Great New TXG Video with Scott Cowx

[Trippels]

17 minutes ago, KD1 said:

I'm trying to be careful of my own confirmation bias here. Is this the same shallowing pattern that AMG promotes in their recent "Pros vs Ams - Shallowing Like You've NEVER Seen Before"?

 

getitdaily said this was a GG move but that's not at all the way I'm seeing it compared to what I thought I understood about what GG teaches (admittedly very little)

 

Also, I'd like to hear in more detail how one should use the pivot to control club face (11m45s).

It's similar at least, with regards to the lowering. Also staying wide, and the "point butt of the club outside the ball" is probably connected to the trail wrist supination AMG talks about.

Not sure they're super fans of the pinning left arm to chest bit a long way into the downswing, but they certainly don't want the arms working forward either, they say the arms/hands stay on the trail side of the body until after impact.

 

AMG also say the pivot doesn't control the club face. All pros have a significant amount of release into impact. You can't just square it with the body.

Although maybe Scott didn't literally mean controlling the club face solely with the pivot, but simply reduce the face turnover with a better pivot.

[rondo01]

1 hour ago, Trippels said:

 

 

AMG also say the pivot doesn't control the club face. All pros have a significant amount of release into impact. You can't just square it with the body.

Although maybe Scott didn't literally mean controlling the club face solely with the pivot, but simply reduce the face turnover with a better pivot.

it’s this. Get the club into position and you’re able to rotate without much manipulation. See around 8-11 min.
 

 

[Goldenchang]

7 hours ago, rondo01 said:

I’m absolutely loving this and wish Scott would publish some sort of document with the swing builder drills for each pattern. I know that’s a dumb idea for him as it’d only cause mass confusion for most (and undercut a reason to see him), but I’d still love to see how he goes about building these things and what the necessary conditions are for each. 

 

Scott does zoom seminars for teachers regarding this maybe every other month.  You'd have to do the basic concepts seminar first before getting to the advanced pattern building one you're after.  Very technical.  Very thorough.

[Anthony Stevens]

At around 7:48 of the original Ian video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2U4nh-3Q_0, Scott says, "We have the shallowness [which is] created by the lead arm adduction". I admit I don't get that at all. How can lead arm adduction in and of itself create shallowness?

 

Can anyone help me understand that?

[Anthony Stevens]

1 hour ago, Anthony Stevens said:

At around 7:48 of the original Ian video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2U4nh-3Q_0, Scott says, "We have the shallowness [which is] created by the lead arm adduction". I admit I don't get that at all. How can lead arm adduction in and of itself create shallowness?

 

Can anyone help me understand that?

Video #2 @ 3:40 solves it. Scott was not saying that adduction would shallow the shaft, but the "fall" (his term) of the lead arm while the arm is pinching in closer to the chest during transition is doing the shallowing.

 

I should note that this is just one of 13 (!) models he teaches.

[MysteryV]

On 2/11/2023 at 1:04 PM, cac022 said:

Hey. How did your lesson go? Really interested in his constant radius underload pattern.  

 

Looking at his IG, everything was tagged with #crunder load pattern.  Couldn't quite figure out what it meant.  Was this terminology from his first lesson with Ian / Matt?

[glk]

15 hours ago, Anthony Stevens said:

At around 7:48 of the original Ian video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2U4nh-3Q_0, Scott says, "We have the shallowness [which is] created by the lead arm adduction". I admit I don't get that at all. How can lead arm adduction in and of itself create shallowness?

 

Can anyone help me understand that?

It is in the chart below but in general things that widen the arc or make it more horizontal shallow.    there is already lead arm adduction in the backswing and a slight increase in transition - not a major shallowing move but one of them - if overdone leads to more issue - lead arm stuck to chest and not working down fast enough so everything gets dumped in release - or can even cause the trail side to react and steepen things - yeah, i know my head hurts too.

 

 

https://golfsmartacademy.s3.amazonaws.com/files/SteepAndShallows.pdf

[MysteryV]

28 minutes ago, glk said:

It is in the chart below but in general things that widen the arc or make it more horizontal shallow.    there is already lead arm adduction in the backswing and a slight increase in transition - not a major shallowing move but one of them - if overdone leads to more issue - lead arm stuck to chest and not working down fast enough so everything gets dumped in release - or can even cause the trail side to react and steepen things - yeah, i know my head hurts too.

 

 

https://golfsmartacademy.s3.amazonaws.com/files/SteepAndShallows.pdf

 

The problem with this pdf is that it classifies "too steep" as "good wedge" and "too shallow" as "good driver".

 

By that rationale, I've been perfectly on plane for years.  

[glk]

11 minutes ago, MysteryV said:

 

The problem with this pdf is that it classifies "too steep" as "good wedge" and "too shallow" as "good driver".

 

By that rationale, I've been perfectly on plane for years.  

basically being steep with a wedge won't necessarily hurt you but being steep with a driver can be a death move - and vice versa.    Can get a way with -8 on a wedge but try that with a driver.

Edited February 18, 2023 by glk

[Krt22]

13 minutes ago, glk said:

basically being steep with a wedge won't necessarily hurt you but being steep with a driver can be a death move - and vice versa.    Can get a way with -8 on a wedge but try that with a driver.

Bingo. Too shallow and positive AoA works with driver when hitting it off a tee.  Good luck with anything off the ground. Below your feet, side hill lie, from the rough, overly shallow is killer

[Nels55]

Interesting video and the teaching looks effective.  However I don't believe that it is possible to play from the drill position:

 

When Ian actually does the drill he raises the club up onto plane so he can hit the ball:

 

It seems that the drill is an exaggeration to teach the student how to accomplish the correct movement? 

[Hilts1969]

10 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

Interesting video and the teaching looks effective.  However I don't believe that it is possible to play from the drill position:
/cdn-cgi/mirage/275be43401a4cf1e689adf776683932a30b86ca738c78b0ae37658fef776b71c/1280/cdn-cgi/mirage/275be43401a4cf1e689adf776683932a30b86ca738c78b0ae37658fef776b71c/1280/https://wrxcdn.golfwrx.com/uploads/monthly_2023_02/Ian-Lesson-Drill.jpg.6146d99307740bbb225f730ee1493779.jpg

 

When Ian actually does the drill he raises the club up onto plane so he can hit the ball:
/cdn-cgi/mirage/275be43401a4cf1e689adf776683932a30b86ca738c78b0ae37658fef776b71c/1280/cdn-cgi/mirage/275be43401a4cf1e689adf776683932a30b86ca738c78b0ae37658fef776b71c/1280/https://wrxcdn.golfwrx.com/uploads/monthly_2023_02/Ian-Lesson-Drill-Actual.jpg.7285fd6daff003ea9a240968b506172e.jpg

 

It seems that the drill is an exaggeration to teach the student how to accomplish the correct movement? 

 

Yeah it's an exaggeration drill for sure. The seat belt feel is an interesting take. 

[Tfb003]

20 minutes ago, Hilts1969 said:

 

Yeah it's an exaggeration drill for sure. The seat belt feel is an interesting take. 

Where did he mention a seat belt I Didn’t catch that? 2nd video?

[MPStrat]

On 2/17/2023 at 11:55 AM, rondo01 said:

it’s this. Get the club into position and you’re able to rotate without much manipulation. See around 8-11 min.
 

 

IMHO:

 

AMG prefers guys like Rose and Rory who from p4-p5 don’t shallow very much. Players like this tend to have a more active release/more grip roll.
 

Because Shaun is close to Manzella, I believe there is some influence from Dr Nesbitt in their teaching. Manzella/Jacobs completely reject the idea that shallowing helps square the face. This is one of the points of contention between the two camps. Sasho vs Nesbitt

 

Guys like Cameron Champ, DJ and Brooks have more pronounced shallowing moves, more early squaring of the face and more passive releases or whatever you want to call it.
 

Both patterns have positives and negatives IMO  
 

 

[rondo01]

8 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

IMHO:

 

AMG prefers guys like Rose and Rory who from p4-p5 don’t shallow very much. Players like this tend to have a more active release/more grip roll.

To my understanding this would be more of what Cowx calls a CR Underload pattern, and it’s what Matt is working on. Ian is apparently learning the Neg Beta Forearm Tracer pattern. 

[MPStrat]

Just now, rondo01 said:

To my understanding this would be more of what Cowx calls a CR Underload pattern, and it’s what Matt is working on. Ian is apparently learning the Neg Beta Forearm Tracer pattern. 

Yes to dumb it down, this is his planar pattern. I have a friend who is taking zoom lessons from Cowx currently. He is learning this pattern. I wrote some details on it in the AMG thread.

 

My reply was in response to Trippels comment regarding AMG. 

[Hilts1969]

40 minutes ago, Tfb003 said:

Where did he mention a seat belt I Didn’t catch that? 2nd video?

Not sure which video it was but it seems like a good feel either car seat belt ie

Left arm down chest or 

Even airplane seat belt for hand path ie left hand works across belt buckle. 

 

 

[mattwood]

i found this one even more informative. Scott has a brilliant mind for the golf swing.

[MysteryV]

On 2/18/2023 at 9:04 AM, glk said:

basically being steep with a wedge won't necessarily hurt you but being steep with a driver can be a death move - and vice versa.    Can get a way with -8 on a wedge but try that with a driver.

 

I think my joke may have been poorly worded.  As my buddy used to say (sarcastically) "The best jokes are the ones you have to explain".

 

My bad.

 

PS - the dumb joke was that if your driver should be good if you're shallow, and your wedge should be good if you're steep - you must be perfectly on plan if both your wedge and driver stink.  😄 

Edited February 19, 2023 by MysteryV

[naj959]

Matt's 2nd Lesson. It's my understanding that Scott studied with Mac for a period. The constant radius pattern does seem Morad-ish to these untrained eyes. I thought the info on elbow positioning and how it relates to angle of attack and rate of face closure was pretty fascinating. It makes so much sense when he explains it in such a simple fashion.

 

 

[mattwood]

I recently read where Scott said he has never met Mac but likes a lot of what he teaches.

 

 

[Nels55]

On 2/18/2023 at 1:05 PM, Hilts1969 said:

 

Yeah it's an exaggeration drill for sure. The seat belt feel is an interesting take. 

I feel for anyone who tends to take drills literally if they try to do that drill!  Getting drills out of context can be a real bad thing...  If I did that drill without any guidance I would work on it until I could hit the position on a real swing on video.  LOL

Edited February 21, 2023 by Nels55
typo

[naj959]

19 hours ago, mattwood said:

I recently read where Scott said he has never met Mac but likes a lot of what he teaches.

 

 

I read in another thread he had but we all know how reliable word of mouth is. So that's definitely possible he never has. Just thought is it was cool if he did. The Inline pattern looks S&T-ish to me. Again, just my uninformed observations. 

[Fairways_and_Greens]

On 2/21/2023 at 3:58 PM, naj959 said:

I read in another thread he had but we all know how reliable word of mouth is. So that's definitely possible he never has. Just thought is it was cool if he did. The Inline pattern looks S&T-ish to me. Again, just my uninformed observations. 

Is there anything he’s done that explains high level his patterns? Love his videos with TXG. 

[naj959]

8 hours ago, Fairways_and_Greens said:

Is there anything he’s done that explains high level his patterns? Love his videos with TXG. 

Not that I've found. He does offer certification courses but I would imagine those are geared towards teaching professionals. Might be a little too advanced and pricey for the average weekend warrior. I'd like to take them at some point but it won't be happening anytime soon. 

[Fairways_and_Greens]

9 hours ago, naj959 said:

Not that I've found. He does offer certification courses but I would imagine those are geared towards teaching professionals. Might be a little too advanced and pricey for the average weekend warrior. I'd like to take them at some point but it won't be happening anytime soon. 

When he was talking the “elephant trunk” pattern with Ian, he said it was for shorter folks with limited right shoulder mobility, which describes me accurately. 

[naj959]

@Fairways_and_Greens I'm average height at 5'10 but fairly muscular at 175-190 lbs depending on if I'm bulking or cutting. I feel like I should hit it farther then I do. Low 100s mph driver with 250 carry. I've been working on a steep to shallow pattern anyway so I really think this is a good model for me. I missed the part regarding shoulder limitations, but I am pretty flexible. Did you catch the latest video regarding torqueing the lead foot for speed?

[Fairways_and_Greens]

20 hours ago, naj959 said:

@Fairways_and_Greens I'm average height at 5'10 but fairly muscular at 175-190 lbs depending on if I'm bulking or cutting. I feel like I should hit it farther than I do. Low 100s mph driver with 250 carry. I've been working on a steep to shallow pattern anyway so I really think this is a good model for me. I missed the part regarding shoulder limitations, but I am pretty flexible. Did you catch the latest video regarding torqueing the lead foot for speed?

I’m similar. 5’9 180. I think the elephant trunk pattern has similarities with Monty’s cast drill, and AMGs shallowing videos.  
 

Cowx again compared the elephant trunk pattern to Rory and Xanders swings, as well as touching on shoulder mobility in the into of Ians second video. 
 

The pill bottle analogy is super similar to what Gankas was preaching which his lead leg, just a different feel. 

[rebel11]

On 2/18/2023 at 11:05 AM, MysteryV said:

 

Looking at his IG, everything was tagged with #crunder load pattern.  Couldn't quite figure out what it meant.  Was this terminology from his first lesson with Ian / Matt?

 

You're correct on the Constant Radius Underload Patter.  He's teaching the right handed guy the Elephant Trunk Pattern which is modeled after Rory McIlroy.  If you want to see more about what they look like Scott Cowx has them all tagged on IG.  #crunderloadpatter #elephantstrunkpattern #negbetaforearmtracerpattern #cobrapattern .....Those are 4 of the main ones.  He has about 13 patterns total.  There is a past from last year where he listed them all. I'll see if I can find it and post here. 

[Fairways_and_Greens]

8 hours ago, rebel11 said:

 

You're correct on the Constant Radius Underload Patter.  He's teaching the right handed guy the Elephant Trunk Pattern which is modeled after Rory McIlroy.  If you want to see more about what they look like Scott Cowx has them all tagged on IG.  #crunderloadpatter #elephantstrunkpattern #negbetaforearmtracerpattern #cobrapattern .....Those are 4 of the main ones.  He has about 13 patterns total.  There is a past from last year where he listed them all. I'll see if I can find it and post here. 

Nice. Is Patrick Cantley also an elephant trunk swinger too?