LIV with some big money announcements (*** TOPIC MODERATED ***)

[bscinstnct]

Hideki! Of course, now Cam gonna want $400MM.

 

Unlimited cash 💰 yo! 🤣

 

 

 

[idrive]

Who would like to wager that liv's site will end up saying

 

"SOLD OUT"

 

My question is will they be referring to the tournament or the players?

[Krt22]

29 minutes ago, idrive said:

Who would like to wager that liv's site will end up saying

 

"SOLD OUT"

 

My question is will they be referring to the tournament or the players?

The merch tents were picked clean! What they didn't say is there was only 1 with limited stock on hand. It's all how you spin it

[aus10KC]

24 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

Hideki! Of course, now Cam gonna want $400MM.

 

Unlimited cash 💰 yo! 🤣

 

 

 

 

 

That is the problem with these contracts, the next top player is going to want the same or more. Do you just turn off the spigot at some point? Top 10/50 players is not a static thing, so to constantly have the top players will be a constant competition between them for money. 

 

GN talks like free agency is a good thing, for the player it is. But GN should be thinking like a CEO, not a player. Is it good to have these contract precedents set like this? There is a reason why MLB teams would manipulate service time of younger players, to delay their free agency. Same with NFL and franchise Tag, to delay free agency. 

 

If he Hideki contract is true, LIV will have spent probably 1.25 billion for players and still not have a top 10 player (He was ranked as low as 10th within the past 12 months). 

[bscinstnct]

1 hour ago, aus10KC said:

 

That is funny, I almost thought about trying to get a free ticket off a player then selling on secondary market. Good to know my efforts would have been wasted.

 

I wonder if all these $4 tickets are the free ones for promos, they must be. 

 

But then you sell them for $4?! And do what, but some Taco Bell?

 

MBS be like,

 

I spend a billion dollars on buying these golfers and the tickets are $4 and there’s a big 9/11 family protest right up the block from the event?!

 

I think he gonna be mad. 

Edited July 25, 2022 by bscinstnct

[idrive]

I wonder if the guys that signed for far less will have any animosity.  They're certainly going to have a talk to their agents about it.

 

This would put Cam's deal at $500 mil?  

 

At this point I also wonder if many are just going to turn their back on all of this as it's just become total absurdity. I will never support of this. I'll play my 3-4 times a week same as I do know and find something else to fall asleep to on Sunday afternoon.

[mitchl]

3 hours ago, aus10KC said:

 

How is it fair to 1 group that plays in a competitive tour, 72 holes, large fields, qualifiers ect, whereas the 2nd group is only 48 players, 54 holes, no cut, no qualifiers ect ie exhibition tour? 

 

And I'm sure you'll mention other tours are 54 holes, that is very popular among LIV defenders. Those events that are 54 holes are developmental tours, and while they are 54 holes, they have large fields, qualifiers ect. Is LIV a developmental tour?

 

OWGR has a standard that is set for a reason, to determine the best golfers in championship golf. It wasn't just made up to keep LIV out, it has been around way before LIV was in existence. 

here is why it is fair, and why at some point LIV will get ranked I believe…

the Limited field limits the strength of field.   Look at FedEx Cup events… the BMW with 70 players will have a stronger strength of field rating than the Tour championship with 30… even though those 30 probably average much better ranks than the 70.   But each player inside the top 200 adds to the strength of field, so more players = more strength.

the 3m had just about nobody, but the number of players brought the strength close to where LIV Bedminster is.   But a PGA event with a full field for the strong tournaments- the players, the memorial, bay hill, etc…. Those have 3,4,5 or more times the strength of field than any LIV will have.   
So where strength of field would bring in 14-20 points for first place in ranking in LIV, in the big field PGA events, it will deliver 40,50,60 or more points to first place.   In LIV after 5th place or so, it gets negligible, but in the PGA, you’re still getting significant points through the first 15-20 places.
 

And, just like any other tourney, only around half the field get any points…. So come in the bottom 24 in LIV and you get money, but no ranking help.

 

then you have a discount applied for 54 holes, and likely one for no cut.   
 

the result is that playing in the big league with lots of players if you win a tournament, or even place well, you’ll move up a couple spots or more.   In LIV, winning might move you up a spot or two, but coming in at 2 or lower won’t do much.

 

[GrandStranded]

1 hour ago, woodriff said:

At this point LIV is loading up for next year. This year exhibition. Maybe next year 72 holes. No too sure what happens with the team thing. 

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by john myrbch

[aus10KC]

7 minutes ago, mitchl said:

here is why it is fair, and why at some point LIV will get ranked I believe…

the Limited field limits the strength of field.   Look at FedEx Cup events… the BMW with 70 players will have a stronger strength of field rating than the Tour championship with 30… even though those 30 probably average much better ranks than the 70.   But each player inside the top 200 adds to the strength of field, so more players = more strength.

the 3m had just about nobody, but the number of players brought the strength close to where LIV Bedminster is.   But a PGA event with a full field for the strong tournaments- the players, the memorial, bay hill, etc…. Those have 3,4,5 or more times the strength of field than any LIV will have.   
So where strength of field would bring in 14-20 points for first place in ranking in LIV, in the big field PGA events, it will deliver 40,50,60 or more points to first place.   In LIV after 5th place or so, it gets negligible, but in the PGA, you’re still getting significant points through the first 15-20 places.
 

And, just like any other tourney, only around half the field get any points…. So come in the bottom 24 in LIV and you get money, but no ranking help.

 

then you have a discount applied for 54 holes, and likely one for no cut.   
 

the result is that playing in the big league with lots of players if you win a tournament, or even place well, you’ll move up a couple spots or more.   In LIV, winning might move you up a spot or two, but coming in at 2 or lower won’t do much.

 

 

Totally agree with all of this, if LIV does get points with their format as is, the points have to be discounted to account for these things that make it a less competitive tour. Which means either way LIV players are going to have a tough time staying in the top 50 which is what is needed for majors exemptions if not already exempted from being a past champion. There are going to be consequence for playing in a closed shop.

[Krt22]

10 minutes ago, idrive said:

I wonder if the guys that signed for far less will have any animosity.  They're certainly going to have a talk to their agents about it.

 

This would put Cam's deal at $500 mil?  

 

At this point I also wonder if many are just going to turn their back on all of this as it's just become total absurdity. I will never support of this. I'll play my 3-4 times a week same as I do know and find something else to fall asleep to on Sunday afternoon.

What exactly are their agents going to do? 

 

But you are right, they are essentially building a card castle. When it comes to the guaranteed money aspect, there can only be a hand full of guys at the top and it won't take a lot for everything to come falling down. You can no longer play your way to the top, so you either accept your place on the totem pole or you leave.

[theodoreb]

3 hours ago, aus10KC said:

 

How is it fair to 1 group that plays in a competitive tour, 72 holes, large fields, qualifiers ect, whereas the 2nd group is only 48 players, 54 holes, no cut, no qualifiers ect ie exhibition tour? 

 

And I'm sure you'll mention other tours are 54 holes, that is very popular among LIV defenders. Those events that are 54 holes are developmental tours, and while they are 54 holes, they have large fields, qualifiers ect. Is LIV a developmental tour?

 

OWGR has a standard that is set for a reason, to determine the best golfers in championship golf. It wasn't just made up to keep LIV out, it has been around way before LIV was in existence. 

I don't disagree with anything you have said, but you cant just leave out the LIV golfers and not give them some points just because you don't like the tour that they joined.  If you still want to go ahead and not give them any point, you public will know that the current ratings system is broken and does not account for golfers that they want to watch and will be competing in the majors. It's just good for Golf to award points towards one group and not another.  My your logic Cam Smith will go from the #2 ranked golfer in the world to #50 just because he does not play in your preferred tournaments and the sports world will immediately say the current points system is broken.

[bighitlama]

10 hours ago, Hankshank said:

Think this touches on something maybe important. What is the entertainment of tour golf? For sure, seeing guys making good golf shots, but way more the drama. The importance for the players of making results, to win. If you happened to see the last day of the DP tour Cazoo event on Hillside, you could really see how the play mattered, and Ramsay was absolutely overjoyed winning. That is a big part in what makes me pay for golf channels.
 

I think LIV has a real challenge making drama an ingredient. It should really hurt for a player not to win when in contention. Just a show for the money… that will Imho take away the interest in the sport, and if so, one wonder if the sheiks still see an interest in shuffling money on top players. 

 

I think playing for a Four Million dollar first prize is creating plenty of drama.   More so than for a trophy and 1.2mm for say... the John Deere.

[theodoreb]

3 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

As of now it's an Invitational Series of Exhibitions......

So you continue to say. But the golfers that joined LIV and the fans don't look at it that way.

 

Also the PGA Tour does not seem to agree with you either. If they did, they would not be dropping their pants to make changes and come up with new ideas to stop losing players.

[Ezgolfer]

6 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

What exactly are their agents going to do? 

 

But you are right, they are essentially building a card castle. When it comes to the guaranteed money aspect, there can only be a hand full of guys at the top and it won't take a lot for everything to come falling down. You can no longer play your way to the top, so you either accept your place on the totem pole or you leave.

Do you think Phil and DJ will sit tight watching 400 million contract for Hideki. Sounds absurd ..

 

 

[Ghost of Snead]

5 minutes ago, theodoreb said:

I don't disagree with anything you have said, but you cant just leave out the LIV golfers and not give them some points just because you don't like the tour that they joined.  If you still want to go ahead and not give them any point, you public will know that the current ratings system is broken and does not account for golfers that they want to watch and will be competing in the majors. It's just good for Golf to award points towards one group and not another.  My your logic Cam Smith will go from the #2 ranked golfer in the world to #50 just because he does not play in your preferred tournaments and the sports world will immediately say the current points system is broken.

 

Why would Cam remain #2 in the world playing exhibition golf with substandard fields ? 

[bighitlama]

7 hours ago, aus10KC said:

 

Would any of those even qualify with points for the Ryder Cup?

 

Of course not, it would merely point out how much stronger a team LIV could produce compared to the Euros.   Having the PGAT back down to the challenge would be a bonus!   

[aus10KC]

3 minutes ago, theodoreb said:

I don't disagree with anything you have said, but you cant just leave out the LIV golfers and not give them some points just because you don't like the tour that they joined.  If you still want to go ahead and not give them any point, you public will know that the current ratings system is broken and does not account for golfers that they want to watch and will be competing in the majors. It's just good for Golf to award points towards one group and not another.  My your logic Cam Smith will go from the #2 ranked golfer in the world to #50 just because he does not play in your preferred tournaments and the sports world will immediately say the current points system is broken.

 

LIV is an exhibition closed shop that doesn't meet the requirements of championship golf. You mention the majors, they are part of determining OWGR but they should accept something lesser than championship golf standard they themselves have helped set? If Cam wants to go to LIV, it's for the money, nothing else.  You think DJ cares about his OWGR? He is making bank, has exemptions into the majors for being a recent masters champ. 

 

I completely disagree that it would break OWGR, these players have chosen to play in an exhibition that is not championship golf. They are no longer playing by the standards set.

[bscinstnct]

Ahhh, I assume this is where all the $4 tickets are from

 

Man, comments to Lee are not too positive. 
 

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by bscinstnct

[SirFuego]

2 hours ago, leezer99 said:

With a stroke of genius, LIV Golf has listed Charles Howell III under the I's.

 

I think what makes it more interesting is that Hennie Du Plessis is still listed under "D" instead of "P", so whatever they are using to alphabetizing the names isn't just blindly taking the first letter after the last space in the name.  But I guess that's an improvement over the first event(s) when the player directory was organized alphabetically by their FIRST name?

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by SirFuego
Misspelling

[aus10KC]

28 minutes ago, bighitlama said:

 

I think playing for a Four Million dollar first prize is creating plenty of drama.   More so than for a trophy and 1.2mm for say... the John Deere.

 

JT Poston was basically in tears after he won the JDC. He got into the Masters and a 2 year exemption on tour, Fedex cup points and of course I'm sure the cash was a nice bonus too.

 

 

[Krt22]

23 minutes ago, Ezgolfer said:

Do you think Phil and DJ will sit tight watching 400 million contract for Hideki. Sounds absurd ..

 

 

They signed the contract, they have to play or they don't get paid, that is what happens when you sign for guaranteed easy money. There is no other tour offering that kind of coin so they really have no leverage to "take their talents" elsewhere. Phil is barely a draw at this point, it's pretty clear he was largely chosen to be the sacrificial lamb in all this.  I think he will quietly take his blood money and run once his contract is up. DJ seems like a pretty simple guy, I think he will do the same. 

[BottleCap]

45 minutes ago, aus10KC said:

 

 

That is the problem with these contracts, the next top player is going to want the same or more. Do you just turn off the spigot at some point? Top 10/50 players is not a static thing, so to constantly have the top players will be a constant competition between them for money. 

 

GN talks like free agency is a good thing, for the player it is. But GN should be thinking like a CEO, not a player. Is it good to have these contract precedents set like this? There is a reason why MLB teams would manipulate service time of younger players, to delay their free agency. Same with NFL and franchise Tag, to delay free agency. 

 

If he Hideki contract is true, LIV will have spent probably 1.25 billion for players and still not have a top 10 player (He was ranked as low as 10th within the past 12 months). 

It looks like they may be looking at it on the basis of national markets at this time...Hideki brings the Japanese market and he may be the Japanese market, which is considerably more money than the Aussie market, which has many golfers that could bring the market.

 

I'm wondering what a signing bonus for the Chinese market may look like, the only Chinese golfer I'm aware of is Hao Tong Li.

[1t2golf]

2 hours ago, leezer99 said:

With a stroke of genius, LIV Golf has listed Charles Howell III under the I's.

 

It was originally under the T's.

[Titleist99]

32 minutes ago, theodoreb said:

So you continue to say. But the golfers that joined LIV and the fans don't look at it that way.

 

Also the PGA Tour does not seem to agree with you either. If they did, they would not be dropping their pants to make changes and come up with new ideas to stop losing players.

Let me be  clear......the team54 players do not play against any of the top 20 players in the world.

Team54 Exhibition play this funky, closed field, three day shotgun format.

Lastly, the PGATOUR changes were in the works long before Team54 stole its ideas from the Premier Golf League.

 

^^The players are Saudi Golf league employees now they're expected to tow the company line...

[aus10KC]

29 minutes ago, bighitlama said:

 

Of course not, it would merely point out how much stronger a team LIV could produce compared to the Euros.   Having the PGAT back down to the challenge would be a bonus!   

 

Euro side - Rahm, Rory, Fitzpatrick, Hovland, Fleetwood, Hatton, Rose, Lowry... I think I might take the Euro side over team LIV. 

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

Say it ain't so - a move to 72-hole stroke events with a cut even ? Like the PGA Tour ? 

Just when I was thinking about buying a team....LOL!

[maowv]

2 hours ago, leezer99 said:

With a stroke of genius, LIV Golf has listed Charles Howell III under the I's.

This.

It's posts like this that keeps me interested in reading this chain of comments. 

Not too biting but with just the right amount of irreverence. A bit of John Cleese wit on full display.

 

Well done, Leezer99. Well done.

Edited July 25, 2022 by maowv

[joe perry]

Could the PGA tour use the money in the bank (250 million)  and use it in some way to reward the top players and maybe give the lesser players something like 10,000 per tournament to cover their travel/caddie costs ????

 

in my estimation Speith Thomas Rory Scheffler are a lock to stay on the pga tour 

 

if you gave the top 15 players like 8 million each which in no way competes with LIV money but shows that the tour is willing to give all the money they have to reward loyalty going forward would that be enough to keep

 

Cam Smith 

Xander 

Lowry 

Finau 

Rahm

Fitzpatrick 

Cam Young 

Hovland 

Morikawa

Cantlay

 

 

I don’t see how LIV can be relevant or compete for TV viewership if you have all the names I mentioned

 

All the pga your needs to do is keep the most likeable and popular players and tie down the best player from Oz  in Cam Smith and a few key European players like Lowry, Fitzpatrick, Rahm and Hovland to go along with the 5 best/most popular Americans in Speith, Thomas, Morikawa, Xander and Scheffler

 

i mean LIV is going to some bogus courses in the USA - I really feel all the pga tour needs to do is stop LIV from getting any of the top young likeable Europeans and stop LIV from getting  Cam Smith 

 

if the pga tour can do that then with the tournaments, courses and cities they have relationships with then I think it is game over for the average fan on which one they will support

 

I like DJ but in no circumstances will I be seeking out on an internet stream to watch him play Rich Harvest Farms or some non historical course in the Middle East - I would rather watch someone I feel more neutral about in Scheffler win at Colonial or Riviera or East Lake

 

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by joe perry

[Hankshank]

1 hour ago, bighitlama said:

 

I think playing for a Four Million dollar first prize is creating plenty of drama.   More so than for a trophy and 1.2mm for say... the John Deere.

That depends on the second prize momey, if that is 3,5 mill no big deal 1st or 2nd, if 1 mill they will care money wise. Don’t know if winning as such in a LIV tournament will matter for the winners, as for Ramsay, Tiger or Bland, winning on the old tours.

Edited July 25, 2022 by Hankshank

[aus10KC]

This LIV stuff is wild... It's basically being seen as a cash grab, lol.

 

Barkley giving GN the ultimatum 

 

https://twitter.com/dpshow/status/1551584369210433536?t=CMW9WKMOkmxUYkfEMPn41w&s=19