41 degree pitching wedge.. "Longest irons ever". Grandma just smoked a 9 iron 200 yards. (***MERGED***)

[Red4282]

1 hour ago, TheOverratedPhotog said:

 

I am hitting it both longer on good shots and longer on bad shots. You cannot honestly tell me there have been zero improvements in shaft technology alone that would allow a club to hit further and straighter? Never mind the improvement in the face of clubs that would create a bigger sweet spot, or potentially increase the distance you get out of the sweet spot? Over 15 years? If you believe nothing has improved you're kidding yourself

There has been ZERO  improvements out of the middle of the face over the last 15 years. You will still get the 1.5 smash with some from 15 years ago. If you are hitting it much further its 99% due to a better fit, and most likely just lower in spin.

[TheOverratedPhotog]

34 minutes ago, Red4282 said:

There has been ZERO  improvements out of the middle of the face over the last 15 years. You will still get the 1.5 smash with some from 15 years ago. If you are hitting it much further its 99% due to a better fit, and most likely just lower in spin.

Lol. i can point you to about 20 tests that would dispute, not to mention that a 15 shaft would lose its flex over time resulting in poorer performance. You must be trolling so this conversion is done

[klebs01]

5 hours ago, MrCook said:

 

What do you mean 'that's 5 iron'? There's zero correlation between lie angle and loft. Lie needs to fit the length of the club, not the loft.

A 29* iron in my set is usually called a 5 iron. To get the performance I’m after I would want it to be 37.75” and 60* lie angle and d3 with a 115-120g shaft. Regardless of the number that’s a lot more adjustments than I used to need to get the performance I’m after. I’m not looking for distance on and iron, especially by just changing the numbers on the bottom. I want each club to hit a performance window. The wedges also press problem with multiple clubs at the same length. More adjustments needed there. 

[klebs01]

Double post

Edited January 20, 2023 by klebs01

[klebs01]

Double post

Edited January 20, 2023 by klebs01

[MrCook]

21 minutes ago, klebs01 said:

A 29* iron in my set is usually called a 5 iron. To get the performance I’m after I would want it to be 37.75” and 60* lie angle and d3 with a 115-120g shaft. Regardless of the number that’s a lot more adjustments than I used to need to get the performance I’m after. I’m not looking for distance on and iron, especially by just changing the numbers on the bottom. I want each club to hit a performance window. The wedges also press problem with multiple clubs at the same length. More adjustments needed there. 

 

Okay, well I guess you could say lie and length are off. I personally would say it's just the loft that is off, since length and lie still fit that of a 7 iron.

 

It also means that a 35°+ 7 iron will perform the way you want it to perform, which in return also means you have zero means of even looking at a set like this.

 

So, I'm still trying to figure out what your point actually is. It's not like you can't just a buy a traditionally lofted set and be done with. Is it that you want a modern, techy, GI-style set with traditional lofts? That's about the only scenario in which any of what you're saying would make sense to me. But seeing that you're around scratch as well as looking at your avatar, I don't think that's the case. Please, help me here.

[gator022]

On 1/12/2023 at 12:24 PM, ChipNRun said:

 

 

Ah, the 20* 5i.  Reminds me of Tom Wishon's 24/38 Rule: The average golfer cannot reliably hit an iron with less than 24* loft, or a shaft length greater than 38 inches.

 

My Mavrik MAX irons have a 23.5* 5i, but I can hit it OK because I went to lighter graphite shafts, increasing my clubhead speed. And because the MAXs have greater loft to get me airborne, I hit MAX irons a full club longer than the lower-lofted standard Marviks.

 

I'm curious about Wishon's 24/38 rule.  Does that still apply given today's more forgiving, hotter iron heads?  I'm curious as to the timing of when this rule came out and then also what he/we define as "average" golfer.  What handicap is that?  Anything above 10? 

 

Curious as to thoughts here....

[Bad9]

1 hour ago, TheOverratedPhotog said:

Lol. i can point you to about 20 tests that would dispute, not to mention that a 15 shaft would lose its flex over time resulting in poorer performance. You must be trolling so this conversion is done

 

I'd be interested in seeing at least some of those 20 tests.

[ChipNRun]

On 1/12/2023 at 3:25 PM, ChipNRun said:

 

Most iron sets these days have a GW designed as part of the set. But, to keep to a seven-club mix, many are offered as a 4-PW or a 5-GW.

 

For smaller on-course and even country-club golf shops, the GWs are problematic. So many iron sets come now with a GW, they are leery of stocking too many specialty GWs. ...  One shop was selling off a new brand-name GW for $70. ...  Shop rep said no one at club would buy a specialty GW, since they came in iron sets.

 

On 1/12/2023 at 3:30 PM, black bnr32 said:

My experience is the opposite.  The local store sets only go up to PW.  

 

I would suggest this varies shop to shop. I talked to that shop rep at a pre-COVID event. Since then, with some supply chain ripples, some OEMs did a minimize on GW output. For my MAXs, GWs were on back-order at the time, as were 4i. (Interesting note: the run on 4 irons came in part because some std Mavrik set buyers picked up a MAX 4i because std Mav 4i was hard to launch.)

 

At the time, safe Mav family orders featured 5i-PW.

 

Now, whiteside (non-course) golf shop I frequent says club ordering pretty much back to pre-COVID flow, with exception of a few very popular models.

[klebs01]

13 minutes ago, MrCook said:

 

Okay, well I guess you could say lie and length are off. I personally would say it's just the loft that is off, since length and lie still fit that of a 7 iron.

 

It also means that a 35°+ 7 iron will perform the way you want it to perform, which in return also means you have zero means of even looking at a set like this.

 

So, I'm still trying to figure out what your point actually is. It's not like you can't just a buy a traditionally lofted set and be done with. Is it that you want a modern, techy, GI-style set with traditional lofts? That's about the only scenario in which any of what you're saying would make sense to me. But seeing that you're around scratch as well as looking at your avatar, I don't think that's the case. Please, help me here.

this set is an extreme example, but it’s now trickled down to players sets like mizuno pro irons. The 223s are now a 44* pw. I have to decide if I want them to be bent weak but then the bounce increases or some other option. Or only be able to have the 221s, but those are even a little strong lofted. Just frustrating. 

[Red4282]

1 hour ago, TheOverratedPhotog said:

Lol. i can point you to about 20 tests that would dispute, not to mention that a 15 shaft would lose its flex over time resulting in poorer performance. You must be trolling so this conversion is done

Ok lets see the tests. My comment also had nothing to do with shafts. Losing flex…. Ha.

[MrCook]

3 minutes ago, klebs01 said:

this set is an extreme example, but it’s now trickled down to players sets like mizuno pro irons. The 223s are now a 44* pw. I have to decide if I want them to be bent weak but then the bounce increases or some other option. Or only be able to have the 221s, but those are even a little strong lofted. Just frustrating. 

 

Okay, it took a while but now I see your point. I guess you're right, there are very few modern sets that are really what you could consider 'traditionally' lofted. Even less so if you want something that is not a blade.

[Red4282]

53 minutes ago, gator022 said:

 

I'm curious about Wishon's 24/38 rule.  Does that still apply given today's more forgiving, hotter iron heads?  I'm curious as to the timing of when this rule came out and then also what he/we define as "average" golfer.  What handicap is that?  Anything above 10? 

 

Curious as to thoughts here....

If what i understand about 24/38 is correct, yes id say that still applies

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

5 hours ago, TheOverratedPhotog said:

 

I am hitting it both longer on good shots and longer on bad shots. You cannot honestly tell me there have been zero improvements in shaft technology alone that would allow a club to hit further and straighter? Never mind the improvement in the face of clubs that would create a bigger sweet spot, or potentially increase the distance you get out of the sweet spot? Over 15 years? If you believe nothing has improved you're kidding yourself

I thought we were specifically talking about just the head. You never mention shafts till now. I’m talking just the head alone. Look, let’s just agree to disagree. But I get it. You spent a ton of money on your new equipment. So yeah I’d tell myself also so that way I didn’t feel like I wasted a lot of money.  

Edited January 20, 2023 by I'_rather_be_golfing

[TheOverratedPhotog]

8 hours ago, Bad9 said:

 

I'd be interested in seeing at least some of those 20 tests.

 

1. https://golfible.com/are-new-golf-drivers-really-better/

2. https://golf.com/gear/drivers/how-far-has-distance-increased-5-drivers-from-different-years/ shows 20 yards difference which matches the example I used.

3. https://scramble.golftec.com/blog/2020/05/old-vs-new-how-a-modern-driver-blows-away-the-15-year-old-faithful/ 22 yard difference which again matches the example I used

4. https://www.todays-golfer.com/features/equipment-features/2018/june/tested-old-vs-new-drivers/ 12 yard gain in 5 years, never mind 15

5. https://pluggedingolf.com/are-new-drivers-really-better-golf-myths-unplugged/ 

6. https://practical-golf.com/modern-vs-classic-golf-equipment-tested-what-has-changed/

7. https://www.golfwrx.com/643579/are-new-clubs-really-better/

8. You can find the rest yourself, that was a 3 minute search

 

 

[klebs01]

1 hour ago, TheOverratedPhotog said:

 

1. https://golfible.com/are-new-golf-drivers-really-better/

2. https://golf.com/gear/drivers/how-far-has-distance-increased-5-drivers-from-different-years/ shows 20 yards difference which matches the example I used.

3. https://scramble.golftec.com/blog/2020/05/old-vs-new-how-a-modern-driver-blows-away-the-15-year-old-faithful/ 22 yard difference which again matches the example I used

4. https://www.todays-golfer.com/features/equipment-features/2018/june/tested-old-vs-new-drivers/ 12 yard gain in 5 years, never mind 15

5. https://pluggedingolf.com/are-new-drivers-really-better-golf-myths-unplugged/ 

6. https://practical-golf.com/modern-vs-classic-golf-equipment-tested-what-has-changed/

7. https://www.golfwrx.com/643579/are-new-clubs-really-better/

8. You can find the rest yourself, that was a 3 minute search

 

 

#7 was the only article I read an it supported his argument, not yours. It directly said center shots aren’t any longer. 

[TheOverratedPhotog]

53 minutes ago, klebs01 said:

#7 was the only article I read an it supported his argument, not yours. It directly said center shots aren’t any longer. 

Lol. So you cherry picked #7 and ignored ignored the article’s saying the opposite and which supports it with data. Sounds like intentional selective reading

[klebs01]

Just now, TheOverratedPhotog said:

Lol. So you cherry picked #7 and ignored ignored the article’s saying the opposite and which supports it with data. Sounds like intentional selective reading

Ha. Just picked it because it was just a wrx article. No other reason. 

[Red4282]

2 hours ago, TheOverratedPhotog said:

 

1. https://golfible.com/are-new-golf-drivers-really-better/

2. https://golf.com/gear/drivers/how-far-has-distance-increased-5-drivers-from-different-years/ shows 20 yards difference which matches the example I used.

3. https://scramble.golftec.com/blog/2020/05/old-vs-new-how-a-modern-driver-blows-away-the-15-year-old-faithful/ 22 yard difference which again matches the example I used

4. https://www.todays-golfer.com/features/equipment-features/2018/june/tested-old-vs-new-drivers/ 12 yard gain in 5 years, never mind 15

5. https://pluggedingolf.com/are-new-drivers-really-better-golf-myths-unplugged/ 

6. https://practical-golf.com/modern-vs-classic-golf-equipment-tested-what-has-changed/

7. https://www.golfwrx.com/643579/are-new-clubs-really-better/

8. You can find the rest yourself, that was a 3 minute search

 

 

As i figured, the newest ones had optimal launch and spin while the others did not. The speed out of the middle was nearly the same.

[Red4282]

2 hours ago, TheOverratedPhotog said:

 

1. https://golfible.com/are-new-golf-drivers-really-better/

2. https://golf.com/gear/drivers/how-far-has-distance-increased-5-drivers-from-different-years/ shows 20 yards difference which matches the example I used.

3. https://scramble.golftec.com/blog/2020/05/old-vs-new-how-a-modern-driver-blows-away-the-15-year-old-faithful/ 22 yard difference which again matches the example I used

4. https://www.todays-golfer.com/features/equipment-features/2018/june/tested-old-vs-new-drivers/ 12 yard gain in 5 years, never mind 15

5. https://pluggedingolf.com/are-new-drivers-really-better-golf-myths-unplugged/ 

6. https://practical-golf.com/modern-vs-classic-golf-equipment-tested-what-has-changed/

7. https://www.golfwrx.com/643579/are-new-clubs-really-better/

8. You can find the rest yourself, that was a 3 minute search

 

 

Also, most of those are EXTREMELY biased in they have an interest in telling you the best is the modern. They either sell clubs or take advertisements from oems. Sheesh.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Red4282

[Tree Levino]

11 minutes ago, Red4282 said:

Also, most of those are EXTREMELY biased in they have an interest in telling you the best is the modern. They either sell clubs or take advertisements from oems. Sheesh.

Here’s like 30 years of driving distances on tour. Dudes were averaging 320 20 years ago. It’s not as different as OEMs would have you believe. 

[Canyonaro]

11 hours ago, gator022 said:

 

I'm curious about Wishon's 24/38 rule.  Does that still apply given today's more forgiving, hotter iron heads?  I'm curious as to the timing of when this rule came out and then also what he/we define as "average" golfer.  What handicap is that?  Anything above 10? 

 

Curious as to thoughts here....

 

I'm a 3 hdcp and my longest iron is 24 degrees and 38 inches long (labeled 5-iron). I hit it about 180. 

 

When I was in my 20s and was hitting a 37-degree 8-iron 150 yards, my longest iron was 24 degrees and 38.5" long (labeled 4-iron), and I hit it about 185.

 

Even then, I never had a lot of confidence with the 4-iron. I think Wishon's rule holds.

 

In the strongest-lofted new sets, the intent is for 6-iron to be the highest iron before you go to hybrids. They make sense for the targeted player. Most golfers should be looking at LPGA bag makeups for guidance. 

 

The complainers on here are whining that golf companies make products for people other than them. It's like complaining that minivans exist when you drive a sports car. I'll never understand it. 

[Canyonaro]

1 minute ago, TigerInTheWoods said:

Here’s like 30 years of driving distances on tour. Dudes were averaging 320 20 years ago. It’s not as different as OEMs would have you believe. 

I think most people are clear that on center strikes, distance has been limited since 2005. I thought TM might've been exploiting a loophole by switching to carbon faces (somehow getting faster ball speeds at the same CT number) but that doesn't appear to be the case. 
 

The TM SLDR is the longest driver I've ever played when I button it. But the newer drivers have significantly bigger sweet spots than a decade ago. My AVERAGE distance has improved because my strikes stray & some of the new ones don't spin up nearly as much on low strikes. 

[Red4282]

23 minutes ago, Canyonaro said:

I think most people are clear that on center strikes, distance has been limited since 2005. I thought TM might've been exploiting a loophole by switching to carbon faces (somehow getting faster ball speeds at the same CT number) but that doesn't appear to be the case. 
 

The TM SLDR is the longest driver I've ever played when I button it. But the newer drivers have significantly bigger sweet spots than a decade ago. My AVERAGE distance has improved because my strikes stray & some of the new ones don't spin up nearly as much on low strikes. 

This is a reasonable and accurate take, but Id say its minimal-(in my opinion)

[Lasorcier]

The John Daly streak in that data is truly impressive I must say.

[philly2kuk]

3 hours ago, Canyonaro said:

 

I'm a 3 hdcp and my longest iron is 24 degrees and 38 inches long (labeled 5-iron). I hit it about 180. 

 

When I was in my 20s and was hitting a 37-degree 8-iron 150 yards, my longest iron was 24 degrees and 38.5" long (labeled 4-iron), and I hit it about 185.

 

Even then, I never had a lot of confidence with the 4-iron. I think Wishon's rule holds.

 

In the strongest-lofted new sets, the intent is for 6-iron to be the highest iron before you go to hybrids. They make sense for the targeted player. Most golfers should be looking at LPGA bag makeups for guidance. 

 

The complainers on here are whining that golf companies make products for people other than them. It's like complaining that minivans exist when you drive a sports car. I'll never understand it. 

My 4 iron is 20.5 degrees and I can hit it pretty consistently. However I cannot hit the g430 4 iron for the life of me - I’ve tried. It’s 19 degrees and that 1.5 degrees made a world of difference for me.

 

I also recognise I’m an anomaly as most people I know with ping g410 or 425 irons don’t carry the 4. When you consider woods and wedges go by loft, we might as well have irons by loft and be done with it.

[el_caporal]

I don’t play (but like) the idea of Ping’s stock spec offerings (power/ retro). Any time I look at irons it’s like “ok how would I need to tweak the whole bag?” End up w/ 2x of. everything. Which is fun to build, but more so frustrating. Yeh… numbers are near pointless. And I don’t want a 5 < 24* or a PW < 44*… which is still ~aggressive. And I don’t like/ want more hybrids than I have to. 

[TheOverratedPhotog]

5 hours ago, Red4282 said:

Also, most of those are EXTREMELY biased in they have an interest in telling you the best is the modern. They either sell clubs or take advertisements from oems. Sheesh.

 

And yet the average driving distance by year shows an upward trend which is with people who are most likely to hit the sweet spot. So can you tell me how they haven't improved?

I took the liberty of converting those longest driving figures into a chart so you can see how obvious this is.

This is what people would call "a trend".

 

Edited January 21, 2023 by TheOverratedPhotog
This is what people would call a trend

[Red4282]

3 hours ago, TheOverratedPhotog said:

 

And yet the average driving distance by year shows an upward trend which is with people who are most likely to hit the sweet spot. So can you tell me how they haven't improved?

I took the liberty of converting those longest driving figures into a chart so you can see how obvious this is.

This is what people would call "a trend".

 

/cdn-cgi/mirage/e7549045455b02c1e4dd55cd9c158750b835c990d012716c6b42e7ec2c92bbec/1280/cdn-cgi/mirage/e7549045455b02c1e4dd55cd9c158750b835c990d012716c6b42e7ec2c92bbec/1280/https://wrxcdn.golfwrx.com/uploads/monthly_2023_01/Picture1.png.1a23d555efe8b5bd935c16b05fb1dee6.png

You have to clearly throw out everything pre 2000. That was before prov1 when everyone was playing wound balls. Since 2003, on your chart, there isnt much upward tick, if anything it had stayed relatively the same until last year.  You can even contribute the massive bump to the recent surge of bryson and a youth movement. It’s certainly not tech in clubs because like I said, clubs from 2008 WILL GIVE YOU 1.5 SMASH/EFFICIENCY, the exact same as modern drovers. It has been maxed out for well over 15 years. Have they become mildly more forgiving? Yes. But even that has really been maxed out for 6-7 years now.

[counselor]

I recently demoed the G 430 irons. I liked the looks, flight  and sound. The problem, which I believe has become lost in this discussion, is in constructing a 14 club set.

my longest iron for some time has been a 7 iron. I play 4,5 and 6 hybrids. I also play 54 and 58 degree specialty wedges. I have thus played 7,8,9,w/p and u/g in my setup. 

The Ping G430 irons are as follows:

7 iron 37” 29*; 8 iron 36,5 33* 9 iron 36” 37* , w 35.5 41* then 45:5*club and 50 * clubs, both at 35.5”. 

The Ping G 425 irons are as follows:

7 iron 37” 30*, 8 iron 36.5” 34.5*, 9 iron 36”,39.5*, w 35.5”,44.5*, u 35.5” 49.5* 

If I were to buy the G430s, I would likely have to purchase 6 irons. I don’t see how else I could do it. The 7 iron is only 1* stronger than the G425. The problem comes as you move up the set. If I buy 6 irons, I now have 15 clubs and would have to remove another club from my set. That’s the problem that I see. I thus opted for the G425 irons, 7_U wedge and don’t have to struggle with what other club to remove.