Putting w. Metronome....good idea or complete sham?

[MelloYello]

Really curious what folks here think, especially those who've tried this. It's often advocated by instructors. 

 

I have tried it but find it to be incredibly awkward and downright unnerving as I can't get any BPM to fit my stroke. 

 

Does the putting stroke even map nicely onto a regular beat or is this just something that sounds like it'd be right? Is there even any temporal symmetry to be found between the moment of take-away, the transition, impact and the point where the putter comes to rest? There doesn't seem to be an even amount of time between any of those points in my stroke and what would inspire someone to think there would be I wonder? 

[Shushwap]

17 minutes ago, MelloYello said:

Really curious what folks here think, especially those who've tried this. It's often advocated by instructors. 

 

I have tried it but find it to be incredibly awkward and downright unnerving as I can't get any BPM to fit my stroke. 

 

Does the putting stroke even map nicely onto a regular beat or is this just something that sounds like it'd be right? Is there even any temporal symmetry to be found between the moment of take-away, the transition, impact and the point where the putter comes to rest? There doesn't seem to be an even amount of time between any of those points in my stroke and what would inspire someone to think there would be I wonder? 

My putting coach preached the use of one.. What I did start doing was my own in my head 1......2 

Its made a massive difference in my putting as I was the king of a fast take away then decelerating on the forward stroke. My friends called me the decel king. It was so frustrating as I couldn't seem to stop.. Until he put me on to the 1...2 

 

 

[Zitlow]

Good idea if you work the putter shaft like a pendulum with an equal amount of arc on both sides of the ball. 

 

The putter head arcs up, down and back up. You won't have a pendulum if you artificially keep the putter head low to the ground. 

[Santiago Golf]

11 hours ago, Shushwap said:

My putting coach preached the use of one.. What I did start doing was my own in my head 1......2 

Its made a massive difference in my putting as I was the king of a fast take away then decelerating on the forward stroke. My friends called me the decel king. It was so frustrating as I couldn't seem to stop.. Until he put me on to the 1...2 

 

 

 

The best putters in the world decelerate 

[MelloYello]

11 hours ago, Zitlow said:

Good idea if you work the putter shaft like a pendulum with an equal amount of arc on both sides of the ball. 

 

The putter head arcs up, down and back up. You won't have a pendulum if you artificially keep the putter head low to the ground. 

 

I question the pendulum analogy. 

 

Putting is not a pendulum, at least not as most people conceive of a pendulum as a frictionless, gravity-driven mechanism, the sway of which will be equal on both sides. The putting stroke is not powered by gravity alone and it surely isn't frictionless. 

 

In putting, we're inputting a non-constant force to control a system with a huge amount of damping (we hold our finish, don't we?!). The putting stroke is hardly the pendulum people were shown in High School Physics class. 

 

I think it's just a bad analogy spread by folks who don't really know what they're talking about. While certain temporal/spatial symmetries absolutely exist in frictionless, gravity-driven pendulums, those same symmetries disappear when force and damping are introduced.  

 

Thus, I'm thinking the introduction of a metronome is probably misguided and potentially harmful??

[Zitlow]

1 hour ago, MelloYello said:

 

I question the pendulum analogy. 

 

Putting is not a pendulum, at least not as most people conceive of a pendulum as a frictionless, gravity-driven mechanism, the sway of which will be equal on both sides. The putting stroke is not powered by gravity alone and it surely isn't frictionless. 

 

In putting, we're inputting a non-constant force to control a system with a huge amount of damping (we hold our finish, don't we?!). The putting stroke is hardly the pendulum people were shown in High School Physics class. 

 

I think it's just a bad analogy spread by folks who don't really know what they're talking about. While certain temporal/spatial symmetries absolutely exist in frictionless, gravity-driven pendulums, those same symmetries disappear when force and damping are introduced.  

 

Thus, I'm thinking the introduction of a metronome is probably misguided and potentially harmful??

 

In golf most people tend to overcomplicate and overthink things breaking down every aspect of swinging a golf club to the quantum level. You don't need to be an Albert Einstein to have a good golf game.  

 

Simplicity is the key. This is Lauren Roberts explaining his putting stroke, he's known as "the boss of the moss" for a reason. In another video he says he focuses on his tempo and swings the putter like a 'pure pendulum".  

 

 

 

[Shushwap]

2 hours ago, Santiago Golf said:

 

The best putters in the world decelerate 

Not like I used to.. It was near impossible to lag put as I would decel.. Pretty tough to get a feel for a 10 foot put when I decel.. 

Some may not like the metronome idea.. Phil Kenyon had a video on it.. I can't remember what all was in it 

I Remeber he talked a lot about tempo 

[Haroputt]

I find the pendulum concept helpful in my  putting stroke 

my full swing is legs driven and head moves with my swing.  Consequently moving my hips and peeking up is bad habit for me when I go from “swing mode” to “putting mode”

I feel that putting and short chip shots are easier if I focus on my upper back/shoulder blade muscle moving the pendulum of my arms. 
It’s not exactly like a grandfather clock because I have some wrist motion and ball is not centered

Ball is slightly in front of the lead eye  

However the pendulum concept  is helpful for me when i lose my putting stroke 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Haroputt

[Hawkeye77]

Try it and see - maybe it will work for you.

 

Personally, introducing something so mechanical into a putting stroke seems self-defeating. 

 

I guess "often advocated" is a relative term and depends where you look for it.  I've never had an instructor suggest using one or frankly seen it advocated, but I'm sure I could Google it and find many either doing it or more likely just quoting and lathing on to someone who does.

Edited February 14, 2022 by Hawkeye77

[GungHoGolf]

90% of tour pros have a tempo between 76 bpm (as measured from start of takeaway to impact), with a range of 72 to 80. And their tempo doesn’t change for different length putts - only the length of their stroke changes. (See this article by Mike Shannon for more explanation of his research on this topic.)

 

I find tempo training with the putter to be extremely helpful.

 

Bonus: I have a metronome I can legally use with me all the time when I’m playing golf - my 34” TM Spider GT swings at exactly 76 bpm when held with two fingers hooked under the bottom of the grip, no matter the length of the swing. (Any putter measuring 24" from tip of head to bottom of grip will swing at this speed.) Prior to every putt, while standing behind the ball, I let it swing in my fingers 3-4 counts, then step into the ball while keeping the count going in my head like 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, etc. When I’m happy with my alignment, I look at the hole on 1, back at the ball on 2, take it back on 3, and impact at 4. Then I wait until 1 to turn my head and follow the ball, and try to hold my finish until I reach 4 again.  

 

For me, this eliminates any hesitation in starting the stroke, gives my conscious brain something consistent/harmless to do in what can be a high pressure situation, and ensures I’m at my correct tempo no matter what my energy or adrenaline levels are. 

 

ps. The frequency your putter swings at is dependent only on the distance between the putter head and pivot point, not the weight of the head or shaft. You can easily measure your putter’s frequency with a free metronome app (or just count its swings for a minute).To make yours swing faster or slower, you can pinch it loosely slightly higher or lower than the bottom of the grip with your thumb and forefinger - or use a longer or shorter grip.

Edited July 25, 2022 by GungHoGolf

[wagolfer7]

10 hours ago, Shushwap said:

Not like I used to.. It was near impossible to lag put as I would decel.. Pretty tough to get a feel for a 10 foot put when I decel.. 

Some may not like the metronome idea.. Phil Kenyon had a video on it.. I can't remember what all was in it 

I Remeber he talked a lot about tempo 

 

Technically you can say they decelerate. However most people would interpret that as truly decelerate on the forward stroke, which is not accurate. 

 

All it means is the peak speed of the putter head, is right before impact not at impact.  The tempo or rhythm is 1.8-2.2 on tour. Meaning the forward stroke as a whole, is moving faster than on the way back.  I think saying pros decelerate, without further detail could be misleading.  

 

With all the different putting styles on tour.... seeing they all fall in the same tempo/rhythm stands out a bit. At least to me. 

 

I think metronome can be good for some.  And can be tough for others. Some have natural rhythm while others don't. I find feeling the weight of the putter head helps me stay in that good tempo range.  

[Hawkeye77]

14 hours ago, GungHoGolf said:

 

 

Bonus: I have a metronome I can legally use with me all the time when I’m playing golf - my 34” Scottie Fastback 1.5 swings at exactly 75 bpm when held with two fingers hooked under the bottom of the grip, no matter the length of the swing. Prior to every putt, while standing behind the ball, I let it swing in my fingers 3-4 counts, then step into the ball while keeping the count going in my head like 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, etc. When I’m happy with my alignment, I look at the hole on 1, back at the ball on 2, take it back on 3, and impact at 4. Then I wait until 1 to turn my head and follow the ball, and try to hold my finish until I reach 4 again.  

 

For me, this eliminates any hesitation in starting the stroke, gives my conscious brain something consistent/harmless to do in what can be a high pressure situation, and ensures I’m at my correct tempo no matter what my energy or adrenaline levels are. 

 

 

 

Not sure how you are classifying that, but you seem to be using it as a training aid which would make it illegal. 

[GungHoGolf]

6 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

Not sure how you are classifying that, but you seem to be using it as a training aid which would make it illegal. 

There’s no way letting my putter swing for 2-3 seconds by my side while I’m behind the ball and keeping that tempo in my head is illegal. 

 

How is it different from practice swings? Or plumb bobbing with it?

[Hawkeye77]

1 hour ago, GungHoGolf said:

There’s no way letting my putter swing for 2-3 seconds by my side while I’m behind the ball and keeping that tempo in my head is illegal. 

 

How is it different from practice swings? Or plumb bobbing with it?

LOL, so sorry man - I misread your post, like completely misread it. I won’t even explain because it is possible for the explanation to be dumber than you might think! 

[Zitlow]

The most terrible, worst putters I've ever known constantly obsessed over every aspect of the putter thing.  How does my stroke look, am I taking it back far enough, how is my grip, do I cut across it, am I lined up properly? All that makes it worse because it prevents your neurons from firing smoothly. 

 

If all else fails give your putter a name and talk to it like it's your best friend.

 

Oh Billy, Billy, Billy this is a biggie... 

 

[LeftDaddy]

I fooled around with the Blast Motion sensor and it showed that my tempo is too fast.  I thought that meant that I needed a slower backswing, but when I checked against a metronome app it was actually my transition. I also do this with chipping (get too quick in transition). I tried swinging to the rhythm of a metronome but couldn’t quite get that down. Basically, though, I need to start taking a longer backswing and a slower downswing. I’m sure this could help me with both path and speed control, but I’ve found it hard to adjust since I’ve putted the “wrong” way for so long. 

[GungHoGolf]

2 hours ago, pressure said:

 

It's not illegal to have a mental click track.  I would say you have a 5 count instead- 4 is impact and 5 is your head turn to follow ball.  I would use a 5 count, but that's just my preference if I used a track.  

Many will probably say the swing is in 4/4 time, but some say it's actually 5/4 time.    Good stuff.

I’m a musician, so 4 beats just feels more natural to me, especially when repeating it in my head prior to taking the shot. 

[MelloYello]

5 minutes ago, GungHoGolf said:

I’m a musician, so 4 beats just feels more natural to me, especially when repeating it in my head prior to taking the shot. 

 

That's literally what got me thinking about it. I'm also a life-long guitarist I found the steady pulse of a metronome to be distracting. In a weird way, my brain just automatically started sub-dividing the pulses. I kept counting "and" or expecting to begin my stroke with a leading note as I might do a musical phrase. 

 

When I tried it, I swear to God it was like trying to recite the alphabet backwards. As soon as I tried it, it just felt terrible. That could be the sign it works, but then again, you read my initial thoughts...I'm not sure about the assumed 'temporal symmetry' in the stroke. Trying to map a steady pulse onto a putting stroke could be flat wrong, IDK. 

[Hawkeye77]

37 minutes ago, GungHoGolf said:

I’m a musician, so 4 beats just feels more natural to me, especially when repeating it in my head prior to taking the shot. 

FWIW, and not much, I might channel a song in my head but for me it's not a tempo thing, it's a clear my head thing.

[Shushwap]

3 hours ago, Zitlow said:

The most terrible, worst putters I've ever known constantly obsessed over every aspect of the putter thing.  How does my stroke look, am I taking it back far enough, how is my grip, do I cut across it, am I lined up properly? All that makes it worse because it prevents your neurons from firing smoothly. 

 

If all else fails give your putter a name and talk to it like it's your best friend.

 

Oh Billy, Billy, Billy this is a biggie... 

 

I need to start calling mine dirty b#tch.. U know where the ball needs  to go u dirty b####

I can't wait to see the looks I get on the green 😂

 

[dmecca2]

@GungHoGolf hit the nail on the head. But he only touched on something that, based on your original post, I think you missed and is causing you the trouble. When people say that they use the metronome for putting, it is one tick to initiate the backstroke, and the second tick should be impact. The follow through is not timed.

[MelloYello]

1 hour ago, dmecca2 said:

@GungHoGolf hit the nail on the head. But he only touched on something that, based on your original post, I think you missed and is causing you the trouble. When people say that they use the metronome for putting, it is one tick to initiate the backstroke, and the second tick should be impact. The follow through is not timed.

 

That's what I figured at first -- take it back on tick #1 and try to be at impact by tick #2 -- but I had to putt very rapidly to keep up with the recommended 80 BPM. 

 

For me, tick #2 was coming sometime right after transition and noticeably before impact throwing me all off. This is what made me think, "there's no way people putt this fast, this feels like a sham." 

 

So now I'm wondering if impact shouldn't be on tick #3, but of course that feels comically slow (not to mention that tick #2 doesn't quite align with the transition either). 
 

** And as a musician who's spent a lifetime hearing things on-beat, it's jarring to me to hear a beat that's just a bit off. It's like a drummer who can't keep time. It cuts through making it all but impossible to concentrate on the actual task of making a good stroke.

 

This is why I say it feels ham-handed at best to try and map beats onto a stroke which probably isn't ever going to be naturally symmetric. Why do we want symmetry anyhow? On what basis? Seems dumb and arbitrary. 

Edited February 15, 2022 by MelloYello

[GungHoGolf]

On 2/15/2022 at 6:43 AM, dmecca2 said:

@GungHoGolf hit the nail on the head. But he only touched on something that, based on your original post, I think you missed and is causing you the trouble. When people say that they use the metronome for putting, it is one tick to initiate the backstroke, and the second tick should be impact. The follow through is not timed.

Correct. And trying to time the backstroke:downstroke ratio to be the 2:1 ratio of most pros is counterproductive in my opinion. Just staying with a fluid, pendulum-like stroke and hitting the 76 bpm on takeaway and then impact leads me to a nearly perfect 2:1 timing ratio every time without consciously trying for it.

Edited July 25, 2022 by GungHoGolf

[GungHoGolf]

On 2/15/2022 at 7:53 AM, MelloYello said:

 

That's what I figured at first -- take it back on tick #1 and try to be at impact by tick #2 -- but I had to putt very rapidly to keep up with the recommended 80 BPM. 

 

For me, tick #2 was coming sometime right after transition and noticeably before impact throwing me all off. This is what made me think, "there's no way people putt this fast, this feels like a sham." 

80 bpm is 4 bpm faster than most pros, and would feel pretty fast to me, too. Most ams are too slow with the backstroke, which leads to over-acceleration on the downstroke, so 76 bpm will probably still feel fast to you, too.

 

A nice side effect of a faster backstroke to hit that tempo is that it tends to smooth out any wobbles in the putter head, and shorten the necessary stroke length for a given length putt - both of which lead to more consistent impact and better rolls.

 

Note that if you take continuous practice strokes, the ticks should happen at the bottom of the arc in both directions, where you'll be making contact with the ball.

Edited July 25, 2022 by GungHoGolf

[MelloYello]

1 hour ago, GungHoGolf said:

80 bpm is 5 bpm faster than most pros, and would feel pretty fast to me, too. Most ams are too slow with the backstroke, which leads to over-acceleration on the downstroke, so 75 bpm will probably still feel fast to you, too.

 

A nice side effect of a faster backstroke to hit that tempo is that it tends to smooth out any wobbles in the putter head, and shorten the necessary stroke length for a given length putt - both of which lead to more consistent impact and better rolls.

 

Note that if you take continuous practice strokes, the ticks should happen at the bottom of the arc in both directions, where you'll be making contact with the ball.

 

Alright, thanks!

 

So my take-away lesson here is that essentially I should experiment with speeding up a bit. I think I may be too cautious / slow / deliberate just as you're describing so I'll try it out.

[khalespace]

On 2/13/2022 at 7:10 AM, Santiago Golf said:

 

The best putters in the world decelerate 

I notice Patrick Cantlay decelerates.

[London424]

This vid basically transformed my putting. 
 

my pace control used to be all over the place. I’d have a 30 foot putt come up 10 feet short because I’d get scared I’d taken the club back too far so would slow down. Then the next 30 footer I’d not take it back as far but then get scared I’d be coming up short so would hit through and blow it 10 feet past. 
 

 

Edited February 15, 2022 by London424

[Shushwap]

15 hours ago, dmecca2 said:

@GungHoGolf hit the nail on the head. But he only touched on something that, based on your original post, I think you missed and is causing you the trouble. When people say that they use the metronome for putting, it is one tick to initiate the backstroke, and the second tick should be impact. The follow through is not timed.

This is where I use the 1....2 in my head...

When I first started I wouldnt even have a ball down... I would just stand in my living room with the putter doing 1......2. and rocking the shoulders

[golftech]

On 2/13/2022 at 7:10 AM, Santiago Golf said:

 

The best putters in the world decelerate 

Actually, peak acceleration is usually at start of downstroke in transition for the best tour putters.  Peak velocity is later and can be before impact and coasting through.  But peak acceleration and velocity are not the same.

[aenemated]

In every gig I had over 20 freakin years as a woking drummer, the most consistent compliment I'd get was about my timekeeping. I attribute this largely to learning to play by playing along to albums I liked - all of which were recorded with a click track. I was never particularly flashy but whatever style it was; my time was dead on. A large percentage of drummers you see onstage nowadays couldn't play to a click if their life depended on it and a dirty secret is that the same bunch of session guys play on most of the albums you hear. I never had that problem. 🙂

 

Why do I mention this?

 

Hell no, you do NOT want anything in your golf swing to be in perfect meter.