The Stack System

[jas0nmacisaac]

1 hour ago, Bbunty said:

Looks like they've got a Bluetooth PRGR in the works. 

I hope they make it affordable

[Rasser75]

12 hours ago, Earleybird said:

Need advice from someone who went f****** backwards like I am. At what point to I f*** this device in the bin!? Hit highs of 104 on the 195g, plateaued at that for half a programme, now I've dropped back to a 98. That's not even where I was at with my very first max swing session on the foundation. 

Don’t freak out.

 

Your body might be in recovery mode. Try and give it more rest time. 
 

Have also happened to me. It’s not a linear progression. I was 5-6 MPh down with my driver and ball at some point during one of the programmes. It turned out I was over working my body - and it takes time. Im in the forties so expect slower progression compared to a 15y old.

 

What’s your recovery time? And how much mobilty and strength are you doing in parallel? I would consult a physio to make sure you are working optimal, there is no one size fits all strength and speed programme.

 

 

[PAndaemonium89]

Ehyoooo! Watched the Bryson video and got me all jacked up. Finally broke some records!

 

Difference was tempo, sped it up and held at the top. My concern is how will that translate to my fitted clubs that were set for a very smooth tempo. Anyone’s impact get screwed up due to tempo change? 

[Earleybird]

10 hours ago, Rasser75 said:

Don’t freak out.

 

Your body might be in recovery mode. Try and give it more rest time. 
 

Have also happened to me. It’s not a linear progression. I was 5-6 MPh down with my driver and ball at some point during one of the programmes. It turned out I was over working my body - and it takes time. Im in the forties so expect slower progression compared to a 15y old.

 

What’s your recovery time? And how much mobilty and strength are you doing in parallel? I would consult a physio to make sure you are working optimal, there is no one size fits all strength and speed programme.

 

 

 

I'm freaking out!!

 

Perhaps I'm impatient, but I'm quite confused. Struggling to understand how I'm at my slowest despite dozens of sessions. I'm 40, fairly fit and swing around 100+ with Driver. I figured this would be a handy 10mph increase. I'll keep at it until the Summer before giving up. 

 

Did anyone notice any other benefits beyond an increase in speed? Was swing path improved for example? Trying to find some positives. 

[Chief Penguin]

19 hours ago, Earleybird said:

 

I'm freaking out!!

 

Perhaps I'm impatient, but I'm quite confused. Struggling to understand how I'm at my slowest despite dozens of sessions. I'm 40, fairly fit and swing around 100+ with Driver. I figured this would be a handy 10mph increase. I'll keep at it until the Summer before giving up. 

 

Did anyone notice any other benefits beyond an increase in speed? Was swing path improved for example? Trying to find some positives. 

My $0.02 is to just keep going. I’ve had dips in speed at multiple times over the past two years and I think it’s best to learn to accept it. Usually this comes at a time when I’m placing a lot of demands on my body. I went for a fitting two weeks ago and my CHS was down 5 mph. Unfortunate, but thankfully my fitter has seen me swing at higher speeds.
 

I think it’s also helpful to look at how you’re training - I’m not an expert but if you’re training for strength and doing nothing for power there may be something there. I do a lot of jumps and med ball slams these days. 

Lastly, I do find stack training helpful for keeping my path from getting too extreme and it’s a sort of proxy for practicing - not as good as hitting balls but better than nothing. It also kind of forces me to look for efficiencies and gives you immediate feedback on your movements. At 5’9 175 I don’t have the advantage of long levers, and I find that swings where I try to do too much are not usually my fastest.

 

[Jlocke22]

8 hours ago, Chief Penguin said:

My $0.02 is to just keep going. I’ve had dips in speed at multiple times over the past two years and I think it’s best to learn to accept it. Usually this comes at a time when I’m placing a lot of demands on my body. I went for a fitting two weeks ago and my CHS was down 5 mph. Unfortunate, but thankfully my fitter has seen me swing at higher speeds.
 

I think it’s also helpful to look at how you’re training - I’m not an expert but if you’re training for strength and doing nothing for power there may be something there. I do a lot of jumps and med ball slams these days. 

Lastly, I do find stack training helpful for keeping my path from getting too extreme and it’s a sort of proxy for practicing - not as good as hitting balls but better than nothing. It also kind of forces me to look for efficiencies and gives you immediate feedback on your movements. At 5’9 175 I don’t have the advantage of long levers, and I find that swings where I try to do too much are not usually my fastest.

 

Agreed. Speed is weird. Been times where I kill a PR then next 5/6 sessions are down then work back up. Been times where I felt great but speed is down but usually during times where I am also pushing in the gym, traveling, sleeping less, or eating/drinking worse than normal or warmup is crap. 
 

I just try and do a solid warmup, sometimes even swing it at 0g fast to get the body moving. 
 

if all else fails take 3 days off from the gym and stack and make sure to get some solid rest/recovery and eat well and let it rip again. 

[Earleybird]

Solid advice, appreciate that. I'm playing golf 30 years and the penny hadn't dropped that performance can easily drop from one game to the next or for a period of time. This, of course, is no different. I'll keep pushing with the process. Will try mix up the gym training, thanks for the tip. 

[Jlocke22]

Finished surprisingly pretty strong for how hard I was pushing in the gym + how badly I treated my diet over the holidays compared to normal. 
 

It recommended Full Speed Spectrum again but figured, screw it, let’s have some fun and mix it up. Going to try the Borgmeier program + on ball speed sessions and keep crushing it in the gym. 

Edited January 2 by Jlocke22

[jas0nmacisaac]

2 hours ago, Jlocke22 said:

Finished surprisingly pretty strong for how hard I was pushing in the gym + how badly I treated my diet over the holidays compared to normal. 
 

It recommended Full Speed Spectrum again but figured, screw it, let’s have some fun and mix it up. Going to try the Borgmeier program + on ball speed sessions and keep crushing it in the gym. 

Excellent work, a max effort speed session with the Orange Whip had me hit 117 on a swing with 240g today on the first set. Unfortunately I burnt out by the time I made it to 195g. 

[Chief Penguin]

To the point of my post above, the last ~2-3 weeks I’d been 2-3 mph below my current benchmark of 106 

mph for 195g. Today, for whatever reason, I blew past that up to 108.

 

kind of like the game, progress doesn’t seem to be linear. 

 

I also notice that my speed always seems to get slow during phase 2 of Full Speed Spectrum.

 

side note - I’m continually in awe of how fast some of you guys move it. I can only assume that you’re tall and/or in your 20s 😆

Edited January 2 by Chief Penguin

[GullLakeMi]

On 12/31/2023 at 5:11 PM, Earleybird said:

 

I'm freaking out!!

 

Perhaps I'm impatient, but I'm quite confused. Struggling to understand how I'm at my slowest despite dozens of sessions. I'm 40, fairly fit and swing around 100+ with Driver. I figured this would be a handy 10mph increase. I'll keep at it until the Summer before giving up. 

 

Did anyone notice any other benefits beyond an increase in speed? Was swing path improved for example? Trying to find some positives. 

 

I've done less sessions than you, but can be similarly impatient! Thought I'd mention...  Are you focused both on swinging physically fast as well as efficient?

 

When I started with Stack I was just trying to swing physically fast (hard) especially on max intent swings.  I happened to take a lesson, which I rarely due, to address consistency issues and was suggested to look at my sequence to address some gaps.  Since then, I have focused more on sequence.  My speed was similar, but I occasionally have swings that are 3-5 mph faster than the set that I attribute to optimal sequencing.

 

Couple "sequence" items for me:  (1) full hip turn in backswing, (2) arms getting width in backswing, but not reaching behind body and (2) starting downswing more from ground up.  I also feel this helps align the Stack swings with my golf swing.

[Elee913]

Just started the program after having used speed sticks in the past. One question though. With the speed sticks you always go max effort. But for the baseline test, I didn’t notice until after that these are supposed to be Full Effort, not max. Is everyone here measuring their baselines at Full vs Max efforts? Is there a large difference between the two? I just want to make sure I start at the right level.  

[jas0nmacisaac]

5 hours ago, Elee913 said:

Just started the program after having used speed sticks in the past. One question though. With the speed sticks you always go max effort. But for the baseline test, I didn’t notice until after that these are supposed to be Full Effort, not max. Is everyone here measuring their baselines at Full vs Max efforts? Is there a large difference between the two? I just want to make sure I start at the right level.  

4 mph roughly on average

[Jlocke22]

12 hours ago, Elee913 said:

Just started the program after having used speed sticks in the past. One question though. With the speed sticks you always go max effort. But for the baseline test, I didn’t notice until after that these are supposed to be Full Effort, not max. Is everyone here measuring their baselines at Full vs Max efforts? Is there a large difference between the two? I just want to make sure I start at the right level.  

The baseline test and the end (progress check) will be at Full Intent. Depending on the program Phase 1 and Phase 4 also normally include Full intent swings mixed with Max. From my experience in programs, Phase 2/3 is almost always Max and possibly a mix of step swings.  

[Elee913]

So I did redo the test.  Turned out to be closer to a 7 mph drop, but maybe because I did it back to back days.  But looking forward to starting.  I do think my driver swing speeds below are accurate, but feel like the espeed estimate is a touch low.  

 

Any thoughts on where I should be heading to speed wise based on this baseline?  I definitely lost speed last year, but hoping I can get into the high 90s (breaking 100 mph would be great).  Would love to hear from anyone else that started in this zip code.  

[Jlocke22]

@Elee913 I imagine back to back days would have you slower. 

 

I took a break during the summer as I was having some hand issues and lent it to my father in law for a bit (he never finished a full program because of travel) however he is 60 and espeed was at 86 off the start and I think he made it to 10 sessions and was up to a 95 or 96 espeed and noticeably longer on the course not only off the tee but with irons. 
 

You will get there! Excited to hear updates! 

[Augster]

On 1/2/2024 at 11:34 AM, Earleybird said:

Solid advice, appreciate that. I'm playing golf 30 years and the penny hadn't dropped that performance can easily drop from one game to the next or for a period of time. This, of course, is no different. I'll keep pushing with the process. Will try mix up the gym training, thanks for the tip. 

Keep at it and watch the videos from

the Borgmeier programs that are included in the app. Add some of those moves to your swing. 
 

Also remember, we aren’t really making “golf swings”. We are trying to move a weighted stick as fast as possible at different weights. 
 

Learn what you HAVE to do to make your body SWING THE STICK FASTER. The faster you can swing the stick, the faster your body will be able to move to swing an actual club. But they aren’t the same. 
 

For me, to see any stick gains, I had to make my backswing incredibly long compared to my “normal” swing when I started. I also had to loosen up my wrists to get a bigger wrist c0ck. To generate any real speed, these are the things I need to do. With the stick and with a club. 
 

After you build up your body by moving the stick faster and faster, THEN you can start worrying about face control with a club at higher speeds. 
 

Watch this Bryson video for speed training. He doesn’t swing like this on the course. Neither should you when training with the Stack. 
 

 

[Rasser75]

8 hours ago, Elee913 said:

So I did redo the test.  Turned out to be closer to a 7 mph drop, but maybe because I did it back to back days.  But looking forward to starting.  I do think my driver swing speeds below are accurate, but feel like the espeed estimate is a touch low.  

 

Any thoughts on where I should be heading to speed wise based on this baseline?  I definitely lost speed last year, but hoping I can get into the high 90s (breaking 100 mph would be great).  Would love to hear from anyone else that started in this zip code.  

Just a note. I would NEVER do back to back days on speed training. Risk of injury becomes very high!

 

I had a few experiences with injuries. Pulled muscles in my lower back and shoulder. So give you body time to recover.

 

Compared to the super speed - the stack gives you alot of the heavy weights. Especially if you do the full spectrum programme. Those gave me problems and Im fairly fit and do regularly strength and mobility training in parallel.

[jas0nmacisaac]

Huge day today, kept the same Colin Montgomery takeaway but sped it up which seemed to improve the sequencing. You can see where is changed it.

 

[Jlocke22]

Had a weird day today. Started Borgmeier. His little counter move had me swing my best 195g by 2 mph once. That was pretty cool. 
 

worked through the session with high numbers similar to what I ended last program so got out the net in the garage like I did last week to have a full on speed session with driver and ball…. 
 

PRGR got real funky and tried a few different placements (same setup as I normally do and have in past + still reading full on batteries) First drive read 121, second 123, then 138, then about 6 or 7 in a row at 115, never higher or lower. So tried to restart it and 5 more at 117. Weird. Shut it off and blasted about 20 more balls and called it a day. 
 

I will chalk up the 195 g PR as a win and move on. 

[jas0nmacisaac]

1 hour ago, Jlocke22 said:

Had a weird day today. Started Borgmeier. His little counter move had me swing my best 195g by 2 mph once. That was pretty cool. 
 

worked through the session with high numbers similar to what I ended last program so got out the net in the garage like I did last week to have a full on speed session with driver and ball…. 
 

PRGR got real funky and tried a few different placements (same setup as I normally do and have in past + still reading full on batteries) First drive read 121, second 123, then 138, then about 6 or 7 in a row at 115, never higher or lower. So tried to restart it and 5 more at 117. Weird. Shut it off and blasted about 20 more balls and called it a day. 
 

I will chalk up the 195 g PR as a win and move on. 

Love when you hit PRs. I hit highs with 280 (108), 75 (140) and 195 (122). Just means that ceiling is raising.

[Brooks_Cupcake]

Well I will say that the cadence of 

Day 1, Stack

Day 2, Lift

Day 3, Rest

Day 4, Stack ….

 

really seems to be helping 

 

44 years old in a month, and never has a session in the last 18 months of stack where I hit 115mph so many times in a row.

 

 

Edited January 6 by Brooks_Cupcake

[Jlocke22]

1 hour ago, Brooks_Cupcake said:

Well I will say that the cadence of 

Day 1, Stack

Day 2, Lift

Day 3, Rest

Day 3, Stack 

 

really seems to be helping 

 

44 years old in a month, and never has a session in the last 18 months of stack where I hit 115mph so many times in a row.

 

 

Let’s Go!!! Awesome 

[Rasser75]

4 hours ago, Brooks_Cupcake said:

Well I will say that the cadence of 

Day 1, Stack

Day 2, Lift

Day 3, Rest

Day 4, Stack ….

 

really seems to be helping 

 

44 years old in a month, and never has a session in the last 18 months of stack where I hit 115mph so many times in a row.

 

 

Nice! 💪

 

how much CHS have you gained in 18 months?

[Brooks_Cupcake]

7 hours ago, Rasser75 said:

Nice! 💪

 

how much CHS have you gained in 18 months?

5ish

[jas0nmacisaac]

A question for both those who haven’t seen improvements and those that have. Are you making adjustments with your swing from rep to rep? One of the things  that has worked for me is trying as many little changes as possible to see if there is a speed jump. This is the second time I’ve essentially started the stack system from scratch and both times it seems ive gained far more speed than the average person.

 

When I mean change aspects of the swing, I have tried almost everything including:

Stance

Foot Flare

Grip

Pressure points with grip

Grip pressure

Takeaway direction

Takeaway speed

Breathing

Engaging core

Swing width

Release Points

Radar positioning

Squatting

 

These are off the top of my head. If you are keeping your swing relatively the same, I don’t think you are going to see results. None of our swings are perfect, we all probably need massive changes to improve anyway.

 

Another 2mph gain. Below was my last session in 2021.

 

 

Edited January 6 by jas0nmacisaac

[EagleGSU]

Received the PRGR today. Might have to play around with the set up a bit. I was getting some accurate readings when compared to my BLP that was sitting right beside it. But most of the time it was way off the mark. And it was only close when I hit a ball, and swinging without a ball it was reading 10+ mph slower than my normal swing. And randomly would jump from giving me a 70mph 8 iron swing to a 105 mph 8 iron swing... with some swings being where I actually am which is in that 80-87 mph range.

 

Not sure what to make of this.

 

this is a picture of the way I have it set up for reference.

 

Edited January 6 by EagleGSU

[Seamus_McDuff]

4 minutes ago, EagleGSU said:

Received the PRGR today. Might have to play around with the set up a bit. I was getting some accurate readings when compared to my BLP that was sitting right beside it. But most of the time it was way off the mark. And it was only close when I hit a ball, and swinging without a ball it was reading 10+ mph slower than my normal swing. And randomly would jump from giving me a 70mph 8 iron swing to a 105 mph 8 iron swing... with some swings being where I actually am which is in that 80-87 mph range.

 

Not sure what to make of this.

 

this is a picture of the way I have it set up for reference.

 

 

I’d move it both closer and higher. And try to have it hanging slightly off the front of whatever you put it on top of. 

[EagleGSU]

40 minutes ago, Seamus_McDuff said:

 

I’d move it both closer and higher. And try to have it hanging slightly off the front of whatever you put it on top of. 

this seemed to help some. Still getting much different numbers between swinging with the ball and swinging without. The carry distances are pretty close with the bushnell, however on a 83 mph swing on bushnell, it might read 110mph on PRGR...but the carry will read about the same but with a much worse smash factor. Which I'm only concerned with the club head speed on PRGR unfortunately.

Edited January 6 by EagleGSU

[Retsof2021]

3 hours ago, EagleGSU said:

Received the PRGR today. Might have to play around with the set up a bit. I was getting some accurate readings when compared to my BLP that was sitting right beside it. But most of the time it was way off the mark. And it was only close when I hit a ball, and swinging without a ball it was reading 10+ mph slower than my normal swing. And randomly would jump from giving me a 70mph 8 iron swing to a 105 mph 8 iron swing... with some swings being where I actually am which is in that 80-87 mph range.

I was having the same issues. I elevated mine more because I’m also on a mat. I have it on a small box that is maybe 5 inches high. Still get a few misreads but it’s better.