2024 Recruits?

[golfortennis]

1 hour ago, leezer99 said:

 

Lets not forget that these coaches have to put food on the table and that is shouldered by the 17 and 18 year olds that they recruit. I can't imagine putting my life and livelihood on the back of a teenager.

 

Sure but most of these coaches also have lesson businesses on the side, and golf is also a sport where you aren't going to get fired as quickly over W/Ls.  Keep the program out of the police blotter/negative news cycle, and there is a ton of leeway.  It's not like the football and basketball coaches.  Not to mention they can always get another job if they don't like the situation.  They know what they signed up for.

 

The power imbalance is still quite great.  

[leezer99]

2 hours ago, golfortennis said:

 

Sure but most of these coaches also have lesson businesses on the side, and golf is also a sport where you aren't going to get fired as quickly over W/Ls.  Keep the program out of the police blotter/negative news cycle, and there is a ton of leeway.  It's not like the football and basketball coaches.  Not to mention they can always get another job if they don't like the situation.  They know what they signed up for.

 

The power imbalance is still quite great.  

 

Did somebody hurt you? 

[golfortennis]

1 hour ago, leezer99 said:

 

Did somebody hurt you? 

n/a

 

 

Edited August 23, 2023 by golfortennis

[iteachgolf]

3 hours ago, golfortennis said:

 

Sure but most of these coaches also have lesson businesses on the side, and golf is also a sport where you aren't going to get fired as quickly over W/Ls.  Keep the program out of the police blotter/negative news cycle, and there is a ton of leeway.  It's not like the football and basketball coaches.  Not to mention they can always get another job if they don't like the situation.  They know what they signed up for.

 

The power imbalance is still quite great.  

Overwhelming majority of golf coaches don’t give any lessons at all.  The majority are amateur golfers.  Most college golf coaches are making well under $100k and the really good jobs don’t open up often and when they do are next to impossible to get. 
 

You are already being super disrespectful to a college coach in this thread and making completely baseless accusations their motives and what they believe.  He certainly isn’t doing it for the money or his “resume”.  

[golfortennis]

2 minutes ago, iteachgolf said:

Overwhelming majority of golf coaches don’t give any lessons at all.  The majority are amateur golfers.  Most college golf coaches are making well under $100k and the really good jobs don’t open up often and when they do are next to impossible to get. 
 

You are already being super disrespectful to a college coach in this thread and making completely baseless accusations their motives and what they believe.  He certainly isn’t doing it for the money or his “resume”.  

 

Who is the college coach I am "being super disrespectful" to?  If it's the fellow I responded to who basically said "play better," then I stand by what I said.  Plenty of stuff can get in the way of a kid being able to play their best, and coaches a lot of times are as culpable as anything else.  Maybe that particular guy isn't like that, but I've known enough people who have gone to college to play golf where the reality is far from the rosy picture that gets painted.

 

And if he is a coach, if he's telling the kid to play better, isn't that his job to get him playing better?  Or has the job description changed, and coaches are just guys who designate which people can take up spots on a team and it's all up to the kid?  Which, if that is the case, fine, but then the whole schpiel will need to be changed because that isn't how things are sold in the recruiting process.

 

But frankly saying I'm being super disrespectful to him is like saying I'm calling you a useless golf instructor by saying there are a lot of useless instructors out there.  Just because I'm responding to you doesn't mean I'm saying you.  And doesn't mean I'm saying him.   

   

[iteachgolf]

4 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

 

Who is the college coach I am "being super disrespectful" to?  If it's the fellow I responded to who basically said "play better," then I stand by what I said.  Plenty of stuff can get in the way of a kid being able to play their best, and coaches a lot of times are as culpable as anything else.  Maybe that particular guy isn't like that, but I've known enough people who have gone to college to play golf where the reality is far from the rosy picture that gets painted.

 

And if he is a coach, if he's telling the kid to play better, isn't that his job to get him playing better?  Or has the job description changed, and coaches are just guys who designate which people can take up spots on a team and it's all up to the kid?  Which, if that is the case, fine, but then the whole schpiel will need to be changed because that isn't how things are sold in the recruiting process.

 

But frankly saying I'm being super disrespectful to him is like saying I'm calling you a useless golf instructor by saying there are a lot of useless instructors out there.  Just because I'm responding to you doesn't mean I'm saying you.  And doesn't mean I'm saying him.   

   

He didn’t say play better at all.  Literally the opposite of what he said. He said that if you believed the offer was good when you committed, it doesn’t become a bad offer if you start playing better.  And often that being one of the better players on a middling team is better than being on a great team but not playing. His comments about the transfer portal were about kids who chose the best ranked school vs the best fit and how sticking with the original commitment might be the best option as it will lead to playing time sooner.  Nowhere did he say “play better”

 

 

 

And you 100% directed your comments at him directly.  “you'reprobably one of these people”   That is you calling him out directly not some indirect call out globally.  You not only misrepresented what he said but then made judgements about him as a person with obviously knowing nothing about him. 

[golfortennis]

27 minutes ago, iteachgolf said:

He didn’t say play better at all.  Literally the opposite of what he said. He said that if you believed the offer was good when you committed, it doesn’t become a bad offer if you start playing better.  And often that being one of the better players on a middling team is better than being on a great team but not playing. His comments about the transfer portal were about kids who chose the best ranked school vs the best fit and how sticking with the original commitment might be the best option as it will lead to playing time sooner.  Nowhere did he say “play better”

 

 

 

And you 100% directed your comments at him directly.  “you'reprobably one of these people”   That is you calling him out directly not some indirect call out globally.  You not only misrepresented what he said but then made judgements about him as a person with obviously knowing nothing about him. 

 

Disagree on the first paragraph, but whatever.  Yes, I did that in the post, you're right on that one.  I didn't know he was a coach, just assumed he was a rando like most of us.  Whether I agree with him or not, I would not have said knowing he was a coach, because a) it's his job to think that way, and b) his perspective is different.  So that is on me.

[tssgj65]

On 8/23/2023 at 4:01 AM, golfortennis said:

 

You're giving coaches far too much benefit of the doubt in terms of their impact on the "not competing well."  Power trips, playing favorites, being more interested in their resumes than the "student-athlete development" pabulum they preach.  "grateful for the opportunity"... you're probably one of these people who think it's a "privilege" to play in a professional league.  The privilege is in being blessed with the talent to play at that level, not in someone deciding to make money off that talent. 

This is seriously rich.

 

I am one of those coaches and the coaches I know care about their kids......  I take my position seriously regarding teaching/growing/leading fine young men to be ready for the real world beyond college athletics.  If it ends up they pursue playing after college so be it.  But they will leave me with many life lessons, including golf, that will enable them to compete in the real world.

 

I thank every parent for entrusting their young man to me - at time of commitment.  My loyalty is 100%.  Trust is a two way street and necessary for success.

[tssgj65]

I get a serious chuckle at some of the opinions on here.  You all know what opinions are like and everyone has one.

 

I only attempt to add good information to this forum for people that have little knowledge of the whole college/recruiting process.  Some are more apparent in their knowledge than others....

[golfortennis]

1 hour ago, tssgj65 said:

I get a serious chuckle at some of the opinions on here.  You all know what opinions are like and everyone has one.

 

I only attempt to add good information to this forum for people that have little knowledge of the whole college/recruiting process.  Some are more apparent in their knowledge than others....

 

Well when you know of a girl who was at a D3 school who got run off the team because she turned an ankle and wouldn't be able to play for a stretch, or another one who despite being a "student"-athlete was told that if she took a summer internship with a major company after sophomore year in the field she wished to pursue she was off the golf team, among other stories, you get a bit cynical.  Good on you that you handle things that way, but sadly there are many for whom the kids are nothing more than building blocks towards their own legacy, and if these kids won't help towards that, then out with them and in with some who will.

 

Which again is fine if you're upfront about that, but every coach says what you said, despite the fact a number of them don't actually show them to be true.  And to be fair it's not just golf coaches.  I have three nephews that have played baseball in NCAA and the stories they can tell would turn one's stomach.  Too many operate as though it's a professional sport, but use the student-athlete school is good stuff when it's convenient for them.  Based on iteach's vehement defense of you, I'm glad to hear you aren't one of those.  Just seems there are far too many that are.

[iteachgolf]

D3 women’s golf is essentially high school golf.  D3 women’s coaches make below poverty line money, so of course they have side jobs, and aren’t comparable to fully funded scholarship programs, especially on the women’s side of things.  

[golfortennis]

35 minutes ago, iteachgolf said:

D3 women’s golf is essentially high school golf.  D3 women’s coaches make below poverty line money, so of course they have side jobs, and aren’t comparable to fully funded scholarship programs, especially on the women’s side of things.  

 

I should have added the girl was quickly scooped up by a D1 school.  Things did go much better there.  But why is a D3 coach acting that way.   

[leezer99]

1 hour ago, golfortennis said:

 

I should have added the girl was quickly scooped up by a D1 school.  Things did go much better there.  But why is a D3 coach acting that way.   

Why are you lumping all coaches into one bucket? The exception is not the rule. 

[golfortennis]

9 minutes ago, leezer99 said:

Why are you lumping all coaches into one bucket? The exception is not the rule. 

 

Plenty of other examples.  Not just a one off.

[leezer99]

9 hours ago, golfortennis said:

 

Plenty of other examples.  Not just a one off.

 

Sack up and lay it out there then. If it's an epidemic in the golf world lets see how widespread it is. This is actually a topic that could be helpful if you can definitively back up what you're saying. 

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

17 hours ago, iteachgolf said:

D3 women’s golf is essentially high school golf.  D3 women’s coaches make below poverty line money, so of course they have side jobs, and aren’t comparable to fully funded scholarship programs, especially on the women’s side of things.  

Not replying to argue just curious in what way is it "essentially" high school golf?  Talent level, funding, coaching?

 

There is a lot of talent at the D3 level and not everyone is interested in the "fully funded scholarship programs". Those programs it's a full time job.

[tssgj65]

20 hours ago, golfortennis said:

 

Well when you know of a girl who was at a D3 school who got run off the team because she turned an ankle and wouldn't be able to play for a stretch, or another one who despite being a "student"-athlete was told that if she took a summer internship with a major company after sophomore year in the field she wished to pursue she was off the golf team, among other stories, you get a bit cynical.  Good on you that you handle things that way, but sadly there are many for whom the kids are nothing more than building blocks towards their own legacy, and if these kids won't help towards that, then out with them and in with some who will.

 

Which again is fine if you're upfront about that, but every coach says what you said, despite the fact a number of them don't actually show them to be true.  And to be fair it's not just golf coaches.  I have three nephews that have played baseball in NCAA and the stories they can tell would turn one's stomach.  Too many operate as though it's a professional sport, but use the student-athlete school is good stuff when it's convenient for them.  Based on iteach's vehement defense of you, I'm glad to hear you aren't one of those.  Just seems there are far too many that are.

The example of the D3 girl makes little sense.  D3 offers no athletic scholarships, so there is no financial commitment from the institution/coach going forward.  Typcially one goes to D3 for academic pursuits and sport is secondary.  No reason to kick anyone off a Team if she didn't commit to summer golf and can still help the Team in the Fall.  Had to be a rude awakening going from D3 to D1 regarding the time commitment expectation during school and summer.  Good for her improved situation.

 

Additionally, given the free agency of the portal, Coaches more than ever are doing their best to provide the absolute best college experience possible so that 6-8 spots on the Team don't enter the portal and go elsewhere.  Anecdotally there are a lot of D1's in the portal looking to move down to gain playing time.  It was my original point to the young man having second thoughts regarding his verbal that it is better being 5 man than 8 as a freshman, and around 6-8 is where many freshmen spend that year.

 

I would urge any young athlete to utilize the tools available if their situations are poor with the Coach.  Captains, SAAC reps, end of season player evaluation of coach, etc.  Every AD will want to know from the players how the coach is doing from the player's perspective.

 

It all starts and ends with finding the best fit for the athlete's collegiate goals.

[iteachgolf]

6 hours ago, TripleBogeysrbetter said:

Not replying to argue just curious in what way is it "essentially" high school golf?  Talent level, funding, coaching?

 

There is a lot of talent at the D3 level and not everyone is interested in the "fully funded scholarship programs". Those programs it's a full time job.

I would completely disagree theres a “lot of talent” at the D3 level.  They’re some talent, far from a lot.  It’s basically the same as high school golf in all areas.  The top high school teams here are better than the top D3 girls teams.   Methodist is always one of the top teams in D3 golf and they had one girl average barely under 76, and only 3 girls who average under 79.  More average over 88 than under 80

 

Their 2021 NCAA National Championship team had one player average under 77 and they won the title by 4 shots at +79 for the tournament on a fairly easy 5800 yard course.  They won every event they played except one (3rd place) yet shot 50+ over in all but two of the events they played.  

[doctor220]

22 hours ago, TripleBogeysrbetter said:

Not replying to argue just curious in what way is it "essentially" high school golf?  Talent level, funding, coaching?

 

There is a lot of talent at the D3 level and not everyone is interested in the "fully funded scholarship programs". Those programs it's a full time job.

There’s not a lot of talent at all. It’s a bunch of 80s shooters for the most part. 

Edited August 26, 2023 by doctor220

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

On 8/25/2023 at 5:58 PM, iteachgolf said:

I would completely disagree theres a “lot of talent” at the D3 level.  They’re some talent, far from a lot.  It’s basically the same as high school golf in all areas.  The top high school teams here are better than the top D3 girls teams.   Methodist is always one of the top teams in D3 golf and they had one girl average barely under 76, and only 3 girls who average under 79.  More average over 88 than under 80

 

Their 2021 NCAA National Championship team had one player average under 77 and they won the title by 4 shots at +79 for the tournament on a fairly easy 5800 yard course.  They won every event they played except one (3rd place) yet shot 50+ over in all but two of the events they played.  

I wasn't qualifying talent with stroke average.  Or team placement.  I simply asked the question.

 

I still can by the statement. "at the D3 level and not everyone is interested in the "fully funded scholarship programs". Those programs it's a full time job. "  The men and women there are more interested in academics and it fits.

 

 

"a lot" "some" "a few" there is talent at the D3 level men and women.

 

I highly doubt a ladies HS team is beating a top D3 team, but OK.

 

I have noticed in the past years of programs having one coach for the men's and women's at the D3.  Not sure how much that rises them above the " poverty line money"

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

On 8/26/2023 at 10:12 AM, doctor220 said:

There’s not a lot of talent at all. It’s a bunch of 80s shooters for the most part. 

Probably about 20 strokes ahead of you? asking for a friend.

 

🤣

Edited August 28, 2023 by TripleBogeysrbetter

[iteachgolf]

2 minutes ago, TripleBogeysrbetter said:

I wasn't qualifying talent with stroke average.  Or team placement.  I simply asked the question.

 

I still can by the statement. "at the D3 level and not everyone is interested in the "fully funded scholarship programs". Those programs it's a full time job. "  The men and women there are more interested in academics and it fits.

 

 

"a lot" "some" "a few" there is talent at the D3 level men and women.

 

I highly doubt a ladies HS team is beating a top D3 team, but OK.

 

I have noticed in the past years of programs having one coach for the men's and women's at the D3.  Not sure how much that rises them above the " poverty line money"

Most of the coaches are making $30-40k including in places like California.   The top hs teams here absolutely would beat the top D3 teams , winning teams at states generally shoot under par and several of the HS teams here have their entire top 5 play high level college golf.  
 

Stroke average is how you measure how good someone is at golf.  Facts are that the BEST teams have around one player averaging under 77 from 5800 yards with more players shooting 85+ than below 80.   You can play a semantics game all you want but that’s simply not that good, doesn’t make them bad people or not dedicated, but does mean they aren’t that talented. 

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

27 minutes ago, iteachgolf said:

Most of the coaches are making $30-40k including in places like California.   The top hs teams here absolutely would beat the top D3 teams , winning teams at states generally shoot under par and several of the HS teams here have their entire top 5 play high level college golf.  
 

Stroke average is how you measure how good someone is at golf.  Facts are that the BEST teams have around one player averaging under 77 from 5800 yards with more players shooting 85+ than below 80.   You can play a semantics game all you want but that’s simply not that good, doesn’t make them bad people or not dedicated, but does mean they aren’t that talented. 

so kinda like these stats?  Just not that talented?

 

 

At the end of the day I don't really care. I am just cool that my daughter wanted to continue her education and  play for 4 more years.

Edited August 28, 2023 by TripleBogeysrbetter

[iteachgolf]

2 hours ago, TripleBogeysrbetter said:

so kinda like these stats?  Just not that talented?

 

 

At the end of the day I don't really care. I am just cool that my daughter wanted to continue her education and  play for 4 more years.

Correct I wouldn’t consider those stats good. Doesn’t mean they are bad but saying there’s a lot of talent in D3 girls golf would be false. Or your definition is vastly different than mine.  It’s getting better but girls golf has a massive lack of depth, the top 150-250 juniors in each class are very good and after that there is a steep decline.  Simply a supply and demand issue.   

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

15 minutes ago, iteachgolf said:

Correct I wouldn’t consider those stats good. Doesn’t mean they are bad but saying there’s a lot of talent in D3 girls golf would be false. Or your definition is vastly different than mine.  It’s getting better but girls golf has a massive lack of depth, the top 150-250 juniors in each class are very good and after that there is a steep decline.  Simply a supply and demand issue.   

That's actually a Div 1 program stat line.

So Maybe there isn't "a lot" talent any wheres.   So maybe we have an issue with the age old issue of Div 1 or bust.

 

The thing I love about Div 3 is my daughter can decide later today golf is taking to much time and just stop.  Div 1 and 2 if you are getting athletic dollars that might get expensive.

[iteachgolf]

Just now, TripleBogeysrbetter said:

That's actually a Div 1 program stat line.

So Maybe there isn't "a lot" talent any wheres.   So maybe we have an issue with the age old issue of Div 1 or bust.

 

The thing I love about Div 3 is my daughter can decide later today golf is taking to much time and just stop.  Div 1 and 2 if you are getting athletic dollars that might get expensive.

The bottom half of D1 isn’t loaded with talent either.  Proving my point that if there isn’t enough talent to fill D1 golf with depth there’s not enough for D2 let alone D3.  Nobody said anything about D1 or bust.  Plenty of D1 coaches make less than $50k a year and suffer from the same issues as D3 programs.  With D3 though it’s almost every school vs some of D1 schools. You don’t have to justify you/your family’s personal decision.  Fit for each student athlete is a very individual thing.  But most D3 private schools cost a lot more to attend than public D1 universities if a player were to choose to step away from golf.  That’s speaking from experience as someone who had scholarships to a D1 program and decided after first year to pursue engineering over golf while in college (decided to change direction again a few years later) 
 

 

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

31 minutes ago, iteachgolf said:

The bottom half of D1 isn’t loaded with talent either.  Proving my point that if there isn’t enough talent to fill D1 golf with depth there’s not enough for D2 let alone D3.  Nobody said anything about D1 or bust.  Plenty of D1 coaches make less than $50k a year and suffer from the same issues as D3 programs.  With D3 though it’s almost every school vs some of D1 schools. You don’t have to justify you/your family’s personal decision.  Fit for each student athlete is a very individual thing.  But most D3 private schools cost a lot more to attend than public D1 universities if a player were to choose to step away from golf.  That’s speaking from experience as someone who had scholarships to a D1 program and decided after first year to pursue engineering over golf while in college (decided to change direction again a few years later) 
 

 

I appreciate the debate and no name calling by now. 😉

 

I would argue that you're still assuming that its a top down approach.

 

"Proving my point that if there isn’t enough talent to fill D1 golf with depth there’s not enough for D2 let alone D3. "  Removing my family.  There are folks we now that want nothing to do with Div 1 sports.  So it's not that all the talent is going to go to Div 1 first and then be parse out from there. 

 

Its not  a draft class.

 

They're high achieving scholars.  Members of the NHS and folks usually carry a 4.25 GPA or higher with dual enrollment.

 

They can get a lot of merit money to really balance the scales.  Typically, also enter college with a semester worth of credits.  A young lady might want to get a certain major that is only offered at maybe 12 colleges east of the Mississippi. 

 

 

[iteachgolf]

54 minutes ago, TripleBogeysrbetter said:

I appreciate the debate and no name calling by now. 😉

 

I would argue that you're still assuming that its a top down approach.

 

"Proving my point that if there isn’t enough talent to fill D1 golf with depth there’s not enough for D2 let alone D3. "  Removing my family.  There are folks we now that want nothing to do with Div 1 sports.  So it's not that all the talent is going to go to Div 1 first and then be parse out from there. 

 

Its not  a draft class.

 

They're high achieving scholars.  Members of the NHS and folks usually carry a 4.25 GPA or higher with dual enrollment.

 

They can get a lot of merit money to really balance the scales.  Typically, also enter college with a semester worth of credits.  A young lady might want to get a certain major that is only offered at maybe 12 colleges east of the Mississippi. 

 

 

It’s more that there are plenty of amazing academic schools that also offer highly competitive D1 golf teams.   The team I was on was the top recruiting class in the country and number 2 in the country for engineering (I had a 4.5 and 33 ACT/1350 SAT) and got more than full ride when combining scholarships.   Top golfers talent wise can go to Stanford, Vanderbilt, Duke, Wake Forrest, Cal, etc plus all the Ivy leagues and get the best of both worlds.   Most top players are gonna end up at D1 schools, not all but most and most people who say they have zero interest at top level D1, don’t actually have the option of top level D1 golf.  If a player is good enough to be recruited by Duke, Vandy, Wake Forrest, etc the competitive part of their makeup that got them that good would also push them to compete against the best. If we are comparing bottom 100 D1 schools to D3 then I get your point but again that’s because at that level the golf doesn’t matter 

[TroyB123]

There's a little bit of disconnect here when talking about d2 and d3 and different states.    A state like VA doesn't have any real have any meaningful D2 golf programs, and plenty of D3s, with a handful that have pretty well funded athletic and golf programs.   Somewhere like Florida have lots of D2, but no D3s to really speak of.  I've known a few kids who picked a d3 golf centric school over a lower tier d1 that doesn't care much about the golf team.   This is all on the boys side though.

 

He had a high school team come into a HS tournament where they brought 4 girls.  It was a 36 hole event on a fairly tough course, where teams could only bring 5 players, with top 4 scores counting and as many or few girls as they wanted (girls played from 5610, boys from 6600).   It was a par 71, and the 4 girls shot 70-69, 70-74, 73-77, and 80-79.   I'm guessing they could hang with any d2 or d3 girls team and some d1s.

[DoctorTee]

Our S16 has sent his video and profile through agency to quite a few STEM colleges at the end of July and has already been contacted by three NAIA universities to talk. The truth is that it is a dilemma to opt for academics or for a good position in Golfstat (one of them is among the first 40 of NAIA).

 

These are small universities in more or less rural areas. We are waiting for some D2 but for now there are only NAIA contacts.