Tobacco Road Prices 2.5x from last year?

[AlohaPineapple]

played it for the first time recently, loved it, would go back again.  i know prices at pinehurst fluctuate quite a bit thru the year, not sure about TR.  tho I think all golf related things have gone up in price over the past few years.

[ND2005]

I only play it if I'm traveling with people who haven't seen it before/want to try it. It's visually stunning but not a track I want to play every trip. 

[jvincent]

As always, TR generates a lot of "hate it" vs "love it" opinions.

 

I played it a few years ago and I fall into the "love it" camp, except for thte 9th hole.  

[Argonne69]

Played it in November 2021. It was $131, which I thought was a decent price. Certainly in line with the prices in Pinehurst at the time. Loved the course, but I probably wouldn't pay double that for a second visit. 

 

[sabram]

7 hours ago, smashdn said:

This is one of the best public course offerings in the area > https://www.hermitagegolf.com/president-s-reserve and https://www.hermitagegolf.com/general-s-retreat .  I

I've played both courses at Hermitage several times. They're okay, but not in the same league as Tobacco Rd. Here are links to photos I've taken at Hermitage

 

Hermitage General's Retreat

 

Hermitage President's reserve

[italianstallion]

Played it last June for $195 (booked 6 months in advance so probably on the right side of dynamic pricing). For that rate I’d say it’s worth seeing. For $260 it’s getting a little crazy, but then again my perspective is of someone who has played it before.

 

I’m indifferent to favorable on the course as a whole. It’s certainly one of the most brutal golf courses I can remember walking. A lot of really fun holes and interesting holes, but a few more duds out there than I was expecting based on the hype. Having previously played and enjoyed a Stranz course before (True Blue) I was expecting/wanting every shot to be a hero shot, and holes 2, 4, 6, 7, 10 and 12 just didn’t have any. On the trip we also played No 2, PN, MP, and SP, and while I personally left feeling the trip wasn’t positively or negatively impacted by having TR in it, TR would be the first course I’d cut from the itinerary if I had to. 

[deadsolid...shank]

19 hours ago, golfday said:

10 years ago it was still the quirky course that some people loved and a lot of people hated. Locals wanted to play it once in a blue moon, and people traveling to Pinehurst from outside the region generally skipped it. Afternoon tee times were not expensive and easy to come by. Golf wasn't booming and destination golf definitely wasn't booming. Then the legend of Mike Strantz grew and Tobacco Road got a cult-like following that evangelized the course online. Then the golf and destination golf boom hit and now their tee sheet is booked solid all year at significantly increase rates. Rates everywhere in the area have gone up a lot, not nearly as fast as TRs. Only Southern Pines have probably increased at a similar rate - but they've done a whole lot of work on it. TR is essentially the same place it was a decade ago.

 

It's been really interesting to watch it's reputation and cost transition over the last decade. 

 

For $260, I'd still say you should play it once if you're in the area. It's fun and unique. But I wouldn't play it at the expense of not playing some combination of #2, #4, Pine Needles, Mid Pines, and maybe Southern Pines on a trip to Pinehurst. 

That’s very similar to what I remember (not that I trust my memory much anymore). When I first started reading about TR here years back, it seemed  more people than not really didn’t like it. “Tricked up” and “gimmicky” seemed to be used in a lot of descriptions. And a lot of talk about excessive blind shots. 
 

Now it the last few years, the general feeling seems to have turned 180* and it’s become a must play. I wonder what brought about the change in perception?

 

Not that really matters. If I were in the area, I might consider it for that price. My concern is that it really sounds like you need to play it more than once to appreciate and enjoy it. And I don’t think I want spend the majority of my expensive round guessing where to hit it. 

[ND2005]

1 hour ago, deadsolid...shank said:

My concern is that it really sounds like you need to play it more than once to appreciate and enjoy it. And I don’t think I want spend the majority of my expensive round guessing where to hit it. 

 

It really isn't that bad/unplayable. The carts all have GPS which lay out the hole pretty well. Also all of the more "blind" holes have a tin can looking marker out on the hole to give you a line. 

 

If you can reliably hit your yardages you'll be fine. 

 

The first time you definitely have a lot of "wow" moments though when you realize how the hole unfolds. 

[deadsolid...shank]

3 minutes ago, ND2005 said:

 

It really isn't that bad/unplayable. The carts all have GPS which lay out the hole pretty well. Also all of the more "blind" holes have a tin can looking marker out on the hole to give you a line. 

 

If you can reliably hit your yardages you'll be fine. 

 

The first time you definitely have a lot of "wow" moments though when you realize how the hole unfolds. 

That’s true, I’m sure the advancement of GPS has really made a difference for the first timer. Even the free 18 Birdies app does a pretty good job of showing the hole. 

[Looper34]

The property is similar to driving into a Moonshiner's camp with a golf course attached to it, which isn't a bad thing but for the minimalist vibe that TR projects, with their bare bones parking lot, spartan clubhouse, no restaurant, limited food choices, unremarkable practice range, small pro shop, etc, etc, $260/round is definitely pushing the envelope.

It's an okay track but I'll pass on that price. 

Edited June 3, 2023 by Looper34

[italianstallion]

1 hour ago, ND2005 said:

 

It really isn't that bad/unplayable. The carts all have GPS which lay out the hole pretty well. Also all of the more "blind" holes have a tin can looking marker out on the hole to give you a line. 

 

If you can reliably hit your yardages you'll be fine. 

 

The first time you definitely have a lot of "wow" moments though when you realize how the hole unfolds. 

 

Agreed with this. On a second play you'll have a better idea of where the backboards and funnels are on the course, but that's it. Some of the shots look intimidating "I don't know where to put this/there's no room for this" but really there's plenty of room out there. The most demanding tee shot is on number nine and the most demanding and intimidating par 3 (and maybe hole) on the course is 14.

 

The other three guys I went with had never played a Strantz before so they were psyched out nearly every hole. In retrospect they realized they had no reason to be and really wanted another go. Having played a Strantz before I knew what to expect and it was a fun round of golf and my best score of the trip. Trust your swing and don't get too psyched out by what you see...it's bark is worse than it's bite. 

[So_Cal]

We are possibly going to Pinehurst and we’re considering this course but would skip it at this price point. 

[ChrisSP]

They'd have to pay me $260 to play that goat ranch again. Clown golf.

[sabram]

3 hours ago, ChrisSP said:

They'd have to pay me $260 to play that goat ranch again. Clown golf.

Which holes don't you like and what don't you like about them? What are the specific characteristics that make it a goat ranch? If it's helpful, this photo is a link to photos of every hole

 

 

 

[deadsolid...shank]

1 hour ago, sabram said:

Which holes don't you like and what don't you like about them? What are the specific characteristics that make it a goat ranch? If it's helpful, this photo is a link to photos of every hole

 

 

 

Looking at all those pictures….I think I would pony if the fee to play. It looks spectacular. 

[dcmidnight]

As much as I loved TR and would absolutely play there again - I understand why some might not like it.

 

Here's how I put it on my last trip. If you took just one of those holes and put it on your home course, you would hate it. People would complain about how tricked up the hole/green were and how out of place it is. But somehow you take 18 of those kinds of holes and put them together and - IMO - they just work.

[North Butte]

I've never understood the intensity of the Tobacco Road love/hate thing. It's a pretty unique course in an unusual setting but being out of the ordinary is hardly something to criticize IMO.

 

The "tricked up" thing seems to center around two complaints. One is the greens, some of the contour are pretty wild. The other is the visual deception stuff on many of the tee shots.

 

The greens complaint would be that no matter how cagey or conservative you try to be in terms of aiming at the middle of greens, etc. you'll still have several putts each round with an enormous amount of break. IMO it's the sort of course (not totally unique but certainly uncommon) where you just accept that even a good putter is going to 3-putt a time or two during a round.

 

The tee shot complaint would be that there is often no obvious "hit it there if you can" or "avoid hitting it there at all cost" targets visible from the tee. The tee shots go outside of the normal laundry list of target types you see all the time

 

1) straight fairway with trouble both sides

2) wide open fairway with no trouble in play

3) dogleg right with the safe play out to the left

4) dogleg left that's narrow before the turn but opens up beyond the dogleg

5) etc, etc, etc

 

The reason these same two things can be "love" rather than "hate", depending on the golfer, is the course and even the greens are much less penalizing of slightly errant shots than they appear. Especially the tee shots often look like there's no obvious place you're supposed to hit it when in fact, you can get away with just aiming at some open area or another and even if you miss by 20-30 yards the ball is still findable and playable. With the greens, yeah a "good shot" might end up somewhere you will likely 3-putt but a lot of the green contours will still keep any halfway decent approach shot somewhere in the vicinity of the green. Nary a Pinehurst #2 style ball-rejecting tabletop in sight. 

 

So the lovers enjoy facing targets and shot choices they might not have seen before, without actually having huge penalties for slight misses. The haters would rather be presented with one clearly visible target after another where they can try to "hit it here" then "hit it there" and repeat for 18 holes like a shooting gallery.

 

I've heard quotes from Tour players over the years to the effect about some course like, "It will really punish bad shots but it's all RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF YOU so you know what you have to do". That's the kind of thing Mike Strantz never wanted anyone to say about his courses.

Edited June 5, 2023 by North Butte

[Drwoods2017]

$260 dollars isn't the deterrent for me. It's the fact that every round I play out there is over 5 hours long.  Used to play it 3-4 times a year because it really is a great course. Haven't played it at all this year and probably won't because pace of play is so bad.  Even with golf cart GPS it's not any better.

[smashdn]

On 6/2/2023 at 3:00 PM, sabram said:

I've played both courses at Hermitage several times. They're okay, but not in the same league as Tobacco Rd. Here are links to photos I've taken at Hermitage

 

Hermitage General's Retreat

 

Hermitage President's reserve

 

Those are nice pictures of ponds.  TR's pond on 14 has the "beach bunker."  Maybe that is what makes it worth it?

[SilverBullets]

On 6/2/2023 at 5:56 AM, smashdn said:

 

I live north of Nashville, TN and $80 for a public course is too much for most all of them around here.  

 

This is one of the best public course offerings in the area > https://www.hermitagegolf.com/president-s-reserve and https://www.hermitagegolf.com/general-s-retreat .  It is max $85 peak time on weekend.  This is another top level public in the area > https://www.gaylordsprings.com/ < it had $90 weekend rates when I tried to book online just now.

 

So no, using that as a barometer, TR is not a $120 golf course.  Fun course, interesting architecture, I loved it when I played there save for the condition of the greens, but not $120.

Yeah but Hermitage and Gaylord Springs aren't in the same stratosphere as TR.  

 

On that note, Nashville has a pretty disappointing public golf scene. 

[golfday]

On 6/3/2023 at 7:50 AM, deadsolid...shank said:

That’s very similar to what I remember (not that I trust my memory much anymore). When I first started reading about TR here years back, it seemed  more people than not really didn’t like it. “Tricked up” and “gimmicky” seemed to be used in a lot of descriptions. And a lot of talk about excessive blind shots. 
 

Now it the last few years, the general feeling seems to have turned 180* and it’s become a must play. I wonder what brought about the change in perception?

 

Not that really matters. If I were in the area, I might consider it for that price. My concern is that it really sounds like you need to play it more than once to appreciate and enjoy it. And I don’t think I want spend the majority of my expensive round guessing where to hit it. 

The more you play it the easier it gets for sure. A lot of holes are very visually intimidating, but then you get to your tee shot and it turns out there was actually a ton of room. The visuals are very deceptive... but there a few places that really don't have much room. 

[monty09]

On 6/1/2023 at 11:15 AM, smashdn said:

Feel fortunate to have paid around $45 on a weekday morning around 10 years ago.  It is a fun course and all but not a $120 course let alone $260.

 

 

disagree

[smashdn]

56 minutes ago, SilverBullets said:

Yeah but Hermitage and Gaylord Springs aren't in the same stratosphere as TR.  

 

In what manner?  Architectural interest and "box ticking" I will grant you.  

 

But unless I caught TR on a really bad day, the conditions were on par with well-kept public courses around here.  The greens, this was August mind you and I have heard they have since converted to bermuda, were pretty beat and slow.  Not unheard of for August public course greens at this latitude but I have also played on better.

 

 

Overall I really liked the course.  It is just not a course I would feel good about paying $120 to play with the public options and prices around me as a barometer.

[monty09]

On 6/2/2023 at 9:38 AM, jholz said:

For every hype-monster course charging in excess of $200 per round...

 

There's a comparable course within 20 miles charging half of that rate.

 

IMHO, the only thing you loose by playing the cheaper alternative is that you can't tell your friends/randoms that you played "insert name of hype-monster course."

 

 

highly doubt "comparable"

[tngolf22]

Wow.  So glad I was able to enjoy playing this course several times before the rates became outrageous.  Yes, in my opinion paying over $120 for Tobacco Road is "outrageous".  I remember paying less than $65 to play this course between 2000-2005.  I would never pay the current rate to play it.

[jerebear21]

Yall comparing prices from 15 years ago…….O.o

 

TR front 9 is awesome.  Back 9 can get frustrating.  

[monty09]

7 minutes ago, tngolf22 said:

Wow.  So glad I was able to enjoy playing this course several times before the rates became outrageous.  Yes, in my opinion paying over $120 for Tobacco Road is "outrageous".  I remember paying less than $65 to play this course between 2000-2005.  I would never pay the current rate to play it.

 

 

what else do you hold to 2000-2005 prices? Milk? Gasoline? house? car?  

[me05501]

I'd be more likely to follow greens fees higher if the courses jacking their rates would commit to spacing out foursomes more than the customary 7-8 minutes.

 

Paying $200-300 for a single round should mean I'm not going to spend five hours watching the group ahead play while also feeling constant stares from the group behind. To me that becomes the larger issue with the courses I've played that most resemble Tobacco Road.

 

The most similar courses I've played are Old Toccoa Farm and The McLemore. Those courses have lots of blind and/or visually intimidating shots. There are holes you don't know how to attack until you're on the green looking back at the tee box and the greens themselves can be a huge challenge.

 

All of that is fine. It's not country club golf after all. But I've found that I don't enjoy those challenges nearly as much when there's no flow. 

[monty09]

27 minutes ago, me05501 said:

I'd be more likely to follow greens fees higher if the courses jacking their rates would commit to spacing out foursomes more than the customary 7-8 minutes.

 

Paying $200-300 for a single round should mean I'm not going to spend five hours watching the group ahead play while also feeling constant stares from the group behind. To me that becomes the larger issue with the courses I've played that most resemble Tobacco Road.

 

The most similar courses I've played are Old Toccoa Farm and The McLemore. Those courses have lots of blind and/or visually intimidating shots. There are holes you don't know how to attack until you're on the green looking back at the tee box and the greens themselves can be a huge challenge.

 

All of that is fine. It's not country club golf after all. But I've found that I don't enjoy those challenges nearly as much when there's no flow. 

 

 

you can pay 2x that at pebble and have same issue.. 3x that at sawgrass and same issue....          

 

space those tee times OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[smashdn]

1 hour ago, monty09 said:

what else do you hold to 2000-2005 prices? Milk? Gasoline? house? car?  

 

Which is why I compared it to what other upper end public courses are currently charging.

 

 

And got subsequently crucified.