Danny Maude and Pete Cowen, role of the right arm

[Hilts1969]

I see it as clockwise rotation of forearm, it can also be felt in the wrist as a clockwise move, right palm away from target and then moving down to the ground.

 

A twist - away from you and down. 

[zacgolf]

A very good video.

 

[art_vandaley]

On 10/30/2023 at 5:48 AM, zacgolf said:

A very good video. 

Did you post this Marcus Edblad video ?? ! OMG Ive been binge watching this guy all day. Never heard of him or his swing style but it looked interesting, and I decided to go outside and hit some balls into the net. Very difficult but when you do the practice I found it very consistent center clubface, and my 56 wedge shots were sailing over my usual landing zone in my front yard. I don't know what to think yet but just when I was trying to get Danny and Petes wrist thing down this guy comes along !

On 10/30/2023 at 5:48 AM, zacgolf said:

 

 

[zacgolf]

1 hour ago, art_vandaley said:

Did you post this Marcus Edblad video ?? ! OMG Ive been binge watching this guy all day. Never heard of him or his swing style but it looked interesting, and I decided to go outside and hit some balls into the net. Very difficult but when you do the practice I found it very consistent center clubface, and my 56 wedge shots were sailing over my usual landing zone in my front yard. I don't know what to think yet but just when I was trying to get Danny and Petes wrist thing down this guy comes along !

 

Yes,

 

another very good one is

 

 

[Duffer Mark]

Looks like Edblad is hitting his pitching wedge 190+ yards with not too much effort.

[Zitlow]

36 minutes ago, Duffer Mark said:

Looks like Edblad is hitting his pitching wedge 190+ yards with not too much effort.

 

It's helps to be as strong as an ox like Marcus. Muscling the ball doesn't work for an ugly bald 170lb weaking like me who can't get any girls. 

 

Edited November 1, 2023 by Zitlow

[Nels55]

28 minutes ago, Zitlow said:

 

It's helps to be as strong as an ox like Marcus. Muscling the ball doesn't work for an ugly bald 170lb weaking like me who can't get any girls. 

 

After 6 decades of trying I think that I figured out the secret.  You simply have to run into the right girl mostly by accident.

[vernon]

20 hours ago, zacgolf said:

Yes,

 

another very good one is

 

 

Never heard of this goofy basterd but he makes a helluva more sense than Pete!

 

Had kinda forgotten about it but one day on the range about thirty years ago a friend of mine and me thought we had invented the worlds greatest drill and it was hitting balls facing the target!

 

In fact we did both facing the target and back to the target and were amazed at how well both worked.

 

We got some other guys to try it and it worked great for them too.

 

But like all "great" things it somehow faded into the blackhole of time and I haven't thought about it or tried it in forever.

 

Today on the range it shall be resurrected!

 

Thanks for sharing.

[hafnia]

I have finally nailed what Cowen is teaching.  I believe he leaves bits out so you have to work it out yourself.

 

basically it's right side powered in a downward fashion and the left side gets out the way. 
 

I posted on the other topic but tonight I went with the notes I made on the last session. For me the right wrist needs to be bent backwards whilst the right arm is almost punched downwards - the right shoulder goes down while the left side posts up.

 

i got daring and started hitting 2 wood off the deck and even driver.... amazing. For me a single plane address works well as it gives you a clue to the plane that the arm needs to move on, steeper on short irons, shallower on long irons. 
 

I think I'm compressing balls for the first time. 

[hafnia]

On 7/23/2023 at 9:10 PM, Nickc said:

Another bit off topic. I found his explanations of "loading the shoulder" for a fade or a draw a bit difficult to follow.

But this one I get..though as he says he feels it all in his right side and is emphasising the role of the right arm (and by extension the right hand) is this going a tad against equal and opposing forces!?

this was what worked for me, it's right sided, the left side reacts to the pressure of the right side going on the ball. The left hip goes back the left shoulder and leg posts up.   The harder you pressure with the right side the left reacts naturally 

[Djmc25]

8 hours ago, hafnia said:

this was what worked for me, it's right sided, the left side reacts to the pressure of the right side going on the ball. The left hip goes back the left shoulder and leg posts up.   The harder you pressure with the right side the left reacts naturally 

I feel this as well. As I shift back into the left side I pressure down w the entire right side which forces my left side to open up at the same rate (duh, they’re connected). 
 

the key for me is after I shift the pressure back into the left side. Pressuring down before I’m braced = over the top. 

[hafnia]

6 hours ago, Djmc25 said:

I feel this as well. As I shift back into the left side I pressure down w the entire right side which forces my left side to open up at the same rate (duh, they’re connected). 
 

the key for me is after I shift the pressure back into the left side. Pressuring down before I’m braced = over the top. 

 

If you throw a few ball as hard as you can at the ground towards target you get the feel - without doing them and moving straight to swing is difficult I find.  

 

What I found worked well yesterday was using a single plane at set up as it gives a visual cue as to the up and down plane, take a strong grip and the downward pressure on handle cocks the club up.

 

The key for me is the swing is downward pressure not a swipe, interestingly it feels like my backswing isnt a focus, you put the club in a place where the downward pressure feels like it can be initiated.

[dekez]

On 7/23/2023 at 6:40 PM, moehogan said:

The clockwise right arm rotation is from the player’s perspective and is part of the loading process completed by P6. The right shoulder is externally rotated and the right forearm is supinated. This winding moves the right elbow into the torso and connects the entire right side to deliver the blow. Add an extended right wrist and you’re fully loaded.
 

From P6 to P7 the right forearm and hand rotate CCW back to neutral. Can’t remember from the vid what “spinning down the right arm” refers to but it’s probably this CCW rotation of the right forearm from P6-P7. 

 

I am late to this thread, but have really gotten on the Cowen bandwagon.  I agree that the ole' bastxxx is hard to understand. 

 

Anyway, I think it is key to point out that while the right forearm and hand rotate, the bicep / upper arm do not.  That's very core to what he is teaching and that a person who may just be picking up these lessons may miss.

[dekez]

Here is a link to a full series (3 videos) of Cowen's overall swing lessons - The Pyramid of Learning.  I like referring back to it when the swing gets off track.

 

 

[EagleAteBirdie]

This is only Danny Maude's interpretation, which I feel is not fully consistent with Cowen's original teachings.  His attempt to simplify it may cause more confusion.

 

I considered Cowen too esoteric or difficult to understand, but the more I listened, drilled, and listened again, the more it made sense. My understanding would improve each time and usually for the better.  So much so that the explanations he used were probably right all along and the best way to explain what he really wants you to do or feel.

 

I rarely consider my inability to understand to be the fault of the teacher.  Sometimes, my current understanding is just not sufficient to fully understand the instructions.  Gifted aside and which I am not - golf instruction is not always as simple as 2+2, and those who think it should be are in for a rough ride.

[hafnia]

2 hours ago, dekez said:

Here is a link to a full series (3 videos) of Cowen's overall swing lessons - The Pyramid of Learning.  I like referring back to it when the swing gets off track.

 

 

 

does he refer to the pressure/spinning arm principle in this?  He's not wearing black.... must be a fake video!!!

 

[dekez]

1 hour ago, hafnia said:

 

does he refer to the pressure/spinning arm principle in this?  He's not wearing black.... must be a fake video!!!

 

 

Haha. Yes, he does but he doesnt use the term spin.  He illustrates it a different way.  I think that is in video 2.

[nitram]

 

[hafnia]

Interesting development on this today, the Jim Waldron backswing worked as a feel.

 

granted each day presents a new opportunity where something that worked the previous day no longer does and you find something else that does!

 

I had 10 minutes with a European tour pro and winner - a while back and he showed me the arm movement in isolation,  the same as what Waldron teaches.

 

its very difficult to do things unless you get matches but that Waldron movement seemed to really got you in a good place to fire that right arm down. 
 

I push down with my left hand and lever the club up to one o'clock whilst folding my right elbow.  It feels very much like a right sided action when you do this.

[nitram]

 

 

Really solid video of Pete's teaching. The "Spin it Down" portion starts at 17:30, but the whole thing is worth watching more than once.

[hafnia]

Really struggled with it today! Hate golf 

[Nicknomates]

On 2/22/2024 at 9:59 AM, hafnia said:

take a strong grip and the downward pressure on handle cocks the club up.

Not sure Mr Cowen advocates a strong grip.

Always thought his mantra of equal and opposite forces in the grip implied a more neutral grip but could be wrong.

 

However, if it works!

[Nels55]

I believe I have watched all the videos and I have no idea what they are trying to say by “spin it down”.

[hafnia]

3 hours ago, Nels55 said:

I believe I have watched all the videos and I have no idea what they are trying to say by “spin it down”.

imagine doing a press up with your right arm, from the lying down position where your fingers point to 12 o clock, to the extended position you are rotating your forearm to point your fingers to 3oclock.

 

so as your right arm uncocks/extends your arm rotating the forearm clockwise and retaining the wrist bend.

 

 

[hafnia]

3 hours ago, Nicknomates said:

Not sure Mr Cowen advocates a strong grip.

Always thought his mantra of equal and opposite forces in the grip implied a more neutral grip but could be wrong.

 

However, if it works!

You can still do the opposite forces on any type of grip, it just stops one hand overpowering the other 

[hafnia]

On 10/21/2023 at 6:17 PM, Nickc said:

Related Cowen drill

 

Danny Maude incorporating it into his standard output of ideas!?

 

 

the second video Danny focuses specifically on the right hand heel pad being the focal point, I tried that focus and after a few reps found my forearm was burning due to muscles contracting 

[Nels55]

7 hours ago, hafnia said:

imagine doing a press up with your right arm, from the lying down position where your fingers point to 12 o clock, to the extended position you are rotating your forearm to point your fingers to 3oclock.

 

so as your right arm uncocks/extends your arm rotating the forearm clockwise and retaining the wrist bend.

 

 

That would be rotating the clubface open by 90 degrees on the way down would it not?

[dekez]

21 hours ago, Nels55 said:

I believe I have watched all the videos and I have no idea what they are trying to say by “spin it down”.

 

Hold your right elbow with your left hand and palm and wrist facing up.  Now rotate your palm and wrist counter-clockwise while keeping your elbow and upper arm in same spot.  That is the spin.  It means the wrist and hand are turning but the upper arm is not.  

 

The down comes from straightening your right elbow from the "L" to straight position during the swing.

 

Doing those to things at the same time (the rotation and straightening the right elbow) will feel like you are whipping a tennis ball into the ground.  That's the spin it down.

[Nels55]

4 hours ago, dekez said:

 

Hold your right elbow with your left hand and palm and wrist facing up.  Now rotate your palm and wrist counter-clockwise while keeping your elbow and upper arm in same spot.  That is the spin.  It means the wrist and hand are turning but the upper arm is not.  

 

The down comes from straightening your right elbow from the "L" to straight position during the swing.

 

Doing those to things at the same time (the rotation and straightening the right elbow) will feel like you are whipping a tennis ball into the ground.  That's the spin it down.

Counter clockwise makes sense that would be from 3:00 towards 12:00 on the clock face on the downswing depending on the orientation of the trail hand grip.  With an on top trail hand there would be a lot of rotation and with an under trail hand not much.  I wonder if Pete Cowan teaches a certain "correct grip"?

Edited February 25 by Nels55

[dekez]

The only thing I have heard him say is that he doesnt care about the grip as long as your hands are opposing one another.