No Rakes

[jpt1101]

I played golf today at North Palm Beach Country Club. It was an enjoyable round and as usual was in great shape. When I teed off they mentioned that they did not have rakes any longer for the bunkers. This struck me as odd and didn’t seem to be a temporary thing. They told me as I was just about to walk down the first fairway and I didn’t think to ask why as it surprised me, and I left directly after the round. Has anyone else seen a higher end course deliberately forego rakes?  What’s the rationale?  Their peak season rate is $160 and it seems strange to have clientele pay that kind of fee and have footprints all over the bunkers. 

[golfortennis]

Don't have any answers to your questions, but thanks for posting this.  I am trying to figure out what courses to play when I am down in that relative neck of the woods.  You just saved me from paying to find this out. 

[Abh159]

Pine Valley doesn't have rakes

 

 

[jpt1101]

2 hours ago, golfortennis said:

Don't have any answers to your questions, but thanks for posting this.  I am trying to figure out what courses to play when I am down in that relative neck of the woods.  You just saved me from paying to find this out. 

It’s still one of the best public courses in the Palm Beach area.  The no rake issue would be the only downside there if the course fits your budget. 

[jpt1101]

3 hours ago, Abh159 said:

Pine Valley doesn't have rakes

 

 

I’ve never been but would think that PV gets a lot less traffic than a popular muni, plus would think those at PV are more diligent about smoothing their footprints with their feet than the general public would. 

[596]

I'm all for no rakes.  Bunkers are a hazard.  Love it when people complain about a bad lie in a hazard.  Bunkers are one of the easiest shots in golf.   No need for a manicured lie in a bunker, it's supposed to be penal. 

 

Rakes get expensive, maintenance on traps is expensive, maintenance moving those rakes in and out of bunkers is a pain, hitting a rake with a ball is never a great thing, people don't rake traps anyways, or they don't know how, the rakes are left everywhere, and it all slows play.  Just get rid of the rakes and all is well.   

 

Never seen a course with no rakes.  But have played a few with rakes on every cart instead of on the course.

[golfortennis]

1 hour ago, 596 said:

I'm all for no rakes.  Bunkers are a hazard.  Love it when people complain about a bad lie in a hazard.  Bunkers are one of the easiest shots in golf.   No need for a manicured lie in a bunker, it's supposed to be penal. 

 

Rakes get expensive, maintenance on traps is expensive, maintenance moving those rakes in and out of bunkers is a pain, hitting a rake with a ball is never a great thing, people don't rake traps anyways, or they don't know how, the rakes are left everywhere, and it all slows play.  Just get rid of the rakes and all is well.   

 

Never seen a course with no rakes.  But have played a few with rakes on every cart instead of on the course.

 

 

It's supposed to be penal is a very different from this though.  It's one thing if you plug or get buried from your shot hitting the sand a certain way.  It's quite another to have your ball 2 inches below the level of the sand because some jackwagon three groups in front of you couldn't be bothered to anything about his footprints.  Long grass is supposed to be penal, but everyone plays the same grass(ie it was long for the first group and long for the last group).   Some d-bag's footprints in a bunker are not rub of the green.  

 

Can't agree with you on this one.  If rakes are such a problem, then a course can have no bunkers.  But if you are going to have them,  then do them right, IMHO.

 

 

[Curmudg3on]

1 hour ago, 596 said:

Rakes get expensive

 

1 hour ago, 596 said:

But have played a few with rakes on every cart instead of on the course

 

obviously the rakes on every cart weren't expensive.   The cost of the bunker is significant, the rake, not so much.

[Abh159]

2 hours ago, jpt1101 said:

I’ve never been but would think that PV gets a lot less traffic than a popular muni, plus would think those at PV are more diligent about smoothing their footprints with their feet than the general public would. 

You asked if other “higher end courses” didn’t have rakes. 
 

I answered 😉

 

 

[jpt1101]

1 hour ago, Abh159 said:

You asked if other “higher end courses” didn’t have rakes. 
 

I answered 😉

 

 

Accurate. 

[smashdn]

Smooth the worst of the "disturbance" with your foot.  I have found courses with good sand, that foot prints aren't any worse than playing from a raked spot.

 

Now you got a course with deep flash-faced bunkers that are a step down into, you may leave a print where a ball can hang up in.

 

And have seen places play all sand as "sandy waste" with minimal maint.

[FlashinLeather]

On 10/31/2022 at 2:38 PM, golfortennis said:

Don't have any answers to your questions, but thanks for posting this.  I am trying to figure out what courses to play when I am down in that relative neck of the woods.  You just saved me from paying to find this out. 

With or without rakes this is one of the best public options in the area.

[ilikegolf26]

On 11/3/2022 at 10:22 AM, smashdn said:

Smooth the worst of the "disturbance" with your foot.  I have found courses with good sand, that foot prints aren't any worse than playing from a raked spot.

 

Now you got a course with deep flash-faced bunkers that are a step down into, you may leave a print where a ball can hang up in.

 

And have seen places play all sand as "sandy waste" with minimal maint.

Yep, I’ve played several courses where all the sand was just waste area. OP, what was consistency of sand? Was it fluffy or was it relatively harder pack?

[jpt1101]

3 hours ago, ilikegolf26 said:

Yep, I’ve played several courses where all the sand was just waste area. OP, what was consistency of sand? Was it fluffy or was it relatively harder pack?

The sand is fluffy in the green side bunkers. They have a few waste areas and I understand not having rakes in those, but the green side bunkers are traditional bunkers, which is why I found it odd. 
 

I would still recommend anyone play it as it really is a nice course, just the not having rakes thing is strange to me. 

[North Butte]

Somebody on a committee somewhere wanting to prove a beard-puller point about the Real Meaning Of Golf it sounds like. That no rakes thing has been a shibboleth of true believer golf architecture fanatics for a long time, they love to bang on and on about how raking bunkers destroys the soul of the game. Or something, I always dozed off before they got to the point.

 

If I were King of Golf I'd just do away with rakes and do away with any Rules having to do with bunkers. Pits full of sand would be just parts of the course no different than fairway, rough or a bunch of pine straw under a tree. 

[jpt1101]

Update:  I called the course to ask about the no rake decision and they said that they do have some rakes on the course around some of the more frequently visited bunkers. I didn’t see any when I was there but perhaps I just missed them, and the starter did tell me before teeing off that they didn’t have any rakes. Regardless, they said that the decision of limiting the number of rakes was a decision to help speed up pace of play.

[chisag]

On 10/31/2022 at 3:39 PM, 596 said:

I'm all for no rakes.  Bunkers are a hazard.  Love it when people complain about a bad lie in a hazard.  Bunkers are one of the easiest shots in golf.   No need for a manicured lie in a bunker, it's supposed to be penal. 

 

 

... My home course is an excellent muni hosting many tournaments including a Phoenix Open qualifier. But it is also played by many high index players. Mostof the bunkers in the fairway and green side have the fairway sloping into them and while a good player can play away from them, even they hit bad shots occasionally and find themselves in the bunker. And in winter with hard fast fairways it is difficult to avoid them. So making them more penal for high index players that are in them constantly would really slooooow play. As it is many take 2 or more shots to get out so sitting in a foot print would be brutal. 

[Bonneville85308]

If there is any kind of course I come across that doesn't put out bunker rakes, it's always the very low-end ones. These courses usually have rock-hard poorly maintained bunkers where you don't make much in the way of footprints playing in them anyway, and a rake wouldn't be of much use.

Edited November 6, 2022 by Bonneville85308

[chisag]

17 minutes ago, Bonneville85308 said:

If there is any kind of course I come across that doesn't put out bunker rakes, it's always the very low-end ones. These courses usually have rock-hard poorly maintained bunkers where you don't make much in the way of footprints playing in them anyway, and a rake wouldn't be of much use.

 

... Haha as you know here in Phoenix some really nice (expensive) courses have zero sand in them. All a rake would do is make noise while moving the few pebbles on top of the hardpan. 

[North Butte]

The course where I learned to play golf back in the 90's has since fallen on hard times. Not that it was ever all that nice.

 

The last time I was there a few years ago, what few bunkers they had were basically abandoned. They mostly were cracked hardpan with a few weeds growing in and a few had basically "grassed" themselves over with various weedy herbaceous species. 

 

But there was this one shallow bunker in front of the ninth green that had two rakes and about an inch-deep layer of fairly new looking sand. It was a bona fide, regulation bunker like you'd see on a nice golf course.

 

No idea what was special about that one bunker on that one hole. Maybe they were planning on gradually reestablishing bunkers and that was the first one. Or maybe they'd been out taking photos for their Facebook page, who knows.

 

I was almost disappointed that my approach shot stopped rolling inches to the right of the bunker, leaving a simple putt from the fringe. It might have been nice to play out that bunker they had so generously prepared with fresh sand. 

[sratacik]

Good to hear all the positive reviews on the course...will be in the area this winter and plan on checking it out.

[Moonbison]

That is interesting. Over here in the Tampa Bay area, the lower courses have rakes and the patrons choose not to use them. So I guess the other side of that coin. Lol