Did anyone actually find the Mizuno 223 to be an upgrade over the MP20 MMC?

[RoyalMustang]

Honest question, not trolling here.  Just wondering if anyone really felt them to be an upgrade. 

 

I have been playing the MMC for 2 years and they have been a reliable iron for me. I started with them as an 18-cap or so and am now around 5. They reward a good shot, provide great feel and trajectory, plenty of spin, and don't punish mistakes harshly. 

 

I loaned a set of 223s for a couple of weeks and they just didn't feel like any sort of upgrade. The shots were identical, the irons didn't feel quite as crisp for some reason. I was expecting maybe some sort of slight upgrade, but I suppose my old irons will just get new grips for now. 

 

Perhaps it was the different configuration though. DG120X on mine vs Nippon 115x. 

[gdb99]

From what I have seen for reviews, the 223’s are totally different construction. I understand they have stronger lofts. If that’s an upgrade to you, then yes. If not, then no. 
Those MMC’s are great looking and feeling irons. 

[Phabs]

Wasn’t a big enough difference for me or my game to justify a switch.  

[bvanlieu]

If you are a mid/low cap you hitting your share of GIR and moving within the same class of iron I would not expect much of any change. Yes shaft deltas could very much have effected your experience but even with the same shafts, the differences should be subtle.

 

Over time, the longer irons may provide a bit more forgiveness, playing a bunch of rounds you may hit a toe shot that carries a few yards further, doesn't pitch in the bunker, gives you an easier shot at par. It will take a bunch of rounds to notice this, or a few sessions on a LM and a lot of data analysis, perhaps you can see oh yes this is working a bit better or not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ernotte]

I don't have a comment on the irons, but great work on lowering your handicap that much in only two years!

[GHIN n Juice]

I don’t think the mp lines are supposed to change too much from cycle to cycle.  They are (usually) traditional players irons in 3 models with only minimal changes in feel.  Hence the major upheaval over the boron a few years back.  That was the biggest change ever!

[Phabs]

2 hours ago, GHIN n Juice said:

I don’t think the mp lines are supposed to change too much from cycle to cycle.  They are (usually) traditional players irons in 3 models with only minimal changes in feel.  Hence the major upheaval over the boron a few years back.  That was the biggest change ever!

Yep I had the 919 tours and they did not feel like a Mizuno to me.  

[bnperrone]

I haven’t but the 223 but I did own the MMCs for a bit. The sole geometry should be a substantial change. The additional camber should appeal to players who like more bounce without alienating players who are used to Mizuno’s lower bounce tendencies. It’s essentially the grind they’ve used for Luke Donald in the past. 
 

Otherwise I wouldn’t personally expect much change beyond loft difference affects.

[6R35]

I've played the MP18 MMCs, MP20 MMC and now the 223s. The 223s are definitely more forgiving than the last two versions (MP20 being the least), especially in the 4-7 iron as they are a pocket cavity design with a wider sole. They play more like a mini JPX forged with MP looks. Someone mentioned that are stronger lofted, that is not true, they're all exactly the same. 

[Chunkitgood]

I doubt either is an upgrade over my MP 33’s.  Hard to imagine such a thing, actually.

[RoyalMustang]

On 12/1/2022 at 7:54 AM, ernotte said:

I don't have a comment on the irons, but great work on lowering your handicap that much in only two years!

 

Thanks! If I can get my driver figured out and stop trying to kill the ball each time, I should be able to keep this trajectory! 

[RoyalMustang]

17 hours ago, 6R35 said:

I've played the MP18 MMCs, MP20 MMC and now the 223s. The 223s are definitely more forgiving than the last two versions (MP20 being the least), especially in the 4-7 iron as they are a pocket cavity design with a wider sole. They play more like a mini JPX forged with MP looks. Someone mentioned that are stronger lofted, that is not true, they're all exactly the same. 

 

Interesting. I haven't hit the 4-7 much on the course as my course is short (driver/wedge on most holes; the par 5s are all layups and when you bring out a 4-7, it is always teed on a long par 3).  

 

The 115X shaft on the 223s may have been different enough from my DG120X to feel a difference.  Tough to say I suppose. 

[supadupachalupa]

I think the shaft definitely had an impact on iron feel and performance. I got fitted into the  223s using the Mizuno swing optimizer gadget and it recommended either the 115S or DG120X. I would think that suggests those two shafts would perform similarly and you going X in both wouldn’t be a fair comparison. 

[reamr87]

I notice and prefer the pro 223 over MCC. Per @bnperrone comments above, I notice the difference in the turf interaction mostly. I’ve also played the JPX 921 Forged and MP 18 SC….223 my favorite to date.

 

It might just be how you deliver the club or time/deflect the shaft at impact. 

[golfgolfguru]

Found the 223 to be the worst mizuno I’ve ever played. Feel was too mushy and turf contact was awful. These are not a players cb they look big and clunky. 

[Nixhex524]

I have played both... the 223 look great in the bag and at address, smaller than the MP20 MMC to me which I like, but the MMC were some fantastic irons.  Thin top line gives it a great player look while packing forgiveness as well...  I'd say, if you have the MP20 MMC, probably no need to go to the 223.  

 

I can't remember but I feel like the MMC have a more narrow sole than the 223 and for some reason, the 223 gave me hand and arm pain as I didn't feel they were consistently as good through the ground as the MP20.  I do love the Modus 115 though, that is a fantastic shaft.

[SJL1216]

On 12/1/2022 at 6:30 PM, 6R35 said:

I've played the MP18 MMCs, MP20 MMC and now the 223s. The 223s are definitely more forgiving than the last two versions (MP20 being the least), especially in the 4-7 iron as they are a pocket cavity design with a wider sole. They play more like a mini JPX forged with MP looks. Someone mentioned that are stronger lofted, that is not true, they're all exactly the same. 

Old comment I know. But coming from a feel standpoint how are the 223 compared to MMC? Do they feel more springy because of the slot? 

[Pnwpingi210]

1 hour ago, SJL1216 said:

Old comment I know. But coming from a feel standpoint how are the 223 compared to MMC? Do they feel more springy because of the slot? 

Yes.

 

mmc was more similar to t100.  Mostly tungsten and weight distribution.

 

223 was more toward the t100s or t150. Same loft, higher launch and designed to give a good ball striker more distance with less swing sped input.  It was really their first generation of this type of club in the pro series.

 

edit.  223 has the micro slot in the mid to long irons, which is more compared to the t100s/150 series.  They are also made from chromoly, and I believe have a thinner face to raise COR vs the Mmc.  My anecdotal experience was the Mmc spun and carried around my stock yardages through the set.  The 223 carried about a club stronger once you hit the 7 iron due to a jump in ball speed and reduction in spin.  

 

 

Edited November 5, 2023 by Pnwpingi210
Edit to correct loft statement and anecdotal context

[Frank Newport]

3 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

Yes.

 

mmc was more similar to t100.  Mostly tungsten and weight distribution.

 

223 was more toward the t100s or t150.  Stronger loft, higher launch and designed to give a good ball striker more distance with less swing sped input.  It was really their first generation of this type of club in the pro series.

 

 

You’re objectively wrong.

[Pnwpingi210]

13 minutes ago, Frank Newport said:

You’re objectively wrong.

Well it happens.   What’s incorrect?

 

edit:  looks like lofts are the same/similar between the two sets.  

Edited November 5, 2023 by Pnwpingi210

[Frank Newport]

4 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

Well it happens.   What’s incorrect?

The 223 lofts are not stronger than the MMC.

[Pnwpingi210]

43 minutes ago, Frank Newport said:

The 223 lofts are not stronger than the MMC.

Thanks.  That was helpful

[6R35]

On 11/5/2023 at 7:47 AM, SJL1216 said:

Old comment I know. But coming from a feel standpoint how are the 223 compared to MMC? Do they feel more springy because of the slot? 

Um, I suppose you could come to that conclusion but it's marginal.