Newbie AJGA Question

[ncalgolf]

Been reading about AJGA - if you wanted to make a run at a high ranking what age would you get them going? - I see they can start playing at 12 but at such a young age looks like it would cost a fortune to travel and to grind it out for so many years seems kind of wild to me.   what would you consider the most important ages to play well, rankings, college etc?

 

I have read the other threads on if it is really necessary or not to play ajga but if we do choose to do the whole AJGA thing in the future was curious on peoples thoughts.

[Abh159]

You'll get varying opinions on this subject and mine may or may not provide a specific answer to your question (what age?), but I'm going to give it to you anyway...

 

In my opinion, you shouldn't be entering / playing in tournaments you cannot be completive in. You should start off (regardless of age) playing local events. Once you can consistently win and/or finish high in those then you can move on to regional events. Once you can consistently win and/or finish high in those then you can move on to national events (AJGA and similar).

 

It's okay to "push the limits" every now and then by entering a tournament that might be beyond your skill level. However, entering AJGA events only to finish near the bottom of the pack every time is a waste of both money and time. 

[ncalgolf]

35 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

You'll get varying opinions on this subject and mine may or may not provide a specific answer to your question (what age?), but I'm going to give it to you anyway...

 

In my opinion, you shouldn't be entering / playing in tournaments you cannot be completive in. You should start off (regardless of age) playing local events. Once you can consistently win and/or finish high in those then you can move on to regional events. Once you can consistently win and/or finish high in those then you can move on to national events (AJGA and similar).

 

It's okay to "push the limits" every now and then by entering a tournament that might be beyond your skill level. However, entering AJGA events only to finish near the bottom of the pack every time is a waste of both money and time. 

Thanks for the thoughts and it totally makes sense...if you can compete and do well at a younger age when would you consider "go time"  and make a hard push 8th grade, Freshman, sophmore year?

[heavy_hitter]

This post is strictly for males.

 

At 12 the likelihood of getting into any AJGA tournament is slim to none.  The stars from USKG is not enough to get you into a Jr. All Star event.  To get into AJGA the kid has to Win and place top 10% in fields meeting the AJGA requirements.  This is not an easy task and even harder if you live in Cali, Texas, or Florida.  I have seen kids with AJGA tags and shake my head because they are paying for a membership without the understanding that there is no way they can get into the events.  14-15 for most kids is when they need to really start looking at Jr. All Star events.  13 if they are elite.  When I say Elite they are winning 13-15 year old events and competing in 16-18 year old events.  To get into an AJGA open the kid basically needs a minimum of 30 stars.  Might be able to get into a field in an obscure place with less.  

[Abh159]

1 minute ago, ncalgolf said:

Thanks for the thoughts and it totally makes sense...if you can compete and do well at a younger age when would you consider "go time"  and make a hard push 8th grade, Freshman, sophmore year?

 

There is not right answer to that question unfortunately. Examples below are real life situations from my past. These go to show that there isn't a one size fits all way to go about jr golf. You can take separate paths and end up in the same place. 

 

Myself - I started playing national events (AJGA and other major tournaments / invitationals) my freshman year of high school so I was 14 at the time. I ended up playing well in most (won 1 when I was 16) and qualified for the US Jr Am a few times as well. I went on to play for a top-25 DI program. Played my 4 years and then went to grad school and started my career. I never really had serious aspirations to try and play professionally. Those guys are on a whole other level 😉.

 

One of my best friends growing up (same age) - He didn't start playing national events until he was 16 about to be 17. He ended up winning a few and also went to a top-25 DI program. He went on to play on the PGA Tour for a few years before struggling to keep his card. Now he bounces between the KF tour and Latino Tour.

[tiger1873]

Trying to do AJGA is a waste if money for a 12 year old boy or girl.

Go out and play regional events once they hit 12 and try and do a few 2 day events.

When it comes to rankings and even colleg recruiting i have found the only thing that matters is showing you can do well in a variety of events.

 

if your breaking par and can play around the country with a great score you will have no problem playing where you want to play.  
 

Agja is pretty simple  just go out and enter qualifiers and win and you get to play.  Do well enough you become exempt.

 

Collecting performance Stars at non ajga events is almost useless because you never get enough and can spend them faster then you get them.

. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by tiger1873

[Tannerbug33]

My son just turned 14 and not started playing AJGA. Plan to start next year. One thing we started this year is playing tournaments at courses that host a AJGA events with the hope of getting into one of then next year. That way if we do we will have some tournament experience on that course. 

[heavy_hitter]

Just so Everyone understands the difficulty to get into AJGA Open events.  Here are the performance stars needed to get into every event already played this year with state.  It doesn't vary much from state to state unless it is somewhere like Wisconsin.  These are for the boys.  Summer months you will see the minimum needed around 20 because there are so many other really big one off events going on.

 

Spot X - Fl  58

 

Leezer Adam Scott-Ca  Fully Exempt

 

Sergio-Tx  34

 

KJ Choi-Tx  33

 

Sung Hyun-Fl 53

 

Ping- Az  53

 

Cranebrake-Al  36

 

12 Oaks-NC  30 

 

Rome- GA  43

 

Huntsville-Al  31

 

Sam Burns-Ga  45

 

 

Edited May 31, 2022 by heavy_hitter

[rlee323]

If you have a local AJGA, I think doing the qualifier is worth it for the experience initially.  I would treat it in a similar way to the USGA junior qualifying or PGA junior qualifying  - another data point to see where your junior is with his/her development and for them to see how much improvement they need to do to achieve their golf goals.  Not a fan of chasing AJGA stars (as you say, an expensive proposition) until your junior is maxing out all the other local tournament opportunities.  

[leezer99]

1 hour ago, heavy_hitter said:

Just so Everyone understands the difficulty to get into AJGA Open events.  Here are the performance stars needed to get into every event already played this year with state.  It doesn't not vary much from state to state unless it is somewhere like Wisconsin.  These are for the boys.  Summer months you will see the minimum needed around 20 because there are so many other really big one off events going on.

 

Spot X - Fl  58

 

Leezer Adam Scott-Ca  Fully Exempt

 

Sergio-Tx  34

 

KJ Choi-Tx  33

 

Sung Hyun-Fl 53

 

Ping- Az  53

 

Cranebrake-Al  36

 

12 Oaks-NC  30 

 

Rome- GA  43

 

Huntsville-Al  31

 

Sam Burns-Ga  45

 

 

F Adam Scott

[DevilDog]

On 5/27/2022 at 12:48 PM, heavy_hitter said:

Just so Everyone understands the difficulty to get into AJGA Open events.  Here are the performance stars needed to get into every event already played this year with state.  It doesn't not vary much from state to state unless it is somewhere like Wisconsin.  These are for the boys.  Summer months you will see the minimum needed around 20 because there are so many other really big one off events going on.

 

Spot X - Fl  58

 

Leezer Adam Scott-Ca  Fully Exempt

 

Sergio-Tx  34

 

KJ Choi-Tx  33

 

Sung Hyun-Fl 53

 

Ping- Az  53

 

Cranebrake-Al  36

 

12 Oaks-NC  30 

 

Rome- GA  43

 

Huntsville-Al  31

 

Sam Burns-Ga  45

 

 

This right here.  My son played in some AJGA events but it is TOUGH to get in many of them.  Only way to guarantee entry is do well in the ones you do get in and gain points.  Even Southeast Junior Tour went to a points based system this year because of the number of kids entering.  Had to get control of it.  Best events to garner attention are playing State Junior tournaments and doing well.  There are several junior tours but AJGA has a LOT of kids who play full time and are home schooled to do so.  Last one held in my area in AL, had kids coming from California even to play.  

[Wasted_Talent]

I would think the AJGA should be reserved for an older age.  As mentioned they are pretty tough get in to.  My Godchild won an AJGA all-star event in College Station and did not get full exemption.  He later finished in the top 5 of an event to get full status. 

[heavy_hitter]

I am going to add this on.  Earning AJGA stars also favors kids that play a lot of tournament golf cough cough have more money to play in tournaments.  AJGA stars are expensive to come buy unless fully exempt.  My guess if put a value on them around $100 a star.

Edited May 31, 2022 by heavy_hitter

[Pinewood Golfer]

7 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

I am going to add this on.  Earning AJGA stars also favors kids that play a lot of tournament golf cough cough have more money to play in tournaments.  AJGA stars are expensive to come buy unless fully exempt.  My guess if put a value on them around $100 a star.

This is the part that’s infuriating. I have a son that just turned 14. We did the USKG local to get those 4 stars—cost there is about $55/star. 
 

he will also play in PGAJR Q’s and US JR AM Q’s because they are generous star givers. Then, he’ll play in plenty of events to give himself the opportunity to earn stars. 
 

if he earns enough this season so that we can pick and choose (as opposed to jet setting and breaking the bank) JAS events next year then we will do them. By my math he will need to have about 10 stars to do that. 
 

but I’ll never go all over buying stars through AJGA Q’s to try and back door our way into a summertime JAS or low level open. If that’s the path you have to take then you aren’t really good enough to have success when you do enter them 

[leezer99]

17 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

I am going to add this on.  Earning AJGA stars also favors kids that play a lot of tournament golf cough cough have more money to play in tournaments.  AJGA stars are expensive to come buy unless fully exempt.  My guess if put a value on them around $100 a star.

 

My friends kid is fully exempt now and he was saying it cost him $1,000 per star.

[leezer99]

9 hours ago, Pinewood Golfer said:

This is the part that’s infuriating. I have a son that just turned 14. We did the USKG local to get those 4 stars—cost there is about $55/star. 
 

he will also play in PGAJR Q’s and US JR AM Q’s because they are generous star givers. Then, he’ll play in plenty of events to give himself the opportunity to earn stars. 
 

if he earns enough this season so that we can pick and choose (as opposed to jet setting and breaking the bank) JAS events next year then we will do them. By my math he will need to have about 10 stars to do that. 
 

but I’ll never go all over buying stars through AJGA Q’s to try and back door our way into a summertime JAS or low level open. If that’s the path you have to take then you aren’t really good enough to have success when you do enter them 

 

The qualifiers are the easiest way to get stars IMO.  

[DevilDog]

The cost per star shows how much of a moneymaker these junior tours are for the people who run them.  Plenty of kids are good players in the AJGA and all have the PGA Tour dream.  Seen a kid from my home club and some on the way who should make the Tour and they don't even play AJGA unless it is local.  They play as many men's tournaments as they can get in and USGA amateur events including Jr Am.  Cost is less, travel cost is usually less since many men's tournaments can be found in area, and they get noticed by colleges.  Unless you're "can't miss", most top D-1 schools won't take a kid right out of high school.  D-2 can be picky too with so many kids playing now.  JUCO and D-3 is where many start and transfer if they perform to a D-1 or D-2 school.  

 

Also, have talked to many D-1 coaches and they all say the same thing; they recruit distance first.  They are looking for 310+ off the tee for boys (I don't know about girls side) and fairly accurate.  Coaches will tell you a kid can't be taught distance.  It's like baseball, either a pitcher can throw mid-90s or not.  Can't teach a kid to throw that fast and by same token can't teach a 275 off the tee player to hit it 320.   They can teach kids course management and how to get the ball in the hole.  

 

My son got attention last year at the Men's State Am when he was hitting tee shots 330+ the whole weekend and made cut as a 17  year old.  He was paired with the eventual winner first round and out drove him every hole.  His weakness also showed which is wedge play but several D-1 coaches in attendance said they can get him better on that.  Got him a scholarship based on length. Kid he plays with a lot that is quite good is not getting looked at much because he's only about 290 off the tee.  Push tees back on a course, which they do in college, and he will struggle and coaches know it. 

 

Whole point of this long screed is that there are many ways to get noticed for a kid and for a boy length is the first trait coaches look for in a player.  After that, scoring because they can cut strokes off a kid by working them hard on scoring clubs.  This is the reality of junior golfers moving on to college golf.  

[heavy_hitter]

6 hours ago, leezer99 said:

 

My friends kid is fully exempt now and he was saying it cost him $1,000 per star.

If you add in hotel rooms etc., it certainly can.

[heavy_hitter]

5 hours ago, DevilDog said:

The cost per star shows how much of a moneymaker these junior tours are for the people who run them.  Plenty of kids are good players in the AJGA and all have the PGA Tour dream.  Seen a kid from my home club and some on the way who should make the Tour and they don't even play AJGA unless it is local.  They play as many men's tournaments as they can get in and USGA amateur events including Jr Am.  Cost is less, travel cost is usually less since many men's tournaments can be found in area, and they get noticed by colleges.  Unless you're "can't miss", most top D-1 schools won't take a kid right out of high school.  D-2 can be picky too with so many kids playing now.  JUCO and D-3 is where many start and transfer if they perform to a D-1 or D-2 school.  

 

Also, have talked to many D-1 coaches and they all say the same thing; they recruit distance first.  They are looking for 310+ off the tee for boys (I don't know about girls side) and fairly accurate.  Coaches will tell you a kid can't be taught distance.  It's like baseball, either a pitcher can throw mid-90s or not.  Can't teach a kid to throw that fast and by same token can't teach a 275 off the tee player to hit it 320.   They can teach kids course management and how to get the ball in the hole.  

 

My son got attention last year at the Men's State Am when he was hitting tee shots 330+ the whole weekend and made cut as a 17  year old.  He was paired with the eventual winner first round and out drove him every hole.  His weakness also showed which is wedge play but several D-1 coaches in attendance said they can get him better on that.  Got him a scholarship based on length. Kid he plays with a lot that is quite good is not getting looked at much because he's only about 290 off the tee.  Push tees back on a course, which they do in college, and he will struggle and coaches know it. 

 

Whole point of this long screed is that there are many ways to get noticed for a kid and for a boy length is the first trait coaches look for in a player.  After that, scoring because they can cut strokes off a kid by working them hard on scoring clubs.  This is the reality of junior golfers moving on to college golf.  

So in my kids resume I need to add in stock distances?  

 

He played in state Jr. Am Qualifier with a kid from a pretty good D2 school.  Outdrove this kid all day.  The young man told him he struggled at NCAA championships because it is tough for him to get around on 7000+ yard courses.

 

My kid carries 290ish with a total well over 300.

[heavy_hitter]

17 hours ago, Pinewood Golfer said:

This is the part that’s infuriating. I have a son that just turned 14. We did the USKG local to get those 4 stars—cost there is about $55/star. 
 

he will also play in PGAJR Q’s and US JR AM Q’s because they are generous star givers. Then, he’ll play in plenty of events to give himself the opportunity to earn stars. 
 

if he earns enough this season so that we can pick and choose (as opposed to jet setting and breaking the bank) JAS events next year then we will do them. By my math he will need to have about 10 stars to do that. 
 

but I’ll never go all over buying stars through AJGA Q’s to try and back door our way into a summertime JAS or low level open. If that’s the path you have to take then you aren’t really good enough to have success when you do enter them 

The other problem with the star system is it is harder to earn in Cali, Texas, and Florida.  In other states it is more favorable to earn stars.  By JGS rankings my kid is ranked really solid in his class.  Kids often get into AJGA events from other states that are ranked worse but have more stars because the competition in those states is weaker.

Edited June 1, 2022 by heavy_hitter

[machine_cat]

20 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

The other problem with the star system is it is harder to earn in Cali, Texas, and Florida.  In other states it is more favorable to earn stars.  By JGS rankings my kid is ranked really solid in his class.  Kids often get into AJGA events from other states that are ranked worse but have more stars because the competition in those states is weaker.

To be fair, the states except Cali, Texas, and Florida have much less tournaments that are eligible for AJGA stars. My state has one page of PBE scheduled events at AJGA website compared to Cali having 5~6 pages. My neighbor state has only one event in the whole 2022. 

[heavy_hitter]

2 hours ago, machine_cat said:

To be fair, the states except Cali, Texas, and Florida have much less tournaments that are eligible for AJGA stars. My state has one page of PBE scheduled events at AJGA website compared to Cali having 5~6 pages. My neighbor state has only one event in the whole 2022. 

 

Not sure what "to be fair" means.  The argument still holds true.  Can't pick and choose tournaments in Cali, Florida, and Texas just based on the field.  Other tours outside of these states are more or less Regional Tours that will encompass several states.  Just because there are less PBE status events doesn't make it fair.  I mean, the 200th ranked player in Texas would be ranked 20th in a state like Indiana and have a chance to compete for those stars.  In Texas he doesn't have a chance at all.

[rlee323]

Juniors in CA/TX/FL have the benefit of good, competitive local tours.  The more competitive environment obviously hurts those juniors to get into AJGA events. That being said, I would argue that overall, juniors located in those states have more of benefit playing against stronger competition and being able to set a good tournament schedule for less travel costs and not have to be chasing stars like heavy_hitter has mentioned already. I have seen juniors from CA/TX/FL traveling to the northeast to compete at USGA qualifiers and AJGA qualifiers - imagine each family is trying to give their juniors the best playing opportunities as cost effectively as possible.  For organizations with national mandates (USGA/PGA/AJGA), I'm not sure how far they can tweak the process to make it "fair" for everyone though I wish the AJGA would allocate additional slots to juniors with fewer stars to play in their local/nearest AJGA.  

[heavy_hitter]

3 minutes ago, rlee323 said:

Juniors in CA/TX/FL have the benefit of good, competitive local tours.  The more competitive environment obviously hurts those juniors to get into AJGA events. That being said, I would argue that overall, juniors located in those states have more of benefit playing against stronger competition and being able to set a good tournament schedule for less travel costs and not have to be chasing stars like heavy_hitter has mentioned already. I have seen juniors from CA/TX/FL traveling to the northeast to compete at USGA qualifiers and AJGA qualifiers - imagine each family is trying to give their juniors the best playing opportunities as cost effectively as possible.  For organizations with national mandates (USGA/PGA/AJGA), I'm not sure how far they can tweak the process to make it "fair" for everyone though I wish the AJGA would allocate additional slots to juniors with fewer stars to play in their local/nearest AJGA.  

[machine_cat]

4 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

Not sure what "to be fair" means.  The argument still holds true.  Can't pick and choose tournaments in Cali, Florida, and Texas just based on the field.  Other tours outside of these states are more or less Regional Tours that will encompass several states.  Just because there are less PBE status events doesn't make it fair.  I mean, the 200th ranked player in Texas would be ranked 20th in a state like Indiana and have a chance to compete for those stars.  In Texas he doesn't have a chance at all.

I get the point the kids from Cali, Florida, and Texas play better golf than the kids from north. However, the number of stars never indicates how well you play golf.  A from Texas earns less stars than B from Indiana ,when A can access 100 PBE status events and B only can access 20 PBE status events. A can think B play a weaker schedule and B can think he can do better than A if moving to Texas. It will never have a absolutely fair system when Golf can only play in certain weather condition. The first priority for AJGA is  to increase its population instead of selecting the best kids for all its tournaments if AJGA does not want to become a local organization. 

[Pinewood Golfer]

On 6/1/2022 at 7:14 AM, leezer99 said:

 

The qualifiers are the easiest way to get stars IMO.  

Guess it depends. Closest qualifier to my house is 3.5 hours away. To play in, say, 6 of them, I’d have to drive a total of about 60 hours. 
 

what @heavy_hitteris saying is true about them being hard to earn in “big states”. But you also have more opportunities at more reasonable cost. 
 

bottom line is this…if you’re good enough to enjoy success at the AJGA level then you’ll also be good enough to earn the stars through a “normal” schedule to get there. 
 

my son’s only 14 but I’m fortunate to know many dads who have been through this and they’ve all said the same thing about it. Don’t chase it, it’ll come to you when you’re ready

[Pinewood Golfer]

3 hours ago, machine_cat said:

I get the point the kids from Cali, Florida, and Texas play better golf than the kids from north. However, the number of stars never indicates how well you play golf.  A from Texas earns less stars than B from Indiana ,when A can access 100 PBE status events and B only can access 20 PBE status events. A can think B play a weaker schedule and B can think he can do better than A if moving to Texas. It will never have a absolutely fair system when Golf can only play in certain weather condition. The first priority for AJGA is  to increase its population instead of selecting the best kids for all its tournaments if AJGA does not want to become a local organization. 

Remember this….

 

the AJGA doesn’t care about anybody or anything other than the AJGA. Once you understand that then everything else will make sense. 

[heavy_hitter]

9 hours ago, Pinewood Golfer said:

Remember this….

 

the AJGA doesn’t care about anybody or anything other than the AJGA. Once you understand that then everything else will make sense. 

[DevilDog]

On 6/1/2022 at 2:06 PM, heavy_hitter said:

So in my kids resume I need to add in stock distances?  

 

He played in state Jr. Am Qualifier with a kid from a pretty good D2 school.  Outdrove this kid all day.  The young man told him he struggled at NCAA championships because it is tough for him to get around on 7000+ yard courses.

 

My kid carries 290ish with a total well over 300.

 

I would do this based on what I learned from college coaches.  Create a webpage for him.  Post videos of his swing with wedge, 8 iron, 5 iron, 3 iron or hybrid, 3 wood and driver both face on and down the line. Make them quality videos like HD or better and from a tripod.  Post other extracurricular activities, GPA, objectives, goals, upcoming events as well as past event results.  Post screenshots of launch monitor data with the same clubs aforementioned.  Provide contact info by email and set up a specific email for golf only.  Set up a Twitter account for golf only and follow all the schools interested in and post only pertinent golf information.  

 

Playing in Men's tournaments can get more notice than junior tournaments if he does well.  That's how my son got on the radar.  Played in Men's State Am and was bombing it that week and played well making the cut and finishing top 15.  No one knew him before that.  He followed that up with another Men's event where college coaches attended.  Was bombing it there too.  Only one to hit a 590 yard par 5 in two that week and did it all 3 days of the event.  

 

Remember, grades matter too.  Coaches don't want a kid that will struggle academically.  Work on wedge game a LOT.  The top college players are deadly 125 in with wedges and around the greens.  Work on putting a LOT.  Have to get the ball in the hole.  My son works hard on these things.  I also got him playing in a group at our home course with a lot of former college and even some former professional players (got their am status back after several years).  Can learn from watching their approach to the course and how they score.  They have helped my kid tremendously.  Got him from a 2 handicap to a +3 in less than a year.  

[mrshinsa]

AJGA has recently changed their star system so that particpation does not deduct any stars.

What has everyone's experience been?

My observations has been that this puts newer incoming kids at a disadvantage and the veterans an advantage.