Posting a Score For Another Player

[nsxguy]

17 hours ago, DaveLeeNC said:

 

I have not asked and this was not an issue in my mind - just one of those "well, that is interesting" kind of things. dave

 

Have you updated your phone app ?

 

I just took a look at the phone app and noticed I had an update pending so I updated it. Shoulda checked first though. 🤦‍♀️

 

Anyway, I can't see anything more than on the GHIN webite - only the last 20 scores (of another member) with only month/year noted.

[Mr. Bean]

10 minutes ago, larrybud said:

Then what do we need them for? lol. Honestly, what function would this committee serve in this instance?

 

Golf is based on integrity 😎

[DaveLeeNC]

6 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Have you updated your phone app ?

 

I just took a look at the phone app and noticed I had an update pending so I updated it. Shoulda checked first though. 🤦‍♀️

 

Anyway, I can't see anything more than on the GHIN webite - only the last 20 scores (of another member) with only month/year noted.

Oops - my apologies here. I was looking at another players score  history and hit "stats" and got a more complete score history. I carelessly did not realize that it had switched away from the other player to my score history. My error and thanks for pointing this out. dave

[Augster]

Peer review, as defined in the handicap manual, starts with the other players you are playing with each day. Everyone in the group should verify each other’s scores, then post them. It’s preferred if the player is playing with someone else in his club, but it’s not necessary. 
 

That’s peer review. 4.4/1. 

 

[North Butte]

6 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

I would say that the party (= USGA) maintaining your handicap is your Committee, whether they make any peer reviews or not. Thus you DO have a Committee, IMO.

You're trying to split semantic hairs in the classic Rules of Golf and Etiquette manner but it can't change the fact that for most GHIN subscribers no review is taking place. No peer review, no committee review, no review by nobody, ever. 

[Mr. Bean]

5 hours ago, North Butte said:

You're trying to split semantic hairs in the classic Rules of Golf and Etiquette manner but it can't change the fact that for most GHIN subscribers no review is taking place. No peer review, no committee review, no review by nobody, ever. 

 

Please read Augster's post below.

 

Besides, I was only taking stand to Larrybud's claim that he has no committee. Whether his committee performs reviews or not is another matter. And maybe it does perform them, he just don't know it. At my club the committee performs reviews but I do not get any info on that unless there is something funny going on.

[North Butte]

4 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Please read Augster's post below.

 

Besides, I was only taking stand to Larrybud's claim that he has no committee. Whether his committee performs reviews or not is another matter. And maybe it does perform them, he just don't know it. At my club the committee performs reviews but I do not get any info on that unless there is something funny going on.

Your belief is touching but not reflective of reality at most public courses in USA. And again, Augster is just quoting the Rule book as thought that magically creates peer review in situations where it clearly does not happen. 

 

There are plenty of scores in GHIN that have been peer reviewed. The problem is, there's no way to distinguish those from the large proportion of scores which have had none. And all the semantics and Rule book quoting in the world doesn't keep larrybud from typing in ten made-up 90's in a row, if he wanted to do such a thing. 

 

At some point during today, thousands and thousands of vanity scores will be typed into GHIN from guys who are either playing alone (in violation of the handicapping rules) or playing with people who don't give a darn about what score they type in or playing with people who are vanity 'cappers themselves. Say "Committee" and "4.4/1" as many times as you like, those concepts are completely moot for a large proportion (I'd guess possibly a majority) of GHIN subscribers. 

[Mr. Bean]

32 minutes ago, North Butte said:

Your belief is touching but not reflective of reality at most public courses in USA. And again, Augster is just quoting the Rule book as thought that magically creates peer review in situations where it clearly does not happen. 

 

There are plenty of scores in GHIN that have been peer reviewed. The problem is, there's no way to distinguish those from the large proportion of scores which have had none. And all the semantics and Rule book quoting in the world doesn't keep larrybud from typing in ten made-up 90's in a row, if he wanted to do such a thing. 

 

At some point during today, thousands and thousands of vanity scores will be typed into GHIN from guys who are either playing alone (in violation of the handicapping rules) or playing with people who don't give a darn about what score they type in or playing with people who are vanity 'cappers themselves. Say "Committee" and "4.4/1" as many times as you like, those concepts are completely moot for a large proportion (I'd guess possibly a majority) of GHIN subscribers. 

 

I am not following what you are trying to prove here but two things come to my mind:

1) Golf is based on integrity, including posting handicap rounds

2) There will always be dishonest jerks who cheat

[mark m]

On 9/26/2022 at 2:13 PM, DaveLeeNC said:

 

I take a kind of broad perspective on "peer review". I can certainly see (as an example) a golfer playing in some high end member-guest, having some serious questions about the integrity of another player's index, and wanting to see more than just the last 20 scores. 

 

dave

 

dave: the previous 2019 version of the GHIN app had more information on players you followed (in “lookup”). It was very similar to the options you have now when looking at your own stats. They removed it when the app was updated to the current version. They added stats tracking and so on, so it was improved for the individual player, but much worse for peer review purposes. It was done intentionally with no explanation. As you know, Handicap Committees are non existent or totally ineffective at many courses - and they knew that as well. It would be better if players had more tools at their fingertips.

 

To improve peer review, I would propose adding the 10 best differentials from the past 36 months into the app. Show the month and year, and those differentials. This would show the true potential of the player from the fairly recent past. In my experience, most baggers continually shoot the same best gross scores in competitions over the course of years/decades, so they get dangerous (and confident) when the handicap gets up there where the resulting net score is very good. This wouldn’t help solve the issue with scores from Fourball or skins games, but it be would small step in the right direction.

[North Butte]

55 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

I am not following what you are trying to prove here but two things come to my mind:

1) Golf is based on integrity, including posting handicap rounds

2) There will always be dishonest jerks who cheat

  

I was trying to remedy your "confusion" over how handicapping works in USA. 

 

You said, "The handicap committee of each club...takes care of any review necessary". Myself and larrybud were pointing out that your are indeed confused about how handicaps work for the majority of USA golfers. It simply does not work like you suppose it should for many USGA handicap holders who play with no peer review, committee review or any other kind of review.

 

I'm not saying that other golfers being able to check up (in the GHIN app) on what scores a person posts is going to accomplish much in the way of peer review. But it at least makes it possible for informal "peer review" to take place in the absence of the formal system you wrongly assume exists everywhere. 

 

On 9/29/2022 at 3:14 AM, Mr. Bean said:

I am somewhat confused about the discussion here, apparently due to the differences between our countries and practices. From my point of view I cannot see any benefit than general curiosity to see other people's scores other than in competitions. Around here it is the handicap committee of each club that takes care of any review necessary, it is not a job for an individual club member or anyone else, for that matter.

 

[davep043]

32 minutes ago, mark m said:

To improve peer review, I would propose adding the 10 best differentials from the past 36 months into the app. Show the month and year, and those differentials.

This just reminded me, a couple of friends went to the Myrtle Beach World Amateur a month or so back.  That tournament uses the players lowest Handicap Index for the last 12 months.  Obviously they have admin access to the scoring and handicap records of every player.  I don't know that there's a single "right" answer as to the amount of information that should be available to everyone, as opposed to a handicap administrator.  It seems to me that being able to see the last 20 scores is adequate for most informal reviews, and there are obviously some who disagree with me.

[TwistedSister]

On 9/27/2022 at 5:45 PM, DaveLeeNC said:

I was just curious as to why you were asking. dave

If one posts a score for someone else that person can always go in and delete the score.

[DaveLeeNC]

45 minutes ago, mark m said:

 

dave: the previous 2019 version of the GHIN app had more information on players you followed (in “lookup”). It was very similar to the options you have now when looking at your own stats. They removed it when the app was updated to the current version. They added stats tracking and so on, so it was improved for the individual player, but much worse for peer review purposes. It was done intentionally with no explanation. As you know, Handicap Committees are non existent or totally ineffective at many courses - and they knew that as well. It would be better if players had more tools at their fingertips.

 

To improve peer review, I would propose adding the 10 best differentials from the past 36 months into the app. Show the month and year, and those differentials. This would show the true potential of the player from the fairly recent past. In my experience, most baggers continually shoot the same best gross scores in competitions over the course of years/decades, so they get dangerous (and confident) when the handicap gets up there where the resulting net score is very good. This wouldn’t help solve the issue with scores from Fourball or skins games, but it be would small step in the right direction.

 

Thanks, Mark. I guess I was fooling myself in 'expecting to see' more data than they currently expose. I agree with you that the last 20 scores, while being useful, is less information than I would chose to expose if/when I become the "King of Golf". 

 

dave

[mark m]

random thoughts:

 

A friend of mine played in MB as well. Big Stu mentioned in another thread that they bounced 19 players this year. 
 

For those that play a lot of golf, 20 rounds is one month of scores.
 

The USGA is poor at communicating information on the handicap system. They provide only limited info to the NGF on stats - how many in the system? Average number of scores? How many with less than 5? more than 20? More than 50? Etc. They should give access to a stats guy/firm.

[DaveLeeNC]

1 minute ago, TwistedSister said:

If one posts a score for someone else that person can always go in and delete the score.

 

Just to correct the record, 'that person' cannot delete a score in their scoring record. However, they can request that it be done through their handicap committee or someone who has administrative access to the system. 

 

I am not sure what the relevance of this is in this case. 

 

dave

[TwistedSister]

2 minutes ago, DaveLeeNC said:

 

Just to correct the record, 'that person' cannot delete a score in their scoring record. However, they can request that it be done through their handicap committee or someone who has administrative access to the system. 

 

I am not sure what the relevance of this is in this case. 

 

dave

 I have done it many times when there was a duplicate posted. The title of your thread.  "Posting a score for another player".

[DaveLeeNC]

2 hours ago, TwistedSister said:

 I have done it many times when there was a duplicate posted. The title of your thread.  "Posting a score for another player".

 

Could you provide some details as to how I might delete a score in my scoring record? Thanks. 

 

dave

[TwistedSister]

Just now, DaveLeeNC said:

 

Could you provide some details as to how I might delete a score in my scoring record? Thanks. 

 

dave

I am in Indiana.  We use indianagolf.org.  We have a member number and password.  Once I log on I can view my scores and index. If I want to delete a score I just highlight that score and then there is a link to edit/delete.

[DaveLeeNC]

18 minutes ago, TwistedSister said:

I am in Indiana.  We use indianagolf.org.  We have a member number and password.  Once I log on I can view my scores and index. If I want to delete a score I just highlight that score and then there is a link to edit/delete.

 

Interesting. Are you a Golfnet or a "other than Ghin" club? AFAIK, those of us posting through GHIN (probably over 95% of us) don't have that option. dave

[TwistedSister]

21 minutes ago, DaveLeeNC said:

 

Interesting. Are you a Golfnet or a "other than Ghin" club? AFAIK, those of us posting through GHIN (probably over 95% of us) don't have that option. dave

GHIN.

[Mr. Bean]

3 hours ago, North Butte said:

  

I was trying to remedy your "confusion" over how handicapping works in USA. 

 

You said, "The handicap committee of each club...takes care of any review necessary". Myself and larrybud were pointing out that your are indeed confused about how handicaps work for the majority of USA golfers. It simply does not work like you suppose it should for many USGA handicap holders who play with no peer review, committee review or any other kind of review.

 

I'm not saying that other golfers being able to check up (in the GHIN app) on what scores a person posts is going to accomplish much in the way of peer review. But it at least makes it possible for informal "peer review" to take place in the absence of the formal system you wrongly assume exists everywhere. 

 

 

 

It sure is way better around here, and I am deeply grateful for that.

[DaveLeeNC]

46 minutes ago, TwistedSister said:

Interesting. Are you a Golfnet or a "other than Ghin" club? AFAIK, those of us posting through GHIN (probably over 95% of us) don't have that option. dave

 

46 minutes ago, TwistedSister said:

GHIN.

 

That is interesting - it seems that you are provided with an alternative interface to the GHIN system. Just out of curiousity, how many scores can you see for players other than yourself? 

 

dave

[nsxguy]

2 hours ago, TwistedSister said:

I am in Indiana.  We use indianagolf.org.  We have a member number and password.  Once I log on I can view my scores and index. If I want to delete a score I just highlight that score and then there is a link to edit/delete.

 

For any score on your record ?

 

How long do you have that edit/delete ability ?

[TwistedSister]

2 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

For any score on your record ?

 

How long do you have that edit/delete ability ?

This was when I was playing.  I quit earlier in the year.  And now have been diagnosed with Leukemia so I have bigger fish to fry.  If I have the person's number and password I can look at scores.  My point in these posts was to say that if someone wants to manipulate the system they can either their scores or someone elses.  So  I wish all of you well.  I am off for the near future. 

[DaveLeeNC]

@TwistedSister While we had our tangles here, I would not wish Leukemia on anyone. I sincerely wish you the best possible recovery. 

 

dave

[nsxguy]

1 hour ago, TwistedSister said:

This was when I was playing.  I quit earlier in the year.  And now have been diagnosed with Leukemia so I have bigger fish to fry.  If I have the person's number and password I can look at scores.  My point in these posts was to say that if someone wants to manipulate the system they can either their scores or someone elses.  So  I wish all of you well.  I am off for the near future. 

 

None of this even matters.

 

Best of luck in your fight.

[TwistedSister]

3 hours ago, DaveLeeNC said:

@TwistedSister While we had our tangles here, I would not wish Leukemia on anyone. I sincerely wish you the best possible recovery. 

 

dave

Thanx.  Our "tangles" here are just differences of opinions and the difficulty in judging the intent of comments when the face can not be seen.  I am sure whatever happens I have had a great life and my family is well provided for.  I have done my job well. 

[TwistedSister]

3 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

None of this even matters.

 

Best of luck in your fight.

Thanx "guy"   I place myself in His hands.  My life has been great and my family is well provided for.  I could not have done a better job. 

[Imp]

On 9/28/2022 at 4:47 PM, Augster said:

Correct. Posting bogus scores for others. 

 

But, isn't golf a game of honor? 😉

[mark m]

“Golf doesn’t build character, it exposes it”

 

It is best played by honorable people. But clearly not all are honorable. This is why, when competing in comps, scores are kept by a marker and attested following play. Competitors should consider their responsibility prior to play, gird their loins, and pay attention.