Worried that using line on ball when putting takes too much time

[Newby]

1 hour ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Also I believe a 12 cm protractor is way easier to line up than a 2 cm curved line on a ball.

 

Indeed. My wife (also a player) and I tried with a lined ball. The outcome was so bad we didn't bother to record anything.

Separately, we also played a few putts at a 2m target using a lined ball or a decorative spot in the carpet weave at about 1m. The latter was significantly more successful. A difficulty was that the line on the ball was about 1.5 mm wide. Pretty standard for normal markings I guess. 

[bobfoster]

I've used the line - for many years. Have a very ritualistic pre-shot for putts.

 

Pre-routine - Prior to addressing the ball, look at the wide contours of the green from a few feet behind the ball (gives more perspective). Then narrow the focus. Need both wide and narrow - e.g., the line between the ball and hole may have no breaks, but if the whole green tilts back to front downwards, it still isn't going to be a straight putt if you're coming from the side. So wide looks at the green as a whole and the particular region the hole is sitting in, and narrow looks at the line between ball and hole. With those two together, I visualize the putt.  Depending on the putt, this usually takes all of ten seconds or less - it might take up to 20 - 25 seconds if the putt is long and complicated, but never more than that. Varies with the nature of the putt and how difficult it is to read.

 

Coming up to the ball triggers The Routine. It doesn't vary at all. I align the line on the ball towards the point I'm aiming at (not the hole - the line I want the ball started on in my visualization). This takes all of two - three seconds. Pick up marker. One practice swing (the same length as the stroke will be - short backswing/through swing for short putts, longer for longer putts). Step up to the ball. Line up the line on the ball with the line on my putter. One look at the hole, refocus on the ball, breathe out, and immediately swing. The Routine takes 20 - 22 seconds (due to an argument with a buddy, actually timed it during 18 holes a little while ago - it is extremely consistent). 

 

Couple notes. First, The Routine has a specific purpose: To stop thinking. At least in my experience, over-thinking any part of a putt is lethal. You read the green, but then kind of "feel" the putt you're going to make. The brain figures out the putt, but the body putts. 

 

Second. I use the line on the ball, but don't need to spend ages fiddling with it to get it "perfect". There isn't perfect in regards to aiming the ball at the hole. We aren't machines putting on a perfectly flat surface. The read will always be "mostly", the stroke will always be "mostly". Yes, a variance of X will produce a miss of Y at a distance of Z. My use of the line is simply to get my stroke lined up. Aligning the line on the ball with the line on my putter. My stroke is slight-arc-to-straight. Want the line on my putter to be "following" the line on the ball on the follow through.  My primary goal with hitting a putt is getting the first foot off the putter right.  

 

Third, to the OP's point. The majority of my putts (pre-routine + Routine) take less than 30 seconds. Long double breakers might total 40 - 45. If I ever approached 60 if would mean I was way  overthinking some part of the putt. 

 

Finally, don't care if anyone proves the line doesn't matter or have any effect. In and of itself it may or may not. All I can say is for me, as part of a total picture with multiple components I find it very helpful. Think what I do is pretty efficient - my putting never slows a foursome down (I've played with guys that are incredibly irritating with respect to that). And effective. Putting may be one of the best parts of my game. Practice it way more than anything else (would be dumb not to - roughly half the strokes on a scorecard are with 13 clubs, and fully the other half are with that single club ... makes a lot of sense to obsess on practicing with that club). 

 

Usual disclaimer here - would never tell anyone else that they should or shouldn't use the line. Putting may be the most unique and individual parts of the game. All I'd suggest to the OP is that if he is spending a lot of time making micro-adjustments to the line on the ball, it may be hurting rather than helping his putting. 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2023 by bobfoster

[Mr. Bean]

Bod drafted a novel 😀

 

Better than an average morning paper article.

[DaveLeeNC]

Here is a better place for discussion of the effectiveness of the using a line on a golf ball for alignment (IMHO). Fixed the url.

 

dave

Edited July 20, 2023 by DaveLeeNC

[animalgolfs]

41 minutes ago, bobfoster said:

I've used the line - for many years. Have a very ritualistic pre-shot for putts.

 

Pre-routine - Prior to addressing the ball, look at the wide contours of the green from a few feet behind the ball (gives more perspective). Then narrow the focus. Need both wide and narrow - e.g., the line between the ball and hole may have no breaks, but if the whole green tilts back to front downwards, it still isn't going to be a straight putt if you're coming from the side. So wide looks at the green as a whole and the particular region the hole is sitting in, and narrow looks at the line between ball and hole. With those two together, I visualize the putt.  Depending on the putt, this usually takes all of ten seconds or less - it might take up to 20 - 25 seconds if the putt is long and complicated, but never more than that. Varies with the nature of the putt and how difficult it is to read.

 

Coming up to the ball triggers The Routine. It doesn't vary at all. I align the line on the ball towards the point I'm aiming at (not the hole - the line I want the ball started on in my visualization). This takes all of two - three seconds. Pick up marker. One practice swing (the same length as the stroke will be - short backswing/through swing for short putts, longer for longer putts). Step up to the ball. Line up the line on the ball with the line on my putter. One look at the hole, refocus on the ball, breathe out, and immediately swing. The Routine takes 20 - 22 seconds (due to an argument with a buddy, actually timed it during 18 holes a little while ago - it is extremely consistent). 

 

Couple notes. First, The Routine has a specific purpose: To stop thinking. At least in my experience, over-thinking any part of a putt is lethal. You read the green, but then kind of "feel" the putt you're going to make. The brain figures out the putt, but the body putts. 

 

Second. I use the line on the ball, but don't need to spend ages fiddling with it to get it "perfect". There isn't perfect in regards to aiming the ball at the hole. We aren't machines putting on a perfectly flat surface. The read will always be "mostly", the stroke will always be "mostly". Yes, a variance of X will produce a miss of Y at a distance of Z. My use of the line is simply to get my stroke lined up. Aligning the line on the ball with the line on my putter. My stroke is slight-arc-to-straight. Want the line on my putter to be "following" the line on the ball on the follow through.  My primary goal with hitting a putt is getting the first foot off the putter right.  

 

Third, to the OP's point. The majority of my putts (pre-routine + Routine) take less than 30 seconds. Long double breakers might total 40 - 45. If I ever approached 60 if would mean I was way  overthinking some part of the putt. 

 

Finally, don't care if anyone proves the line doesn't matter or have any effect. In and of itself it may or may not. All I can say is for me, as part of a total picture with multiple components I find it very helpful. Think what I do is pretty efficient - my putting never slows a foursome down (I've played with guys that are incredibly irritating with respect to that). And effective. Putting may be one of the best parts of my game. Practice it way more than anything else (would be dumb not to - roughly half the strokes on a scorecard are with 13 clubs, and fully the other half are with that single club ... makes a lot of sense to obsess on practicing with that club). 

 

Usual disclaimer here - would never tell anyone else that they should or shouldn't use the line. Putting may be the most unique and individual parts of the game. All I'd suggest to the OP is that if he is spending a lot of time making micro-adjustments to the line on the ball, it may be hurting rather than helping his putting. 

 

 

Reading this post takes about the same time to putt as my partner who's uses the line........slow and even slower

 

I can see using it in close,  heck I tried it. Ultimately- it's time consuming END of STORY 

[klebs01]

6 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

As I have described earlier there is a faster and better way and that is to take an aiming point some distance from the ball towards the hole. Trying to line up a really short curved line is very inaccurate. And in the end it is the movement of the putter that determines which direction the ball will start to move.

 

Despite of Dave's excellent description of sum of variables I still say that it is virtually impossible to line up a ball with sufficient accuracy.  Btw, if that method were superior why there is only a fraction of top players using it?

do you have data that shows lining up to that spot actually gets the puts started on line more accurately than the line? Your claims that 1 degree off will make it miss is completely irrelevant. The only relevant comparison is to other techniques and which has a closer proximity average and make percent for the player vs other techniques. 

 

my experience is different than yours in that the vast majority of good players use the line. It also doesn’t creat any slow play problems you describe. 

[Rosco1216]

[North Butte]

2 hours ago, animalgolfs said:

I can see using it in close,  heck I tried it. Ultimately- it's time consuming END of STORY 

Whether it helps or not, it does takes time. It's a self-indulgent practice, like a lot of other time-wasting stuff in modern golf.

 

Even done with minimal re-aiming and fiddling about, if all four players do it on every putt that's quite a bit of a time over 18 holes. And very, very few people it without at least occasionally re-aiming and fiddling about for an extra 30-45 seconds on some putts. 

[rzitup]

2 minutes ago, North Butte said:

Whether it helps or not, it does takes time. It's a self-indulgent practice, like a lot of other time-wasting stuff in modern golf.

 

Even done with minimal re-aiming and fiddling about, if all four players do it on every putt that's quite a bit of a time over 18 holes. And very, very few people it without at least occasionally re-aiming and fiddling about for an extra 30-45 seconds on some putts. 

 

This whole thread makes me sad for the future pace of play in golf.  It also likely explains why, for as much golf as I play, I am not a more precise putter!

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, klebs01 said:

do you have data that shows lining up to that spot actually gets the puts started on line more accurately than the line? Your claims that 1 degree off will make it miss is completely irrelevant. The only relevant comparison is to other techniques and which has a closer proximity average and make percent for the player vs other techniques. 

 

my experience is different than yours in that the vast majority of good players use the line. It also doesn’t creat any slow play problems you describe. 

 

You are most welcome to make a reliable study on the issue and I wish you good luck in doing it. My point all along has been that it is virtually impossible to line up the ball with a line on it in such a way that it would point accurately towards the point intended. Thus I feel that my claim is most relevant as lining up the ball is the key of the entire process. I am surprised you have missed that.

 

My experience a s referee is that players using the line are on the average slower than those who do not use it. Might be a coincidence but that is my view after 15 years of refereeing.

[larrybud]

21 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Having refereed quite a few competitions I have a very different experience on that. But I do agree with you that it SHOULD not take more than a couple of seconds but unfortunately it most often takes much more than that.

 

It still puzzles me how this practice can help a person to sink more putts. I can figure out the mental part but the mechanical part beats me. As I wrote before an error of one degree in a 5-yard putt means a missed putt every time and nobody, and I mean NOBODY can line a ball with sufficient accuracy but just by chance every 50th or so times.

Weird how I can align my ball where I want, roll it end over end, and make the putt, and on short ones, a hell of a lot more often than 1 in 50.

 

Perhaps you're just lacking some skill in this aspect of the game.

[larrybud]

On 7/18/2023 at 2:47 PM, Mr. Bean said:

 

I simply wonder why one should use several different methods in aligning a shot. To me that sounds really stupid. Especially when they take more time than needed.

 

The same reason you use a tee on a par 3, but not when in the fairway.

 

[Mr. Bean]

1 minute ago, larrybud said:

Weird how I can align my ball where I want, roll it end over end, and make the putt, and on short ones, a hell of a lot more often than 1 in 50.

 

Perhaps you're just lacking some skill in this aspect of the game.

 

If you would read my posts carefully you would notice that I have been referring to a 5-yard putt and not a short one. 

 

I admit, I have no skill in lining up a ball with a line on it as IMO it is simply silly and I never do it.

[Mr. Bean]

1 minute ago, larrybud said:

 

The same reason you use a tee on a par 3, but not when in the fairway.

 

 

How does that relate to lining up a shot?

 

Oh, I know, you were just trolling. As usual.

[larrybud]

On 7/18/2023 at 2:43 PM, Mr. Bean said:

 

I guess you did not read my 1st post on this thread so I quote it here:

 

"You should also bear in mind that an error of one single degree in a 5 yard putt is 3,14 inches at the hole which means you will always miss your putt if you cannot line your ball up exactly accurately. And trust me, you cannot, you will always make an error of one or more degrees."

 

 

Your eyesight must be terrible if you can't aim a line accurately at 15 feet. 

 

 

[larrybud]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

How does that relate to lining up a shot?

 

Oh, I know, you were just trolling. As usual.

 

Your argument is that using different methods of alignment doesn't make any sense, yet you use different method of hitting iron shots based on whether you're on a tee box or in the fairway. Crazy!

[larrybud]

20 hours ago, ThinkingPlus said:

I think we need to look into our alignment likelihood estimate a bit more closely. A 1 degree error at 15 feet is ~3 inches. Aligning to within 1 degree sounds hard, but is it really?

Yeah, it's not difficult at ALL, and certainly not more difficult than aligning the putter face perpendicular to some spot offset from your vision.

 

[larrybud]

2 hours ago, klebs01 said:

do you have data that shows lining up to that spot actually gets the puts started on line more accurately than the line? Your claims that 1 degree off will make it miss is completely irrelevant. The only relevant comparison is to other techniques and which has a closer proximity average and make percent for the player vs other techniques. 

Exactly, if not comparing the same player using two different techniques, any data is meaningless. 

It would be like saying that there's no advantage in playing left handed because the average score of right handed vs left handed players is not statistically significant.  Ok, now take 1 player in the test group and make them play the opposite hand. This is an obvious example of why this testing method is completely flawed.

The proper analysis would be to take two groups of players. One group uses the line, the other group doesn't. Now do your testing: Have half of each group hit a series of putts with their preferred method, have the other half hit a series of putts without their preferred method. Now the next day, repeat the experiment, switching off the method, and compare.

I'm sure that most players will be better off using their preferred method, which is why it's their preferred method to begin with.

[klebs01]

1 hour ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

You are most welcome to make a reliable study on the issue and I wish you good luck in doing it. My point all along has been that it is virtually impossible to line up the ball with a line on it in such a way that it would point accurately towards the point intended. Thus I feel that my claim is most relevant as lining up the ball is the key of the entire process. I am surprised you have missed that.

 

My experience a s referee is that players using the line are on the average slower than those who do not use it. Might be a coincidence but that is my view after 15 years of refereeing.

Again, it doesn’t matter if the ball is lined up accurately. It could be lined up 5 degrees off the intended line, but if that results in improved putting performance than using any other method for that player it is still worth doing. 
 

Your experience in 15 year of playing directly conflicts with my 20+ years playing competitive golf. Haven’t seen any correlation between slow play and using a line. Seen many fast players, myself included, that use the line. Slow players will be slow regardless. 

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, larrybud said:

Your eyesight must be terrible if you can't aim a line accurately at 15 feet. 

 

 

Newby and myself share the same poor eyesight...

[Mr. Bean]

Just now, klebs01 said:

1) Again, it doesn’t matter if the ball is lined up accurately. It could be lined up 5 degrees off the intended line, but if that results in improved putting performance than using any other method for that player it is still worth doing. 
 

2) Your experience in 15 year of playing directly conflicts with my 20+ years playing competitive golf. Haven’t seen any correlation between slow play and using a line. Seen many fast players, myself included, that use the line. Slow players will be slow regardless. 

 

1) So, what's the point of using the line if the direction does not matter?? Listen to yourself, man!!

 

2) 15 years of playing..?? Some tutoring in reading skills might help you understand what people are writing. I have played golf over 30 years.

[klebs01]

Just now, Mr. Bean said:

 

1) So, what's the point of using the line if the direction does not matter?? Listen to yourself, man!!

 

2) 15 years of playing..?? Some tutoring in reading skills might help you understand what people are writing. I have played golf over 30 years.

Because that alignment, even if 5 degrees off is still better than any other method that the player may use. How difficult is that to understand? The absolute accuracy doesn’t matter. The relative accuracy does. 
 

So I had a typo. Sweet. 

[Rosco1216]

20 minutes ago, klebs01 said:

Because that alignment, even if 5 degrees off is still better than any other method that the player may use. How difficult is that to understand? The absolute accuracy doesn’t matter. The relative accuracy does. 
 

So I had a typo. Sweet. 

He doesn’t seem to grasp the concept that for people who line it up, that the line can’t be off from our intended line because the line on the ball IS our intended line. 

Edited July 20, 2023 by Rosco1216

[Schulzmc]

A large percentage of people whose livelihood depends on their play use a line on their ball to help them on the putting green. I would never be arrogant enough to call that practice “silly” since I do not earn my living on the golf course. I trust they know what they are doing.

[bobfoster]

22 minutes ago, Schulzmc said:

A large percentage of people whose livelihood depends on their play use a line on their ball to help them on the putting green. I would never be arrogant enough to call that practice “silly” since I do not earn my living on the golf course. I trust they know what they are doing.

People on internet discussion board know way more than pros. They have studies that prove it. 😅

[North Butte]

26 minutes ago, Schulzmc said:

A large percentage of people whose livelihood depends on their play use a line on their ball to help them on the putting green. I would never be arrogant enough to call that practice “silly” since I do not earn my living on the golf course. I trust they know what they are doing.

Yeah, they also back off multiple times, have a long list of twitches and superstitious "routines" that must be done before hitting even the simplest shot and engage in all sorts of other self-indulgent mumbo jumbo that they'll swear blind helps their game.

Being an extremely talented and successful professional athlete does not preclude being an idiot, crazy or both. And if you really try, you can believe anything helps your game, thereby creating a self-fulfilling belief. Once you buy into it deeply enough (abetted by highly paid "sports psychologists" whisper nonsense into your ear) you truly become unable to perform at your best without dutifully obeying every one of your growing list of nonsensical beliefs. 

[MountainKing]

26 minutes ago, Schulzmc said:

A large percentage of people whose livelihood depends on their play use a line on their ball to help them on the putting green. I would never be arrogant enough to call that practice “silly” since I do not earn my living on the golf course. I trust they know what they are doing.

 

They practice their methods for hours on end, it's their job.   It's useful if you know how to use, and have spent hours to learn how to use it.  At our level, if you're spending 60 seconds to line a shot up, you're wasting others time.

[iacas]

Replied to a few posts here in the topic where it's more on topic:

 

[jdl]

10 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

Bod drafted a novel 😀

 

Better than an average morning paper article.

 

That was one of Bob's shortest posts ever. 🤣

 

3 hours ago, Schulzmc said:

A large percentage of people whose livelihood depends on their play use a line on their ball to help them on the putting green. I would never be arrogant enough to call that practice “silly” since I do not earn my living on the golf course. I trust they know what they are doing.

 

The pros spend a ton of time practicing the stroke and are very good at having a repeatable stroke that starts the ball where they intend to hit it. They also have a lot more at stake so utilizing every advantage to getting their ball aligned as well as possible makes sense. Also they tend to play much more difficult courses/greens. Most of us aren't anywhere near that level and the margin for error in hitting a putt, reading the break/speed, etc is way higher. If it does work for you, great. But shouldn't take 60 seconds to do it.

[iacas]

27 minutes ago, jdl said:

Also they tend to play much more difficult courses/greens.

 

Well that's not really true. Holes are cut in 1-2% slopes at a max. I forget which pro said it, but someone asked him what he thought was the most surprising thing about going on Tour, and he said "how many ten footers are played inside the hole" (may have been eight-footers).

 

Players generally putt better on faster greens. The stroke required is smaller and the ball rolls more true. Players three-putt a bit more often, but they make more putts than they three-putt.

 

Edited July 20, 2023 by iacas