Tobacco Road Prices 2.5x from last year?

[tngolf22]

1 hour ago, monty09 said:

 

 

what else do you hold to 2000-2005 prices? Milk? Gasoline? house? car?  

Comparing dairy/fuel/housing/transportation to entertainment is comparing apples to oranges, but I get your point.  I don't expect prices to always stay the same, even adjusting for inflation.  We all have a threshold of what we're willing/not willing to pay, and a golf course would have be on a "bucket list" for me to even think about paying over $150 for.  

 

It's all about supply and demand.  If TR can get away with charging those fees, more power to them.  I was a member at River Ridge in Raleigh from 2002-2016.  The dues were about $122/month in 2005, and $176/month in 2016.  That hardly compares with the rate of increase in courses like TR.  Has TR gotten 2.5 times better since I played it?  I highly doubt it, but like I said, we all have a threshold and more power to them if they can keep the tee sheet full.  BTW River Ridge (according to their website) is STILL $176/month and is a great layout.

[monty09]

1 minute ago, smashdn said:

 

Which is why I compared it to what other upper end public courses are currently charging.

 

 

And got subsequently crucified.  

 

 

if you look at the "market" in pinehurst... everything went up... i remember the days of TR $100 Pine Needles, Southern Pines $140 and #2 sub $300

 

 

 

those days are long gone sadly 

[monty09]

Just now, tngolf22 said:

Comparing dairy/fuel/housing/transportation to entertainment is comparing apples to oranges, but I get your point.  I don't expect prices to always stay the same, even adjusting for inflation.  We all have a threshold of what we're willing/not willing to pay, and a golf course would have be on a "bucket list" for me to even think about paying over $150 for.  

 

It's all about supply and demand.  If TR can get away with charging those fees, more power to them.  I was a member at River Ridge in Raleigh from 2002-2016.  The dues were about $122/month in 2005, and $176/month in 2016.  That hardly compares with the rate of increase in courses like TR.  Has TR gotten 2.5 times better since I played it?  I highly doubt it, but like I said, we all have a threshold and more power to them if they can keep the tee sheet full.  BTW River Ridge (according to their website) is STILL $176/month and is a great layout.

 

and a golf course would have be on a "bucket list" for me to even think about paying over $150 for

 

this is a good point and changes for everyone. I agree with you here.  

 

now if you look at the golf "market" it has gone up year over year over year... good for golf. sucks for us who pay....    I was playing with a member of sawgrass and he said they went to $850 a round and while the club sees 25% less rounds they are making 25% more money... good for them? maybe 

 

[Argonne69]

13 minutes ago, monty09 said:

 

 

if you look at the "market" in pinehurst... everything went up... i remember the days of TR $100 Pine Needles, Southern Pines $140 and #2 sub $300

 

those days are long gone sadly 

 

I paid $145 at Southern Pines 3 months ago. Thought it was a very good price. 

 

[tngolf22]

7 minutes ago, monty09 said:

 

 

if you look at the "market" in pinehurst... everything went up... i remember the days of TR $100 Pine Needles, Southern Pines $140 and #2 sub $300

 

 

 

those days are long gone sadly 

My dad took me to Pinehurst in '99 for my college graduation present.  I think he paid close to $3,000 for the trip, which included 4 nights at the resort and 5 days of golf (36 holes per day including cart and range balls).  We played on various courses (#3,#4,#5,#6,#7) and we got to play #2 and #8 once each.  It was a fantastic trip.  I think the only surplus charge on the trip was for the caddie and tip on the #2 course.  My dad used to go on golf trips in the early 80s to the Pinehurst area and play the courses you mentioned for dirt cheap.

[tngolf22]

4 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

 

I paid $145 at Southern Pines 3 months ago. Thought it was a very good price. 

 

I never got to play Pine Needles or Southern Pines.  Southern Pines is a course I would probably pay $145 to pay, given what I've heard about it.

[Argonne69]

1 minute ago, tngolf22 said:

I never got to play Pine Needles or Southern Pines.  Southern Pines is a course I would probably pay $145 to pay, given what I've heard about it.

 

I played Pine Needles and Mid Pines in November 2021, and both were excellent. Don't recall the exact price, but I believe both were just over $100. 

 

[smashdn]

22 minutes ago, monty09 said:

 

 

if you look at the "market" in pinehurst... everything went up... i remember the days of TR $100 Pine Needles, Southern Pines $140 and #2 sub $300

 

 

 

those days are long gone sadly 

 

Oh yeah, I get it is an area/market driven thing.  I went and looked at some of the nicer public courses in Louisville and Lexington, Ky to compare prices.  You might say there is a fair amount of value to be had there comparatively.

[monty09]

11 minutes ago, tngolf22 said:

My dad took me to Pinehurst in '99 for my college graduation present.  I think he paid close to $3,000 for the trip, which included 4 nights at the resort and 5 days of golf (36 holes per day including cart and range balls).  We played on various courses (#3,#4,#5,#6,#7) and we got to play #2 and #8 once each.  It was a fantastic trip.  I think the only surplus charge on the trip was for the caddie and tip on the #2 course.  My dad used to go on golf trips in the early 80s to the Pinehurst area and play the courses you mentioned for dirt cheap.

 

 

you are speaking almost 40 years ago.. safe to say everything was dirt cheap back then

[monty09]

2 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

Oh yeah, I get it is an area/market driven thing.  I went and looked at some of the nicer public courses in Louisville and Lexington, Ky to compare prices.  You might say there is a fair amount of value to be had there comparatively.

but you have to go to Kentucky lol

[monty09]

15 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

 

I paid $145 at Southern Pines 3 months ago. Thought it was a very good price. 

 

 

 

it is. I think they price on and off peak...   golfing in those shoulder months are best vaule

[SilverBullets]

31 minutes ago, monty09 said:

 

and a golf course would have be on a "bucket list" for me to even think about paying over $150 for

 

this is a good point and changes for everyone. I agree with you here.  

 

 

 

You aren't able to play a decent round of golf in phoenix from after overseed (mid October) until June 1 if you aren't willing to shell out over $150 lol 

Edited June 5, 2023 by SilverBullets

[tngolf22]

4 minutes ago, monty09 said:

 

 

you are speaking almost 40 years ago.. safe to say everything was dirt cheap back then

I used to make fun of old people for lamenting about prices in the old days, and now I've become one of them.  🤣

[SilverBullets]

2 hours ago, smashdn said:

 

In what manner?  Architectural interest and "box ticking" I will grant you.  

 

But unless I caught TR on a really bad day, the conditions were on par with well-kept public courses around here.  The greens, this was August mind you and I have heard they have since converted to bermuda, were pretty beat and slow.  Not unheard of for August public course greens at this latitude but I have also played on better.

 

 

Overall I really liked the course.  It is just not a course I would feel good about paying $120 to play with the public options and prices around me as a barometer.

 

Gaylord Springs is a pretty forgettable layout in general.  Yeah, it's conditioned fairly well but the experience I had there was just 'meh another resort course'.  Hermitage I did enjoy a good bit.  It's a much more interesting layout.  However, the layout and course itself isn't particularly memorable and theres nothing special about it.  The most memorable part about the course are the sheep.  It's a good course that I would enjoy playing every day, but I'm not an experience if that makes sense.  It's not a course I'm going out of my way to play unless I'm already in the area.  

[monty09]

4 minutes ago, SilverBullets said:

 

You aren't able to play a decent round of golf in phoenix from after overseed (mid October) until June 1 if you aren't willing to shell out over $150 lol 

 

 

no joke......   peak season in arizona is not cheap at all

[monty09]

4 minutes ago, tngolf22 said:

I used to make fun of old people for lamenting about prices in the old days, and now I've become one of them.  🤣

 

 

golf is a weird thing.. I have played a top 10 course on every list in the world and its $80 then some random course opens in my town and its $165 and terrible...    

 

 

 

[ChrisSP]

18 hours ago, sabram said:

Which holes don't you like and what don't you like about them? What are the specific characteristics that make it a goat ranch? If it's helpful, this photo is a link to photos of every hole

 

 

 

 

With the exception of No. 14, the par 3s are terrible. Even 14 would have been better served by reducing the size of that green by about 60 percent and using a bunker that wrapped around the back of the green. I liked No. 1 okay but the other par 5s are all pretty much the same. Violent doglegs where you either bail out away from the sand or take it on. And then the approach shots are the exact same but in another direction. Take on the sand fronting those greens or bail out to the fairway. And the two drivable par 4s that you can take a crack at are no different than going for the par 5s in two ... take on the sand or bail out. It's just boring as hell from a shot value standpoint and visually all of the 50- and 60-yard deep greens just look absurd. The whole curse really just looks completely contrived. Beyond that, conditions have been average at best when I've played it and as others have mentioned the pace of play out there is always a complete joke.

 

Given the vast number of better golf courses that are available 30 minutes down the road, it's shocking to me that TR has the appeal that it has.

[smashdn]

1 hour ago, monty09 said:

but you have to go to Kentucky lol

 

If you're already here...

 

But I do my very best to stay south of Elizabethtown as a matter of course.

 

Pinehurst is not exactly on the beaten path, much less Sanford.

Edited June 5, 2023 by smashdn

[deadsolid...shank]

5 hours ago, tngolf22 said:

Wow.  So glad I was able to enjoy playing this course several times before the rates became outrageous.  Yes, in my opinion paying over $120 for Tobacco Road is "outrageous".  I remember paying less than $65 to play this course between 2000-2005.  I would never pay the current rate to play it.

It’s funny, and relative I guess. People talk about Wild Horse in central Nebraska as being a great bargain at $75.  That seems crazy to me now as I played it after it opened for $25. Makes it hard to pay the increased rate. 

[doglegs]

I paid $195 for TR last June (weekday).  Rates are up at all courses everywhere.  Even the local goat tracks have me dropping jaw.

[me05501]

On 6/5/2023 at 6:58 PM, deadsolid...shank said:

It’s funny, and relative I guess. People talk about Wild Horse in central Nebraska as being a great bargain at $75.  That seems crazy to me now as I played it after it opened for $25. Makes it hard to pay the increased rate. 

 

We locals used to play Sweeten's Cove for under $40. The hype around that place is insane. 

[The Milkman]

On 6/5/2023 at 3:02 PM, Argonne69 said:

 

I played Pine Needles and Mid Pines in November 2021, and both were excellent. Don't recall the exact price, but I believe both were just over $100. 

 

We're going next month and staying at Mid Pines. Two nights and a round at each of Pine Needles, Mid Pines and Southern Pines and it came out to just under $600 per person including the room. I was blown away at how cheap it was. 

[vandyfan]

On 6/2/2023 at 7:56 AM, smashdn said:

 

So no, using that as a barometer, TR is not a $120 golf course.  Fun course, interesting architecture, I loved it when I played there save for the condition of the greens, but not $120.

 

I have to jump in here late. Gaylord and Hermitage are not even in the same stratosphere of Tobacco Road. Are you serious? They have good conditioning but NO ONE is travelling to Nashville to play those courses, they are not designed by Mike Strantz and they maybe have 4 memorable holes between them whereas please seek out TR from all over the US, it is probably one of the boldest Strantz designs, and I have played it twice and I can see every single hole out there. 

 

Also, Gaylord will not let you take a push cart out on their course which is completely ridiculous. 

 

Edit: But $260 is a lot. Pursell Farms has made the same jump (another one of my favorite golf courses) and it is disappointing. I start to get uncomfortable at the $225+/round fee.

Edited June 9, 2023 by vandyfan

[ATXGolferGuy]

On 6/5/2023 at 12:06 PM, monty09 said:

 

 

what else do you hold to 2000-2005 prices? Milk? Gasoline? house? car?  

Actually on an inflation adjusted basis, milk is cheaper now than it was in 2005 (by 30 cents) Milk Prices Adjusted for Inflation | US Inflation Calculator  Same thing for Gas though the price fluctuates more. FOTW #1238, May 16, 2022: The Average Nationwide Monthly Gasoline Price Was Highest in July 2008 When Adjusted for Inflation | Department of Energy

 

$65 in 2005 would be roughly $103 today, so 2.5x increase in price is pretty steep.  But most entertainment prices have gone up faster than inflation maybe not 2.5x times but still faster.  If the demand is there can't blame them for charging it.

 

At $260 TR is just $5 more than Bandon Dunes in April (if you're not staying on property).  Golf is for sure an expensive game....always has been.  

[smashdn]

26 minutes ago, vandyfan said:

 Are you serious?

 

In the way that I used them and with respect to what is comparable between them they are analogous.  Which was conditioning and type of course.  

 

26 minutes ago, vandyfan said:

They have good conditioning but NO ONE is travelling to Nashville to play those courses, they are not designed by Mike Strantz and they maybe have 4 memorable holes between them whereas please seek out TR from all over the US, it is probably one of the boldest Strantz designs, and I have played it twice and I can see every single hole out there. 

 

Edit: But $260 is a lot. Pursell Farms has made the same jump (another one of my favorite golf courses) and it is disappointing. I start to get uncomfortable at the $225+/round fee.

 

And that is the overall point.  Does location and architect justify an ~$140 difference in green fees?  I don't know.  I would lean towards it must because people are paying it.  Is it logical?  Not sure I can get on board with that.

[me05501]

1 hour ago, smashdn said:

Does location and architect justify an ~$140 difference in green fees?  I don't know. 

 

Location alone can move the needle by that much. The Monterrey Peninsula provides several examples of that phenomenon. 

[klebs01]

19 hours ago, smashdn said:

 

In the way that I used them and with respect to what is comparable between them they are analogous.  Which was conditioning and type of course.  

 

 

And that is the overall point.  Does location and architect justify an ~$140 difference in green fees?  I don't know.  I would lean towards it must because people are paying it.  Is it logical?  Not sure I can get on board with that.

location and architecture are 100x more important than condition and type. What do you even mean by type?

[Carolina Golfer 2]

On 6/2/2023 at 8:56 AM, smashdn said:

 

I live north of Nashville, TN and $80 for a public course is too much for most all of them around here.  

 

This is one of the best public course offerings in the area > https://www.hermitagegolf.com/president-s-reserve and https://www.hermitagegolf.com/general-s-retreat .  It is max $85 peak time on weekend.  This is another top level public in the area > https://www.gaylordsprings.com/ < it had $90 weekend rates when I tried to book online just now.

 

So no, using that as a barometer, TR is not a $120 golf course.  Fun course, interesting architecture, I loved it when I played there save for the condition of the greens, but not $120.

I’ve played TR, Hermitage and Gaylord.  Tobacco Road is miles better than either of those.    And at $120 it would be a bargain anyway of the week.   

[smashdn]

On 6/10/2023 at 7:39 AM, klebs01 said:

location and architecture are 100x more important than condition and type. What do you even mean by type?

 

Daily public, high end resort, resort, state park course, etc.

[smashdn]

On 6/10/2023 at 1:03 PM, Carolina Golfer 2 said:

I’ve played TR, Hermitage and Gaylord.  Tobacco Road is miles better than either of those.    And at $120 it would be a bargain anyway of the week.   

 

Conditioning?  

 

I must have caught TR on a really bad day when i played it.