Garmin Approach R10 Portable Golf Launch Monitor

[Indygolf21]

14 minutes ago, Cactus Jack said:

I’m confused.
 

If you hit the ball left and the R10 says right, even some of the time, in its current state how is this useful for either practice or sim? Throw in MGS saying spin and other metrics are basically unusable, which others have corroborated, all the alignment challenges, FOV etc how can folks trust the device?
 

I’m genuinely curious and not trying to bash the product, but I’m clearly missing a beat. 

My thoughts exactly. 

[Dwchung6]

I expected accurate club data from R10 because that is what Garmin advertised. My expectation certainly depended upon the price range of R10 relative to other products and my ability to align it properly but these are secondary issues and cannot be used as an "excuse" for the poor quality of R10 that does not meet the level of accuracy Garmin claims in their ad.  If the device cannot give us the accurate club data that Garmin claims it does, then simply it is a matter of false advertising and Garmin needs to correct that.

[jeg208]

1 minute ago, Dwchung6 said:

I expected accurate club data from R10 because that is what Garmin advertised. My expectation certainly depended upon the price range of R10 relative to other products and my ability to align it properly but these are secondary issues and cannot be used as an "excuse" for the poor quality of R10 that does not meet the level of accuracy Garmin claims in their ad.  If the device cannot give us the accurate club data that Garmin claims it does, then simply it is a matter of false advertising and Garmin needs to correct that.

 

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/695391#specs

 

Now, there might have been an official Garmin ad I am not aware of, but there isn't any false claims on the current website.  Pre release ads might be out there with false information, but they could be 3rd party hype train or an over excited engineer didn't do a great job conveying reality to the marketing team.

[Cactus Jack]

1 hour ago, jeg208 said:

I tied a piece of string to the center of my net.  I pull it tight, and align the r10 to it.  I don't look at every single shot shape as I can feel it anyways, but for me it has been pretty accurate for shot shape.  I think people who were expecting accurate spin and club data for $600 should get their head checked out.

 

EDIT:  Perhaps that is a little harsh, but I really don't understand what people were expecting.  This was never going to be a $600 GC2.  Check out the stats that they list accuracy for here https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/695391#specs.  The only one that they are failing to deliver on IMO is club speed and maybe an issue with launch angle with longer irons+.  Everything else is just features to push it past the SC300i, Mevo, and Rhapsodo.  Perfect?  No way.  Will some of these stats get better?  Probably.  Will you ever be able to adjust your angle of attack or club face 2* here or there?  No way.

My though is if I hit the ball left, the R10 displays the ball going left, not right. I understand if the degree of left is inconsistent, but I don’t think it’s too much to expect the general direction to be 90% spot on.

[jeg208]

34 minutes ago, Cactus Jack said:

My though is if I hit the ball left, the R10 displays the ball going left, not right. I understand if the degree of left is inconsistent, but I don’t think it’s too much to expect the general direction to be 90% spot on.

 

Is yours not doing that?  I mean I haven't ran analytics against it, but my spot checks post "string alignment" certainly feel in excess of 90%.  The only wild ones I saw were on mishits.

 

EDIT:  This is in response to shot shape.  I can feel the responses being generated...

Edited August 27, 2021 by jeg208

[cometravi]

8 hours ago, jeg208 said:

 

My irons are 1/2" over standard.  Your ball speeds don't match the carry distances you claim, your hybrid and driver distances don't match the short iron distances you claim, and you are filling this thread with misinformation.

 

The unit is radar based, not IR, and incredibly accurate under 200 yards for $600.  There is a possible problem with longer irons and up.

The ball speeds i reported are from the R10 unit itself along with the carry, again from R10. Then there is the real world yardages i get when i play. Only Information here. No misinformation!!!!

 

My Driver carries 250, 7I 170, 9i 150 and GW 130, Those are the most real numbers I have based on laser measured distances. 

 

I redid my entire indoor set up with 8ft behind and 8 ft in front. Slightly better but still a gap.

 

 

 

 

[jeg208]

5 minutes ago, cometravi said:

The ball speeds i reported are from the R10 unit itself along with the carry, again from R10. Then there is the real world yardages i get when i play. Only Information here. No misinformation!!!!

 

My Driver carries 250, 7I 170, 9i 150 and GW 130, Those are the most real numbers I have based on laser measured distances. 

 

I redid my entire indoor set up with 8ft behind and 8 ft in front. Slightly better but still a gap.

 

 

 

 

 

If those are your normal average carry distances plus a 200 yard hybrid, I would highly advise you to go do a gapping session with a reputable dealer.  Other than that, perhaps you have a faulty unit or an issue with your setup still.

Edited August 27, 2021 by jeg208

[stanjl50]

1 hour ago, Cactus Jack said:

My though is if I hit the ball left, the R10 displays the ball going left, not right. I understand if the degree of left is inconsistent, but I don’t think it’s too much to expect the general direction to be 90% spot on.

I don't understand your fixation on left versus right. Let' say, hypothetically, that the Garmin is accurate within 2 degrees in each direction. That would mean that if you hit the ball 4 degrees left, it would give a result between 6 degrees left and 2 degrees left. If you hit it straight, it would show between 2 degrees left and 2 degrees right. In the latter case, one is left and one is right but it is no worse than the first case. There is nothing special about reading left when you go right. What counts is how far apart the two are. 

[Cactus Jack]

1 minute ago, stanjl50 said:

I don't understand your fixation on left versus right. Let' say, hypothetically, that the Garmin is accurate within 2 degrees in each direction. That would mean that if you hit the ball 4 degrees left, it would give a result between 6 degrees left and 2 degrees left. If you hit it straight, it would show between 2 degrees left and 2 degrees right. In the latter case, one is left and one is right but it is no worse than the first case. There is nothing special about reading left when you go right. What counts is how far apart the two are. 

Give the MGS review another read.
 

Compared to real life the R10 often provides the user with flat out wrong data. Period. We’re not talking small degrees, we’re talkin basic right and left. Seriously, this isn’t complicated, it’s either right or wrong. Again, we’re not talking 2* left vs .5* right, we’re talking about completely different shot shapes. 
 

Compounding the problem is the Garmin isn’t even consistent to itself. MGS says multiple data points, again basics like spin, and club bats are questionable at best or borderline unusable. Folks here have posted similar flat out wrong data like +7 AoA with an iron. As such, currently we can’t rely on the R10 to optimize our gear, we definitely can’t use it for training swing path, perform gapping sessions, even playing the sim will be wrong. How are we supposed to use and trust the R10 for anything?

[jeg208]

 

3 minutes ago, Cactus Jack said:

Give the MGS review another read.
 

Compared to real life the R10 often provides the user with flat out wrong data. Period. We’re not talking small degrees, we’re talkin basic right and left. Seriously, this isn’t complicated, it’s either right or wrong. Again, we’re not talking 2* left vs .5* right, we’re talking about completely different shot shapes. 
 

Compounding the problem is the Garmin isn’t even consistent to itself. MGS says multiple data points, again basics like spin, and club bats are questionable at best or borderline unusable. Folks here have posted similar flat out wrong data like +7 AoA with an iron. As such, currently we can’t rely on the R10 to optimize our gear, we definitely can’t use it for training swing path, perform gapping sessions, even playing the sim will be wrong. How are we supposed to use and trust the R10 for anything?

 

Well, I took a quick look at that article.  I can tell you with 100% certainty, because I was dumb enough to try it as well, that setting the R10 on its own box in the grass, leaning to one side, lead to poor results.

[Cactus Jack]

Just now, jeg208 said:

 

 

Well, I took a quick look at that article.  I can tell you with 100% certainty, because I was dumb enough to try it as well, that setting the R10 on its own box in the grass, leaning to one side, lead to poor results.

I did see that. If that’s how they actually tested it, bad on them. 

[whumber]

49 minutes ago, Cactus Jack said:

Give the MGS review another read.
 

Compared to real life the R10 often provides the user with flat out wrong data. Period. We’re not talking small degrees, we’re talkin basic right and left. Seriously, this isn’t complicated, it’s either right or wrong. Again, we’re not talking 2* left vs .5* right, we’re talking about completely different shot shapes. 
 

Compounding the problem is the Garmin isn’t even consistent to itself. MGS says multiple data points, again basics like spin, and club bats are questionable at best or borderline unusable. Folks here have posted similar flat out wrong data like +7 AoA with an iron. As such, currently we can’t rely on the R10 to optimize our gear, we definitely can’t use it for training swing path, perform gapping sessions, even playing the sim will be wrong. How are we supposed to use and trust the R10 for anything?

 

The MGS review was disappointingly light on actual content, just a single video of shot shape comparison with zero context and a whole bunch of affiliate links. From my experience the majority of L/R misses come from off-center strikes that induce some amount of gear effect. For sure, that's a weakness of the R10 but otherwise general shot shape is pretty good from what i've seen; it's definitely not perfect but the MGS review seemed overly harsh. 

[Sandhurst241069]

9 minutes ago, whumber said:

 

The MGS review was disappointingly light on actual content, just a single video of shot shape comparison with zero context and a whole bunch of affiliate links. From my experience the majority of L/R misses come from off-center strikes that induce some amount of gear effect. For sure, that's a weakness of the R10 but otherwise general shot shape is pretty good from what i've seen; it's definitely not perfect but the MGS review seemed overly harsh. 

This … conspicuously so..

[cometravi]

3 hours ago, jeg208 said:

 

If those are your normal average carry distances plus a 200 yard hybrid, I would highly advise you to go do a gapping session with a reputable dealer.  Other than that, perhaps you have a faulty unit or an issue with your setup still.

It’s my 4H. I also have a 3W and 3H in my bag that takes care of the gapping …

[Red4282]

The lack of content and reviews from the main youtubers is really strange. Almost if someone has a restriction on them… hmmm. Good for garmin to shake things up, we all win..

[jeg208]

2 hours ago, cometravi said:

It’s my 4H. I also have a 3W and 3H in my bag that takes care of the gapping …

I rest my case.  Lol.

[ironcat]

7 hours ago, whumber said:

 

The MGS review was disappointingly light on actual content, just a single video of shot shape comparison with zero context and a whole bunch of affiliate links. From my experience the majority of L/R misses come from off-center strikes that induce some amount of gear effect. For sure, that's a weakness of the R10 but otherwise general shot shape is pretty good from what i've seen; it's definitely not perfect but the MGS review seemed overly harsh. 

 

The GCQuad is ”The official launch monitor for mygolfspam". That's a line that smells of sponsorship so would stand to reason.

 

Likewise it's why the likes of crossfield (also sponsored) don't mention it. 

 

Not saying the review is incorrect as I haven't tested myself but why anyone trusts mygolfsponsor on anything is totally beyond me.

[doctorgriffo]

Has anyone else seen bizarre club head speed values, and resultant crazy smash factors? The ball speed seems pretty accurate and it is getting the ball flight mostly right, but my first few 3 woods gave me the distance I’d expect (about a 240-250 carry) and ball speeds (either side of 150mph) but it was giving a club head speed of 90mph, and one of 87mph. It was worse with driver, where I got an expected carry and ball speed in the right ballpark (260-270 carry with ball speeds of 155-low 160sj but a club head speed of low 90s. Either Callaway has developed the most amazing driver and fairway wood line and got efficiency up to 1.7, or there is something off… 

Occasionally it got the club head speed more realistic, and irons seem ok. AoA values are all over the place (hitting up 7 deg with a 3 wood off the deck that wasn’t topped 5 yards) with woods as well. 

[mgoblue83]

Radar has a hard time dealing with the head geometry of woods. Even Trackman can over/under report CHS between different manufacturers depending on shape and material.

 

The good news is that the Ball speed number is the only thing that really matters as you can feel if it was centered strike or not.

[Sandhurst241069]

18 minutes ago, mgoblue83 said:

Radar has a hard time dealing with the head geometry of woods. Even Trackman can over/under report CHS between different manufacturers depending on shape and material.

 

The good news is that the Ball speed number is the only thing that really matters as you can feel if it was centered strike or not.

Still waiting gor the R10 but I’d happily (and hypothetically) trade accuracy in CHS for solid path and AOA numbers .. having said that the youtube reviews haven’t been awful on CHS but perhaps some clubs just read better than others.. certainly my SC300 gives pretty decent CHS numbers 

[doctorgriffo]

2 minutes ago, Sandhurst241069 said:

Still waiting gor the R10 but I’d happily (and hypothetically) trade accuracy in CHS for solid path and AOA numbers .. having said that the youtube reviews haven’t been awful on CHS but perhaps some clubs just read better than others.. certainly my SC300 gives pretty decent CHS numbers 

Unfortunately, in my experience, the angle of attack numbers were all over the place and the path data wasn’t great either (my swing is pretty consistent - I hit a little to the left/inside for a consistent fade, and the numbers show a giant out to in chop and huge banana slices)

[Wildest1]

Almost all the R10 reviews and critiques are based on one main assumption: All individual R10 units are physically and functionally identical. But is that true? Do variations in setup, alignment and expectations account for all the different results? Or are individual R10 units slightly different? Can an R10 be internally out of alignment? Can you get a lemon?

 

Also, Garmin's R10 software doesn't require you identify which club you are using, other than for grouping shots for range practice. Could the data accuracy be improved if calculations incorporated your manually entered club (with an adjustable loft angle like the Voice Caddie SC200 and SC300 units)? 

 

The R10's claim to fame is the amazing amount of data it produces for the price, and the free and cheap golf sims are a bonus. The frustration comes from the inaccuracy and/or inconsistency of that data. Will updated software and firmware improve the experience? Are our expectations unrealistic considering the price and technology?

 

Any opinions?

 

 

 

 

Edited August 30, 2021 by Wildest1

[Sandhurst241069]

18 minutes ago, doctorgriffo said:

Unfortunately, in my experience, the angle of attack numbers were all over the place and the path data wasn’t great either (my swing is pretty consistent - I hit a little to the left/inside for a consistent fade, and the numbers show a giant out to in chop and huge banana slices)

Yep seems to be the case .. hence my “hypothetically” .. to the point following yours it does seem that there a vastly different experiences from unit to unit / customer to customer / environment to environment .. you’d hope that QA would tick the box for a company like Garmin though it’s possible the production line is not mature .. either that or its a very sensitive unit..

[Cactus Jack]

1 hour ago, mgoblue83 said:

Radar has a hard time dealing with the head geometry of woods. Even Trackman can over/under report CHS between different manufacturers depending on shape and material.

 

The good news is that the Ball speed number is the only thing that really matters as you can feel if it was centered strike or not.

Some of my highest ball speed numbers ever were…snap hooks. Seriously, shots that felt crushed, pure, and gave me 175+ ball speed but carried a whopping 220 🙂 .  
 

My main point of contention with the R10 is the left/right discrepancy. If I used the R10 to train my swing hitting into a net/screen, and it’s telling me my ball is a fade or straight vs. the hook I just snapped off the planet, I’d be in a world of hurt on the course. 

[whumber]

2 hours ago, doctorgriffo said:

Has anyone else seen bizarre club head speed values, and resultant crazy smash factors? The ball speed seems pretty accurate and it is getting the ball flight mostly right, but my first few 3 woods gave me the distance I’d expect (about a 240-250 carry) and ball speeds (either side of 150mph) but it was giving a club head speed of 90mph, and one of 87mph. It was worse with driver, where I got an expected carry and ball speed in the right ballpark (260-270 carry with ball speeds of 155-low 160sj but a club head speed of low 90s. Either Callaway has developed the most amazing driver and fairway wood line and got efficiency up to 1.7, or there is something off… 

Occasionally it got the club head speed more realistic, and irons seem ok. AoA values are all over the place (hitting up 7 deg with a 3 wood off the deck that wasn’t topped 5 yards) with woods as well. 

 

Yeah, I had one driver shot with a ball speed of 172mph and a club speed of 63mph. My suspicion is that it will sometimes pick up either flying tees, divots, or adjacent golfers and confuse the club data.

[DKMascher]

Just wanted to post my experience for anyone struggling with distances. Got mine yesterday and was so looking forward to using it in my garage. Like many, I was very disappointed to find all of my clubs were coming up way shorter than what I know I hit. I play quite a bit and have a very good idea of what the yardage should be on a shot. 

I took it out to the range today just to eliminate the “bad unit” possibility. Used a rangefinder to ping some distances and the unit was very close with most shots. Had a few mis reads and of course the path data seemed off on some,  but in general the ball flight mimicked what I was seeing. 

Came back home and reconfigured my setup in the garage. Moved out a ton of things that might possibly be causing interference. Added a few lights and made a little more room for the ball to travel before hitting the net. Finally, I think the alignment is so touchy on this thing. Spent a ton of time on this part and got it right in line and all of the sudden my distances started matching what they should be. Not perfect every time, but within 5 yards or so which is a huge improvement from the 20-30 or more I was down before. Haven’t had time to try the driver with the new setup but I’ll do that tomorrow and follow up with everyone. 
 

Bottom line, I think Garmin does need to update the firmware soon ( and I believe  they will) as it’s clear some adjustments need to be made for indoor use, but after being so disappointed with it yesterday, I’m equally excited about it today. It takes work to get it all set up, but this is a pretty cool unit for the price. 

[Spells]

1 hour ago, Cactus Jack said:

Some of my highest ball speed numbers ever were…snap hooks. Seriously, shots that felt crushed, pure, and gave me 175+ ball speed but carried a whopping 220 🙂 .  
 

My main point of contention with the R10 is the left/right discrepancy. If I used the R10 to train my swing hitting into a net/screen, and it’s telling me my ball is a fade or straight vs. the hook I just snapped off the planet, I’d be in a world of hurt on the course. 

Are you finding the pattern on the driving range app unusual? I have seen some obvious misreads, and woods are short, but for a sim round I'm not sure I care if it mis-interprets shot shape or even left/right as long as the shots are landing in the same typical scatter plot as I would see in real life.  I know I can't use it for training shot shape, but I wasn't really expecting that.

[Maton12]

On 8/27/2021 at 5:56 PM, wolfyand1 said:

yeah more and more thinking i should bite the bullet and get a rapsodo from golfbox that will come in 2 days....

Did you buy the last one? As out of stock  https://www.golfbox.com.au/technology/rapsodo-launch-monitor/

[RCGA]

Has anyone hit like, x50 7 irons and compared the results to the QC Quad? 

 

I don't care about the random outliers where the R10 is glitching. If I hit 50 shots, and 5 are reporting to be way short, 5 are way long, but 40 are within spec, that's pretty good and easy enough to narrow in and have a useful practice session. 

[Spells]

10 hours ago, DKMascher said:

Came back home and reconfigured my setup in the garage. Moved out a ton of things that might possibly be causing interference. Added a few lights and made a little more room for the ball to travel before hitting the net. Finally, I think the alignment is so touchy on this thing. Spent a ton of time on this part and got it right in line and all of the sudden my distances started matching what they should be. Not perfect every time, but within 5 yards or so which is a huge improvement from the 20-30 or more I was down before. Haven’t had time to try the driver with the new setup but I’ll do that tomorrow and follow up with everyone.

 

 

Could you include some specifics on what sort of items were moved out of the way, and how far? I've used mine outside, where it works well, but I'm wondering about what sort of items need to be moved and how far out of the path. A pic of your setup would be awesome.