

3 hours ago, leezer99 said:

A better gauge is 9 iron distance which is typically 1/2 your driver distance. Folks are better able to determine 9 iron distance because it’s shorter than driver. 

Yesterday he got his first legit eagle on a par 5, 515 yard hole. With some wind at his back, he hit a 303 yard drive. Then, a 215 yard 5 hybrid to 6 feet and made the putt. So fun. He was so happy. He used his 9 iron yesterday on a 135 yard hole with an severely elevated green into the wind. Stuck it within 10 feet, pin high. So, I think his 9 iron is probably 140 with an easy 80 % swing. 

[heavy_hitter]

1 hour ago, Bay Area Hack said:

 

His reglar course has blacks as tips and blues as second longest.

Blacks and Blues mean nothing.  Tips mean nothing.  What is the yardage?

[wildcatden]

 

1 hour ago, Bay Area Hack said:

 

His reglar course has blacks as tips and blues as second longest.

 

6 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

Blacks and Blues mean nothing.  Tips mean nothing.  What is the yardage?

 

I would add that rating and slope can be helpful information also.  For example, the tips for our home course come out to ~6,900 yards but the rating/slope is 74.5/147.  So not a long course, but quite punishing if you are not in the fairway.  

[heavy_hitter]

Long and short courses are dictated by several other factors as well.  A 6900 yard course in South Florida is longer than a 6900 yard course up north.  No elevation changes and no more than 15 yards roll out any time of year.  Right now there is NO roll out.  Everything is carry.  I can take you to 6600 yard courses in South Florida that play LONGGGGGGG.

[MB19]

A 13-year-old with this kind of power... almost seems generational.  What is his height and weight?  What other sports and training has he gone through to this point? Wow.

 

As far as IMG goes, yeah, sending a kid that young there is something I can't imagine.  I read an account of a kid from Oregon going there for Tennis years back, and it sounded crazy depressing.  He ended up going to Texas Tech as a 5/6 singles player.  I think I would send my kid off to Exeter, Choate-Rosemary (somewhere academically prestigious) before doing something like that (pending grades, $$$ and the wife blocking it).   If you are going to pay that big money, make sure he gets the education to match. 

 

 

[wlm]

On 10/25/2020 at 9:28 AM, Bay Area Hack said:

Question for the group. I have a boy who just turned 13 whose D goes 270 into the wind, 330 with some wind and 300 in calm with good consistency. Irons the same...an easy 8  is his 150 club. Chips well. Putts for crap. Plays adult blacks and blues or combos and if not for all the 3 putts he'd be in the 70s consistently. 

 

He loves playing (but probably loves fishing and vids as much). So, the question is, other than a local pro and typical local and regional tournaments, is there something people know about more immersive, like they have in other sports, like a "school of golf" or academy or some sorts for middle schoolers or high schoolers?  Just thinking to myself, kids have been out of school all year and if they have to go back 8 hours a day to a public school dressed like a doctor, I rather have him focus on the educational fundamentals and really learn golf for a couple years while he's really young and can gain a real edge while Corona shakes out and nothing is near normal anyway.

 

Thanks!

Stanford has some good summer camps, and used to have a winter camp. They are likely Covid affected, but may be worth checking in to. A good Camp is immersive, but a week or less, so you can see how he likes it and if it helps. 

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

@Bay Area HackI think to Heavy's point. You always need to discuss course in relation to yardages, slope, and rating.

 

Son play from the tips here over the summer.

 

 

Which isn't the same as the tips here.

 

[heavy_hitter]

5 hours ago, TripleBogeysrbetter said:

@Bay Area HackI think to Heavy's point. You always need to discuss course in relation to yardages, slope, and rating.

 

Son play from the tips here over the summer.

 

 

Which isn't the same as the tips here.

 

 

Calling tee box colors is a pet peeve of mine.  To me it is an indication of someone not understanding tournament golf.  Not every course has blue, black, gold, etc.  The only thing that matters is the yardage and course rating.

Edited October 28, 2020 by heavy_hitter

[tiger1873]

On 10/26/2020 at 4:56 PM, MB19 said:

A 13-year-old with this kind of power... almost seems generational.  What is his height and weight?  What other sports and training has he gone through to this point? Wow.

 

As far as IMG goes, yeah, sending a kid that young there is something I can't imagine.  I read an account of a kid from Oregon going there for Tennis years back, and it sounded crazy depressing.  He ended up going to Texas Tech as a 5/6 singles player.  I think I would send my kid off to Exeter, Choate-Rosemary (somewhere academically prestigious) before doing something like that (pending grades, $$$ and the wife blocking it).   If you are going to pay that big money, make sure he gets the education to match. 

 

 

 

True Power means nothing if you can't control it.  The kids with a lot power have a very a lot harder learning curve when it comes to controlling it.  A lot kids drive the ball far because of mechanics but very few have power and control. The ones that master control over the ball with raw power are that are the ones you see end up winning Masters tournaments.

Edited October 28, 2020 by tiger1873

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

29 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

 

True Power means nothing if you can't control it.  The kids with a lot power have a very a lot harder learning curve when it comes to controlling it.  A lot kids drive the ball far because of mechanics but very few have power and control. The ones that master control over the ball with raw power are that are the ones you see end up winning Masters tournaments.

150 and in wins.

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

1 hour ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

Calling tee box colors is a pet peeve of mine.  To me it is an indication of someone not understanding the tournament golf.  Not every course has blue, black, gold, etc.  The only thing that matters is the yardage and curse rating.

Walked to many times with first time parents.  "So my son is only used to playing from whites and today it's the blues."  Me:  What yardage is he used to playing from.  Them:  The whites.

[MB19]

2 hours ago, tiger1873 said:

 

True Power means nothing if you can't control it.  The kids with a lot power have a very a lot harder learning curve when it comes to controlling it.  A lot kids drive the ball far because of mechanics but very few have power and control. The ones that master control over the ball with raw power are that are the ones you see end up winning Masters tournaments.

You're preaching to the choir, I was one of those kids (although not 300 yd at 13...).

 

But at 13, power is still an important piece to the puzzle and something to build on with professional oversight.

[leezer99]

Control vs. Speed should be its own topic.  Parents that are proponents of control in junior golf are the same ones that are concerned with how your 10 year old places in a US Kids Regional event.

[darter79]

Ask Bryon about control at the US Open in the thickest stuff out there oh yeah he won. Pros will take it further out there in the rough vs shorter in the fairway. Its the game and how its played today. Swing it fast hit it hard. Go find it do it again. 

Edited October 29, 2020 by darter79

[heavy_hitter]

41 minutes ago, darter79 said:

Ask Bryon about control at the US Open in the thickest stuff out there oh yeah he won. Pros will take it further out there in the rough vs shorter in the fairway. Its the game and how its played today. Swing it fast hit it hard. Go find it do it again. 

Yep.  Fairways mean nothing anymore.  Hit it is far as you can.  Make your mistake as far down the fairway as you can.  Should only be concerned about two things.  1.  How far you hit it.  2.  If you can find it or not no matter where it is.

[tiger1873]

2 hours ago, darter79 said:

Ask Bryon about control at the US Open in the thickest stuff out there oh yeah he won. Pros will take it further out there in the rough vs shorter in the fairway. Its the game and how its played today. Swing it fast hit it hard. Go find it do it again. 

 

Byron has plenty of control when it comes to the second shot. You also talking about a top player in the world he pretty accurate and can control the ball on the green.     This sort of skill takes years.

 

I am not also talking accuracy but actually control when your trying to score. A kid who has tons of power is going to have a hard time with distance and stopping the ball on the green.  

 

 

 

 

[tiger1873]

3 hours ago, leezer99 said:

Control vs. Speed should be its own topic.  Parents that are proponents of control in junior golf are the same ones that are concerned with how your 10 year old places in a US Kids Regional event.

 

Do you really believe that????   This is one the most ignorant statements I have ever read.  I find  the opposite most parents in US kids events just want to smash the ball down the fairway as close as possible and that works in those events.  You will never break par playing like in Major Event. Distance matters but you also need have the ball land near the pin.

[darter79]

31 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

 

Byron has plenty of control when it comes to the second shot. You also talking about a top player in the world he pretty accurate and can control the ball on the green.     This sort of skill takes years.

 

I am not also talking accuracy but actually control when your trying to score. A kid who has tons of power is going to have a hard time with distance and stopping the ball on the green.  

 

 

 

 

Are we talking about speed or control. Speed is measured with drivers generally no-one tracking 7i swing speed. We are talking about hitting bombs if that is in the rough who cares. Irons wedges are a CONTROL game but no one should be swinging 120% with irons. Most people swing irons at 80% or should be. If you can't stop the ball on a green with an iron you're using the wrong ball or the wrong irons because you're not hitting it high enough. 

Edited October 29, 2020 by darter79

[iteachgolf]

2 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

Yep.  Fairways mean nothing anymore.  Hit it is far as you can.  Make your mistake as far down the fairway as you can.  Should only be concerned about two things.  1.  How far you hit it.  2.  If you can find it or not no matter where it is.

Only worked at Winged Foot because all the greens are open in front.  Phil almost won hitting 3 fairways.  Historically driving accuracy hasn’t mattered there. Almost all other US Open venues you won’t win hitting 45% of your fairways.   It was a perfect storm for that golf course.  That strategy cannot be applied across the board

[leezer99]

17 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

 

Do you really believe that????   This is one the most ignorant statements I have ever read.  I find  the opposite most parents in US kids events just want to smash the ball down the fairway as close as possible and that works in those events.  You will never break par playing like in Major Event. Distance matters but you also need have the ball land near the pin.

 

I don't care what you say, a kid that hits a pitching wedge into a green is going to hit it closer than a kid hitting a 4 iron.  And even Carl Lewis wants to know how you make the jump from a US Kids event to a Major because that chasm is huge.

 

Here's the first article I haven't ever read that I found when Googling proximity to hole.  I could also link about a thousand TPI articles, tweets from major winners, etc. 

 

https://shotscope.com/blog/stats/approach-shots-average-proximity/

 

 

 

Conclusion
The statistics revealed in this blog, highlight that approach shots are hit closer to the pin, the closer to the green a golfer is. This means that when selecting what club to hit for the previous shot (tee shot or par 5 lay up), the aim should be to get as close to the hole as possible. The lie type of the approach shot should be considered too, as it is evident that rough and bunkers impact the shot.