Animosity Towards the Rules

[sui generis]

9 minutes ago, jordan2240 said:

U.S. Amateur championship (I think that was the tourney), kid loses the last hole and subsequently the match because his caddie, a guy he didn't even know, touched the sand.  The rules should never have allowed that to happen.  Referees should have the ability to make a judgement call on whether a technical violation actually gave the golfer an advantage, and override the by-the-book ruling as appropriate. 

 

That hole of yours just keeps getting deeper and deeper. 🙄

[jordan2240]

7 minutes ago, sui generis said:

 

That hole of yours just keeps getting deeper and deeper. 🙄

So you keep saying.  Perhaps I should call Work-Day.

[Sawgrass]

16 minutes ago, jordan2240 said:

Referees should have the ability to make a judgement call on whether a technical violation actually gave the golfer an advantage, and override the by-the-book ruling as appropriate. 

 

A truly terrible idea. 
 

I can only imagine the animosity generated by such subjective calls. 

[Sawgrass]

19 minutes ago, jordan2240 said:

Duplicate 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Sawgrass

[Sawgrass]

22 minutes ago, jordan2240 said:

Duplicate 

 

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Sawgrass

[Hawkeye77]

@Sawgrass  Good effort, but I don't think he'll get it if you post it 10 times! 😉

 

 

 

 

Yes, I know how it can happen, lol.

[naval2006]

On 4/19/2021 at 9:51 PM, Fade said:

As with other things that are somewhat difficult , for example mathematics, the animosity towards the rules of golf is a coping mechanism employed by poor students.

Teacher, teacher, this question is wrong

[Warrior42111]

I haven't read through the entire post but I would say I don't have animosity to the rules them self, but to the idea it's the only way to play. If I'm in an event or counting a round to my HC then yep following them 100%. But if this is a casual round with friends just trying to get like 12 or more holes in after work ect. who cares.

[Sawgrass]

1 hour ago, jordan2240 said:

Frankly, I'd love for someone I play with to know the rules, but if you are simply playing recreationally, there's generally little reason to, for example,  spend the time needed to take out your driver and measure two appropriate club lengths from the 'penalty area' rather than just dropping your ball in the general area.  For the speed of the game on public courses anyway, it's better that the rules aren't followed to the letter.  

Not a great example.  You are not required to measure, just to do your best to drop in an appropriate place.  That can often be easily eyeballed, especially when you've got 2cls to deal with.  

[2bGood]

2 hours ago, jordan2240 said:

In the 2008 World Series, the Phillies lead game five through the sixth inning, when it was called because of rain.  By the rules, the game should have been over, but an exception was made to complete the game (which the Phillies still won, thankfully).  Rules are there to prevent players from having an unfair advantage, which is always subject to judgement.

You don't have all the details correct

1. World Series Games have different rules and it was determined before the game (as they knew rain was coming) that a shortened game would not be allowed to determine the result. Before the game both teams were informed the game would be suspended if the rain got too bad. This was not an exception, but fell under the rules of how the post season is operated for MLB. The rule you refer to is for the regular season and is not/was not a post season rule.

2. Philies did not 'lead the game through 6'. They lead 2-1 after the 5th inning. Tampa scored one run in the top of the 6th and the game was suspended tied at 2-2 before the Philies could bat.

3. As stipulated by the commissionaire, prior to the game, the game was suspended to be finished later.

 

The only interesting thing about the situation is the MLB has a rule that the commissionaire is responsible for 'Setting the Terms of the Competition' in the post season on how it is run. However the commissionaire can not change or modify existing rules. 

 

Funny thing golf has the same rule - giving the Committee the authority to for 'Setting the Terms of the Competition'. If you go to the PGA Tour you will find loads of times the committee determined the most fair way to determine the result of an event impacted by weather issues. 

 

I get the sense you are like the Bo Jackson of not knowing rules. 😁

Edited April 21, 2021 by 2bGood

[davep043]

19 minutes ago, 2bGood said:

I get the sense you are like the Bo Jackson of not knowing rules. 😁

Everyone is good at something!

[PoolPond]

compared to the rules of lacrosse, the rules of golf are a walk in the park

[jordan2240]

2 hours ago, 2bGood said:

You don't have all the details correct

1. World Series Games have different rules and it was determined before the game (as they knew rain was coming) that a shortened game would not be allowed to determine the result. Before the game both teams were informed the game would be suspended if the rain got too bad. This was not an exception, but fell under the rules of how the post season is operated for MLB. The rule you refer to is for the regular season and is not/was not a post season rule.

2. Philies did not 'lead the game through 6'. They lead 2-1 after the 5th inning. Tampa scored one run in the top of the 6th and the game was suspended tied at 2-2 before the Philies could bat.

3. As stipulated by the commissionaire, prior to the game, the game was suspended to be finished later.

 

The only interesting thing about the situation is the MLB has a rule that the commissionaire is responsible for 'Setting the Terms of the Competition' in the post season on how it is run. However the commissionaire can not change or modify existing rules. 

 

Funny thing golf has the same rule - giving the Committee the authority to for 'Setting the Terms of the Competition'. If you go to the PGA Tour you will find loads of times the committee determined the most fair way to determine the result of an event impacted by weather issues. 

 

I get the sense you are like the Bo Jackson of not knowing rules. 😁

Not hardly.  My geezer group was playing today, and I left a ball on the lip on my final putt.  One geezer thought you could wait five minutes for it to drop, another thought you could wait one minute, and the other had no idea.  I was well aware it was 10 seconds once you approached the ball (how long you have to do that, I have no idea).

 

Nonetheless, my final comment on this topic, the OP asked why there is so much animosity for the rules.  I suggest it's because players have been penalized for the examples I've already noted, which most recreational players and casual golf fans, at least the ones I've spoken to whenever such violations occurred, find ridiculous.  

Edited April 21, 2021 by jordan2240

[Hawkeye77]

8 minutes ago, jordan2240 said:

Not hardly.  My geezer group was playing today, and I left a ball on the lip on my final putt.  One geezer thought you could wait five minutes for it to drop, another thought you could wait one minute, and the other had no idea.  I was well aware it was 10 seconds once you approached the ball (how long you have to do that, I have no idea).

 

Nonetheless, my final comment on this topic, the OP asked why there is so much animosity for the rules.  I suggest it's because players have been penalized for the examples I've already noted, which most recreational players and casual golf fans, at least the ones I've spoken to whenever such violations occurred, find ridiculous.  

5 minutes, lol - not buying that one.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Hawkeye77

[smashdn]

On 4/20/2021 at 9:22 AM, jholz said:

This is a highly intriguing question/topic, and one that I think resonates through so much of our society today. Questioning the ROG and the institutions that uphold those rules is not that much different from the questioning of other large institutions/bureaucracies that is going on these days. And much of that questioning comes in the form of "annoyance" or animosity. 

 

People look at the ROG and say why? Why does it have to be this way?

 

The simple answer is always "because."

 

That "because" represents the amalgamated knowledge and experience the institution has gained over the past hundred or so odd years, trying to do the best job they can. More often than not, the "solutions" offered by critics are things that have already been suggested, fully explored, and found to be lacking. 

 

I'm not saying that we should blindly trust institutions, nor that we should never question them. But, more often than not, the problems we are complaining about are much larger and more complex than people realize and no perfect solution exists. 

 

This is the messy, complicated world we live in.  

 

Makes sense the way you have posited that.

 

But questioning why you can't just move your ball when you want is akin to asking why is it 3 strikes and 4 balls in baseball.  Those are what the rules of the game are.  They just are.  You can "play" around however you wish, but you aren't playing Golf, capital letter golf.

 

Sort of like, is a scramble with skirts and mulligans and tosses and what-not golf or Golf?  

 

Maybe that is it.  Most people can't separate what they do on Saturday (thinking it is Golf) from what is being undertaken on the PGA Tour, which certainly is Golf. 

[Tupperwolf]

54 minutes ago, jordan2240 said:

Not hardly.  My geezer group was playing today, and I left a ball on the lip on my final putt.  One geezer thought you could wait five minutes for it to drop, another thought you could wait one minute, and the other had no idea.  I was well aware it was 10 seconds once you approached the ball (how long you have to do that, I have no idea).

You have a reasonable amount of time to approach your ball, and 10 seconds after that to wait and see if it falls.

[smashdn]

6 hours ago, jordan2240 said:

Frankly, I'd love for someone I play with to know the rules, but if you are simply playing recreationally, there's generally little reason to, for example,  spend the time needed to take out your driver and measure two appropriate club lengths from the 'penalty area' rather than just dropping your ball in the general area.  For the speed of the game on public courses anyway, it's better that the rules aren't followed to the letter.  

 

That makes sense.  But also might be where some of what I termed animosity comes from.  The "jeez, we just move the pine cone and if the ball moves we put it back and live life," breeds "The Rules kept Billy from moving his ball.  The Rules are dumb."

[Mr. Bean]

6 hours ago, Warrior42111 said:

I haven't read through the entire post but I would say I don't have animosity to the rules them self, but to the idea it's the only way to play. If I'm in an event or counting a round to my HC then yep following them 100%. But if this is a casual round with friends just trying to get like 12 or more holes in after work ect. who cares.

 

Nobody forces you to play by the Rules, it is your own choice. Casual rounds are just that, casual. Play as you wish as long as you do not damage the course, disturb other players and physically hurt nobody.

[jordan2240]

2 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

5 minutes, lol - not buying that one.

Buy it or not, that's what he said.  Guess you can't really judge a person by a conversation on an internet forum, now can you. (Sorry, had to respond to this one as I see it as an attack on my character, and no one on here knows anything about anyone else's character, unless you know the person personally).

[Mr. Bean]

2 hours ago, jordan2240 said:

Nonetheless, my final comment on this topic, the OP asked why there is so much animosity for the rules.  I suggest it's because players have been penalized for the examples I've already noted, which most recreational players and casual golf fans, at least the ones I've spoken to whenever such violations occurred, find ridiculous.  

 

Why would a person who does not play by the Rules anyway find any of the Rules he is not playing by ridiculous? Makes absolutely no sense but falls in the same category with most of your posts.

[jordan2240]

2 hours ago, Tupperwolf said:

You have a reasonable amount of time to approach your ball, and 10 seconds after that to wait and see if it falls.

The guy who thought you had 5 minutes suggested you feign a cramp and a fall as you approach your ball.  I'm wondering if its been done.

[jordan2240]

1 minute ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Why would a person who does not play by the Rules anyway find any of the Rules he is not playing by ridiculous? Makes absolutely no sense but falls in the same category with most of your posts.

I already noted I play by every rule I am aware of - probably more so than you do.   I'm the last person you want to challenge about playing by the rules, but I'm not gonna stand around on the  course consulting my pocket rule book in a recreational game.  

[ctmason_98]

I have to echo the earlier comment from Page 1. I don't see the talk about rules of golf one iota different than fans bitching about rules in any other sport, especially pro sports. It's the same. 

[Sawgrass]

54 minutes ago, jordan2240 said:

Buy it or not, that's what he said.  Guess you can't really judge a person by a conversation on an internet forum, now can you. (Sorry, had to respond to this one as I see it as an attack on my character, and no one on here knows anything about anyone else's character, unless you know the person personally).

I believe that what you choose to write on an Internet forum frequently says loads about your character. 

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, jordan2240 said:

I already noted I play by every rule I am aware of - probably more so than you do.   I'm the last person you want to challenge about playing by the rules, but I'm not gonna stand around on the  course consulting my pocket rule book in a recreational game.  

 

How come I get the feeling that you do not either read the posts of others properly or you just have problems in understanding written language...? I even tried to highlight the issue by bolding that part of the text YOU wrote that was essential. Obviously in vain.

 

Keep digging.... fella.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Mr. Bean

[Sawgrass]

Gotta start a new thread, “Amnesty towards the Rules.”

[oikos1]

4 hours ago, smashdn said:

 

Makes sense the way you have posited that.

 

But questioning why you can't just move your ball when you want is akin to asking why is it 3 strikes and 4 balls in baseball.  Those are what the rules of the game are.  They just are.  You can "play" around however you wish, but you aren't playing Golf, capital letter golf.

 

Sort of like, is a scramble with skirts and mulligans and tosses and what-not golf or Golf?  

 

Maybe that is it.  Most people can't separate what they do on Saturday (thinking it is Golf) from what is being undertaken on the PGA Tour, which certainly is Golf. 

Lol.  If we follow that logic, than any handicapper taking strokes they feel entitled to is playing "golf", not PGA Tour Golf.

[Hawkeye77]

4 hours ago, jordan2240 said:

The guy who thought you had 5 minutes suggested you feign a cramp and a fall as you approach your ball.  I'm wondering if its been done.

 

LOL, do the rules have a definition for "final comment"?  I've apparently had it wrong all these years.

[sui generis]

11 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

LOL, do the rules have a definition for "final comment"?  I've apparently had it wrong all these years.

 

He's also the Bo Jackson of hole digging. 🙄

[jholz]

20 hours ago, smashdn said:

 

Makes sense the way you have posited that.

 

But questioning why you can't just move your ball when you want is akin to asking why is it 3 strikes and 4 balls in baseball.  Those are what the rules of the game are.  They just are.  You can "play" around however you wish, but you aren't playing Golf, capital letter golf.

 

Sort of like, is a scramble with skirts and mulligans and tosses and what-not golf or Golf?  

 

Maybe that is it.  Most people can't separate what they do on Saturday (thinking it is Golf) from what is being undertaken on the PGA Tour, which certainly is Golf. 

 

Yes, I certainly agree with you. I would theorize that the predominant reason the "amateur golfer" has a problem with the rules is because playing by the rules exposes how much one truly sucks at this game. They think they are better than they are, and can't reconcile reality with that conception. 

 

Just as an example, I heard a bunch of clowns at the range, not too long ago, earnestly discussing - at length - that the biggest hurdle to becoming a touring pro was being able to walk 18 holes of golf because pros don't use golf carts. I s*** you not. How does one deal with ignorance of that scope and depth?

 

Now, everyone is not that clueless, of course, but it is indicative of the lack of understanding that most amateur golfers possess.

 

The predominant argument that I hear in these "rules complaints" tends to be "the rules are unfair" or "touring pros have this or that advantage" or whatever such nonsense.

 

Ultimately what they are saying is: "I'm a much better golfer than my score indicates. I can't reconcile that score with my own inflated sense of how good I am at golf. Therefore, if it wasn't for those damn rules, I would be scoring better and my true level of skill would be shown."