Danny Maude and Pete Cowen, role of the right arm

[nitram]

This may be slightly off-topic here but when Cowen explains opposing forces with the grip and then adds the part about wringing out a wet towel, is one of the best tips ever offered to the public. 

[Nickc]

Another bit off topic. I found his explanations of "loading the shoulder" for a fade or a draw a bit difficult to follow.

But this one I get..though as he says he feels it all in his right side and is emphasising the role of the right arm (and by extension the right hand) is this going a tad against equal and opposing forces!?

[Nickc]

Usually after Danny Maude has a session with Pete Cowen he gives a lesson on his channel incorporating the ideas he has been taught. Intrigued to see his interpretation, explanations and drills.

Plus a + to Danny for showing  the flaws in his own swing and being open to try new ideas (to him) to improve.

Edited July 23, 2023 by Nickc

[sjn1]

2 hours ago, nitram said:

This may be slightly off-topic here but when Cowen explains opposing forces with the grip and then adds the part about wringing out a wet towel, is one of the best tips ever offered to the public. 

 Harry Obitz and Dick Farley included this advice on the grip in their book in the 1970s

Edited July 23, 2023 by sjn1
spelling

[Carlito]

On 7/22/2023 at 10:18 PM, moehogan said:

This is gold!

Is spinning down the right arm the same as rotating your entire right arm clockwise in the downswing?

Thanks!

 

Edited July 23, 2023 by Carlito

[RoyalTroon]

39 minutes ago, Carlito said:

Is spinning down the right arm the same as rotating your entire right arm clockwise in the downswing?

Thanks!

 

No, not as you describe the sequence.  The spin, I would argue is more of a turn, is found within the forearm and it is counter clockwise without kicking out the elbow and doesn't have much to do with the arm.  It's basically the radius turning over the ulna.

[moehogan]

33 minutes ago, Carlito said:

Is spinning down the right arm the same as rotating your entire right arm clockwise in the downswing?

Thanks!

 

The clockwise right arm rotation is from the player’s perspective and is part of the loading process completed by P6. The right shoulder is externally rotated and the right forearm is supinated. This winding moves the right elbow into the torso and connects the entire right side to deliver the blow. Add an extended right wrist and you’re fully loaded.
 

From P6 to P7 the right forearm and hand rotate CCW back to neutral. Can’t remember from the vid what “spinning down the right arm” refers to but it’s probably this CCW rotation of the right forearm from P6-P7. 

[baudi]

 

Yeah I like this. Many ways to learn/teach it.

In stead of a cackhanded grip. Pick up a club in the lead hand; put the trail hand over and in front of the grip; fold back into extension and hit 500+ balls  :-).  

If you lack strength, start with a ruler. Keep the resistant pressure between arms and chest.  

Here's link to YT Tom Bertrand showing it from his PoV.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gHAUbL9SwQ

 

[MMB1500]

3 hours ago, Carlito said:

Is spinning down the right arm the same as rotating your entire right arm clockwise in the downswing?

Thanks!

 

 

It's just aggressive rotation of the right forearm to the left on the downswing. NOT the entire right arm.

 

The upper right arm stays relatively stable with the inside crease of the elbow joint pointing directly away from the player at impact. 

 

You should feel some serious torquing in the right forearm. 

Edited July 24, 2023 by MMB1500

[TexasTurf]

Another option is to hit the hell out of the ball without torquing either arm. Much more effective 

[i*windows]

11 hours ago, argee1977 said:

It can be confusing, but it's all dependent on the correct drill for the person trying to learn, Cowen has a few of them, the 'Axe Drill' is the signature one for this, then the flagstick/split hand drill, those are probably better to watch to understand, with Danny Maude he's giving a one to one with feedback, so harder to understand.

here you go 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by i*windows

[argee1977]

Yeah, that one shows the reasoning behind the forearm rotation and more importantly, why with the entire swing drill shown.

 

The flagstick one is pretty similar, but more of a split grip drill, but same thing again.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTJ330f2QlM

[David C]

TGM

+
John Jacobs

+ 

Maximum Golf

= Pete Cowen

Edited July 24, 2023 by David C

[nitram]

17 hours ago, Nickc said:

 . . . though as he says he feels it all in his right side and is emphasising the role of the right arm (and by extension the right hand) is this going a tad against equal and opposing forces!?

 

It would be if he had you stop the swing at impact, but he doesn't.

[vernon]

8 hours ago, i*windows said:

here you go 

 

 

That makes way more sense.

 

Can't believe I've never seen that one before.

 

I like it!

 

[Nickc]

Out of interest has anyone ever had lessons at one of Pete Cowen's academies?

[Carlito]

On 7/23/2023 at 9:00 PM, nitram said:

This may be slightly off-topic here but when Cowen explains opposing forces with the grip and then adds the part about wringing out a wet towel, is one of the best tips ever offered to the public. 

I can not agree more. 

I think you have to pay more attention how the hands placed on a wet towel. You automatically use a split grip (also shown in the flagstick video).

In my opinion it's easier to hold the extension in the right wrist.  The left wrist supinates and you pressure the handle with the right hand more down the shaft. 

 

[Zitlow]

On 7/23/2023 at 1:08 PM, tthomasgolfer605 said:

So does trying to get left early. 

 

Some advice I've seen here recently is to turn the left hip to start the downswing which is a recipe for coming over the top.

 

To prevent coming over the top their pivot stalls and they stand up at impact and hit the ball like sh*t. 

 

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

Fun video.  Thank you for linking it.

 

Anyone else shanking the f&*k out of the ball trying this?  My first time, and the few times I linked flexed-right wrist, right shoulder down, through, and turn, things sailed, but my goodness, did my low point control go to s*=t.

 

I like the idea, even being a lefty playing right handed. ("What?!  My right side has to do most of the work now?  Damn it! My uncle lied to me.....) Looking at Maude's ones where he 'caught it', with a lot of envy and goal-setting.  

 

Thanks again for linking it.

[i*windows]

11 hours ago, Jayjay_theweim_guy said:

Fun video.  Thank you for linking it.

 

Anyone else shanking the f&*k out of the ball trying this?  My first time, and the few times I linked flexed-right wrist, right shoulder down, through, and turn, things sailed, but my goodness, did my low point control go to s*=t.

 

I like the idea, even being a lefty playing right handed. ("What?!  My right side has to do most of the work now?  Damn it! My uncle lied to me.....) Looking at Maude's ones where he 'caught it', with a lot of envy and goal-setting.  

 

Thanks again for linking it.

with shorter irons I find it much easier, actually flushing them. Longer irons I cant seem to get the low point forward enough, but its all good practise 🙂

[Carlito]

On 7/24/2023 at 2:37 PM, David C said:

TGM

+
John Jacobs

+ 

Maximum Golf

= Pete Cowen

Is flipping and club head throwaway the same? Thanks. 

[RoyalTroon]

1 hour ago, Carlito said:

Is flipping and club head throwaway the same? Thanks. 

 

For the most part yes, a bent lead wrist at impact. 

[David C]

20 hours ago, Carlito said:

Is flipping and club head throwaway the same? Thanks. 

Depends on your definition. I’d say no. Yes both probably have a ‘bending’ left wrist.

Common language flip is a jerky motion, out of proportion to the downswing, in order to square the face.

 

TGM flip is ‘on plane to off plane’.

 

You can throwaway but still comply with the ‘law of the flail’. In fact pretty much everyone good does exactly this: their lead wrist is moving into extension through the ball whilst striking the ball with it ‘extended’.

[David C]

On 7/24/2023 at 5:33 PM, Nickc said:

Out of interest has anyone ever had lessons at one of Pete Cowen's academies?

No to academy. Yes to one of his pros separately.

[Carlito]

Regarding to club head throwaway i think i have discovered the following.

You can make a perfect shot with club head throwaway but you depend totaly on perfect timing.

Club head throwaway always results in stopping some body parts.

A fluid motion is out of reach. But club head throwaway is sometimes the only way to save a shot. 

 

In my opinion only a correct "hand action" can protect you to blunder into that trap.

A shot without club head throwaway feels also completely different and much more in control regarding the ball flight. 

 

I don't know exactly in which chapter Lynn Blake was talking about this topic long ago...

 

Edited July 27, 2023 by Carlito

[David C]

I think what is theoretically best should be outright challenged when everyone throws it. You have to reconsider the premise. 
 

Everyone throws it.  It doesn’t stop body parts they are all accelerating and decelerating at various moment. TGM was not written by an athlete so it doesn’t appreciate elasticity and application of power by an athlete.

 

Mr Cowen also coaches a lot of athletes who have reached world class having gone too far the other way. Some need to hit it more ‘heavy’, and gain some control as they have speed to burn.

 

But above all a majority of club golfers spin the body, dump the wrist angles and have wide open clubfaces. Mainly the video is getting you to hit it with a square face that isn’t flip rotating. 

Edited July 28, 2023 by David C

[RoyalTroon]

From Billy Casper:

 

"A friend of mine, teaching pro Dale Andreason, once said that from the time we are infants we do everything contrary to what the good golf swing asks for. Assuming you are right handed you reach over with the right hand to take things off tables, turn the pages of books, or put the cap on the toothpaste tube. But in the golf swing the right hand must go under as though you were scooping your soup from the side of the bowl.

This is against your natural muscle tone, so when starting the club down to the ball the inclination is to turn the right hand over.  This casts the club outward, and it most assuredly closes the club face.  You might try picking things off tables with a sideswipe of the right hand. You can also beat a lot of rugs out in the yard.  But one of the best ways to withstand the tendency to throw the right hand over in the downswing is to concentrate on the move of the left hip".

 

Soup du jour

 

 

[Zitlow]

2 hours ago, BALLYBUNION said:

From Billy Casper:

 

"A friend of mine, teaching pro Dale Andreason, once said that from the time we are infants we do everything contrary to what the good golf swing asks for. Assuming you are right handed you reach over with the right hand to take things off tables, turn the pages of books, or put the cap on the toothpaste tube. But in the golf swing the right hand must go under as though you were scooping your soup from the side of the bowl.

This is against your natural muscle tone, so when starting the club down to the ball the inclination is to turn the right hand over.  This casts the club outward, and it most assuredly closes the club face.  You might try picking things off tables with a sideswipe of the right hand. You can also beat a lot of rugs out in the yard.  But one of the best ways to withstand the tendency to throw the right hand over in the downswing is to concentrate on the move of the left hip".

 

Soup du jour

 

 

 

Jackie Burke and the old timers were smart enough not to mess with the downswing by trying to add extraneous effort to create force. 

[RoyalTroon]

2 hours ago, Zitlow said:

 

Jackie Burke and the old timers were smart enough not to mess with the downswing by trying to add extraneous effort to create force. 

 

Interesting too that a Burke video in my arsenal of treats has him using the same term "sideswipe" while explaining a few things about a swing to Elkington, and Burke was a little before Casper's time in the sun.   Words matter. 

[Illinilocal92]

I found this super informative so I went out and applied it. Now I've completely ruined my golf swing losing 40+ yards and eliminating solid contact and any semblance of consistency I had developed in the prior 3 months. So there's that