The Stack System

[jas0nmacisaac]

Does anyone really not like the step drills? My swing is a little slower doing it and I’m not really sure it has done anything to be honest. I sort of regret not doing foundations again.

[doctor220]

13 minutes ago, jas0nmacisaac said:

Does anyone really not like the step drills? My swing is a little slower doing it and I’m not really sure it has done anything to be honest. I sort of regret not doing foundations again.

Ya I kinda struggle with them but also think they are good for the lateral sequencing of the swing. I find my technique is very variable with the step swings and my speed has a bit higher ranges than normal swings. 
 

I do think working on them ended up helping me get faster. 

[Cameaux]

My speed drops a good bit on step drills.  I've been of the opinion that the step swings simply reveal that I have poor lower body sequencing as it relates to generating speed.  I'd love to get on force plates with someone experienced in looking at that data to try and understand that better and get an explanation in my deficiencies. 

 

Until then, I've been continuing doing the step swings in the hopes that one day, I may "self-organize" into a better sequence.  Though it seems I'm fairly stubborn in that regard, as I've yet to really do it, despite an awful lot of step swings...

[jas0nmacisaac]

Im sure I’m getting better at it, just hard to see with the new radar. Any tips for how you step, is it like a jab in boxing or is it a pure weight drop? I find I’m only on the left foot for a split second before pushing off.

[johnsomp]

I have a relatively short backswing, not like Rahm, but when i am hitting it good my club defintely does not get neat to parallel to the ground. Listening to Sasho on various podcasts he keeps suggesting a longer hand path and more turn for speed. When i do that with the stack, lifting my front heel and getting my hands really high, i get a bump in speed provided that my sequencing stays good. However, when i try it on the course, i end up striking it poorly which i attribute to too much movement with my head and upper body resulting im poor face contact. Am i just ingraning a motor pattern that is going to give me poor face contact? Is the stack not helpful for those of us that have shorter backswings? When the stack calls for max effort, should i use my standard length backswing and swing as fast as possible to see if i can pick up speed with the back swing i need to make regular good contact?

[dcmidnight]

On 2/20/2024 at 6:26 PM, KC4441 said:

I’m ok with what’s going on right now, mostly because I was stuck this offseason with not nearly getting to my numbers from middle of last.  At a minimum the Stack has unlocked more speed and I’m ahead of last year at this point.  My cruising speed has definitely increased 

 

I finished Heavy Hitter this week and was not a huge fan of it. It increased my speed but I did not like it as much as other programs. A majority of the sessions were just 4 sets with a warm up, then a couple of 240 sets and finishing with 165. I would not do it again. On the check in session my driver SS at the range has gone from 108 to 112 since I started.

 

Last year I basically did this for the most part. But this year I mixed in a lot more light dumbbell/kettlebell work along with 4-5 days a week of half hour Peloton rides.

 

Not to sound like a broken record but I think Stack - or any speed training - is absolutely better than doing nothing in the offseason. 

[jas0nmacisaac]

7 minutes ago, dcmidnight said:

 

I finished Heavy Hitter this week and was not a huge fan of it. It increased my speed but I did not like it as much as other programs. A majority of the sessions were just 4 sets with a warm up, then a couple of 240 sets and finishing with 165. I would not do it again. On the check in session my driver SS at the range has gone from 108 to 112 since I started.

 

Last year I basically did this for the most part. But this year I mixed in a lot more light dumbbell/kettlebell work along with 4-5 days a week of half hour Peloton rides.

 

Not to sound like a broken record but I think Stack - or any speed training - is absolutely better than doing nothing in the offseason. 

4mph increase on anything that isn’t your first program is a success. I would kill for that right now. That would give me a 132 ESpeed.

[harpua728]

For those of us that don’t go to the gym, would we be the best home workouts (either with dumbbells or no weights at all) to help our swing speeds. Asking for a friend 🙂 

 

Thanks

Edited February 22 by harpua728

[jas0nmacisaac]

1 hour ago, harpua728 said:

For those of us that don’t go to the gym, would we be the best home workouts (either with dumbbells or no weights at all) to help our swing speeds. Asking for a friend 🙂 

No weights, what I would recommend is the following:
1.) Box jumps - 4 sets of 5 reps

2.) Pushups - 4 sets 5 pushups as fast/explosive as you can (get air if you can)

3.) Perform Downswing Band Isometrics - use both arms, right arm, and left arm in each of the top of your backswing, half way down, and impact positions - hold each for 8-10 seconds - add band resistance as soon as you are able

[dcmidnight]

2 hours ago, harpua728 said:

For those of us that don’t go to the gym, would we be the best home workouts (either with dumbbells or no weights at all) to help our swing speeds. Asking for a friend 🙂 

 

Invest in a pair of adjustable dumbbells and the Fit for Golf app - cant recommend them enough.

[Jlocke22]

2 hours ago, dcmidnight said:

 

I finished Heavy Hitter this week and was not a huge fan of it. It increased my speed but I did not like it as much as other programs. A majority of the sessions were just 4 sets with a warm up, then a couple of 240 sets and finishing with 165. I would not do it again. On the check in session my driver SS at the range has gone from 108 to 112 since I started.

 

Last year I basically did this for the most part. But this year I mixed in a lot more light dumbbell/kettlebell work along with 4-5 days a week of half hour Peloton rides.

 

Not to sound like a broken record but I think Stack - or any speed training - is absolutely better than doing nothing in the offseason. 

4 mph is nothing to scoff at! Nice work, getting close to that 170 ball speed mark! 
 

I have never did heavy hitter, maybe because I stink more at lighter weights haha

[KC4441]

2 hours ago, dcmidnight said:

 

I finished Heavy Hitter this week and was not a huge fan of it. It increased my speed but I did not like it as much as other programs. A majority of the sessions were just 4 sets with a warm up, then a couple of 240 sets and finishing with 165. I would not do it again. On the check in session my driver SS at the range has gone from 108 to 112 since I started.

 

Last year I basically did this for the most part. But this year I mixed in a lot more light dumbbell/kettlebell work along with 4-5 days a week of half hour Peloton rides.

 

Not to sound like a broken record but I think Stack - or any speed training - is absolutely better than doing nothing in the offseason. 

Yea I have to stay in good shape for work, so it’s a balance between getting stronger, yet staying flexible enough.  I started back on Creatine for the first time in awhile and was definitely getting stronger, but also tighter.  Did some better stretching/mobility stuff along with stack and it seems to be a good balance.  Not doing to bad for a 45 year old..

[Rasser75]

7 hours ago, harpua728 said:

For those of us that don’t go to the gym, would we be the best home workouts (either with dumbbells or no weights at all) to help our swing speeds. Asking for a friend 🙂 

best to use weights. As minimum do some with body weight only. Talking from experience!

Edited February 22 by Rasser75

[harpua728]

2 hours ago, Rasser75 said:

best to use weights. As minimum do some with body weight only. Talking from experience!

But which exercises specifically would help the most?

[Elee913]

Apologies if this has already been answered.  But I’m nearing the end of Foundations.  Had a back injury in the middle (not related to Stack) which slowed me down.  But feeling better now.  

 

My espeed is in the 103-104 territory.  When I test driver speed without balls, I’m in the 101 area, so close to espeed.  But my driver with ball speed (measured on a GC3 and PRGR) is closer to 93-95 mph (which is close to my 195g stack speeds).  Does this make sense?  I would have thought my driver with ball would be somewhere closer to the 97-98 mph territory.  As a side note, I do think my GC3 is measuring things slower than other devices (my speeds on GC Hawks are definitely higher).  

 

Are there Stack drills that help narrow the gap between espeed and driver with ball?  Will emailing Sasho help?  

 

Here are my stats.  I do think my driving has gotten better (although tailed off post injury).  

 

 

[Rasser75]

7 hours ago, harpua728 said:

But which exercises specifically would help the most?

You need to hit three areas:

 

Lowerbody

Core

Upper body

 

Look for exercises that target those areas. Best to check in with a physio to help build you a programme. Money well spend.

[Jlocke22]

8 hours ago, Elee913 said:

Apologies if this has already been answered.  But I’m nearing the end of Foundations.  Had a back injury in the middle (not related to Stack) which slowed me down.  But feeling better now.  

 

My espeed is in the 103-104 territory.  When I test driver speed without balls, I’m in the 101 area, so close to espeed.  But my driver with ball speed (measured on a GC3 and PRGR) is closer to 93-95 mph (which is close to my 195g stack speeds).  Does this make sense?  I would have thought my driver with ball would be somewhere closer to the 97-98 mph territory.  As a side note, I do think my GC3 is measuring things slower than other devices (my speeds on GC Hawks are definitely higher).  

 

Are there Stack drills that help narrow the gap between espeed and driver with ball?  Will emailing Sasho help?  

 

Here are my stats.  I do think my driving has gotten better (although tailed off post injury).  

 

 

 

Are we talking cruising speed on course or letting it rip trying to hit the highest number possible on the ball?

 

If it's cruising speed, I would say that is a normal range. If maxing out, I would say it should/could be closer but takes a bit of time and practice as you get more programs under your belt. You could add in some "special sessions" that include on-ball training or add your own. It really is a skill of its own that you will get better at with practice and boost your cruising speed floor. Just like the Stack or anything else drill related your body/mind start to get better the more you do it at higher speeds and will adapt and start to remove that mental rev limiter when there is a ball. 

 

Some have had success with smashing foam balls at first, some headcovers/towels, some just ripping at more golf balls after sessions/on the range. 

 

 

 

[Rasser75]

11 minutes ago, Jlocke22 said:

Some have had success with smashing foam balls at first, some headcovers/towels, some just ripping at more golf balls after sessions/on the range. 

 

 

 

Smashing head covers. How does that work? Wont you wreck the driver?

 

Asking as I have a similar gap that I try to close. At some point, the gap was 18 MPH between my CHS with ball and espeed on stack…..

[stryper]

8 hours ago, Rasser75 said:

You need to hit three areas:

 

Lowerbody

Core

Upper body.

Yep, that about covers it. 👍

[jas0nmacisaac]

Really happy with the 195 set, I would like a full 122 or better set before the end of this program which would be 133 ESpeed.

 

The new radar was worth the 190 Canadian. Absolutely love that is registers in m/s and is down to the decimal.

[harpua728]

 

getting discouraged by my latest heavy hitter results 

[Jlocke22]

6 hours ago, Rasser75 said:

Smashing head covers. How does that work? Wont you wreck the driver?

 

Asking as I have a similar gap that I try to close. At some point, the gap was 18 MPH between my CHS with ball and espeed on stack…..

It's programmed in the Stack System Borgmeier program as parts of sessions. I have seen others use a towel. I just smash golf balls/foam balls if working on a feel at max speed. You can see it in the video library under Borgmeier and "bridging" 

[Elee913]

On 12/7/2023 at 10:18 PM, iacas said:

 

People will swing harder with a golf ball than an AlmostGolf ball somewhat often. The golf ball knocks a LOT of speed out of the system. If people are unsure of whether they can brake/control the club on the follow-through, they'll swing a bit slower.

Does Sasho talk at all about how much speed is lost by the impact with the ball? 

 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Elee913 said:

Does Sasho talk at all about how much speed is lost by the impact with the ball? 

 

Yes. Something like 20 MPH with the driver, IIRC. It's in his video where he talks about why he doesn't need to do non-dominant swings.

 

[jas0nmacisaac]

Has anyone done workouts both indoors and outside with spikes? Just wondering how much extra juice to expect when you can really grip the ground. My feet are generating too much torque on the gym floor now.

[stryper]

3 hours ago, iacas said:

 

Yes. Something like 20 MPH with the driver, IIRC. It's in his video where he talks about why he doesn't need to do non-dominant swings.

 

That's an interesting point.  On the simulators that I have access to I've noticed a punishing amount of distance lost any time I hit the ball even a little bit fat.  I would not have thought 20MPH, but I guess hitting the mat first does basically the same thing, as that would account for the difference in distance that I see. 

[chinaski]

On 2/23/2024 at 12:48 PM, harpua728 said:

 

getting discouraged by my latest heavy hitter results 

 

 

I am only halfway through my 1st foundations, but I haven't really seen any gains at all. Both on the monitor and on course. I have always gone after it close to 100% so maybe this isn't for me. I'll keep going, but starting to look like a waste of money and time. 

 

Also note the intent. It starts you off without any max swings, but adds them a few weeks in. If you don't select anything for intent it will lead you to believe that is an actual gain. Select intent for full for the most accurate readings.

 

 

Edited February 28 by chinaski

[Rasser75]

3 hours ago, chinaski said:

 

 

I am only halfway through my 1st foundations, but I haven't really seen any gains at all. Both on the monitor and on course. I have always gone after it close to 100% so maybe this isn't for me. I'll keep going, but starting to look like a waste of money and time. 

 

Also note the intent. It starts you off without any max swings, but adds them a few weeks in. If you don't select anything for intent it will lead you to believe that is an actual gain. Select intent for full for the most accurate readings.

 

 

This is a long game. Your swing might be efficient already. Thus you might not see these short gains that people post here and spammed on Twitter feeds. Majority of people clean up their swing when they start and grab some early gains. But from there it’s a marathon not a sprint.
 

You need to set goals 1-2 years ahead.

 

year 1: gains 4-6 MPh

year 2: gains 3-4 MPh

Year 3: gains ….

 

[chinaski]

9 hours ago, Rasser75 said:

This is a long game. Your swing might be efficient already. Thus you might not see these short gains that people post here and spammed on Twitter feeds. Majority of people clean up their swing when they start and grab some early gains. But from there it’s a marathon not a sprint.
 

You need to set goals 1-2 years ahead.

 

year 1: gains 4-6 MPh

year 2: gains 3-4 MPh

Year 3: gains ….

 

 

Yikes. I am 46 now. So I do need to be proactive with age related distance. Spending more time in the gym now, but like everyone else with limited available time you need to set priorities. Makes me wonder if yoga or other specialized workout would be just as beneficial with greater rewards outside of golf. 

[dcmidnight]

My tagline at this point should be - this is better than doing nothing in the offseason. I started around the same age as you and its definitely a long game. Yes yoga helps and yes weights/cardio helps. I am currently doing a combination of the Fit for Golf app - which is a lot of adjustable dumbbells, kettlebells and bands - Peloton for cardio/yoga and Stack. Its ALL helpful especially as you get older.

 

I went back through my Google Photos archive just out of curiosity to look at some of my Trackman sessions.

 

Excuse the length of the post.

 

Two years ago (fall 2022) before I started getting in better shape, my swing speed was around the 104 range. I walked 40 rounds a year but really wasn't training outside of that, no lifting or cardio, nothing like that. So thats where I started.

 

After my Stack program last March (2023) my average was 108 and I thought that was the end of the road, I would have been excited with that. During my last Trackman session after I finished, my max all out driver swing was 116.2. But during the season last year (2023) I was consistently around 110. 

 

After a TM testing session last month (Jan 2024), my average was 111 and this week on the course I was between 110-112 in on course speed.

 

So in two years between a combination of this and general training I've gone from 104 to 110 - and I have a couple extra if I really wanted it. This year I'm going to keep doing stack during the season, probably the basic ones, just to keep up with it.

 

I would tell you that sure, you can probably increase swing speed just by getting in better shape but I really do think there is benefit to swing training especially in the offseason.