Speed

[leezer99]

So besides setting up your Amazon subscription for Orgain Protein shakes to deliver every week and hitting the gym for 6 hours a day what are you doing with your junior this winter season to gain speed?  

[wildcatden]

1. Speedsticks (have been more committed to this since July).

2. Working on our pitching mechanics for baseball in the spring.

3. Skateboarding. 

Edited September 24, 2020 by wildcatden

[Kcct82]

Just gonna work out. And actually do need the shakes because my kid lost weight from working out so much. 

[heavy_hitter]

Here is the million dollar question.

 

Do Super Speed Stick really work before puberty?  After watching my kid progress, the Speed Sticks did not work for him until he gained strength.

 

Right now for him it is just working out and Super Speed Sticks.  They are helping now.  His coach thinks he will see a 290 carry within the next 6 months.  Right now sitting about 265ish carry.

[wildcatden]

15 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

Here is the million dollar question.

 

Do Super Speed Stick really work before puberty?  After watching my kid progress, the Speed Sticks did not work for him until he gained strength.

 

Right now for him it is just working out and Super Speed Sticks.  They are helping now.  His coach thinks he will see a 290 carry within the next 6 months.  Right now sitting about 265ish carry.

 

Certainly a good question HH.  My 9YO is finally hitting driver well again.  We started the Level 1 Speedsticks program for juniors in mid-July. We started Level 2 at the beginning of September.   Also, we have been working on his form a ton.  Almost always comes back to these three things for him:

 

1. Setup/alignment

2. Swing path

3. Mindset (to crush it)

 

So far it is working.  Probably a combination of Speedsticks and the other work.  As long as the Speedsticks aren't hurting (physically or with the swing mechanics), it seems like pretty cheap insurance to do them.

 

 

[MB19]

I think we're going to work on building the athlete more than we had been over the past six months.  Gonna work on some hand-eye coordination for sure--every time I toss something at my kids, their first instinct isn't to catch it--need to change that.

 

They haven't been doing any martial arts training since the start of the year, but that is changing in two weeks.  We also have been lax on the Super Speed sticks, and they are also ready to move to the next size.

[ConcernedBoutCOVID]

do most college players or professionals use these speed sticks?

[leezer99]

1 minute ago, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:

do most college players or professionals use these speed sticks?

 

Whenever you see SS or Orange Whip posting photos of them 'in the bag' it's most likely because the caddies are paid to carry them.

[BFD3]

My club just started a “speed and strength” training program for kids this past week. They push a weighted sled, do ladder drills and some indoor training with heavy ropes, weights and weight machines. Whether or not it helps my kids’ golf games, they’re enjoying it.

Edited September 24, 2020 by bdecena

[ConcernedBoutCOVID]

I think doing whatever the top players in college or pros are doing makes sense.  They all seem to be in the gym and improving their bodies.  Everything else is probably questionable.

 

[kekoa]

1 hour ago, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:

I think doing whatever the top players in college or pros are doing makes sense.  They all seem to be in the gym and improving their bodies.  Everything else is probably questionable.

 

I'd have to agree.  Even the younger kids these days are so conscious of distance these days almost to a detriment.  Just because Bobby over there hits it 200 and you hit it 180 doesn't make Bobby a better player.  The parents of the shorter hitters seem even more concerned about distance.  Speed is great as a young golfer but not a necessity.  Obviously when the kid hits 14-15 speed becomes paramount.

 

As for the speedsticks I think they are just a gimmick.  

[darter79]

2 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

Here is the million dollar question.

 

Do Super Speed Stick really work before puberty?  After watching my kid progress, the Speed Sticks did not work for him until he gained strength.

 

Right now for him it is just working out and Super Speed Sticks.  They are helping now.  His coach thinks he will see a 290 carry within the next 6 months.  Right now sitting about 265ish carry.

I've said this for a while with other kids around the same age as mine. I do see the value in swinging anything left handed. That could be a PVC pipe anything. That's where I've noticed bigger speed gains. 

[heavy_hitter]

2 hours ago, kekoa said:

I'd have to agree.  Even the younger kids these days are so conscious of distance these days almost to a detriment.  Just because Bobby over there hits it 200 and you hit it 180 doesn't make Bobby a better player.  The parents of the shorter hitters seem even more concerned about distance.  Speed is great as a young golfer but not a necessity.  Obviously when the kid hits 14-15 speed becomes paramount.

 

As for the speedsticks I think they are just a gimmick.  

 

Definitely isn't a gimmick.  Phil uses them and increased swing speed by doing so in his late 40's.  I just think there is a certain time to do over speed training.  Until they are big and strong enough not sure how much they work.  Par4success did a study on them and they do work.  They found that the system worked better just using the green stick in their study.  There is definitely a science behind the training though.

[wildcatden]

@heavy_hitter In regards to the Par4Success study with the Speedsticks, I asked Superspeed about it for my junior back in July 2020 and they responded with:

 

"Regarding the par 4 success piece you referenced, they did a very poor job with that and we would not recommend you put any stock into it. They did the protocols incorrectly with a much higher volume than we recommend with a very low amount of participants. Our protocols are quite low volume to start and at his age if he is playing golf they will in no way be close to an amount of reps that would stress him. If he plays golf he can perform these protocols. 

 

Regarding only utilizing one club, that defeats the whole purpose of OverSpeed training where you need differing weights to elicit the proper neurological response. Just swinging a light club is not the same. This concept has been used extensively for hundreds of years and popularized by the Soviet powerhouse Olympic track and field teams. 

 

We have worked with more people using these training methods than anyone else in golf and have the most data. At this point it is over 20,000 which is why we are confident in our protocols and recommendations."

 

Of course, I didn't expect them to not defend their product, but that is their response.  I also agree.....not a gimmick.

[leezer99]

My buddy says the Tour Tempo Speedball is a better tool to generate speed than the Speed Sticks.  Here are his Trackman numbers and he's like 165 lbs soaking wet.

[MB19]

10 hours ago, bdecena said:

My club just started a “speed and strength” training program for kids this past week. They push a weighted sled, do ladder drills and some indoor training with heavy ropes, weights and weight machines. Whether or not it helps my kids’ golf games, they’re enjoying it.

Damn, sounds like the NFL combine!  Bet the kids have a blast!

[Kcct82]

9 hours ago, kekoa said:

I'd have to agree.  Even the younger kids these days are so conscious of distance these days almost to a detriment.  Just because Bobby over there hits it 200 and you hit it 180 doesn't make Bobby a better player.  The parents of the shorter hitters seem even more concerned about distance.  Speed is great as a young golfer but not a necessity.  Obviously when the kid hits 14-15 speed becomes paramount.

 

As for the speedsticks I think they are just a gimmick.  

I’m one of those parents. Speed is a concern when you can’t reach some Par 4’s with driver + 3w lol. 

[BFD3]

6 hours ago, leezer99 said:

My buddy says the Tour Tempo Speedball is a better tool to generate speed than the Speed Sticks.  Here are his Trackman numbers and he's like 165 lbs soaking wet.

Damn you. I never heard of Tour Tempo before but I’m about to buy the app right now!

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

Honestly son has three shakes a day.  He has gained so much muscle and strength.  Before the driver was swinging him but now he has more SS.

 

We tried the speed sticks last winter, but they really threw off his swing. 

 

One word of caution about juniors working out.  Make sure they are working the right things.  Its actually possible to work out all winter and slow down your rotation swing.

 

One of the biggest concerns/questions I have with college coaches.  Their strength and conditioning are usually new graduates and not might be familiar with golf

[dlc1914]

On 9/24/2020 at 11:09 AM, heavy_hitter said:

Here is the million dollar question.

 

Do Super Speed Stick really work before puberty?  After watching my kid progress, the Speed Sticks did not work for him until he gained strength.

 

Right now for him it is just working out and Super Speed Sticks.  They are helping now.  His coach thinks he will see a 290 carry within the next 6 months.  Right now sitting about 265ish carry.

How old and what was your sons Hgt/Wgt when you started seeing the speedsticks help?  

[iteachgolf]

I’d highly recommend Tom House’s program over speed sticks.  Over speed training NOT in the sport you participate in has many benefits including added speed without doing any harm to mechanics.  It’s what TPI recommends and has seen larger gains with than speed sticks.  
 

To see gains with over speed training you must go all out and have proper rest.  If you don’t go all out you won’t see gains, but swinging all out with total reckless abandon will also result in poor mechanics.  For golfers over speed training with throwing mechanics I’ve found way more productive and safer

[tiger1873]

We used the speed sticks and they do work.  But I also question them for younger kids.

 

for younger kids just going out and hitting a driver is probably more important. 
 

older kids I think doing speed training makes more sense for sure but you have to be careful. I am hearing of more kids getting injury’s.

 

Also after having access to trackman or another high end launch monitor is crucial.  You simply can not trust the cheap speed radars and launch monitors out there a lot them overstate the speed by a lot and are not getting results they think.
 

 

Edited September 27, 2020 by tiger1873

[leezer99]

2 hours ago, iteachgolf said:

I’d highly recommend Tom House’s program over speed sticks.  Over speed training NOT in the sport you participate in has many benefits including added speed without doing any harm to mechanics.  It’s what TPI recommends and has seen larger gains with than speed sticks.  
 

To see gains with over speed training you must go all out and have proper rest.  If you don’t go all out you won’t see gains, but swinging all out with total reckless abandon will also result in poor mechanics.  For golfers over speed training with throwing mechanics I’ve found way more productive and safer

I worked with Tom as a junior 30+ years ago and still follow him. He’s probably the best coach I’ve ever spent time with. 

[heavy_hitter]

20 hours ago, dlc1914 said:

How old and what was your sons Hgt/Wgt when you started seeing the speedsticks help?  

15

 

5' 7" 175

[heavy_hitter]

17 hours ago, iteachgolf said:

I’d highly recommend Tom House’s program over speed sticks.  Over speed training NOT in the sport you participate in has many benefits including added speed without doing any harm to mechanics.  It’s what TPI recommends and has seen larger gains with than speed sticks.  
 

To see gains with over speed training you must go all out and have proper rest.  If you don’t go all out you won’t see gains, but swinging all out with total reckless abandon will also result in poor mechanics.  For golfers over speed training with throwing mechanics I’ve found way more productive and safer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY3BQ_lNGEM

Edited September 28, 2020 by heavy_hitter

[MB19]

My son and I have been watching (a probably unhealthy amount of) Formula-1 over the past two months.  While I haven't let him watch the Netflix Docu-series on F-1, I've watched it a couple of times and have been impressed with the training regimond of a these drivers.  Particularly, I've been impressed with some of the reflexive/coordination drills they do with boxing/punching, tennis balls, Batak machine, ropes, juggling, etc...

 

While I know such drills can transfer to many sports, is there any thought on this being able to translate into more hand-speed which could yield more club speed?  Random, I know, but I'm curious.

[leezer99]

My son and daughter have both played the piano for years.  Definitely helps with coordination, rythm, tempo and the ability to engage left and right brain to execute.  They also practice and pre-covid would participate in recitals in front of 20+ other kids plus their parents, grand parents, etc.  If you have stage fright this isn't where you want to be.  LOL

 

 

[MB19]

1 hour ago, leezer99 said:

My son and daughter have both played the piano for years.  Definitely helps with coordination, rythm, tempo and the ability to engage left and right brain to execute.  They also practice and pre-covid would participate in recitals in front of 20+ other kids plus their parents, grand parents, etc.  If you have stage fright this isn't where you want to be.  LOL

 

 

Great insight, thank you.

[heavy_hitter]

On 9/27/2020 at 3:27 PM, iteachgolf said:

I’d highly recommend Tom House’s program over speed sticks.  Over speed training NOT in the sport you participate in has many benefits including added speed without doing any harm to mechanics.  It’s what TPI recommends and has seen larger gains with than speed sticks.  
 

To see gains with over speed training you must go all out and have proper rest.  If you don’t go all out you won’t see gains, but swinging all out with total reckless abandon will also result in poor mechanics.  For golfers over speed training with throwing mechanics I’ve found way more productive and safer

 

How many days a week should the Tom House regimen be done?

[leezer99]

10 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

How many days a week should the Tom House regimen be done?

I would recommend starting with this TPI article:

 

How Much Volume Is Too Much?

Most of the studies that I was able to find specifically on increasing swing speed looked at about 100 swings 3x/week (baseball).  In practice, common overspeed protocols in golf recommend the same frequency (3x/wk) but increase the volume over the course of the year for a total swings in a year of just under 12,000 additional swings on top of regular playing and practice per year.