Danny Maude and Pete Cowen, role of the right arm

[Nickc]

On 8/3/2023 at 3:04 AM, Illinilocal92 said:

I found this super informative so I went out and applied it. Now I've completely ruined my golf swing losing 40+ yards and eliminating solid contact and any semblance of consistency I had developed in the prior 3 months. So there's that

It worked for Danny! Perhaps your "applied it" was not quite right?

[argee1977]

He's now uploaded his interpretation video from his lesson.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV1wNLaMCjI

[airjammer]

4 hours ago, argee1977 said:

He's now uploaded his interpretation video from his lesson.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV1wNLaMCjI

Much much clearer of any explanation. 
 

I still stand by my 1st comment earlier that I believe Pete comes up with vague terms to let the student determine what that feels like to them because I see no “spinning” anywhere in that motion. I see and feel basically external rotation of the right arm at the top and basically try to stay in external while straightening the right arm while keeping the right wrist back. 
 

Seems like Danny was confused about that as well with Pete but maybe thats just my perception.  Before I watch it a few times I thought the first video with Pete was about the manzella “Tumble” with a bent right wrist. There’s definitely some “tumble” there but it seems a bit more passive. Seems like the key to the “tumble” is keeping the COM of the club behind the hands while tumbling that of which I haven’t seen a video dedicated to that aspect of the move. 

[Nard_S]

I like this clip, worked with it at the range and loved what I saw. To me it's more about max loading of wrist & forearm and putting everything into a position where I could get full right side unload. I really hope I can make this stick because it was the best session in years. Cleaned up path issues and ball speed was upper end.

Edited August 5, 2023 by Nard_S

[Oldnavycdr]

See Monte's Broom Force.

[tthomasgolfer605]

Why do people try to implement something that's a lesson for someone else? 

[bobfoster]

If I ever have a few weeks where I'm starting to play unusually well - skewing my handicap down - I'll just watch some instructional videos. Almost guaranteed to hose my game for at least a couple of rounds. 

Edited August 5, 2023 by bobfoster

[Nels55]

2 hours ago, bobfoster said:

If I ever have a some rounds where I'm starting to shoot too well - skewing my handicap down - I'll watch a few instructional videos. Almost guaranteed to hose my game for a couple of rounds. 

Sandbagger!  Next time watch an instructional video the night before a big tournament!

[Zitlow]

3 hours ago, bobfoster said:

If I ever have a few weeks where I'm starting to play unusually well - skewing my handicap down - I'll just watch some instructional videos. Almost guaranteed to hose my game for at least a couple of rounds. 

 

Bummer, I was one YouTube video away from a Green Jacket. Back to square one now. 

[MPStrat]

12 minutes ago, Zitlow said:

 

Bummer, I was one YouTube video away from a Green Jacket. Back to square one now. 

Hey man, not to worry, you can buy a more detailed, one-size-fits-all full swing video series. Your green jacket still awaits. 

[Fuscinator]

Really good stuff, and the short game video linked at the end is good stuff, too. For some reason, they remind me of Quint and Hooper in Jaws. 🤣

"Here's to swingin' with bow-legged women."

[Zitlow]

2 hours ago, Fuscinator said:

Really good stuff, and the short game video linked at the end is good stuff, too. For some reason, they remind me of Quint and Hooper in Jaws. 🤣

"Here's to swingin' with bow-legged women."

 

[airjammer]

On 8/5/2023 at 9:33 AM, tthomasgolfer605 said:

Why do people try to implement something that's a lesson for someone else? 

I would classify Cowen as a method teacher in his core principles and I think this video would classify as one of his core principles…keep pressure on the shaft. 

[Hilts1969]

On 8/5/2023 at 3:33 PM, tthomasgolfer605 said:

Why do people try to implement something that's a lesson for someone else? 

Because someone may have similar flaws would be the obvious answer.

[me05501]

Interesting concepts for sure. 

 

The "spin it down" language confuses me too. It doesn't mean much to me. 

 

The net result/finished swing is very similar to the Porzak method which is what I've been committed to trying to feel for the last six months or so. 

Edited August 8, 2023 by me05501

[tdeutmeyer]

Spin it down is confusing to me also, so I am going to just keep calling it cast A per Monte.  The move seems similar to me anyway.

[MPStrat]

11 minutes ago, tdeutmeyer said:

Spin it down is confusing to me also, so I am going to just keep calling it cast A per Monte.  The move seems similar to me anyway.

Those things are completely unrelated 

[bonvivantva]

On 8/5/2023 at 8:15 AM, airjammer said:

Much much clearer of any explanation. 
 

I still stand by my 1st comment earlier that I believe Pete comes up with vague terms to let the student determine what that feels like to them because I see no “spinning” anywhere in that motion. I see and feel basically external rotation of the right arm at the top and basically try to stay in external while straightening the right arm while keeping the right wrist back. 
 

Seems like Danny was confused about that as well with Pete but maybe thats just my perception.  Before I watch it a few times I thought the first video with Pete was about the manzella “Tumble” with a bent right wrist. There’s definitely some “tumble” there but it seems a bit more passive. Seems like the key to the “tumble” is keeping the COM of the club behind the hands while tumbling that of which I haven’t seen a video dedicated to that aspect of the move. 

 

At the 15 minute mark or so Danny says something about rotating the forearms down, and Pete is like, "No, there's no rotating, just spin it down"

[me05501]

2 hours ago, bonvivantva said:

 

At the 15 minute mark or so Danny says something about rotating the forearms down, and Pete is like, "No, there's no rotating, just spin it down"

Cowan must have a different meaning in mind. Maybe a Scottish thing.  

[Hilts1969]

3 hours ago, me05501 said:

Cowan must have a different meaning in mind. Maybe a Scottish thing.  

He's from Yorkshire so I doubt it:-)

 

I think Danny should clarify but his follow up video wasn't overly clear.

 

Personally I see it as the upper arm stays still but the lower forearm rotates.  You can achieve it by using the wrist though by pushing the trail hand palm to the ground. The underside of the forearm(pit) should face away from you in that classic p6 position. 

 

Its a way of externally rotating the right arm/shoulder while closing the face. It's not a new except but it doesn't tell you to contort your elbow forward which is a big plus point in my honest opinion.

[airjammer]

4 hours ago, Hilts1969 said:

He's from Yorkshire so I doubt it:-)

 

I think Danny should clarify but his follow up video wasn't overly clear.

 

Personally I see it as the upper arm stays still but the lower forearm rotates.  You can achieve it by using the wrist though by pushing the trail hand palm to the ground. The underside of the forearm(pit) should face away from you in that classic p6 position. 

 

Its a way of externally rotating the right arm/shoulder while closing the face. It's not a new except but it doesn't tell you to contort your elbow forward which is a big plus point in my honest opinion.

 

11 hours ago, bonvivantva said:

 

At the 15 minute mark or so Danny says something about rotating the forearms down, and Pete is like, "No, there's no rotating, just spin it down"

I can’t recreate this without my forearms rotating a bit. For me even if I bow my left wrist to close the face, my left forearm external rotates a bit. 
 

Nobody knows what “spinning it down”exactly means but him.  It seems like he literally picked one of the most vague terms he could find. When someone spends an hour or so with someone and they still can tell you exactly what it means…you are either be vague for a reason or you must not know the minutiae movements of what you are trying to explain. 

[nova6868]

12 hours ago, bonvivantva said:

 

At the 15 minute mark or so Danny says something about rotating the forearms down, and Pete is like, "No, there's no rotating, just spin it down"

 

Haha. It's confusing but I like Cowen, I appreciate the cranky old Scottish golf instructor who's like "I said spin it down, I will not explain further"  

[me05501]

53 minutes ago, nova6868 said:

 

Haha. It's confusing but I like Cowen, I appreciate the cranky old Scottish golf instructor who's like "I said spin it down, I will not explain further"  

 

Right?? But it's almost like he intentionally chose the most confusing term he could to describe this move.

 

Maybe this is his way of reselling follow-on lessons. In lesson 7 he finally gives you a real description!

 

In watching Danny's follow up video I think the drill showing him bending the alignment stick through the hitting area is helpful. Definitely reminds me of Broom Force. 

[Hilts1969]

1 hour ago, airjammer said:

 

I can’t recreate this without my forearms rotating a bit. For me even if I bow my left wrist to close the face, my left forearm external rotates a bit. 
 

Nobody knows what “spinning it down”exactly means but him.  It seems like he literally picked one of the most vague terms he could find. When someone spends an hour or so with someone and they still can tell you exactly what it means…you are either be vague for a reason or you must not know the minutiae movements of what you are trying to explain. 

Talking about trail/right forearm 

[bonvivantva]

1 hour ago, nova6868 said:

 

Haha. It's confusing but I like Cowen, I appreciate the cranky old Scottish golf instructor who's like "I said spin it down, I will not explain further"  

 

On the one hand it takes a special kind of hubris to object to the word rotate while reiterating the word spin without explanation or differentiating, but on the other hand when instructors get hypertechnical and start talking about ulnar deviation and external rotation I'm lost.  

[PracticeSwinger]

14 minutes ago, bonvivantva said:

 

On the one hand it takes a special kind of hubris to object to the word rotate while reiterating the word spin without explanation or differentiating, but on the other hand when instructors get hypertechnical and start talking about ulnar deviation and external rotation I'm lost.  

I hear ya. But my interpretation of it is eactly that. Guessing, in Cowen terms, that Maude was rotating (meaning, in transition trail shoulder going internal and forearm pronating) which would have him stall / flip - while Cowen wanted him to spin it down (meaning, in transition trail shoulder going external or not rotating much and forearm supinating or spinning it down)

[airjammer]

22 minutes ago, Hilts1969 said:

Talking about trail/right forearm

 

If you believe the AMG data. Every golfer they have measured internally rotate there trail arm from the top of the backswing so this may be the intention but it doesn’t seem to be the reality. 
 

If the right arm doesn’t change in any rotation the club face wouldn’t change orientation either..excluding an left wrist bowing…the clubface wouldn’t be spinning at all. In this scenario only how it looks would be changed as it goes from top backswing to back down in front if you. 

[Hilts1969]

36 minutes ago, airjammer said:

 

If you believe the AMG data. Every golfer they have measured internally rotate there trail arm from the top of the backswing so this may be the intention but it doesn’t seem to be the reality. 
 

If the right arm doesn’t change in any rotation the club face wouldn’t change orientation either..excluding an left wrist bowing…the clubface wouldn’t be spinning at all. In this scenario only how it looks would be changed as it goes from top backswing to back down in front if you. 

I tend to avoid really Anal conversations like degrees of rotations  etc... as I have found them of no use. I believe what he is saying is the elbow doesn't move back when internally rotating the arm.  

 

If you have the elbow pointing down and right wrist extended at the top and do the right palm down(monte broom force  amg right palm down) whilst straightening the right arm then:-)

 

The upper right arm has very little independent rotation. The upper forearm(just below the pit) has little as well.  It's the  lower forearm and wrist that rotates noticeably. 

 

It's why the inside of the forearm and bicep are very much facing away from the golfer at p6.

[MPStrat]

If you guys are working on this move with the trail arm, check out AJ Bonar’s videos with Brendon from Be Better Golf as a supplement to what Pete is saying. AJ speaks more in terms of the end result of what the clubface needs to do “top over bottom” but they are both basically encouraging the same thing. 

 

This is one of the videos from the handful he did with AJ on this subject:

 

 

[PracticeSwinger]

31 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

If you guys are working on this move with the trail arm, check out AJ Bonar’s videos with Brendon from Be Better Golf as a supplement to what Pete is saying. AJ speaks more in terms of the end result of what the clubface needs to do “top over bottom” but they are both basically encouraging the same thing. 

 

This is one of the videos from the handful he did with AJ on this subject:

 

 

Interesting concept with the club face drawing into his palm, to help figure out the trail hand motion / wrist pattern in the hitting zone

Edited August 10, 2023 by Varry_Hardon