Arg's Travel Log

[hammergolf]

5 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

Primm Valley GC, Desert Course, Nipton, CA 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One of the par 3s on the adjacent Lakes course 

 

 

 

 

Full photo set: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/f6bgi419w1av77cwjq7af/AMOEatOsUg93THPWnNEpu_U?rlkey=axxd9evok6bhiozqqlr6oexkl&dl=0

 

What’s the price of the Lakes course? Crazy the difference in conditioning….

[st1800e]

6 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

Fun day. Instead of the usual travel day, I decided to play a rare round on the drive to Las Vegas. Most of the courses I've played in the past two weeks have been rather blah, so I decided to play my last round in California on this leg of the journey at a decent track. Scoped out the parking situation at Primm Valley, and it looked like they could fit Bessie and the toad. With the course along I-15, it was too tempting to pass up. Warm, but unfortunately cloudy. There's a large solar farm adjacent to the course, which adds a unique look to the area. 

 

I didn't have a tee time, but I got lucky for the most part. I wanted to play the Lakes course, but the pro shop warned me that it was packed, probably due to the excellent conditions, and I would be looking at a 4.5 to 5 hour round. Ugh. The Desert course was wide open, although conditions weren't ideal. I opted for Desert, and sailed through the round with only one foursome to play through. 

 

The course is a Tom Fazio design, and a very good one at that. The desert style layout has plenty of trouble on the rolling terrain. No dramatic elevation changes, but several nice elevated teeboxes, greens, and numerous uneven lies. Bunkering was solid, both fairway and greenside. Water in play on five holes. Four holes with left/right movement, including a couple with forced carries over the desert. 

 

Moderately difficult off the tee with plenty of bunkers in play, and several fairways with side slope that can feed drives down into the junk. Not a wide swath of rough, so minor misses might find trouble. If it did find rough the lies were really crummy with patchy turf. Big misses would sail off into the desert. You might get lucky. 

 

Approaches were tough with well guarded greens, and a couple of forced carries. The uneven lies in the fairways didn't help. Greens had a good amount of contouring and slope. I would have liked to have seen a little more, but they're no slouches. Putting was moderately difficult. Up and downs were also tricky with iffy, uneven lies. A handful of greens have mounding besides and behind, so up and downs came with a downhill lie. 

 

Par 3s were very good with plenty of trouble. Variety of length was poor, though. Mid iron on all four. Par 5s were excellent. Three presented good risk/reward opportunities, although it was the deep bunkering that was potentially penal, and not a penalty area. The 18th did have a waterfall left of the green, but you'd have to really tug a fairway wood to find it. Short 4s were very good with nice bunkering. 

 

Conditions were generally poor. Fairways were generally dormant, although there was a little green in there. Many bare areas. It sure looked like Lakes was overseeded, as it was green as could be. The rough was more weeds than turf grass. Saw plenty of dandelions. Bunkers had sand, but it was compacted. Doesn't look like they've been groomed in some time. Greens looked OK, but we're grainy and slow. Probably 9. 

 

Played a Blue/White combo at 6315 yds (69.9/126). Excellent day ballstriking, but couldn't dial in the speed on the putts. The grip change is starting to work. One birdie and four bogies. Highlight of the day was an actual sandy on the par 4 12th. Nice thump in the compacted sand to 2'.

 

Going with a solid 6 cows here. Bummed that they don't allow walking, as it would have been an easy hike on an empty course. I'll give them a pass on the conditions, but they really do need to keep them up, especially when one looks over at the Lakes course. The $99 riding rate wasn't bad, and I have a feeling it might be the cheapest round in a while. Being an hour from the Strip probably plays a big factor. Not sure it's worth the drive if you're in LV, but it's certainly worth a play if you're passing by on I-15. 

 

Too bad the Lakes course was jammed up for you.  Played it twice last Nov…. the Desert was closed. They only keep one course open in the “slow” season.   And only the Lakes was over seeded.   
In any event you did see a Tom Fazio layout.  Can’t go wrong with Tom.   
And the story… When Tom Fazio was contracted to build Shadow Creek it was on the condition that Tom would never build another course in Nevada.  So the Primm courses were built just over the state line.  By someone with a dream and money.  Unfortunately they’re just a bit too far from Vegas and there’s no reasonable accommodation nearby, just a few cut rate casino hotels in Primm, and one of them is closed.  A shame really, both great layouts.  But as you say, worth the stop if you’re going by.  

[2Tall4Golf]

6 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

I've uploaded the current course rating list:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/7tlm9hur9pzqsire0ye46/ArgsCourseRatings.csv?rlkey=d05u2uknsbynkdeq454hny236&dl=0

 

 

Hey Arg -

 

What would you rate the courses you used to play in the Chicago area?  Would help me get a reference for your rating system.

[Argonne69]

9 hours ago, hammergolf said:

What’s the price of the Lakes course? Crazy the difference in conditioning….

 

I believe it was $129.

 

[Argonne69]

7 hours ago, 2Tall4Golf said:

 

Hey Arg -

 

What would you rate the courses you used to play in the Chicago area?  Would help me get a reference for your rating system.

 

The top tier courses like Dubsdread and The Glen Club would probably rate a 7, or possibly 8. Courses like Prairie Landings, Cantigny, Highlands of Elgin, Thunderhawk, Stonewall Orchard, the Preserve, Blackstone, Bowes Creek, and Mistwood would likely be 6's. Many of the local tracks that were part of my regular rotation would be 4s and 5s, e.g. Coyote Run, Maple Meadows, Sunset Valley, Glencoe.

 

Occasionally I'd play a course for old times sake that would likely be a 3, e.g. Jackson Park.

 

Not a lot of great golf in Chicago, but there are dozens of decent, middle of the pack layouts that won't break the bank.

 

[Mullenboy]

15 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

I rolled into California on January 7th, and played Rams Hill the next day. It was an enjoyable 3 months, but it's time for a change of scenery. With record rains in February, it was a little wetter than I'd like, but overall I was very pleased with the weather and the courses. Very chilly at times, but still playable. I played 73 rounds on 72 different courses, with 69 new courses added to my collection. 

 

I had made four previous golf trips to the state, so I I didn't play many of the better courses that I had hit earlier, e.g. Pasatiempo. However, it was nice to see the 2nd and 3rd tier courses, and how they stack up against other areas of the country. Still played plenty of quality tracks. 

 

Other than the LA munis, it was fairly easy to get an early morning tee time. In fact I was shocked at how many times I headed out solo on a nearly empty course. I'm sure being willing to play in 40 degree temperatures played a part. Price was all over the map, but generally speaking it wasn't outrageous. I had a few slow rounds, but overall I was very pleased with the pace of play. I was worried about those notorious 6 hour rounds.

 

Pebble Beach was obviously the highlight of the stay. Couldn't have asked for a better day. Being the first group out on Torrey Pines South was also pretty sweet. Found a handful of hidden gems as well, e.g. Cinnabar Hills, La Purisima. 

 

Lowlights will almost always be the slow rounds, which were thankfully few, and the mandatory cart policies on the walkable courses. Again, thankfully there weren't many. 

 

I can't see myself moving to California due to the cost of housing, but it certainly wouldn't be for the lack of public golf. Plenty of options ranging from the elite courses to quite a few inexpensive, but enjoyable munis. 

 

Western states, here I come. 

 

I've uploaded the current course rating list:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/7tlm9hur9pzqsire0ye46/ArgsCourseRatings.csv?rlkey=d05u2uknsbynkdeq454hny236&dl=0

 

You summed up my home state quite well.  Yeah it can get cold here in the winter - especially in the central and north parts of the state - but an example is this... I play 5-6 days per week year round in Saratoga (near San Jose) and we get maybe 3-4 frost delays each winter... and only rarely rain out completely.  If one is willing to play in early morning low 40s temps, one can play year round.  I sure do.  And that is nice.

 

Housing prices are a joke, of course.  But if one has never lived anywhere else, one doesn't know better.  😉

 

I'd argue with very few of your ratings.  I still think you gipped Monterey Pines and overvalued Blackhorse and a few others.  But outside of that we are simpatico. 🙂

 

Bottom line is I very much enjoyed the tour.  If and when you ever get back to San Jose area, if you are interested, we'll get you on some of the private clubs.

 

Hang in there in Vegas.  Not my favorite place.

Edited April 19 by Mullenboy

[Argonne69]

A very enjoyable morning for my first round in Nevada on this trip. Only five states to go. Warm, but not hot. The course doesn't allow walking, so I rode out to my ball in the fairway with my playing partner, and then walked in from there. Waited on most holes, so pace was not an issue.

 

Reflection Bay today, a Jack Nicklaus design. Ranks #8 in the state on GolfWeek's best in state list. Seems high, but I haven't played many courses in Nevada. Lovely views of Lake Las Vegas. Felt tame for a Jack course. Bunkering was solid, but his usual tricky greens were dialed back. I believe it's a resort course with a Hilton on-site, which might explain it. Tough opening hole with two forced carries, but the starter told me that they flipped the nines a while back to ensure that players making the turn would drive by the clubhouse and pick up food and drinks. Bah. The new 18th is bland. I guess it could be called a housing development layout, but the large homes are set up high and out of the way. While it's a desert layout, there's more green than brown. Even though it sits on Lake Las Vegas, there was water in play on just four holes. Zero left/right movement. 

 

Fairways were rather generous, so even with good bunkering it was fairly easy off the tee. Many fairways had mounding on the sides, so many minor misses would rebound back into the short grass. Big misses were lost balls in the desert scrub. Approaches were tough with well guarded greens. Greens had moderate contouring and slope, so while they weren't as tough as the best of Jack's designs, putting still required some touch. Up and downs were tough with plenty of uneven lies around the greens. Short sided myself a few times, and had a couple of tricky downhill chips from behind the green. 

 

Par 3s were very good. Decent amount of trouble, but could use a little more variety in the lengths. The 17th with water left was the best. The 8th with water right was no slouch. 5s were very good with a couple of reachable risk/reward holes. The 6th had an angled fairway with a carry over an arroyo. Take a chance biting off a big chance, and you could go for it with heavy bunkering awaiting. The 14th had a small green with a pond and waterfall right. Reachable with a very good drive, but very risky. The pair of short 4s were meh. 

 

Conditions were decent, but far from perfect. Fairways had some brown, but were firm, and it was nice to be getting some rollout. Rough was light. Bunkers had plenty of compacted sand. For the price, I expect someone to get some back into it and bust up the stuff. Greens were bumpy and slow. Probably recovering from aeration a couple of weeks ago. 

 

Played the White tees at 6391 yds (71.8/136). Driver was a star today. Irons? Decent, but not up to standards. One birdie and six bogies. Highlight of the day was the driver. Best day driving in quite some time. Getting some rollout on the firm fairways was a bonus. Two of my playing partners were from Chicago, and we had a great time. 

 

Going with a solid 6 cows. Don't think it quite reaches the sevens. A good barrel aged imperial stout might make me reconsider. Lol Could use a tough short par 3, and a couple of tough short 4s. I'd also like to see tougher greens, but that's not likely. The $225 weekend resort rate was definitely high, but welcome to Sin City in April. $150 would be more like it. Borderline must play, but probably worth a visit. Can't say I'd pay $200+ to play it again. 

 

Edited April 19 by Argonne69

[Argonne69]

Reflection Bay GC, Henderson, CA 

 

Tough opening tee shot from the tips. 

 

 

 

 

Excellent risk/reward off the tee on the par 5 6th 

 

 

 

Par 5 9th from the tips 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Full photo set: https://dl.dropbox.com/scl/fo/dk87dz4ar62u8p5kzdbuz/APIyWfKqtbpM9Ozx53nLAtU?rlkey=j1cwj7a2gv3169lwx2d0ps2jd&dl=0

 

[Argonne69]

Mojave Brewing Company. 20 taps with the usual suspects. The Ain't Nothing to F+++ With Imperial Stout was heavenly. At 17% ABV it's definitely approaching the stratosphere. 

 

 

[eboettne]

25 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

Reflection Bay GC, Henderson, CA 

 

Tough opening tee shot from the tips. 

 

 

 

 

Excellent risk/reward off the tee on the par 5 6th 

 

 

 

Par 5 9th from the tips 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Full photo set: https://dl.dropbox.com/scl/fo/dk87dz4ar62u8p5kzdbuz/APIyWfKqtbpM9Ozx53nLAtU?rlkey=j1cwj7a2gv3169lwx2d0ps2jd&dl=0

 

 

Nice review, I really enjoyed Reflection Bay when I played it about 5 years ago.  However it was green and lush at that time and I got a golfnow deal of $75.  

 

What a bummer they flipped the 9's, was a pretty great close with that par 5 that hugged the water on the right side.

[caniac6]

What’s the plan after you do the next 5 states?

[Argonne69]

25 minutes ago, caniac6 said:

What’s the plan after you do the next 5 states?

 

Going to slowly work my way across the south this winter from SoCal to Georgia. Instead of packing up every few days, I'll spend a couple of weeks in each town. Likely hit LA, Vegas, Phoenix Tucson, Dallas, and Houston before traveling the gulf coast to the Carolinas. Haven't settled on a new place to settled down in. 

 

[Argonne69]

What a treat. Another hidden gem in a town not known for barbeque. Jessie Rae's BBQ in Henderson, conveniently located on Boulder Highway. Ribs were meaty and tender, although I'd like just a little more fat. Brisket was fatty and tender, but I prefer sliced over chopped. Hot links were juicy with a nice kick. Baked beans were excellent with a nice kick without being overly spicy. Sauces were all very good, including the mustard and SC vinegar. The sweet and spicy sauces were top notch. Not enough food for leftovers, but it was a good value at under $30. Highly recommended. 

 

 

[Double Mocha Man]

28 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

What a treat. Another hidden gem in a town not known for barbeque. Jessie Rae's BBQ in Henderson, conveniently located on Boulder Highway. Ribs were meaty and tender, although I'd like just a little more fat. Brisket was fatty and tender, but I prefer sliced over chopped. Hot links were juicy with a nice kick. Baked beans were excellent with a nice kick without being overly spicy. Sauces were all very good, including the mustard and SC vinegar. The sweet and spicy sauces were top notch. Not enough food for leftovers, but it was a good value at under $30. Highly recommended. 

 

 

 

Do you post these reviews on Yelp, Google and Trip Advisor?  

[Argonne69]

13 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

 

Do you post these reviews on Yelp, Google and Trip Advisor?  

 

I've posted a few on Google. 

 

[aloha b.]

6 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

What a treat. Another hidden gem in a town not known for barbeque. Jessie Rae's BBQ in Henderson, conveniently located on Boulder Highway. Ribs were meaty and tender, although I'd like just a little more fat. Brisket was fatty and tender, but I prefer sliced over chopped. Hot links were juicy with a nice kick. Baked beans were excellent with a nice kick without being overly spicy. Sauces were all very good, including the mustard and SC vinegar. The sweet and spicy sauces were top notch. Not enough food for leftovers, but it was a good value at under $30. Highly recommended. 

 

 

Jessie Rae's is really good, there's also Fox Smokehousse BBQ in Boulder City and Rollin Smoke BBQ

[Argonne69]

Wonderful morning. Wow. Fantastic weather, and a heck of a course. Thanks for the recommendation, @cbbaron. As an added bonus I was shocked that they allow walking. Now, I'm probably the only player who's walked in months, but hey, big tip of the hat. Of course we had to wait on most shots, but that's another reason I like walking. Two of my playing partners bailed after two holes due to "Vegas Fever". I hope they were able to get a raincheck.

 

Bali Hai today. It's certainly not Shadow Creek, but they sure moved a lot of dirt and sand to carve this one out of the flat desert on Las Vegas Blvd. Sorry for the excessive number of photos of Mandalay Bay, but hey, when you have time to kill. Lol. I guess I'd classify it as a desert layout, but with plenty of palm trees it plays more parkland. Plenty of rolling hills to provide ample uneven lies. Water on five holes. A little too much back and forth with just one slight sweeper. Can't say it got boring, though. Bunkering was very good, both fairway and greenside. Besides not having drinking water on the course, the only nit was the constant buzz of aircraft taking off overhead from the airport previously known as McCarren. 

 

Fairly easy off the tee with generous side mounds that helped many a slight miss find the short grass. Minor misses would generally kick down, but the rough was still thick enough to grab a ball now and again and leave a wicked hanging lie. Big misses would generally find an adjacent fairway, as I did twice. Lol. Grip change. Grrr. Approaches were tough with well guarded greens. Had to play away from the trouble several times. The long par 4 18th had its green tucked behind a pond with a lovely beach. Felt like the wave pool at Mandalay. The greens were very fun with plenty of tiering, contours, and slope. Definitely challenging, but not cartoonish. Up and downs were tough with plenty of uneven lies around the greens. Had a couple of flops over the deep bunkers. 

 

The five par 3s were very good. Plenty of trouble. The short 16th was an island green. The pair on the front both had water in play. The long 14th was tough simply because it was very long. 5s were a disappointing. Tough, but no risk/reward. Short 4s were meh. 

 

Conditions were good. Fairways had a nice amount of brown, and were giving generous amounts of rollout. Rough was fairly low. Bunkers had plenty of sand, but once again compacted. Sigh. Break that stuff up. Greens were still healing from aeration. Bumpy and slow. 9 at most. 

 

Played a Bali/Sand (Green/White) combo at 6380 yds on the par 71 layout (70.4/127). Other than blocking a couple of drives into the adjacent fairways, it was a good day off the tee. Irons were decent. Putter struggled on the aerated greens. One birdie and six bogies. Highlight of the day was my playing partner and his "caddie". Both were great company, and we had plenty of laughs as we killed time as a twosome following several foursomes. Don't recall ever seeing a riding caddie, but hey, it's Vegas. Lol. 

 

Going with 6 cows again. Very nice looking course with nice mounding, but it could use a few left/right holes, a pair of risk/reward 5s, and a tough short 4. Pricing on this course is all over the map. I paid $249, which apparently saved me over $300. Yeah, OK. Booking a half hour later would have cost $50 more. Not sure if anyone ever pays the "standard" rate, but rates seem to range from $199 to over $500. Definitely worth a play, but be smart and look for the discounted rounds. 

 

 

Edited April 20 by Argonne69

[Argonne69]

Bali Hai GC, Las Vegas, NV 

 

 

I know they're out there, but still can't wrap my head around snow capped mountains in Las Vegas. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lol. Another blocked tee shot, but hey, at least it wasn't in the adjacent fairway. 

 

 

Did I mention Mandalay? 

 

 

 

Finally got sick of the club tangle in the Hoofer Lite, so went back to the Hoofer Tour. A couple of pounds heavier, but the tangle is better. Not perfect, but not aggravating. 

 

 

Very tough approach on the 18th 

 

 

Full photo set: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/0iuhtim8cum2k3jxawtcw/ACIsn3V7uaWOaeiMnmH-Sxs?rlkey=on70ng2ia3olmd1annqhblwc7&dl=0

 

Edited April 20 by Argonne69

[Argonne69]

As I mentioned before, Yard House is like a home away from home. The Ommegang Three Philosophers Belgian Quad never gets old. Conveniently located less than a mile south of Bali Hai. 

 

 

[mci711]

Man, I love Vegas. I go 4 or so times a year and I still have never golfed there. Shadow Creek is 1 of three in the top 20 public I haven't played. I know you aren't hitting in this trip, but maybe on your next time in the area I'll have to meet you there. I get MGM comps all the time, so I'll grab a room, you can get the greens fee....lol! jk. 

 

Interested to see your Wynn right up. 

 

Also, love that bag. Very clean

Edited April 20 by mci711

[Argonne69]

10 minutes ago, mci711 said:

Man, I love Vegas. I go 4 or so times a year and I still have never golfed there. Shadow Creek is 1 of three in the top 20 public I haven't played. I know you aren't hitting in this trip, but maybe on your next time in the area I'll have to meet you there. I get MGM comps all the time, so I'll grab a room, you can get the greens fee....lol! jk. 

 

Interested to see your Wynn right up. 

 

Also, love that bag. Very clean

 

Wynn is $750. Ouch. Worth it? 

 

[Argonne69]

Driving in Vegas is very similar to driving in Tucson. 5 miles? 20 minutes. The major streets are 1 mile apart, but there are no north/south or east/west highways. The major streets have decent speed limits, but it's one traffic light after another. 

 

[mci711]

1 minute ago, Argonne69 said:

 

Wynn is $750. Ouch. Worth it? 

 

 

No idea, never played it! Ha. I thought I remembered you saying a few pages back that it was on the list that you were going to play. I'd assume no though 😂

[Argonne69]

Just now, mci711 said:

 

No idea, never played it! Ha. I thought I remembered you saying a few pages back that it was on the list that you were going to play. I'd assume no though 😂

 

I'll give them a call. If conditions are decent, I might play it. Seems like many courses in the area have aerated. Not paying $750 plus forecaddie tip for pot marked greens. 

 

[Argonne69]

Doing my part for Mother Earth. 

 

 

 

Edited April 20 by Argonne69

[Argonne69]

Something a little different on this Saturday. Green mole? Very tasty, but I think I'll stick to the pablano mole. Lindo Michoacan has excellent reviews, and was incredibly busy when I showed up. There was a 30 minute wait for a table, but I was able to find a seat at the bar, albeit with a poker screen stealing most of the space. House margarita was very good, and the salsa had a nice kick. 

 

 

[Bubb]

On 4/19/2024 at 5:09 PM, Argonne69 said:

 

Going to slowly work my way across the south this winter from SoCal to Georgia. Instead of packing up every few days, I'll spend a couple of weeks in each town. Likely hit LA, Vegas, Phoenix Tucson, Dallas, and Houston before traveling the gulf coast to the Carolinas. Haven't settled on a new place to settled down in. 

 

What are some of the places you’re considering settling down in?

[Argonne69]

Just now, Bubb said:

What are some of the places you’re considering settling down in?

 

Dallas, Houston, central South Carolina, and central North Carolina are the leading candidates at this point.

 

[eboettne]

3 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

 

Wynn is $750. Ouch. Worth it? 

 

 

Glad you like Bali Hai, gets a lot of hate but I enjoyed the course and was surprised at the character for being right on the strip. 

 

I paid $375 to play The Wynn during covid so got a "deal".  It's a very impressive course conditions wise and there's some neat holes plus the whole experience is great but to pay as much(actually I think Pebble was $625) as I did to play Pebble? That seems high. But I am glad that I played it, friend and I were on a bachelor party and it was a much needed get away from the craziness.

Edited April 21 by eboettne

[eboettne]

3 hours ago, mci711 said:

Man, I love Vegas. I go 4 or so times a year and I still have never golfed there. Shadow Creek is 1 of three in the top 20 public I haven't played. I know you aren't hitting in this trip, but maybe on your next time in the area I'll have to meet you there. I get MGM comps all the time, so I'll grab a room, you can get the greens fee....lol! jk. 

 

Interested to see your Wynn right up. 

 

Also, love that bag. Very clean

 

I kick myself for not playing Shadow Creek when it was still $500.