Persimmon driver builders

[OsnolaKinnard]

I know Louisville Golf makes “modern” persimmon woods, is there anyone else out there making them?

 

I would love to find an MO9T LFF replica and have it built with a modern graphite shaft at 45” long, or a George Bauer LFF replica to do the same.

 

Is anyone doing this

 

Edited March 6, 2022 by OsnolaKinnard

[Swingingk]

Check out National Custom Works.  Their stuff looks very nice and they have a fine reputation.

[Stephen8802]

Both David Bass and Tad Moore (National Custom Works) build beautiful LFF drivers, as well as other classic models. People who have their clubs rave about them and I would buy either of those without hesitation. Bob Burns makes his own designs and has some really nice looking inserts, including brass Eye O Matic strips and firing pins. And John Hayes bought out the Powell equipment from Joe Powell's family and is in the process of setting up his shop and will soon start making woods. I believe John will be selling 693 and Bayer heads among others. I have heard nothing but good things about all four of these folks as both people and club makers.

 

I think Tad Moore's work is so pretty it borders on too nice to hit; his work is just stunning. I don't know, however, how many clubs he makes and how long it takes to get one. David Bass makes wonderful clubs and will customize them to your specifications. So if you have a specific insert or color in mind, you would be happy with his work. I would think he can accommodate your shaft request as well.  From what I've heard, working with David is a joy. Personally I'm waiting for John Hayes to spin up production and will be one of his first customers. John may be the kindest person on the planet and his work on golf clubs is exceptional. His generosity to people who refinish clubs and are in need of help, advice, and hard to find parts is legendary. Everything he does is good and I can't wait to get one of his signature clubs in my hands.

 

I'm sure there are a few others as well, but those are the ones I know about.

 

[thepunch_out]

@Stephen8802 is spot on with his assessment. The only thing I can add, is speaking firsthand from my experiences with National Custom is that Patrick Boyd and Tad Moore are a pleasure to work with as well. Their responses are timely, they give you the ability to create a fully custom club and the work is outstanding. 

 

National Custom - I don't have a good shot of my Bayer up close but you can see it with the keyhole insert in the last photo.

 

Can't go wrong with LG LFF either. Great quality, but not customizable the way I found Nat'l Custom to be.

[OsnolaKinnard]

7 hours ago, thepunch_out said:

@Stephen8802 is spot on with his assessment. The only thing I can add, is speaking firsthand from my experiences with National Custom is that Patrick Boyd and Tad Moore are a pleasure to work with as well. Their responses are timely, they give you the ability to create a fully custom club and the work is outstanding. 

 

National Custom - I don't have a good shot of my Bayer up close but you can see it with the keyhole insert in the last photo.

 

Can't go wrong with LG LFF either. Great quality, but not customizable the way I found Nat'l Custom to be.

Do you actually play those or just collect?  Just curious.  My gosh, those are beautiful clubs.  I collect firearms and am sort of tapped out and finding that prices have gotten completely out of control...but I tend to gravitate towards things made of steel and wood and not plastic and polymer.  Much the same with golf clubs...I play modern high tech clubs...but love the feel and sound of a persimmon driver making solid contact, and then there is just looking at the darn things...just pure beauty.  

 

That is a great collection.

[BIG STU]

12 hours ago, Stephen8802 said:

Both David Bass and Tad Moore (National Custom Works) build beautiful LFF drivers, as well as other classic models. People who have their clubs rave about them and I would buy either of those without hesitation. Bob Burns makes his own designs and has some really nice looking inserts, including brass Eye O Matic strips and firing pins. And John Hayes bought out the Powell equipment from Joe Powell's family and is in the process of setting up his shop and will soon start making woods. I believe John will be selling 693 and Bayer heads among others. I have heard nothing but good things about all four of these folks as both people and club makers.

 

I think Tad Moore's work is so pretty it borders on too nice to hit; his work is just stunning. I don't know, however, how many clubs he makes and how long it takes to get one. David Bass makes wonderful clubs and will customize them to your specifications. So if you have a specific insert or color in mind, you would be happy with his work. I would think he can accommodate your shaft request as well.  From what I've heard, working with David is a joy. Personally I'm waiting for John Hayes to spin up production and will be one of his first customers. John may be the kindest person on the planet and his work on golf clubs is exceptional. His generosity to people who refinish clubs and are in need of help, advice, and hard to find parts is legendary. Everything he does is good and I can't wait to get one of his signature clubs in my hands.

 

I'm sure there are a few others as well, but those are the ones I know about.

 

Just saw a beautiful LFF that Tad Moore just done for one of the Persimmon Golf Society Members. And LOL it was too beautiful for me to hit. I like the LFF drivers but the one driver I do not have that I want is a Penna Jupiter Slugger. In all my travels in the golf world over the years I have only seen one in person and that was about 50 years ago now.

[BIG STU]

1 hour ago, OsnolaKinnard said:

Do you actually play those or just collect?  Just curious.  My gosh, those are beautiful clubs.  I collect firearms and am sort of tapped out and finding that prices have gotten completely out of control...but I tend to gravitate towards things made of steel and wood and not plastic and polymer.  Much the same with golf clubs...I play modern high tech clubs...but love the feel and sound of a persimmon driver making solid contact, and then there is just looking at the darn things...just pure beauty.  

 

That is a great collection.

You will find there is a mixture on here some collect and some like me play them and do not worry about them. I am one that is in the middle of the road on that. I love to look at what others post on here. And yes I can appreciate someone restoring or keeping an original rare driver etc. Out of all the stuff I own there is only one club that I will not hit and it has never been hit. I know the whole history on that club. It is a Penna Model 1 hand made. Every screw in the face is perfectly lined up as the ones in the soleplate are and the weight port is perfectly aligned. Beautiful blonde color with beautiful grain. When I was photo capable I did a segment with pics on here " Gentlemen Prefer Blondes" Do not know if that post survived the revamp of the software system here a few years back

[thepunch_out]

On 3/7/2022 at 4:42 AM, OsnolaKinnard said:

Do you actually play those or just collect?  Just curious.  My gosh, those are beautiful clubs.  I collect firearms and am sort of tapped out and finding that prices have gotten completely out of control...but I tend to gravitate towards things made of steel and wood and not plastic and polymer.  Much the same with golf clubs...I play modern high tech clubs...but love the feel and sound of a persimmon driver making solid contact, and then there is just looking at the darn things...just pure beauty.  

 

That is a great collection.

I got so tired of golf companies releasing 4-5 new drivers every year and huge marketing blitzes on everything they made. Ultimately, I think it pushed my interests in the opposite direction and I started to appreciate older equipment. The kind that players were attached to for years.

 

Of the 3 clubs I spoke of, the Nat'l Custom Bayer is the only one I don't play. Overall, I probably play 80% of the clubs I buy, the other 20% are some of the more rare and collectible woods I prefer to keep mint and use decoratively in a staff bag. I don't think I've played a round in the last 3 years without at least one persimmon wood in the bag, but most often it's a Driver/4wood combo.

Edited March 8, 2022 by thepunch_out
.

[Hickory4ever]

I have a good collection of original hickory and classic woods as well as some replica hickory woods from Tad Moore and Louisville. The replicas cost a lot more but still are cheaper than modern implements. I bought them to play them regularly and usually reserve my originals for special events on historic golf courses.

 

The replica woods from both companies are beautiful and in my world beg to be played. If my replicas eventually wear out and that will take a long time, I will buy new ones if that becomes necessary. Like Stu, I have several original classic woods and play them frequently. I know local guys that for a modest price that do a fine job refinishing. When I get them back, they go back into play.

 

I would wholeheartedly recommend Tad Moore or Louisville, but believe Tad is a better choice if you want something custom.
 

 

[OsnolaKinnard]

8 hours ago, thepunch_out said:

Much like you, I tend to gravitate towards hand crafted/precision milled goods. I got so tired of golf companies releasing 4-5 new drivers every year and huge marketing blitzes that it actually started pushing my interests in the opposite direction. 

 

Of the 3 clubs I spoke of, the Nat'l Custom Bayer turning is the only one I don't play. Overall, I probably play 80% of the clubs I buy, the other 20% are some of the more rare and collectible woods I prefer to keep mint and use decoratively in a staff bag. I don't think I've played a round in the last 3 years without at least one persimmon wood in the bag, but most often it's a Driver/4wood combo.

I spy the 983E…that is my all time favorite driver.  I found. 10.5* model for 20 bucks that looked like it was never played…great stick.

[OsnolaKinnard]

20 hours ago, Hickory4ever said:

I have a good collection of original hickory and classic woods as well as some replica hickory woods from Tad Moore and Louisville. The replicas cost a lot more but still are cheaper than modern implements. I bought them to play them regularly and usually reserve my originals for special events on historic golf courses.

 

The replica woods from both companies are beautiful and in my world beg to be played. If my replicas eventually wear out and that will take a long time, I will buy new ones if that becomes necessary. Like Stu, I have several original classic woods and play them frequently. I know local guys that for a modest price that do a fine job refinishing. When I get them back, they go back into play.

 

I would wholeheartedly recommend Tad Moore or Louisville, but believe Tad is a better choice if you want something custom.
 

 

Being as I am new to Persimmon and know NOTHING about what I even want in terms of a custom persimmon driver...what are some common 'game improvement' features?  I see things like weights embedded in the back, I assume you can get loft, face angel, head weight, lie angle, etc. all done is that correct?  For example, I currently play a Titleist TSi2 with a Hazardus RDX Smoke Blue 5.5 shaft...it is set at just below 10* of loft, and is 2* shut and 2* upright (I am a cover golfer type swing)...I figure you probably don't just build a persimmon to those specs and then all is good...I imagine this is where the 'art' takes over for the science in it.  

 

Do you sort of need to know what you want, or is there a way that Tad Moore will work with you to help you figure it out?

[Hickory4ever]

2 hours ago, OsnolaKinnard said:

Being as I am new to Persimmon and know NOTHING about what I even want in terms of a custom persimmon driver...what are some common 'game improvement' features?  I see things like weights embedded in the back, I assume you can get loft, face angel, head weight, lie angle, etc. all done is that correct?  For example, I currently play a Titleist TSi2 with a Hazardus RDX Smoke Blue 5.5 shaft...it is set at just below 10* of loft, and is 2* shut and 2* upright (I am a cover golfer type swing)...I figure you probably don't just build a persimmon to those specs and then all is good...I imagine this is where the 'art' takes over for the science in it.  

 

Do you sort of need to know what you want, or is there a way that Tad Moore will work with you to help you figure it out?

Others may have a different take on this, but I will give you my take on things. Tad will be very helpful in this process as he does this every day.

 

Some considerations that you may want to think about. The first important difference between a driver made of solid wood and a hollow metal driver is that the COG is going to be higher in the wooden club. That means that your loft in persimmon will be higher to achieve a similar trajectory. You will also be using a shorter shaft in the persimmon and Tad would be very helpful in guiding you. He can accommodate your preference of a square, open, or closed face.

 

I would also recommend taking out an old persimmon and trying it, they aren’t expensive. Choose one that looks similar to what you want. I have attached a picture of 3 of my favourites. Each has different face heights. 
 

 

[NRJyzr]

3 hours ago, OsnolaKinnard said:

Being as I am new to Persimmon and know NOTHING about what I even want in terms of a custom persimmon driver...what are some common 'game improvement' features?  I see things like weights embedded in the back, I assume you can get loft, face angel, head weight, lie angle, etc. all done is that correct?  For example, I currently play a Titleist TSi2 with a Hazardus RDX Smoke Blue 5.5 shaft...it is set at just below 10* of loft, and is 2* shut and 2* upright (I am a cover golfer type swing)...I figure you probably don't just build a persimmon to those specs and then all is good...I imagine this is where the 'art' takes over for the science in it.  

 

Do you sort of need to know what you want, or is there a way that Tad Moore will work with you to help you figure it out?

 

Haxie!

 

On top of Hickory's post, I would suggest possibly looking at Ping laminate drivers as a test subject.  The Eye2 are nice, the Zings are a bit bigger.  Black dot would be the best choice, the loft is about 12* and probably be a good fit, based on your current stick.

 

The ZZ Lite shaft in the Eye2 woods isn't too stiff, but the KT and KT-M shaft in the Zings is a bit more robust.  There are some graphite shafted Pings out there, though, if you're of a mind to try one.

 

And, they tend to be reasonably priced.  For an experiment, a nice aspect.  🙂

 

[BIG STU]

7 hours ago, OsnolaKinnard said:

Being as I am new to Persimmon and know NOTHING about what I even want in terms of a custom persimmon driver...what are some common 'game improvement' features?  I see things like weights embedded in the back, I assume you can get loft, face angel, head weight, lie angle, etc. all done is that correct?  For example, I currently play a Titleist TSi2 with a Hazardus RDX Smoke Blue 5.5 shaft...it is set at just below 10* of loft, and is 2* shut and 2* upright (I am a cover golfer type swing)...I figure you probably don't just build a persimmon to those specs and then all is good...I imagine this is where the 'art' takes over for the science in it.  

 

Do you sort of need to know what you want, or is there a way that Tad Moore will work with you to help you figure it out?

Oh yes Mr Moore is a great guy and knows his stuff and from what I have seen and heard he will work with you. And he will absolutely figure it out

[OsnolaKinnard]

6 hours ago, Hickory4ever said:

Others may have a different take on this, but I will give you my take on things. Tad will be very helpful in this process as he does this every day.

 

Some considerations that you may want to think about. The first important difference between a driver made of solid wood and a hollow metal driver is that the COG is going to be higher in the wooden club. That means that your loft in persimmon will be higher to achieve a similar trajectory. You will also be using a shorter shaft in the persimmon and Tad would be very helpful in guiding you. He can accommodate your preference of a square, open, or closed face.

 

I would also recommend taking out an old persimmon and trying it, they aren’t expensive. Choose one that looks similar to what you want. I have attached a picture of 3 of my favourites. Each has different face heights. 
 

 

 I went and hit my grandfather in laws Powerbilt Citation…I have no idea the loft or any specs, but my first drive was an absolute bullet that went about 230:yards.  I then started hitting it with a nice consistent little draw that carries  about 200-210 and rolls out a bit.  I love, LOVE the sound at impact, there really isn’t anything else like it…save hitting a baseball with a wooden bat.

 

I also have his Hogan 1, 3, and 5 wood and a Ginty trouble wood.  The ginty is absolute money..I was astounded at how easy that club is to hit.

 

I have a 693T and an M85 coming in from eBay…they are the 80s model, but will give me a few different flavors to try.  I am already on the hunt for an MO9T, a Tony Penna JS, and a GB1…the hunt is the fun part.

with all,the product cycles that just go so fast…this is refreshing and enjoyable …this makes collecting golf equipment fun for me again.

 

 

Edited March 8, 2022 by OsnolaKinnard

[OsnolaKinnard]

Here is my “retro” bag.

 

Powerbilt Citation Driver, Hogan backup driver, Hogan 3 wood, Ginny 7 wood I think, Ram FX pro forged 5-PW, Old Cleveland 52* and a SCOR 60 with a Ping Anser.

[Hickory4ever]

2 hours ago, OsnolaKinnard said:

 I went and hit my grandfather in laws Powerbilt Citation…I have no idea the loft or any specs, but my first drive was an absolute bullet that went about 230:yards.  I then started hitting it with a nice consistent little draw that carries  about 200-210 and rolls out a bit.  I love, LOVE the sound at impact, there really isn’t anything else like it…save hitting a baseball with a wooden bat.

 

I also have his Hogan 1, 3, and 5 wood and a Ginty trouble wood.  The ginty is absolute money..I was astounded at how easy that club is to hit.

 

I have a 693T and an M85 coming in from eBay…they are the 80s model, but will give me a few different flavors to try.  I am already on the hunt for an MO9T, a Tony Penna JS, and a GB1…the hunt is the fun part.

with all,the product cycles that just go so fast…this is refreshing and enjoyable …this makes collecting golf equipment fun for me again.

 

 

Welcome to the club. 

[Swingingk]

The NCW woods are absolutely beautiful and it's fantastic that they are building real persimmons for us but I must admit that for me personally I'm not a huge fan of their stubby looking necks.  I've not seen one in person so maybe I'm all wet here but the from the pictures on their website they don't look as sleek and slender as those of the past.  Has anyone got any insight into this?  Is it just an optical illusion?

 

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

20 minutes ago, Swingingk said:

The NCW woods are absolutely beautiful and it's fantastic that they are building real persimmons for us but I must admit that for me personally I'm not a huge fan of their stubby looking necks.  I've not seen one in person so maybe I'm all wet here but the from the pictures on their website they don't look as sleek and slender as those of the past.  Has anyone got any insight into this?  Is it just an optical illusion?

 

 

Could be for use with modern balls, and maybe for wider shaft diameters as I believe the .294" and .277" tip shafts are hard to find?

 

edit: what I mean is, the thicker necks are to make them stronger and less liable to crack

 

One or two of the later Honma persimmon woods I have have fairly thick, stubby necks, and I just assumed it was for golfers who were using the 2-piece rocks back then like the Wilson Ultras.

Edited March 9, 2022 by No_Catchy_Nickname

[Swingingk]

1 hour ago, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

 

Could be for use with modern balls, and maybe for wider shaft diameters as I believe the .294" and .277" tip shafts are hard to find?

 

edit: what I mean is, the thicker necks are to make them stronger and less liable to crack

 

One or two of the later Honma persimmon woods I have have fairly thick, stubby necks, and I just assumed it was for golfers who were using the 2-piece rocks back then like the Wilson Ultras.

Thanks Catchy.  I think your probably right on all counts and it makes good sense, I guess I'm just old skool in that I love the look of the early woods.  It's true that those early slender necks were and still are prone to cracking.  Likely they are considerably more work to blend nicely to the shaft too.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

12 minutes ago, Swingingk said:

Thanks Catchy.  I think your probably right on all counts and it makes good sense, I guess I'm just old skool in that I love the look of the early woods.  It's true that those early slender necks were and still are prone to cracking.  Likely they are considerably more work to blend nicely to the shaft too.

 

I'll add that I think the picture @thepunch_out posted showing the sole of his NCW persimmon driver exaggerates the stubby look of the neck due to depth perception (if that's the right word?) as the butt end of the club seems to be angled slightly away from the camera.

 

Certainly looks pretty thick, though.

[chazpet]

Thank you all above for the insight on the current persimmon craftsman, one name I haven’t seen in the thread yet is Todd Demsey, has anyone tried his woods? They look and sounds great on Instagram.

 

I would like to eventually get myself some custom persimmons, but don’t have a ton of experience with different specs/shapes. Would you all recommend  getting some clubs for cheap to get a feel for preferences as @OsnolaKinnardmentioned?

[Swingingk]

4 minutes ago, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

 

I'll add that I think the picture @thepunch_out posted showing the sole of his NCW persimmon driver exaggerates the stubby look of the neck due to depth perception (if that's the right word?) as the butt end of the club seems to be angled slightly away from the camera.

 

Certainly looks pretty thick, though.

Yes I think depth perception is the right term - it does exaggerate it a bit.  The side profile pics on the NCW site show it a bit more.  Really though...  I'm totally nit-picking here as both clubs are truly awesome and I'd LOVE to have either one - preferably both!  

[Swingingk]

4 minutes ago, chazpet said:

Thank you all above for the insight on the current persimmon craftsman, one name I haven’t seen in the thread yet is Todd Demsey, has anyone tried his woods? They look and sounds great on Instagram.

 

I would like to eventually get myself some custom persimmons, but don’t have a ton of experience with different specs/shapes. Would you all recommend  getting some clubs for cheap to get a feel for preferences as @OsnolaKinnardmentioned?

Absolutely.  It's great advice and in my opinion the only real way to figure out what specs suit you best.  Besides that it's a great excuse to start your own personal hoard.  😄

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

40 minutes ago, chazpet said:

I would like to eventually get myself some custom persimmons, but don’t have a ton of experience with different specs/shapes. Would you all recommend  getting some clubs for cheap to get a feel for preferences as @OsnolaKinnardmentioned?

 

Absolutely! Before going all in on a build, find out what you like first by trying lots of clubs. Also, avoid range balls with persimmon.

 

About the only way I can find out if a club works for me is to take it in the course and hit it. It makes the first tee shot with a new club that little bit more nerve-wracking! 

[Hickory4ever]

11 hours ago, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

 

Absolutely! Before going all in on a build, find out what you like first by trying lots of clubs. Also, avoid range balls with persimmon.

 

About the only way I can find out if a club works for me is to take it in the course and hit it. It makes the first tee shot with a new club that little bit more nerve-wracking! 

If you want to go to the range, keep an old persimmon or laminate driver for that purpose. They are so inexpensive to pick up. The Ping Eye2 laminates are good for that purpose and are of a good size. 
 

I originally thought I would buy a new classic persimmon but changed my mind after finding so many originals in excellent condition for so little cash. I have bought pristine sets of three woods for $100-150. But for my hickory play, the replicas are perfect and worth the money.

 

I also would make sure to clean your golf ball as a dirty ball can act like sandpaper. It will keep your best clubs looking better longer.

[OsnolaKinnard]

I snagged an 80s vintage 693T and went to the range.  It has an unknown graphite shaft.

 

First swing was an absolute laser and then I proceeded to just repeat this.  The feel and sound is just pure.  The all starts off low and then gently rises about 2/3 of the way out.

 

I have an M85 on the way,but man I really like the deeper faces models.

 

I would love to have a GB1…might have to bite the bullet and buy one.

Edited March 10, 2022 by OsnolaKinnard

[WipeyFade]

I love the look and sound of persimmon/laminated woods. I purchased some MacGregor Nicklaus DIV laminated woods back in the fall and have played them a few times, and I think going forward I am going to play them more often. I would love to be able to find some classic persimmons, but being a lefty, they are difficult to find at a good price. 

[xgolfx]

The number one crucial procedure to make a fine persimmon Driver is the process referred to as necking.

 

The reason why I do not prefer to see a vintage club reshafted is this delic ate  process. When you take the whipping off  it is rare to find one that does not have a crack in it. The process of removing the shaft and installing  modern  equipment, most likely of a different diameter, alters the alignment of the shaft to the head changing the  Play ability dramatically. My Toney Penna master models have the center of the shaft aligned with the with the center of the head. Anyone named   Penna NEVER   Used a club that was  reshafted. 
CHARLEY PENNA

[Hickory4ever]

7 hours ago, xgolfx said:

The number one crucial procedure to make a fine persimmon Driver is the process referred to as necking.

 

The reason why I do not prefer to see a vintage club reshafted is this delic ate  process. When you take the whipping off  it is rare to find one that does not have a crack in it. The process of removing the shaft and installing  modern  equipment, most likely of a different diameter, alters the alignment of the shaft to the head changing the  Play ability dramatically. My Toney Penna master models have the center of the shaft aligned with the with the center of the head. Anyone named   Penna NEVER   Used a club that was  reshafted. 
CHARLEY PENNA

I agree wholeheartedly. I will never have a vintage wood reshafted for that reason. Personally, I just keep my eye out for clubs with regular flex.