PGA Tour non-profit status

[Soloman1]

15 hours ago, ray9898 said:

 

It is baffling.  No matter how many times it is put out in simple terms people will continue to make inaccurate connections like they are a charity. 

 

 

You keep repeating the same thing and have insinuated that others are stupid. We dummies get it that it is not required to give to charity, but there is more context to consider.

 

1. Look at the PGA Tour tax return. It has more words about its charitable function and contribution to communities than it does about its function as a business league. And by the way, the PGA Tour claims its mission is to promote professional golf worldwide.

 

2. The PGA Tour likes to act like light. It’s a particle (promoting professional golf) when it suits the purpose and like a wave (giving to charity) when it suits the purpose.

 

3. In 2018 when Congress was proposing changes to tax exemption for sports leagues, the PGA Tour presented one singular reason why it should be allowed to retain tax-exempt status. That reason was, guess what? That the PGA Tour gives so much money to charity and local charities would be affected if the PGA Tour was not special compare to other sports league operating for profit. The PGA Tour speaks out of both sides of its mouth.

 

4. It is all about the sponsors and the shenanigans used by tournament sponsors regarding taxes. Tournament sponsors (Workday, FedEX, Farmers, Honda, Genesis, etc.) put up the money for the local tournament purse. The Tour contributes a small amount.

 

That money from the sponsor is tax deductible because it is claimed that it is being given to charity. Not because the PGA Tour is a business league promoting professional golf.

 

The shenanigans is that these sponsors claim that they receive no benefit, no additional sales, no additional customers or income from their sponsorship. It’s all going to charity. Kind of hard to believe, but that’s what they do.

 

5. Here’s an example of how the money going to charity is also a shell game. When the networks run a piece on the charity, let’s say St. Judes hospital for kids, they deduct the cost of running the heart wrenching spots as if they are advertisements, reducing the cash given to the charity by half. It’s all business, all the time.

 

There lots of money to be made acting charitable. If the PGA Tour is strictly a business league (which means it must be promoting an industry and not a specific product or service), then it should stop claiming charity to maintain its tax-exempt status.

[SnowbirdTom]

13 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

 

 

You keep repeating the same thing and have insinuated that others are stupid. We dummies get it that it is not required to give to charity, but there is more context to consider.

 

1. Look at the PGA Tour tax return. It has more words about its charitable function and contribution to communities than it does about its function as a business league. And by the way, the PGA Tour claims its mission is to promote professional golf worldwide.

 

2. The PGA Tour likes to act like light. It’s a particle (promoting professional golf) when it suits the purpose and like a wave (giving to charity) when it suits the purpose.

 

3. In 2018 when Congress was proposing changes to tax exemption for sports leagues, the PGA Tour presented one singular reason why it should be allowed to retain tax-exempt status. That reason was, guess what? That the PGA Tour gives so much money to charity and local charities would be affected if the PGA Tour was not special compare to other sports league operating for profit. The PGA Tour speaks out of both sides of its mouth.

 

4. It is all about the sponsors and the shenanigans used by tournament sponsors regarding taxes. Tournament sponsors (Workday, FedEX, Farmers, Honda, Genesis, etc.) put up the money for the local tournament purse. The Tour contributes a small amount.

 

That money from the sponsor is tax deductible because it is claimed that it is being given to charity. Not because the PGA Tour is a business league promoting professional golf.

 

The shenanigans is that these sponsors claim that they receive no benefit, no additional sales, no additional customers or income from their sponsorship. It’s all going to charity. Kind of hard to believe, but that’s what they do.

 

5. Here’s an example of how the money going to charity is also a shell game. When the networks run a piece on the charity, let’s say St. Judes hospital for kids, they deduct the cost of running the heart wrenching spots as if they are advertisements, reducing the cash given to the charity by half. It’s all business, all the time.

 

There lots of money to be made acting charitable. If the PGA Tour is strictly a business league (which means it must be promoting an industry and not a specific product or service), then it should stop claiming charity to maintain its tax-exempt status.

You put out a lot of words just to prove the poster you quoted was correct. And no, I’m not going to try and fix your errors in assumptions.

[Soloman1]

Here, I’ll make it one sentence. I know words are hard.

 

The PGA Tour is not a charity, but uses charity to stay tax exempt.

[ALIF]

39 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

Here, I’ll make it one sentence. I know words are hard.

 

The PGA Tour is not a charity, but uses charity to stay tax exempt.

Fact!!!!!!

[bscinstnct]

1 hour ago, Soloman1 said:

 

 

You keep repeating the same thing and have insinuated that others are stupid. We dummies get it that it is not required to give to charity, but there is more context to consider.

 

1. Look at the PGA Tour tax return. It has more words about its charitable function and contribution to communities than it does about its function as a business league. And by the way, the PGA Tour claims its mission is to promote professional golf worldwide.

 

2. The PGA Tour likes to act like light. It’s a particle (promoting professional golf) when it suits the purpose and like a wave (giving to charity) when it suits the purpose.

 

3. In 2018 when Congress was proposing changes to tax exemption for sports leagues, the PGA Tour presented one singular reason why it should be allowed to retain tax-exempt status. That reason was, guess what? That the PGA Tour gives so much money to charity and local charities would be affected if the PGA Tour was not special compare to other sports league operating for profit. The PGA Tour speaks out of both sides of its mouth.

 

4. It is all about the sponsors and the shenanigans used by tournament sponsors regarding taxes. Tournament sponsors (Workday, FedEX, Farmers, Honda, Genesis, etc.) put up the money for the local tournament purse. The Tour contributes a small amount.

 

That money from the sponsor is tax deductible because it is claimed that it is being given to charity. Not because the PGA Tour is a business league promoting professional golf.

 

The shenanigans is that these sponsors claim that they receive no benefit, no additional sales, no additional customers or income from their sponsorship. It’s all going to charity. Kind of hard to believe, but that’s what they do.

 

5. Here’s an example of how the money going to charity is also a shell game. When the networks run a piece on the charity, let’s say St. Judes hospital for kids, they deduct the cost of running the heart wrenching spots as if they are advertisements, reducing the cash given to the charity by half. It’s all business, all the time.

 

There lots of money to be made acting charitable. If the PGA Tour is strictly a business league (which means it must be promoting an industry and not a specific product or service), then it should stop claiming charity to maintain its tax-exempt status.

 

Great post. But….
 

Take away the tax exempt status and they can probably end up figuring out how to claim they lose money every year. 

 

So, no taxes and no charity ; )

Edited June 25, 2022 by bscinstnct

[Soloman1]

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Great post. But….
 

Take away the tax exempt status and they can probably end up figuring out how to claim they lose money every year. 

 

So, no taxes and no charity ; )

 

Thanks for not starting out with an insult to discuss it. 🙂

 

Just like Hollywood... "Hey, I get a percentage of the net!" There never is any net. 😉

 

The tour has created an incredible business ($400 million+ profit in last four years) and does a great job in putting out golf entertainment for the fans and players.

 

Individual tournaments can be charities and the tour just contracted to provide the entertainers. Sponsors still win. The PGA Tour will not go out of business paying taxes on its profits.

 

I think there could be other creative solutions that would serve the tour and players better earlier than waiting for the IRS, FTC or Congress to address it up again. There is already another bill this year to curb the PGA Tour tax status. Not everything has to black or white. As a for-profit enterprise, it would even more control of its operation and players.

 

The NFL, NBA, MLB seem to be doing OK.

 

Shiny bling like the new HQ and the public fight on "competition," is like asking for regulators to "Look at me!" 

 

Sorry for using too many words.

 

[oikos1]

On 6/24/2022 at 5:26 PM, ray9898 said:

 

It is baffling.  No matter how many times it is put out in simple terms people will continue to make inaccurate connections like they are a charity. 

Perhpas because that's how the PGA Tour insists on portraying themselves year after year:

 

"But questioning the PGA Tour's nonprofit status and charitable giving is disingenuous considering how much it has donated over the years -- far exceeding any tax breaks it may get, PGA spokesman Ty Votaw told "Outside the Lines."

 

He said that the tour's commitment to charity is "unprecedented in professional sports;"

 

https://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/10089803/pga-tour-tax-breaks-help-fuel-giving-which-falls-industry-standards

 

By the way, many of us know the difference.  But when calling a spade a spade, all the sycophants and minions cry foul.

 

[NoFancyUsername.]

Any charitable organisations out there where the head honcho is on $5mill +  .. ??

It ain't a charitable organisation just because they throw crumbs to the poor and hospitals.

[JohnnyCashForever]

20 hours ago, Soloman1 said:

 

 

2. The PGA Tour likes to act like light. It’s a particle (promoting professional golf) when it suits the purpose and like a wave (giving to charity) when it suits the purpose.

 

Perhaps, but I've always thought it acted like water.  Hard as ice, all wet, and full of foggy misdirection.  Or perhaps like lava...or plankton...or like a grumpy platypus, or, oh well, you get the picture.    

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

22 hours ago, Soloman1 said:

2. The PGA Tour likes to act like light. It’s a particle (promoting professional golf) when it suits the purpose and like a wave (giving to charity) when it suits the purpose.

 

 

I applaud you for bringing quantum mechanics into a thread about the PGA Tour👍

 

As a disclaimer, I do not even pretend to know anything about quantum mechanics.

[Chunkitgood]

On 6/25/2022 at 10:17 AM, Soloman1 said:

Here, I’ll make it one sentence. I know words are hard.

 

The PGA Tour is not a charity, but uses charity to stay tax exempt.

 

If the Tour’s non-profit status does in fact facilitate money going to charity, even as a result of business calculation, why shouldn’t the Tour use that fact to support its status?

 

A whole lot of good things happen because of business calculation.

[Chunkitgood]

What the Tour never behaves like is an entity making a profit for itself.

[NMBob]

so they would never do things like call themselves a business on worldwide tv or try to limit  competition lol.   

 

 

 

 

[Thayneil]

On 6/21/2022 at 9:23 PM, andyville99 said:

the article said $8.88 million in 2019 - not bad for running a "non profit"!!

but taxed in full by the recipient

[Thayneil]

On 7/2/2022 at 11:13 AM, Thayneil said:

but taxed in full by the recipient

its actually  one of  the methods of being non profit!

distributing the money to members

 

Golf clubs in the UK are 95% non profit although some of the more famous ones decided to  become companies and not spend all day hiding the money

[andyville99]

Well, with the DOJ now supposedly thinking of investigating the Tour one wonders if that will bring more light on the tax exempt status as well...  that's actually happening quicker than I thought it would!  

[joshrad_golf]

On 6/20/2022 at 10:54 PM, italianstallion said:

The whole non-profit thing is blown out of proportion, but that’s mainly because people don’t understand why it’s a non-profit. Its not a non-profit because it gives money to various charities and it’s not a non-profit because it’s trying to avoid taxes. The PGA TOUR is non-profit because all of its actions are done on behalf of and for the benefit of its members, the Players. After all expenses are paid, everything left over gets parked into investment and pension funds for the PGA TOUR members. This is why Players agree and sign to be members of the PGA TOUR.

 

If you’re a long time PGA TOUR member in good standing, when you retire you stand to make just as much in pension as you did in on course winnings. 

I appreciate this insight. That said, is banning its members really done on behalf of the players?

[joshrad_golf]

On 6/25/2022 at 6:19 PM, oikos1 said:

Perhpas because that's how the PGA Tour insists on portraying themselves year after year:

 

"But questioning the PGA Tour's nonprofit status and charitable giving is disingenuous considering how much it has donated over the years -- far exceeding any tax breaks it may get, PGA spokesman Ty Votaw told "Outside the Lines."

 

He said that the tour's commitment to charity is "unprecedented in professional sports;"

 

https://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/10089803/pga-tour-tax-breaks-help-fuel-giving-which-falls-industry-standards

 

By the way, many of us know the difference.  But when calling a spade a spade, all the sycophants and minions cry foul.

 

The funny part is that the PGA TOUR itself doesn't give all that much money to charity. They help put on these events, and the tournament host companies and others sponsor's do lots of charity functions during the week of the PGA TOUR event, and they are the ones that raise the money for charity and give it to charity. The PGA TOUR does give some money, but most of the money raised for and given to charity is done by companies that Tour has partnered with for the week.

[aus10KC]

10 minutes ago, joshrad_golf said:

I appreciate this insight. That said, is banning its members really done on behalf of the players?

 

Don't they have media partners and corporate sponsors they have to protect, which brings in money thus benefiting the players? That is why they have these rules in place, it isn't arbitrary. And if there are no penalties for breaking these rules, why even have them in place to begin with? 

 

9 minutes ago, joshrad_golf said:

The funny part is that the PGA TOUR itself doesn't give all that much money to charity. They help put on these events, and the tournament host companies and others sponsor's do lots of charity functions during the week of the PGA TOUR event, and they are the ones that raise the money for charity and give it to charity. The PGA TOUR does give some money, but most of the money raised for and given to charity is done by companies that Tour has partnered with for the week.

 

The events they put on raises millions for charities, why does it matter which checking account it came from? 

[PorkChopExpress]

PGAT sounds like the IOC lol

 

The places hosting/sponsors/charities for the tournaments look to earn some revenue but most are losing

 

that would be a concerning model 

[aus10KC]

5 minutes ago, PorkChopExpress said:

PGAT sounds like the IOC lol

 

The places hosting/sponsors/charities for the tournaments look to earn some revenue but most are losing

 

that would be a concerning model 

 

Advertisement/brand awareness is what sponsors are looking for. I'm sure host courses get paid, please prove me wrong. Charities are happy to be getting money and exposure for their cause. 

 

American Express CEO talking about why they are hosting 

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2019/09/10/pga-tour-american-express-palm-springs/

 

Typically communities are happy and excited to have a PGAT event.

[PorkChopExpress]

They certainly are excited as long as they don’t have to host the tourney and pay for it.

 

Most aren’t aware how much money is actually benefited to such causes. 
 

 

 

[PorkChopExpress]

23 minutes ago, aus10KC said:

 

Advertisement/brand awareness is what sponsors are looking for. I'm sure host courses get paid, please prove me wrong. Charities are happy to be getting money and exposure for their cause. 

 

American Express CEO talking about why they are hosting 

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2019/09/10/pga-tour-american-express-palm-springs/

 

Typically communities are happy and excited to have a PGAT event.

AMEX used to be a world golf championship sponsor then dropped that

went to Doral then dropped that

 

if it was so lucrative? Why are they continually dropping their sponsorships? 

[Ghost of Snead]

3 minutes ago, PorkChopExpress said:

They certainly are excited as long as they don’t have to host the tourney and pay for it.

 

Most aren’t aware how much money is actually benefited to such causes. 
 

 

 

 

Clue us in as to the actual numbers contributed to the charities. 

[aus10KC]

5 minutes ago, PorkChopExpress said:

AMEX used to be a world golf championship sponsor then dropped that

went to Doral then dropped that

 

if it was so lucrative? Why are they continually dropping their sponsorships? 

 

AMEX currently sponsors what used to be the Bob Hope. Sounds like they want to continue to be part of the PGAT, no matter the tournament. 

 

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by aus10KC
grammar

[PorkChopExpress]

3 minutes ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

Clue us in as to the actual numbers contributed to the charities. 

Couple local charities received bout 5-10k 

bout a million dollars spread through a hundred non-Profits.

Some by way of ticket sales/giveaways

 

another tour offered 100k, not sure if it would have been 300-500k since only a few non-profits signed up 😊

[PorkChopExpress]

4 minutes ago, aus10KC said:

 

AMEX currently sponsors what used to be the Bob Hope. Sounds like the want to continue to be part of the PGAT, no matter the tournament. 

 

 

but they’re going to smaller and smaller less notable tournaments

Palm Springs other than Florida makes the most sense though

bunch of old people who still think what Amex is 

 

younger generation could care less about Amex and what it used to mean to have one 

[Soloman1]

1. The PGA Tour has “parked” $1 billion of nonprofits. The players are not getting everything left over.

 

2. Advertising and brand awareness for sponsors suggests the business benefits from the sponsorship. The rules are that money given to charity cannot be done with the expectation that the business will have any measurable financial gain from the charity donation.

 

3. The PGA Tour gives only 3% to charity. On one hand it touts itself as a charitable entity for public affairs, but would be ranked at the bottom of all tax-exempt charities. The local tournaments average 16% of revenue, again near the bottom.

 

Try creating a tax-exempt charity and give 3% to charity. Good luck with the IRS.

 

4. The PGA Tour owns 30 private and public access courses. Imagine you’re a privately owned public course in the same area, but you have to pay taxes, but the TPC property doesn’t have to pay local, state or federal taxes.

[aus10KC]

14 minutes ago, PorkChopExpress said:

but they’re going to smaller and smaller less notable tournaments

Palm Springs other than Florida makes the most sense though

bunch of old people who still think what Amex is 

 

younger generation could care less about Amex and what it used to mean to have one 

 

Sounds like you won't be satisfied until they are sponsoring the Masters. 

[PorkChopExpress]

1 minute ago, aus10KC said:

 

Sounds like you won't be satisfied until they are sponsoring the Masters. 

There are bunch of old people there

bahahaha