Praising the Wilson 8802

[bcstones]

1 hour ago, NRJyzr said:

 

My take, in a particular real world application for me...

 

I have a Golden Ram TW Custom putter.  Very much an 8802 analogue.  It's possibly a little differently shaped than the 8802, or the 8813 I also have, but it visually works for me.  Except, it's too light.  

 

Ram largely doesn't exist as a company, I'm not going to be able to find another version that happens to be heavier.  And, the other options I've got haven't suited me as visually.  The weight was the only aspect that wasn't working for me.  So I added a half dozen or so strips of lead tape to get the putter where I wanted it, and there we go.  🙂

 

YIKES! 6 strips of lead tape to the back of a flange putter!! Where did you put it? What does it looks like? 
just checked in garage at a small barrel of clubs - found a number of flanged putters...all feel heavy to me but the heaviest were a Walter Hagen Gentle Ben by Crenshaw & a solid brass (can't make out the maker - it might say Mann Golf Co) Orlando Fl Tijuana Brassie w/a sombrero logo (has plastic extension & needs grip), MacGregor Jack Nicklaus JN100, MacGregor Jack Nicklaus Muirfield, & Wilson original 600 forged w/George Low signature towards toe...

Then again, since I use a simple pure blade style putter....most of these putters feel heavy to me....
I don't understand using clubs for looks over how it plays (I thought those VAS irons played beautifully)
Anyway, if any of the ones I mentioned, interest you...let me know....

 

[NRJyzr]

12 minutes ago, bcstones said:

YIKES! 6 strips of lead tape to the back of a flange putter!! Where did you put it? What does it looks like? 
just checked in garage at a small barrel of clubs - found a number of flanged putters...all feel heavy to me but the heaviest were a Walter Hagen Gentle Ben by Crenshaw & a solid brass (can't make out the maker - it might say Mann Golf Co) Orlando Fl Tijuana Brassie w/a sombrero logo (has plastic extension & needs grip), MacGregor Jack Nicklaus JN100, MacGregor Jack Nicklaus Muirfield, & Wilson original 600 forged w/George Low signature towards toe...

Then again, since I use a simple pure blade style putter....most of these putters feel heavy to me....
I don't understand using clubs for looks over how it plays (I thought those VAS irons played beautifully)
Anyway, if any of the ones I mentioned, interest you...let me know....

 

 

Kind of you to offer.   🙂

 

But, I've got a Ram Zebra Wizard 610, Cleveland Designed By, Wilson Tour Special, 8813, Geo Low Wizard reproduction, Ram Wizard 600, Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, Yes Nicky, and we can add a Tad Moore Pro 1P, Maxfli TM2, Golfsmith Tour Cavity, Spalding TPM-3....

 

In other words...  I've got a few options.   LOL

 

[dave w]

I feel the very best 8802 you can get is one of the Scotty circle t Napa putters. They have the exact same shape and nickel face height as the 1963 dbap/ 8802 however the face face us completely flat. I have found from collecting the older Wilson's that it is a lottery with the faces being concaved and not uniformed at all. The tour Scotty's produce and unbelievably tight role with the magic feel when struck out of the middle and force you to learn how to truly putt

[weakputt]

Love the Ray Cook Blue Goose VIII.

Very much like the Cameron NAPA, in fact some would say it was designed by Scotty. 

[cold_war_era_golfer]

I don’t have any 8802s currently but I have a few 1950s Iron Masters which I think are what Arnie actually played instead of the designed by AP 8803 that goes for $$ I don’t think is worth shelling out.  
 

Also, I think I’d probably putt poorly with a real 8802.  As to I have the Old Master 8802 copy and I have this habit of hitting the ball off to the right.  Something about the offset makes me open the club face.  I don’t do than with the IM Iron Master but if it’s a IMG same thing. 
 

I think I’m too used a center shafted Bullseye at this point. 

[bcstones]

1 hour ago, weakputt said:

Love the Ray Cook Blue Goose VIII.

well....that's the business of golf - when you buy a company like Ray Cook, you get to use his history. That "Blue Goose VIII" IS NOT a design of Ray "Putter-Man" Cook...and if some history is correct, the company in CA that at some time back bought the whole kit-and-kabtol Cook business & name, that company did have a newbe designer, Scotty Cameron, who legend has it designed the original "Blue Goose"...
And I'm sure this will "ruffle" alot of 8802 backers - it's just a flanged putter, that been around over a century going back into the hickory shaft era...and it's the business of golf PR teams to make the every day golfer think if they buy the 8802, they'll putt like the Pros 🙃🤣...

[dave w]

Tiger woods has stated he uses an 8802 putter in practice to get the correct release feel for putting however what does he know

[tatertot]

6 hours ago, weakputt said:

Love the Ray Cook Blue Goose VIII.

Very much like the Cameron NAPA, in fact some would say it was designed by Scotty. 

I thought it was designed by Arnold Palmer?

[golferdude54]

4 hours ago, cold_war_era_golfer said:

Also, I think I’d probably putt poorly with a real 8802.  As to I have the Old Master 8802 copy and I have this habit of hitting the ball off to the right.  Something about the offset makes me open the club face.  

It’s more likely the CoG or sweet spot being towards the heel rather than the actual center of the face. Putts contacted on the toe gets twisted open and end up to the right like in your case.
 

Every 8802 model I have tested has had its sweet spot a quarter of an inch towards the heel away from the center; in fact Mickelson made note of his putter having this in a GolfWRX article this year and he had a tungsten plug in the toe to shift the CoG to the center.

[Stephen8802]

7 hours ago, bcstones said:

...And I'm sure this will "ruffle" alot of 8802 backers - it's just a flanged putter, that been around over a century going back into the hickory shaft era...and it's the business of golf PR teams to make the every day golfer think if they buy the 8802, they'll putt like the Pros 🙃🤣...

The 8802 was produced in 1964 and then Wilson replaced it with the 8813. (Look in Kaplan and Maltby...you won't see an 8802 again until the black versions). So, not only is it's reputation not built on Wilson PR, Wilson didn't even support the putter enough to keep making it. They started to make it again because so many pros were still playing it that it became the putter that everyone wanted and Wilson tried to cash in. It didn't work, they weren't able to make a decent 8802 again until the late '80s. I'm guessing your experience with the model is one of the later versions, not the one all the pros were using up to the 80s. If that is what you tried, they weren't anything special.

 

The difference isn't in the design, it's in the feel...the '64, it the DBAP that is exactly the same, just feels better. No one knows if it is the shaft or the metal, maybe both, but it is a sweet feeling putter. Wilson could never get it right again, and even by 1965, with a different metal and a different shaft, the 8813 doesn't feel the same. I have 7 or 8 Iron Masters, including two pyratone versions, multiple 8802s, multiple 8813s, a few Old Masters, and a Cleveland Designed by Crenshaw...so I have enough data points to have an informed opinion. The 1964 8802 is a special putter.

 

It isn't any more accurate than an Iron Master, but many of the Iron Masters I own have awful feel. Great roll and really accurate, but they feel like crap. I putt better with an 8813, especially the 345 model, and just as well with my satin Old Master. And if money were on the line, I'd take my Designed by Crenshaw over my '64. (I do have a 1964 Head Speed shaft in my Crenshshaw, so there is a little of that 8802 magic there as well).  And although I put with these flanged putters every day in my office, I take my Bobby Grace Fat Man or Scotty out on the course. All that being said, nothing ever made feels better than a 1964 8802.

 

I used to think the same way about Scottys as the way you think about 8802s. I've had 15 or so Pings over the years, including Ansers from the original design to the more modern takes. I always loudly proclaimed that I would never get sucked into the hype and shell out the money for a Scotty. Why pay that much for a copy when I already had the original. It's all hype I said, fashion and prestige taking over logic. I'm sure Tiger just uses it for the money, he could putt just as well with any of the Anser style putters, they are all the same. Then I picked one up in a lot I bought and was psyched, I had a sweet flip in my hands that I could pawn off on some sucker who needs to pay for prestige, then use that money to buy some players clubs. Just for kicks though, I thought I'd give it a roll or two and prove that all the putters in that style are the same. Well, it didn't take too many putts to realize I was wrong. It is better. It looks the same, and it didn't come first, but it is so much better than any other club I've had in that style, including the Pings.

 

Just because a putter isn't first doesn't mean it isn't different. And just because many putters look the same doesn't mean that they feel the same.

[ezgoer]

After being terrified of Napa style forever I now love them and a nondescript 80’s 8802 is my regular gamer. When I play full vintage I’ll throw in a Zing, Anser, 1a, Kushin and a few different IM’s. My first attempt at a Napa was an IM5 with a fair amount of offset and had 25 or less putts for 18 holes and with 11 on 2nd 9. Literally love at first sight. Lot of chipping and getting it up and down but still i suddenly was burying 6-12 plus footers without thinking about it. Then I tried the 8802 and liked it even more. Not sure if it sets up better or what but seems easier to strike the center more consistently for me. I used to putt with and still have a close to a 20 year old Scotty Pro Platinum that really does seem superior to any other Anser style putter to me anyways. I got it for basically a lunch from an old mechanic non golfer coworker that had it sitting on the floor in his work van. Was all beat up an honesty I didn’t care for it’s looks or setup initially but as soon as I tried it it was pretty evident it was special. Good thing cuz I’m too cheap to pay normal Scotty prices. Very faint milling on the face so much different than a modern and I swear it has more pop in the sweet spot than a newer Scotty. Doesn’t sound like an advantage and maybe it isn’t but it’s a special feeling that I really like. 
Last winter I stumbled down the rabbit hole of putting and watched a few Brad Faxon videos. He talked about releasing the club face and use to do all his practicing with a Bullseye. Talked about the importance of a non oversized grip and how your hands should wrap around it engulfing it fully. He also said after talking about putting with Tiger that he believes when he’s putting at his best he’s releasing the blade. Think Tiger more than Faxon basically doesn’t stop it from releasing instead of going square to square. Both of them marvel at Crenshaw’s stroke. Talk about the ultimate toe hang putter user. It’s very fun and easy to try different styles of putting and not stopping it from releasing seems extremely natural to me. I’m not a great putter bye any means but it was a pretty natural transition from square to square and oversized grips for me. Every mallet I ever had was face balanced so been meaning to try this stroke with one of those. Hell yeah a Scotty Napa is high on my want list but realistically unless I find one that’s been thrown up in a tree or in the pond they are way out of my ballpark cost wise. The newer milled 8802s interest me would like to hear others thoughts. Half the price of a Scotty but guessing I could have an original 8802 for cheaper price or better yet that’s the current dream to stumble upon an early 8802 or 8813. 

[sheepdawg]

The only one I can putt with is the 8813.

 

 

[ezgoer]

Nice putters, I have yet to try a 8813. At first was worried about no alignment marks on my 8802 but must force me to setup square. My preferred IM5 is an 80’s I believe remake and has the triangle or arrow on it. I do like the offset on your IM’s, I have a nice condition older one with no offset I haven’t tried yet cuz of the grip. Old leather and nice but just seems weird cuz it’s round. Is that a pyratone shafted IM?

Edited October 30, 2023 by ezgoer

[ezgoer]

Oh yeah that YONEX blade that Mickleson used is high on my want list along with a Jumbo Izaki Bridgestone that was modeled after a Wizard 600 I believe. Both those aren’t necessarily cheap or common. NRJyzr has a fine RAM Tour model, may be a Watson model, that I’m willing to bet could be had for a good price cuz unless you’re a RAM guy nobody’s gonna put high value on it. Not his exact putter from him but just saying search out that model for a good price. Didn’t Hogan have a beryllium Napa in the 80’s? That could be interesting. 

Edited October 30, 2023 by ezgoer

[bcstones]

@Stephen8802 @ezgoer @sheepdawg Thanks for all the input....like I was hoping to imply - it's less about the actual putter, then the feel of the putter....AND the time spent on learning the eccentricities of that putter. Once that happens, why change to anything else.
 

[bcstones]

27 minutes ago, ezgoer said:

Didn’t Hogan have a beryllium Napa in the 80’s

If he did, I might have it...I tended to pick up every Hogan club I could get my hands on when I helped Odell Trueblood in his shop...

 

came across this quote just now (while looking for that Hogan "napa" style) - "Napa" is just Scotty Cameron's name for the flanged blade style...btw one post on the bay thingie had a Hogan P113, a Hogan radial PS1 - both flanged, there were others, but the pics were so dark couldn't make out if hollow back (HB) or flangedl

Edited October 30, 2023 by bcstones

[sheepdawg]

52 minutes ago, ezgoer said:

Nice putters, I have yet to try a 8813. At first was worried about no alignment marks on my 8802 but must force me to setup square. My preferred IM5 is an 80’s I believe remake and has the triangle or arrow on it. I do like the offset on your IM’s, I have a nice condition older one with no offset I haven’t tried yet cuz of the grip. Old leather and nice but just seems weird cuz it’s round. Is that a pyratone shafted IM?

The one in the middle and the one to the right of it are both pyratone shafted. The middle one is almost pristine.

Edited October 30, 2023 by sheepdawg

[dave w]

I have owned many 1963 DBAP and 64 8802 putters. The UK made in Scotland 1963-1964 wilson DBAP and 8802 have the absolute best feel due to a thinner more flexible headspeed shaft with different step pattern that gives an even better feel

[mocokid]

Great blades everyone! I need to get one myself for practice, Anyone selling?

[SUITS]

On 10/31/2023 at 7:50 AM, mocokid said:

Great blades everyone! I need to get one myself for practice, Anyone selling?

I have an Arnold Palmer original with the fluted shaft and leather grip. Was hoping to find a left handed model of something heavy to trade it for .

 

needs a little TLC to remove the pits from the head but I cleaned and conditioned the leather grip. 

[bcstones]

On 10/31/2023 at 6:50 AM, mocokid said:

Great blades everyone! I need to get one myself for practice, Anyone selling?

pm me

[mocokid]

Just snagged this 8813 off ebay for a modest amount.  Non glare head, minor nicks, original grip and grip cap and head speed shaft.  I wrapped a Neumann wrap grip over the original for a thicker grip feel I like. A little  short.  Putts beautifully.   Anyone wrap grips out there for sale or tennis grips?

[jplroper]

  I'm glad to see this thread is still rolling along!

[ezgoer]

  If the newest $349 dollar milled 8802 interest’s you I’m thinking this is the link from the original to the current. These came out in 2010. Unsure how many are actually out there but it looks like they can be had for $75-100. Compared to an 80’s 8802. 

   511 grams total weight compared to 490 grams for the 8802. Both putters measure 34 inches long. Doesn’t sound like much but it’s significantly heavier in your hands in comparison to the older one. I’ve only played it on slow greens so far but I do like it. 

 
 For comparison few more putters

Scotty Cameron Pro Platinum 522g

Mac IM5 478g (80’s w orig grip)

PING Kushin 480g (70’s w orig grip)

 

  Measured swing weights for giggles and found some interesting things. 
Original untouched putters are generally D2-D3

The 2 I regripped are mid to low C swing weights. Grips I put on them you wouldn’t think would be heavy and not a lot of tape either. Those C swing weights are odd but guess the numbers don’t lie. 
  

If anyone has an original gripped 80’s 8802 post some numbers on overall weight and swing weight. Wondering how much I messed up my 8802. 

Edited November 20, 2023 by ezgoer

[ChiGolf224]

I found and picked up a MacGregor Nicklaus JN271 for $10 a few weeks ago. Threw a new pingman on it and took it out yesterday for the first time. One of my best putting rounds of the year, even on cold, wet Chicago winter greens

[hackinghokie]

I’ve really found a comfortable place with these 8802 style putters. Been using a Tad Moore Tour Classic this year that has been the perfect match. I borrowed this Macgregor from a friend’s dad as well over the summer and loved it. 

[ezgoer]

Welcome to the right style of putter. The Muirfield sure looks Wiz 600 style. I fell in love with a IMG 5 first and then discovered the perfection of an 8802. Still haven’t had a true 60’s 8802 in my hands yet but there’s something other than the no ferrule that separates an 8802 for me. Still like both but the 8802 does it for me. Seems a little flatter lie that could easily be the particle putter I’m using but Wilson’s sweet spot seems much more generous. I’m currently stuck on a much more modern (2010) 8882. Nice and heavy for a Napa style. I still need to experiment with a real or as close to a 600 as I can get though. 

Edited December 31, 2023 by ezgoer

[Fellaheen51]

5 hours ago, ezgoer said:

Welcome to the right style of putter. The Muirfield sure looks Wiz 600 style. I fell in love with a IMG 5 first and then discovered the perfection of an 8802. Still haven’t had a true 60’s 8802 in my hands yet but there’s something other than the no ferrule that separates an 8802 for me. Still like both but the 8802 does it for me. Seems a little flatter lie that could easily be the particle putter I’m using but Wilson’s sweet spot seems much more generous. I’m currently stuck on a much more modern (2010) 8882. Nice and heavy for a Napa style. I still need to experiment with a real or as close to a 600 as I can get though. 

 

FWIW.  Comparison photos between a Mac Muirfield and 600 style.  The Wilson is a little rough.  Unfortunately, don't putt all that well with heel shafted putters.  (More practice?)  Prefer the Mac between these two.  Has a nice leather grip on it.  

 

[@_the_crook]

question -

 

I'd like to build a new putter with a 8802 style, Arnold Palmer head. got one NOS all chrome.

wonder what a decent new shaft recommendation might be. thanks in advance.

 

Edited January 17 by @_the_crook
Pics

[tatertot]

13 minutes ago, @_the_crook said:

question -

 

I'd like to build a new putter with a 8802 style, Arnold Palmer head. got one NOS all chrome.

wonder what a decent new shaft recommendation might be. thanks in advance.

 

Gonna be kinda limited due to the over-the-hosel diameter needed for that head.