Ping G430 Lofts - Really PING? Other MFGs please note also!

[Nessism]

42 minutes ago, hwturner17 said:

I understand the gut reaction to "loft jacking", but you can't look at loft numbers without taking CG location into account. It's a mix of factors designed to provide more height and distance to those who need it. 

 

In addition, you should never gap your set based on lofts. Just base it on distances and this is a non issue

 

I always gap based on lofts.  And the CG location hasn't changed enough to justify the crazy strengthening in lofts between 425 and 430.  Loft is loft.

[hwturner17]

1 minute ago, Nessism said:

 

I always gap based on lofts.  And the CG location hasn't changed enough to justify the crazy strengthening in lofts between 425 and 430.  Loft is loft.

I can't imagine gapping based on anything other that distance. I can see someone adjusting lofts to hit those desired distances, but I cannot imagine how anything other than hitting appropriate distances matters. Yeah, loft is loft, but you move the CG location and you have different spin rates, leading to different launch conditions, leading to different distances. I just don't understand why people get bent out of shape about it. 

 

I can't speak to the differences in the 425 and 430 CG location. I don't think many people can tbh. But maybe something did actually change between the two irons to justify the loft difference. 

[Nessism]

30 minutes ago, hwturner17 said:

I can't imagine gapping based on anything other that distance. I can see someone adjusting lofts to hit those desired distances, but I cannot imagine how anything other than hitting appropriate distances matters. Yeah, loft is loft, but you move the CG location and you have different spin rates, leading to different launch conditions, leading to different distances. I just don't understand why people get bent out of shape about it. 

 

I can't speak to the differences in the 425 and 430 CG location. I don't think many people can tbh. But maybe something did actually change between the two irons to justify the loft difference. 

 

Loft increases such as the 430 show are a fraud.  Ping is joining the rest in the BS game of tricking people into buying new clubs through "increased distance."  It's a sham.

[596]

On 10/13/2022 at 2:10 PM, hd.softail said:

 

Yes here are the G430 Iron Lofts:

 

5i - 22

6i - 25.5

7i - 29

8i - 33

9i - 37

PW - 41

UW1 - 45.5

UW2 - 50

SW - 54

LW - 58

 

Ignoring the labels in the left column, there is nothing wrong with those lofts.  Seem pretty darn standard now a days.

 

Leaves you room for 2 long clubs from 15* to 19*, then driver, putter. 

[GolfTurkey]

Can't say I'm sad that I recently completed my G425 iron set when the G430s are coming out soon.

 

I like that the retro spec G425s are quite traditionally lofted (47 degree PW) so I don't need 5 wedges or any kind of weird bag juggling. The G425s are also not super "hot" so gapping isn't a problem; they go fairly normal distances but with extra forgiveness.

[drumdude96]

On 10/13/2022 at 2:15 PM, boggyman said:

They’re just playing catch-up. Unless one decides to play a so called “players” iron, jacked lofts are the norm and here to stay, thin faced and all. Get over it and/or move forward folks! 

My Adams A4 Forged are as jacked as I'm going to get.  They go from 26 degree 5 iron down to 45 degree PW.  I can't even get excited about ANY of the new irons on the market.  All the "tech" and strong lofts are a huge turn off for me.  There is nothing better than a one-piece forged iron, whether that be a blade or cavity back, and that's getting pretty hard to find in any of the new offerings.  Probably the closest thing to what I like would be the Wilson Staff CB, and I believe they have some tungsten weighting in the toe.  I tried a set of i210's last year, and they were clicky and felt like crap, and had way too much bounce for my liking.  Bought a set of Mizuno MP 30's and all was well.  I also have a set of Hogan Edge 2-E (produced from 1988-1994) that will be ready to play shortly.  Pretty excited to get those in the bag.  I have a few sets of cast irons, but the feel just sucks compared to forged, and that includes a set of PING Zing BeCu.  Not sure what all the hype is about when it comes to the old copper PINGs.  

[drumdude96]

19 hours ago, Nessism said:

 

Loft increases such as the 430 show are a fraud.  Ping is joining the rest in the BS game of tricking people into buying new clubs through "increased distance."  It's a sham.

Yep.  Depending on which set I'm playing, my 8 iron carries from 170-180 yards.  With the G430's I'm guessing it would carry about 190 yards.  Why would I need that?! And then you need 5 or 6 "wedges" to get the bottom of the bag right.  No thanks!

Edited October 18, 2022 by drumdude96

[boggyman]

2 hours ago, drumdude96 said:

My Adams A4 Forged are as jacked as I'm going to get.  They go from 26 degree 5 iron down to 45 degree PW.  I can't even get excited about ANY of the new irons on the market.  All the "tech" and strong lofts are a huge turn off for me.  There is nothing better than a one-piece forged iron, whether that be a blade or cavity back, and that's getting pretty hard to find in any of the new offerings.  Probably the closest thing to what I like would be the Wilson Staff CB, and I believe they have some tungsten weighting in the toe.  I tried a set of i210's last year, and they were clicky and felt like crap, and had way too much bounce for my liking.  Bought a set of Mizuno MP 30's and all was well.  I also have a set of Hogan Edge 2-E (produced from 1988-1994) that will be ready to play shortly.  Pretty excited to get those in the bag.  I have a few sets of cast irons, but the feel just sucks compared to forged, and that includes a set of PING Zing BeCu.  Not sure what all the hype is about when it comes to the old copper PINGs.  

I go back and forth between my Launch Pads and ole trusty FG 17s myself. I’m done with buying irons for along time coming. For now though I’m sticking to my Pads. 

[dmeeksDC]

9 hours ago, drumdude96 said:

My Adams A4 Forged are as jacked as I'm going to get.  They go from 26 degree 5 iron down to 45 degree PW.  I can't even get excited about ANY of the new irons on the market.  All the "tech" and strong lofts are a huge turn off for me.  There is nothing better than a one-piece forged iron, whether that be a blade or cavity back, and that's getting pretty hard to find in any of the new offerings.  Probably the closest thing to what I like would be the Wilson Staff CB, and I believe they have some tungsten weighting in the toe.  I tried a set of i210's last year, and they were clicky and felt like crap, and had way too much bounce for my liking.  Bought a set of Mizuno MP 30's and all was well.  I also have a set of Hogan Edge 2-E (produced from 1988-1994) that will be ready to play shortly.  Pretty excited to get those in the bag.  I have a few sets of cast irons, but the feel just sucks compared to forged, and that includes a set of PING Zing BeCu.  Not sure what all the hype is about when it comes to the old copper PINGs.  

I’m with you. There are some one-piece forged CB options, but they are getting scarce. And they seem to not be a priority for the major OEMs. Try New Level, Sub70 or Haywood. Some pretty nice cavity backs. 
 

I took a liking to the new Wishon 585PC (progressive cavity) irons that are 1035 carbon steel and beautifully milled. Go from graduated CBs in the long irons to MB in 8-G. No tungsten or tech. Low bounce, offset is constant. First set of Wishons I’ve played. The 7 iron is 34 degrees. They’re outstanding. 
 

The Ping change is weird. There was nothing wrong with the loft options with the 425 — standard, power or retro lofts. Now all they’re doing is making the PW like a strong 9 iron and moving every head 1-plus clubs stronger. Why? Why not just leave it as it was? There is no performance benefit to the new lofts, it is just for egos. 
 

I find 4 degree gaps is perfect for irons — I like about a 12-yard gap — maybe go to a little less (3 degrees) at the long end when moving from 5 iron to hybrid or 7 wood. I think 5 degree gaps on a hot faced-iron equals too large a yardage gap. It’s 15-16 yards for me and that won’t work. Would have to bend them to get it right. 
 

The Wishon 585PC

 

 

[jarediogolf]

I bought a set of irons with a 44* PW.
I was confused and scared. Then I got a 48* gap wedge and I was very happy. I could handle a 43* pw now. But below that I’ll start getting confused and scared again. 

[drumdude96]

3 hours ago, dmeeksDC said:

I’m with you. There are some one-piece forged CB options, but they are getting scarce. And they seem to not be a priority for the major OEMs. Try New Level, Sub70 or Haywood. Some pretty nice cavity backs. 
 

I took a liking to the new Wishon 585PC (progressive cavity) irons that are 1035 carbon steel and beautifully milled. Go from graduated CBs in the long irons to MB in 8-G. No tungsten or tech. Low bounce, offset is constant. First set of Wishons I’ve played. The 7 iron is 34 degrees. They’re outstanding. 
 

The Ping change is weird. There was nothing wrong with the loft options with the 425 — standard, power or retro lofts. Now all they’re doing is making the PW like a strong 9 iron and moving every head 1-plus clubs stronger. Why? Why not just leave it as it was? There is no performance benefit to the new lofts, it is just for egos. 
 

I find 4 degree gaps is perfect for irons — I like about a 12-yard gap — maybe go to a little less (3 degrees) at the long end when moving from 5 iron to hybrid or 7 wood. I think 5 degree gaps on a hot faced-iron equals too large a yardage gap. It’s 15-16 yards for me and that won’t work. Would have to bend them to get it right. 
 

The Wishon 585PC

 

 

Those Wishon irons are gorgeous. Too bad I'm a lefty or I'd order a set. I even have an account with Diamond Golf. I love the idea of a combo set. Almost pulled the trigger on a really nice set of Nike Pro Combos the other day but realized I don't need them and passed on the Ebay auction.

[NRJyzr]

On 10/17/2022 at 11:47 AM, hwturner17 said:

I understand the gut reaction to "loft jacking", but you can't look at loft numbers without taking CG location into account. It's a mix of factors designed to provide more height and distance to those who need it. 

 

In addition, you should never gap your set based on lofts. Just base it on distances and this is a non issue

 

Wondered how long it would be before the CG defense would make an appearance.

 

If only it were true.

 

CG's are higher now, generally speaking.  The Winged MT set from the 50s has a vertical CG at .742", rear CG at .625".  It's far from the lowest, but you still won't find many sets with a CG that low.

 

[Nessism]

8 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

 

Wondered how long it would be before the CG defense would make an appearance.

 

If only it were true.

 

CG's are higher now, generally speaking.  

 

 

Ping suggests they lowered the CG with these.  That still doesn't explain why they have TWO GAP WEDGES, though. 🤨

[NRJyzr]

7 minutes ago, Nessism said:

 

Ping suggests they lowered the CG with these.  That still doesn't explain why they have TWO GAP WEDGES, though. 🤨

 

Maybe they did, if they're comparing to the 1936 Spalding Symetric iron, which had a CG of 1.116 

 

[Pastit]

15 minutes ago, Nessism said:

 

Ping suggests they lowered the CG with these.  That still doesn't explain why they have TWO GAP WEDGES, though. 🤨

I would have thought it was rather obvious and well-illustrated in the loft specs posted above.