Favorite Epoxy?

[mvhoffman]

25 minutes ago, Nessism said:

 

When I was in college, the muffler on my motorcycle rusted through, developing a sizeable hole.  Being a poor student, I couldn't afford a new muffler, so I mixed up a batch of JB Weld and slathered it over the rusted out areas, creating a patch.  Worked a treat!  That JBW stuff tolerates high heat amazingly well.  Hopefully, nobody sells golf clubs glued together with that stuff, though, because you might cook the shaft before it releases the head.

I normally use JB weld for putters lol

[Phabs]

4 hours ago, rbpwrx said:

 

+1

I was skeptical, but this stuff works SO much better than any of the dedicated 'golf' epoxies I've used over the years. It also FEELS better. Somehow, more solid, a little heavier, with a very pleasing 'welded' sensation through the ball.

Plus, it's cheap and ubiquitously available.

I will never use anything else.

Epoxy changed the feel of your clubs huh?  That's a new one. 

[Stuart_G]

Actually JB Weld's KwikWeld looks like it might be suitable for golf.  

 

Max temp: 250*  (may not be exactly the same as the Tc - so hard to tell for sure)

Strength: 3125 PSI

 

Probably not all that different than most other short cure epoxies - maybe a bit better strength.

[rbpwrx]

23 minutes ago, Phabs said:

Epoxy changed the feel of your clubs huh?  That's a new one. 

 

Absolutely! The connection between shaft and club is arguably one of the most important 'feel points' in club building. Similar to guitar-building (I'm an instrument maker), different glues have markedly different musical properties. And the most sensitive musicians perceive the difference immediately. YMMV.

[rbpwrx]

4 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

Actually JB Weld's KwikWeld looks like it might be suitable for golf.  

 

Max temp: 250*  (may not be exactly the same as the Tc - so hard to tell for sure)

Strength: 3125 PSI

 

Probably not all that different than most other short cure epoxies - maybe a bit better strength.

 

Cool. I was happy to wait the 24 hrs for the steel-reinforced JB to cure. Good to know there's an 'instant' option!

 

[RentDeezy12]

2 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

Actually JB Weld's KwikWeld looks like it might be suitable for golf.  

 

Max temp: 250*  (may not be exactly the same as the Tc - so hard to tell for sure)

Strength: 3125 PSI

 

Probably not all that different than most other short cure epoxies - maybe a bit better strength.

Can confirm. The KwikWeld is like a budget version of the 3M 810(personal favorite). 
I’ve done a full set of wedges and irons with the KwikWeld with zero issues. Fast curing time and great strength. I’ve removed the wedge heads to swap and it was standard no excess head needed to break the bond. If you’re in need of something in a pinch the KwikWeld with some Quick center is a great combination. 

[maximusppl]

The Brampton 24hr cure one with 2 tubes that distributes the correct proportions each time. I used one with the gun and one you press with the hands manually and both are great. 

[Stuart_G]

12 hours ago, RentDeezy12 said:

Can confirm. The KwikWeld is like a budget version of the 3M 810(personal favorite). 
I’ve done a full set of wedges and irons with the KwikWeld with zero issues. Fast curing time and great strength. I’ve removed the wedge heads to swap and it was standard no excess head needed to break the bond. If you’re in need of something in a pinch the KwikWeld with some Quick center is a great combination. 

 

Thanks for the confirmation - although I might have to disagree about the "Quick center" part 😉

 

[mvhoffman]

2 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Thanks for the confirmation - although I might have to disagree about the "Quick center" part 😉

 

ive done a few wedges and some trial long irons with the JB quick and definitely doesn't have an impossible heat point.  I don't know if I'd use the 24* JB weld, but the quick weld is essentially the same as the quick epoxy the tour trucks use.  There were some talkings for a long time that the "made for" epoxy for the Ping tour truck was once JB Weld.  I know everyone seems to have switched to the 3M scotch weld  variations but a long time used JB Weld definitely has a part in this conversation.

[RobS]

21 minutes ago, mvhoffman said:

ive done a few wedges and some trial long irons with the JB quick and definitely doesn't have an impossible heat point.  I don't know if I'd use the 24* JB weld, but the quick weld is essentially the same as the quick epoxy the tour trucks use.  There were some talkings for a long time that the "made for" epoxy for the Ping tour truck was once JB Weld.  I know everyone seems to have switched to the 3M scotch weld  variations but a long time used JB Weld definitely has a part in this conversation.

Ping used Loctite 10c EPKC in the factory and on the truck prior to switch to 3M DP810.  10C EPKC looks similar to the JB with it's grey mixed color and yellow tube.

[Nessism]

19 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

Actually JB Weld's KwikWeld looks like it might be suitable for golf.  

 

Max temp: 250*  (may not be exactly the same as the Tc - so hard to tell for sure)

Strength: 3125 PSI

 

Probably not all that different than most other short cure epoxies - maybe a bit better strength.

 

That 3125 is tensile strength.  Lap shear will be a fair bit lower.  No idea about its brittleness either.   Maybe fine, but I'll stick with known materials.

[Nessism]

1 hour ago, mvhoffman said:

ive done a few wedges and some trial long irons with the JB quick and definitely doesn't have an impossible heat point.  I don't know if I'd use the 24* JB weld, but the quick weld is essentially the same as the quick epoxy the tour trucks use.  There were some talkings for a long time that the "made for" epoxy for the Ping tour truck was once JB Weld.  I know everyone seems to have switched to the 3M scotch weld  variations but a long time used JB Weld definitely has a part in this conversation.

 

No freaking way Ping is or was using JB Weld.  

[Nessism]

16 hours ago, RentDeezy12 said:

Can confirm. The KwikWeld is like a budget version of the 3M 810(personal favorite). 

 

DP810 is an acrylic adhesive, Kwickweld is epoxy.  

[Fraserdave45]

3M DP810NS. Best I've ever used in over 25 years.

[RentDeezy12]

12 minutes ago, Nessism said:

 

DP810 is an acrylic adhesive, Kwickweld is epoxy.  

I’m aware. Is it relevant to the topic? I will start a new thread asking members what their favorite Acrylic Adhesive is in order to clear any confusion. I was comparing the two based on cure time, strength, and ease of use/removal. 

[Nessism]

37 minutes ago, RentDeezy12 said:

I’m aware. Is it relevant to the topic? I will start a new thread asking members what their favorite Acrylic Adhesive is in order to clear any confusion. I was comparing the two based on cure time, strength, and ease of use/removal. 

Comparing Kwickweld to DP810, is like comparing Bud Lite to Stone IPA! 😝

[Phabs]

8 hours ago, Fraserdave45 said:

3M DP810NS. Best I've ever used in over 25 years.

Agreed - best money I've spend since I started building my own stuff.  

[PresTex]

Used Kwikweld on quite a few different builds. That stuff cures quickly and is strong as hell. Takes a little more heat than say the Brampton epoxy but no issues getting heads off. I use Devcon 2 ton epoxy for most of my clubs now and im very happy with it. Have not used the 3M DP810 because its hard to justify the added cost when other epoxies work so well.

[Nessism]

2 hours ago, PresTex said:

Used Kwikweld on quite a few different builds. That stuff cures quickly and is strong as hell. Takes a little more heat than say the Brampton epoxy but no issues getting heads off. I use Devcon 2 ton epoxy for most of my clubs now and im very happy with it. Have not used the 3M DP810 because its hard to justify the added cost when other epoxies work so well.

 

3M DP8410NS is $16.69 shipped on Amazon.  A cartridge will build at least four sets of irons, so basically $4/set.  ONE ProV1 costs that much.  

[AzRoger]

Don't see much of a price difference between 3M and JP Weld when you look at the volume cost, 3M does require the one-time purchase of a dispenser gun. Many of us, including myself, are casual club builders and lucky to put together one set a year. The benefit to me with JP Weld, besides that it works well, is the long shelf life, minimum of 3 years but usually much longer.

Edited May 17, 2023 by AzRoger

[PresTex]

2 hours ago, Nessism said:

 

3M DP8410NS is $16.69 shipped on Amazon.  A cartridge will build at least four sets of irons, so basically $4/set.  ONE ProV1 costs that much.  

I must have been looking at the larger size as I saw ~$40. Regardless, both the Devcon and Kwikweld have served me well and are readily accessible at my local hardware store. Ill probably pick up some 8410 to try for the next set to compare though.

[Stuart_G]

20 hours ago, Nessism said:

 

That 3125 is tensile strength.  Lap shear will be a fair bit lower. 

 

Probably - but lap shear strength isn't really a big concern and highly over rated when selecting epoxy (IMO).   I'd bet that the vast majority of failures come down to surface prep,  fit, mixing, or even curing error by the user - not insufficient strength of the epoxy.

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by Stuart_G

[Nessism]

4 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Probably - but lap shear strength isn't really a big concern and highly over rated when selecting epoxy (IMO).   I'd bet that the vast majority of failures come down to surface prep,  fit, mixing, or even curing error by the user - not insufficient strength of the epoxy.

 

 

In my years here in this forum, I've read hundreds, if not thousands, of posts from people describing their, less than ideal, build methods.  The stronger the epoxy the better, as far as I'm concern, because it increases fault tolerance. 

 

If someone was building a set of Mizuno's, with 1.25" of insertion depth, and the shaft fits nicely, not too tight, not too loose, and the builder knew how to properly prep both the hosel and shaft, then I'd say that just about any epoxy would work.  With Ping's however, where there is a crazy amount of shaft to hosel clearance, 1" insertion depth and a plastic collar ferrule reducing bonding area, a strong epoxy is mandatory. 

 

Another thing, people often sell the clubs they build and as such, they should be building with the next user in mind, for safety's sake.  

[Stuart_G]

9 minutes ago, Nessism said:

 

In my years here in this forum, I've read hundreds, if not thousands, of posts from people describing their, less than ideal, build methods.  The stronger the epoxy the better, as far as I'm concern, because it increases fault tolerance. 

 

It's possible I suppose - but I'm not fully convinced that it is all that significant in making up for poor usage.  Particularly in the case of either contamination of the surfaces or insufficient prep of the surfaces.

 

I suspect some formulations are more tolerant of mixing ratios being less than perfect than others - but I doubt that has any relationship to the strength.

 

 

9 minutes ago, Nessism said:

With Ping's however, where there is a crazy amount of shaft to hosel clearance, 1" insertion depth and a plastic collar ferrule reducing bonding area, a strong epoxy is mandatory. 

 

Yes, strength might be able to compensate when there is a need for a thicker layer between the shaft and hosel (like Ping) but then so can proper shimming.

 

If people really want to keep future users in mind and the safety of the users - they should be focusing on the methodology and not try to use the strength as a crutch.

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by Stuart_G

[Nessism]

54 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Yes, strength might be able to compensate when there is a need for a thicker layer between the shaft and hosel (like Ping) but then so can proper shimming.

 

If people really want to keep future users in mind and the safety of the users - they should be focusing on the methodology and not try to use the strength as a crutch.

 

 

As far as I'm concerned, both methodology and materials matter.  Buy an industrial grade epoxy like 3M or Loctite-Hysol, and you get a proper data sheet that defines the material's physical properties, as tested using ASTM, or similar, methods.  OEM's like Ping use 3M adhesives.  If I'm building a set of clubs, I'm not using an inferior adhesive than what the clubs were originally built with.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by Nessism

[Mike412]

Putting some time into selecting the best epoxy so I’ve been reading through this thread and others while putting together a list of 3M products mentioned here and elsewhere.

 

The shelf life on the 810 products are really short, the data sheets only gives 15 months refrigerated and I would assume it’s significantly shorter at room temp. The others state 24 months at room temp while the 8410 isn’t clear if 24 months is refrigerated or room temp. I’ll add that I don’t really see the point of either 810 product, it just seems like there are multiple better options so I’m not sure how that one became so popular.

 

One other interesting note is the 8410NS has glass beads already mixed in in order to maintain bond line thickness.

 

I’ve attached a pdf of this list with clickable links to the technical data sheets for each product.

EDIT: Added GolfWorks and Loctite brands, as well as some more info. GolfWorks doesn’t give much info and some of what they do give is contradictory so it is as accurate as I could manage reading through descriptions and answered questions.

 

Also updated the PDF for the ones that want the links and added an Excel file for those who are interested in that. (It was created in Google Sheets so may be a little wonky in excel).

 

The Excel file won’t look right by just clicking “view”. It will have to be opened in Excel and even then the Photo Logos will be off.

If you don’t want to edit anything the pdf is the best one to use.

 

 

Shafting Epoxy excel.xlsx Shafting Epoxy - Sheet1.pdf

Edited January 9 by Mike412
Updates

[Mike412]

I’ve updated the above post to include GolfWorks and Loctite brands. GolfWorks doesn’t provide much info so the values are just based off of what I could glean from descriptions and Q&A on the site, some of it was contradictory but I tried to denote the unsureties with a “?”.

 

I discovered the Loctite brand stuff through a recommendation from @third-times-a-charm. I honestly didn’t know they made industrial strength structural adhesives. It looks like a great option for an off-white epoxy and seems to be better than the off-white options from 3M, so thank you for that! Henkel didn’t show a shear at ~180°F so I manually took some chart measurements to get what I feel are pretty accurate values, I can post some pictures of my work if anyone would like to verify (wouldn’t bother me at all).

 

Also if anyone has access to the Breakdown temps for 3M let me know and I’ll update them.

 

Edited January 9 by Mike412

[st1800e]

@Mike412

nice work on the reference charts.  I see a Golfworks Acrylic is listed but I can’t find it on their website.  Can you point me to it? Thx.  

[Mike412]

23 minutes ago, st1800e said:

@Mike412

nice work on the reference charts.  I see a Golfworks Acrylic is listed but I can’t find it on their website.  Can you point me to it? Thx.  

Which one are you referring to? How do I have it listed in the left column?

[st1800e]

14 minutes ago, Mike412 said:

Which one are you referring to? How do I have it listed in the left column?