PGA TOUR, DP World Tour and PIF announce newly formed commercial entity (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[00steven]

3 hours ago, bcjim said:

They're made irrelevant because they play meaningless exhibition golf against each other, some has-beens, and some nobodies.   Nobody knows or remembers anything about last week's Jedda open except that Anthony Kim was playing and was pretty rusty.

You can keep telling yourself that, but the casual fan knows and cares about many of those golfers.

[Titleist99]

2 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Grandstanding. The players they recruit won't need OWGR points because they'll be recent exempt major tournament winners or potential good players from college.

 

Good publicity stunt Greg.😆

[BlackDiamondPar5]

28 minutes ago, 00steven said:

You can keep telling yourself that, but the casual fan knows and cares about many of those golfers.

That's just not true. If the casual fan cared they'd be gobbling up all the FREE, easy to get LIV access. But fact is they don't care. As evidence just look at the Web traffic to livgolf and livgolfplus. It's flat! Not growing and is just 6% of that of the PGAT web traffic. 

 

The highest LIV web traffic comes from the US by nearly a factor of 5 over the next highest nation AUS. Hardly anyone cares, has cared or will care. 

[Titleist99]

8 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

That's just not true. If the casual fan cared they'd be gobbling up all the FREE, easy to get LIV access. But fact is they don't care. As evidence just look at the Web traffic to livgolf and livgolfplus. It's flat! Not growing and is just 6% of that of the PGAT web traffic. 

 

The highest LIV web traffic comes from the US by nearly a factor of 5 over the next highest nation AUS. Hardly anyone cares, has cared or will care. 

100%. The format is virtually unwatchable.

[jdl]

1 hour ago, 00steven said:

You can keep telling yourself that, but the casual fan knows and cares about many of those golfers.

because of what they did on the PGA/DP Tour & majors.

[TroyB123]

10 minutes ago, jdl said:

because of what they did on the PGA/DP Tour & majors.

Yeah, and their stars fade quickly too.

 

I had to look at the liv site to remember who all left.   Guys like Varner, Reed, Bubba, Anser, Casey, Smith... and on have pretty much disappeared from my golfing consciousness.   Gooch is the only one who arguably increased his star power from liv.   

 

Bryson, Koepka, and Niemann are about the only ones staying somewhat relevant in media and social media.   Phil too I guess, but not for anything he's doing on the golf course.   Leaving Rahm out, since he's new.

 

 

[bcjim]

5 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

I think this means Jay said "go pound sand".

 

Combined with the other news today, that they are throwing in the towel on OWGR, I conclude that they do not want their players teeing it up elsewhere except majors. Niemann is out playing all over and getting accolades for that while crickets chirp about his liv wins.

 

Having these guys play other tournaments is bad business for liv. If we're getting our fill of Niemann elsewhere, there is (if you can believe it), even less incentive to watch liv events. 

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, bcjim said:

I think this means Jay said "go pound sand".

 

Combined with the other news today, that they are throwing in the towel on OWGR, I conclude that they do not want their players teeing it up elsewhere except majors. Niemann is out playing all over and getting accolades for that while crickets chirp about his liv wins.

 

Having these guys play other tournaments is bad business for liv. If we're getting our fill of Niemann elsewhere, there is (if you can believe it), even less incentive to watch liv events. 

I agree, plus the fact that these guys are alienating people with their constant whining regarding OWGR points and entitlement behavior.

 

Totally getting on my nerves.😆

[PedronNiall]

Can't see any way the merger proceeds given all that's happened recently. The Tour now has financial backing from a group that is capable of helping them increase revenue in a meaningful way so they can support bigger purses. LIV has now given up on OWGR points, which means there's about zero chance guys on the Tour would be willing to play in any of their hosted events as they'd be meaningless for helping them get into important tournaments that follow. Lastly, they've stonewalled on giving up the financial docs they've been asked for and threatened prison time for the groups who have said info, so it's just a perfect storm of creating easy "no"s from the bodies that will have to give the final okay. 

 

Anyone looking to join LIV now knows the way into the highest events only comes via playing outside the league as Niemann & only Niemann has managed. Young guns have got to know that's the worst way to have a shot, so other than guaranteed money LIV offers nothing. Seasoned guys already there now know they were lied to about OWGR happening as LIV/Norman refuse to do what needs to occur for that. 

 

The guys who already had the Majors and a way to continue playing them have certainly come out ahead monetarily but that's about all. They now see that if they slip up a bit they no longer have a means of maintaining status with wins or top finishes in their normal tournaments. Got to suck, but they're foolish for going in believing Norman's talk and knowing they'd have no way to go back to the Tour.

 

Saddest lesson of all of this has been finding out how greedy so many of the guys already sitting on millions turned out to be. The LIV guys have destroyed their legacies and the guys who stayed but whined about the dollars have turned many off of all professional golf. Both groups have created division that's going to take some time to recover from. 

 

Will be more than happy if the points decision is truly the nail in the coffin for LIV being tied to the PGA so everyone can go their separate ways. Won't be sad if Golf Central can back to not even mentioning LIV; as zero of the traditional sports outlets cover their results, I literally won't have to hear a word about the exhibition tour ever again in anything other than passing. 

[00steven]

3 hours ago, jdl said:

because of what they did on the PGA/DP Tour & majors.

Didn’t say it wasn’t.

[00steven]

4 hours ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

That's just not true. If the casual fan cared they'd be gobbling up all the FREE, easy to get LIV access. But fact is they don't care. As evidence just look at the Web traffic to livgolf and livgolfplus. It's flat! Not growing and is just 6% of that of the PGAT web traffic. 

 

The highest LIV web traffic comes from the US by nearly a factor of 5 over the next highest nation AUS. Hardly anyone cares, has cared or will care. 

Streaming numbers are up this year for LIV and PGA TV ratings at many events are down. Not saying it’s a good thing, saying anyone who is objective can see the tour has been weakened over the past two years.  I’d love to see them merge.

[woahnelly]

3 hours ago, PedronNiall said:

Can't see any way the merger proceeds given all that's happened recently. The Tour now has financial backing from a group that is capable of helping them increase revenue in a meaningful way so they can support bigger purses. LIV has now given up on OWGR points, which means there's about zero chance guys on the Tour would be willing to play in any of their hosted events as they'd be meaningless for helping them get into important tournaments that follow. Lastly, they've stonewalled on giving up the financial docs they've been asked for and threatened prison time for the groups who have said info, so it's just a perfect storm of creating easy "no"s from the bodies that will have to give the final okay. 

 

Anyone looking to join LIV now knows the way into the highest events only comes via playing outside the league as Niemann & only Niemann has managed. Young guns have got to know that's the worst way to have a shot, so other than guaranteed money LIV offers nothing. Seasoned guys already there now know they were lied to about OWGR happening as LIV/Norman refuse to do what needs to occur for that. 

 

The guys who already had the Majors and a way to continue playing them have certainly come out ahead monetarily but that's about all. They now see that if they slip up a bit they no longer have a means of maintaining status with wins or top finishes in their normal tournaments. Got to suck, but they're foolish for going in believing Norman's talk and knowing they'd have no way to go back to the Tour.

 

Saddest lesson of all of this has been finding out how greedy so many of the guys already sitting on millions turned out to be. The LIV guys have destroyed their legacies and the guys who stayed but whined about the dollars have turned many off of all professional golf. Both groups have created division that's going to take some time to recover from. 

 

Will be more than happy if the points decision is truly the nail in the coffin for LIV being tied to the PGA so everyone can go their separate ways. Won't be sad if Golf Central can back to not even mentioning LIV; as zero of the traditional sports outlets cover their results, I literally won't have to hear a word about the exhibition tour ever again in anything other than passing. 

 

Puig also qualified for The Open.  There are ways to get into the majors without OWGR points, which render them kind meaningless to the LIV fat cats anyhow. OWGR is kind of meaningless now, except for the Olympics rankings. Cam Smith will likely lose out, unless he does well in the majors. 

[PedronNiall]

2 hours ago, woahnelly said:

 

Puig also qualified for The Open.  There are ways to get into the majors without OWGR points, which render them kind meaningless to the LIV fat cats anyhow. OWGR is kind of meaningless now, except for the Olympics rankings. Cam Smith will likely lose out, unless he does well in the majors. 

The point is that Tour players can just play their events and by way of winning or even just doing well consistently are able to make it into the biggest events. LIV players cannot, which means anyone who wasn't already in before joining now has to make extra stops to get in no matter how well they play in LIV events.

 

Half of the whining from LIV guys was that that Tour required too many events, yet they'll be filling free weeks in trying to make it to the Majors now. Not to mention that some who were in the middle of the pack will now be relegated to multi-round/multi-day qualifying if they go the fully open route.

 

OWGR isn't meaningless. Had it been Norman/LIV wouldn't have promised the points to those who jumped ship, and those jumping ship wouldn't have touted it as part of what made them feel secure in going over. You wouldn't have LIV players chirping about the lack of points for their events since this all began if they didn't matter.

[woahnelly]

12 hours ago, PedronNiall said:

The point is that Tour players can just play their events and by way of winning or even just doing well consistently are able to make it into the biggest events. LIV players cannot, which means anyone who wasn't already in before joining now has to make extra stops to get in no matter how well they play in LIV events.

 

Half of the whining from LIV guys was that that Tour required too many events, yet they'll be filling free weeks in trying to make it to the Majors now. Not to mention that some who were in the middle of the pack will now be relegated to multi-round/multi-day qualifying if they go the fully open route.

 

OWGR isn't meaningless. Had it been Norman/LIV wouldn't have promised the points to those who jumped ship, and those jumping ship wouldn't have touted it as part of what made them feel secure in going over. You wouldn't have LIV players chirping about the lack of points for their events since this all began if they didn't matter.

 

I don't think the guys who complained about the # of starts are the same ones still gung ho about the majors anyhow. The LIV fat cats are happy with the $ and playing min one major a year, if that. The younger guys you see are the ones humping the Asian tour to get British Open spots and OWGR points. If you play well enough, the majors will notice. So yes LIV itself is not a gateway for majors but there are still other pathways that don't need the OWGR requirements I'm puzzled that the  Asian Tour via LIV does not try to just extend the amount of slots allotted via this pathway instead of trying to compromise OWGR set criteria.  I feel no sympathy the LIV guys were "lied too", Greg trying to strongarm with used car salesman charm on that one. 

 

 

[Cactus Jack]

On 3/5/2024 at 10:54 AM, Titleist99 said:

Grandstanding. The players they recruit won't need OWGR points because they'll be recent exempt major tournament winners or potential good players from college.

 

Good publicity stunt Greg.😆

 

This is precisely why their fields improve year over year, and the PGAT product has become reliant on journeymen stepping up and first-time winners driving the stories. Personally, I'd prefer to watch half a field of known major winners battle it out compared to the Grayson Murray & Nick Dunlaps of the world. Rory seems to be on the fence, Clark was in discussion and left the door open, Hideki's been recruited for years. LIV fields have the potential to be staggeringly strong. 

[Short Pete]

PIF has already started to look after new ventures, Formula One and the ATP tennis tour. They will let the LIV circus run maybe for one more year, then they lose interest. There is nothing to be won for them. Fans ignore the league, no one invests in the teams, no OWGR points. Rahm doesn’t pull viewers, and if the PGA Tour seals the new deal no one will hop on the LIV train. It’s over.

[Titleist99]

4 hours ago, Cactus Jack said:

 

This is precisely why their fields improve year over year, and the PGAT product has become reliant on journeymen stepping up and first-time winners driving the stories. Personally, I'd prefer to watch half a field of known major winners battle it out compared to the Grayson Murray & Nick Dunlaps of the world. Rory seems to be on the fence, Clark was in discussion and left the door open, Hideki's been recruited for years. LIV fields have the potential to be staggeringly strong. 

Good thing I don't watch golf for strength of field.......

 

I'd rather watch players playing for job security and status than see if Jon Rahn will be able to buy another house.🙂🙂

 

Besides, the format is the problem with the failed Saudi tour, not the field strength.

[bscinstnct]

 

[scotee]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/cycling/tiger-woods-named-vice-chairman-of-pga-tour-enterprises-players-tilt-the-board/ar-BB1jv4nT?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=fd049629358c4e90a4b83b5c7770750c&ei=21

 

 

[Cactus Jack]

[WorkItBothWays]

https://www.nbcsports.com/golf/news/a-leaner-meaner-pga-tour-rorys-in-favor-but-not-everyone-wants-to-go-on-that-diet

 

“I saw Wyndham’s comment,” van Rooyen began. “Two years ago, Wyndham was in the 100-125 spot. He would’ve lost his card, and now he’s a major winner, and all of a sudden…”

Van Rooyen continued: “And Rory, I know he said he wants the Tour to be more cutthroat. Well, this is the most cutthroat sport there is; you miss the cut, you’re gone, bro. You’re not making money. … The NBA has over 300 guys playing. We have 144 guys playing [next week at The Players]; that’s not a lot, and more than half of them aren’t making money.”

Don’t get van Rooyen wrong; he loves playing in these lucrative events (Scheffler took home a crisp $4 million for winning Sunday). But he can’t help but also feel that pro golf is in a “strange spot” as dollar bills spill out of players’ pockets and hitting the green takes on new meaning.

“I think this idea that we’re worth what Premier League soccer players are worth is completely mind-blowing,” van Rooyen said. “I’m sorry, Jon Rahm, you’re a fantastic player, but you’re not worth the zeroes they gave you, you’re not worth more than what Cristiano Ronaldo is making. I’m sorry, we don’t have the following. We’re not the NBA, we’re not the NFL. I get there are a handful of really famous and really good golfers; how many of them have won tournaments so far this year?”

[JungleJimbo]

 

https://www.mondayq.com/posts/an-open-letter-to-rory 

 

[stinger_gc]

 Not much of a secret 😂

[pingbling23]

Monaghan admitted that pif was involved with the deal with ssg.  They just have to iron out the details but it’s a done deal.

[notsohard]

1 hour ago, pingbling23 said:

Monaghan admitted that pif was involved with the deal with ssg.  They just have to iron out the details but it’s a done deal.

A couple of kinks...2 players on the board.

[notsohard]

On 3/12/2024 at 6:05 AM, WorkItBothWays said:

https://www.nbcsports.com/golf/news/a-leaner-meaner-pga-tour-rorys-in-favor-but-not-everyone-wants-to-go-on-that-diet

 

“I saw Wyndham’s comment,” van Rooyen began. “Two years ago, Wyndham was in the 100-125 spot. He would’ve lost his card, and now he’s a major winner, and all of a sudden…”

Van Rooyen continued: “And Rory, I know he said he wants the Tour to be more cutthroat. Well, this is the most cutthroat sport there is; you miss the cut, you’re gone, bro. You’re not making money. … The NBA has over 300 guys playing. We have 144 guys playing [next week at The Players]; that’s not a lot, and more than half of them aren’t making money.”

Don’t get van Rooyen wrong; he loves playing in these lucrative events (Scheffler took home a crisp $4 million for winning Sunday). But he can’t help but also feel that pro golf is in a “strange spot” as dollar bills spill out of players’ pockets and hitting the green takes on new meaning.

“I think this idea that we’re worth what Premier League soccer players are worth is completely mind-blowing,” van Rooyen said. “I’m sorry, Jon Rahm, you’re a fantastic player, but you’re not worth the zeroes they gave you, you’re not worth more than what Cristiano Ronaldo is making. I’m sorry, we don’t have the following. We’re not the NBA, we’re not the NFL. I get there are a handful of really famous and really good golfers; how many of them have won tournaments so far this year?”

Yeah...but.... you and i have no say in how PIF wants to spend their money. It's their party.

[WorkItBothWays]

15 hours ago, notsohard said:

Yeah...but.... you and i have no say in how PIF wants to spend their money. It's their party.

True but thats not the point van Rooyen was making.