How to get more mid range putts to drop ?

[PracticeSwinger]

The WRX community is one of the better informed, how do you get 9-12-15 footers to drop more often than they do right now? We all know about the make rate of the shorter version, pros making roughly half of their 8 footers, so don't read this as a 'I can't believe I didn't make one 12 footer last round!' kind of post, we can manage expectations. And on the flip side, we all know about 3 putt avoidance from longer distance, if a 25 footer drops, it's a bonus but it's not like we're allowed to be frustrated if it doesn't.

 

That leaves us with the mid range kind, Tour guys make rate is around 1/3, which is light years away from what I see from myself, playing partners and any random I'm matched up with. Of course, we're not putting on lightning fast but immaculate greens, but still. Just that, in general weekend warriors have: bad mechanics? no speed control (even though on 10-15 footers there should be more than enough speed/line combos)? don't care much about reading break? play too much on the low side? are too defensive not to 3putt from there?... or is luck playing a major role in green imperfections and there's nothing we can do?... trying to figure out if it's more physical or a mindset?

[getitdaily]

Get better at green reading

Improve speed control

Improve aim

[Patnachts]

I don't think this question is all that complex. Normally amateurs are not good at 1.) starting the ball on line, 2.) reading greens, and 3.) getting the speed right. As you get further from the hole, the chance of an amateur getting it right is very low. For each person it is going to be different, but I would bet on it being that amateurs just need better skills to start see putts from that distance fall.

[North Butte]

I think the question isn't so much why even the best putter in a typical foursome is so bad at making 20-footers. It's how the guys on TV are good at it. It's pretty scary, even if you look at their statistical averages and not just the guys in contention on the weekend. 

[Bigarch]

Quality of strike and speed control... and I think they both go hand in hand.  Without it, your green reading and aim will always be inconsistent.  That translates into inconsistent results.  I'm always amazed at pictures of the wear mark on the face of Tiger Woods' famous putter.  That is just hours and hours of striking the ball consistently in the same spot and putting a good roll on it.

[PracticeSwinger]

4 minutes ago, North Butte said:

I think the question isn't so much why even the best putter in a typical foursome is so bad at making 20-footers. It's how the guys on TV are good at it. It's pretty scary, even if you look at their statistical averages and not just the guys in contention on the weekend. 

Interesting take and it may be the best way to look at it. Let's say I drop 10 balls, different spots, at 15 feet on a normal putting green and take 100$ bets setting the line at o/u 1.5. I'd get rich with the WRX crowd? not so much with Fowler, Dahmen, Hadwin and their buddies.

[MelloYello]

50 minutes ago, Varry_Hardon said:

The WRX community is one of the better informed, how do you get 9-12-15 footers to drop more often than they do right now? We all know about the make rate of the shorter version, pros making roughly half of their 8 footers, so don't read this as a 'I can't believe I didn't make one 12 footer last round!' kind of post, we can manage expectations. And on the flip side, we all know about 3 putt avoidance from longer distance, if a 25 footer drops, it's a bonus but it's not like we're allowed to be frustrated if it doesn't.

 

That leaves us with the mid range kind, Tour guys make rate is around 1/3, which is light years away from what I see from myself, playing partners and any random I'm matched up with. Of course, we're not putting on lightning fast but immaculate greens, but still. Just that, in general weekend warriors have: bad mechanics? no speed control (even though on 10-15 footers there should be more than enough speed/line combos)? don't care much about reading break? play too much on the low side? are too defensive not to 3putt from there?... or is luck playing a major role in green imperfections and there's nothing we can do?... trying to figure out if it's more physical or a mindset?

 

Giving mid-length putts a chance to go in is actually a HUGE part of what makes a lot of great players great.

 

Regardless of skill, you're just not going to hit a lot of irons (or even wedges) inside of 3-ft for easy tap-ins. Even "great" iron shots still leave birdies chances of about 10-ft or 20-ft. What great players do is give themselves 12-15 looks at those kind of putts on their best days and then bury 3-4 of them for a casual 68. 

 

Watch closely any time they face once of those "mid-length" 20-footers that's reasonably straight, right up the hill. I almost guarantee that's the one they hole. They understand very well when it's that moment to give it a run and when it's 100% on them to just hit a spot.  

 

It's not about being able to hit a beer can 15-ft away on flat ground. Good putters can do that bang-bang-bang if there's no break. That's just a good stroke. If you're not surprised a great iron player can stick an 8i tight on a good day, why are you surprised someone can reliably make the easiest, most straight-forward 20-footers they're looking at? 

 

There's nothing more common than the sign of a great player burying a 20-footer to save par simply because clutch does what clutch does, LOL. A lot of that admittedly has to do with knowing the greens and getting real comfortable with the subtleties of each hole on their home course. You won't see that kind of putting performance just anywhere/anytime. 

 

 

I've been putting really good lately from 5-20 feet. For me, it's mostly line. If I read the correct line, I'm pretty free to stroke the ball without any fear at that range. 

 

Short putts and long putts can both be scary for reasons obvious to anyone, but a 15-footer isn't scary from a speed perspective. That's the easy part. So if you can read the subtleties in the green from mid-range and you're really good at starting the ball on line you'll start to see them drop. 

 

I use a line on the ball to set up but aim left/right during setup if I feel I need a little extra. But you'd better be able to roll it end-over-end for 15-ft straight on the putting green. Your stroke needs to be 100% reliable. 

 

 

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Edited August 7, 2023 by MelloYello

[MelloYello]

18 minutes ago, North Butte said:

I think the question isn't so much why even the best putter in a typical foursome is so bad at making 20-footers. It's how the guys on TV are good at it. It's pretty scary, even if you look at their statistical averages and not just the guys in contention on the weekend. 

 

Yeah, fact is the best putters are nothing short of scary. 

 

And I'm serious. 300-yd drives do not intimidate good players. But you come across that guy who can putt and roll a few 15-footers in and it's humbling. 

 

Best putter I know is going to roll everything close from inside 20-ft. Everything coming off his face is going to take a peak inside the hole. It's just taken for granted that he's got a serious chance if he's within 20-ft. It's insane. 

 

.

 

Edited August 7, 2023 by MelloYello

[North Butte]

1 minute ago, Varry_Hardon said:

Interesting take and it may be the best way to look at it. Let's say I drop 10 balls, different spots, at 15 feet on a normal putting green and take 100$ bets setting the line at o/u 1.5. I'd get rich with the WRX crowd? not so much with Fowler, Dahmen, Hadwin and their buddies.

Knowing my own putting stats, I might win the bet once in a while but would lose in the long run. There's probably a slight advantage to getting familiar with the break near the hole after the first few putts. Right now I'm putting just about the best I can putt over these past 40-50 rounds and I'm making 8% of my putts from that range. Even if seeing what the ball does at the hole ups that to 10-12% I'm still short.

 

But yeah, a bunch of Tour players or even almost-Tour caliber putters will clean you out over the long haul on that bet. 

 

 

 

[Trippels]

Based on research by sasho mackenzie, there's a presentation on it on youtube somewhere.

 

Most important is speed, and part of getting the right speed is a matter of greenreading.

Face angle was also important, which of course goes along with speed since where the face is pointing at impact is the most important on where it starts rolling, and the line affects what the right speed is.

 

Club path and impact location on the face were not important factors.

 

So spend lots of time improving your speed and greenreading skills, a bit of time on face angle (e.g yardstick drill)

 

Also keep in mind that even with perfect mechanics, like rolling the ball down a fixed ramp, will miss the putt a significant amount of time when you get above say 10 feet, even on decent greens.

Short mid range putts might be easier on tour because of better greens.

Edited August 7, 2023 by Trippels

[vandyfan]

This will sound like a very stupid comment but playing smoother, better greens has led to more makes from distance. I have made more 25+ footers in the last 2 months than I did the whole year prior and it is all down to the quality of the greens. Same putter. Same bad player. More makes. 

[MelloYello]

Just now, vandyfan said:

This will sound like a very stupid comment but playing smoother, better greens has led to more makes from distance. I have made more 25+ footers in the last 2 months than I did the whole year prior and it is all down to the quality of the greens. Same putter. Same bad player. More makes. 

 

Probably not enough said about that, LOL. 

 

First time I started playing really nice greens, I felt like the 10-footers were just extended 4-footers. They rolled so pure and so fast it was almost like cheating. 

 

The fog sort of cleared and you could see the line much more easily. 

[North Butte]

1 minute ago, vandyfan said:

This will sound like a very stupid comment but playing smoother, better greens has led to more makes from distance. I have made more 25+ footers in the last 2 months than I did the whole year prior and it is all down to the quality of the greens. Same putter. Same bad player. More makes. 

And unless you're talking a very fast (silly fast) green speed you'll make more 15 or 25 footers on fast greens. Of course your 3-putt percentage from that range will also start climbing but for anyone with a halfway decent stroke and steady nerves there's a "sweet spot" where the extra 1-putts outweigh the higher chance of 3-jacking. 

 

I always imagine a graph with green speed on the X-axis and curves for 1-putt %, 3-putt % and total putts. The 3-putt % might stay almost level up to Stimp of 11 or 12 while the 1-putt % goes up and therefore total putts goes down. Then at some point there's be a knee where 3-putt % starts climbing steeply and just past that point total putts starts trending up. 

 

There's a guy at my home course who owns a Stimp meter and brings it out a few times a year when the greens are really cooking. Over the years I think for my putting stroke and those greens, when it passes 12 on his measurement I'm going to get in trouble 3-putting. But when it's at or a little below 12, man it's fun to watch those 20-footers glide along like they're never going to miss. 

[SNIPERBBB]

Obviously puting the ball in the right spot is the easiest thing...keep it below the hole when possible.

 

Gotta put a good roll on it. Most ams don't so putts get knocked offline more.

 

Line and speed has to match up.

 

Don't really see much issues with people being defensive as being the cause of missing putts they should have a realistic chance.

 

I see more misses from guys being afraid to miss inside 3t.

[Fuscinator]

You might try a putter with zero to very little offset. I used to hate putters and would use a 4-iron instead. I ended up stumbling onto an 8802 knockoff (with very little offset) and started making significantly more putts with it (it went where I hit it). Once I wasn't worried about it going somewhere weird, I knew calibrating my speed and improving my reading of the greens needed to get better. Over the years, putting has gone from something I hated to being my favorite part of the game.

[North Butte]

6 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Obviously puting the ball in the right spot is the easiest thing...keep it below the hole when possible.

 

Gotta put a good roll on it. Most ams don't so putts get knocked offline more.

 

Line and speed has to match up.

 

Don't really see much issues with people being defensive as being the cause of missing putts they should have a realistic chance.

 

I see more misses from guys being afraid to miss inside 3t.

I've played a good few times over the years with highly skilled players, anywhere from "mini-tour level" up to one kid who went on to play for a little while on Tour. One thing you definitely notice playing with these guys, you almost never seen any wavering of the ball as it gets rolling. They have the knack (not doubt due to 10,000 hours of practice) of getting that ball rolling pure like 99 out of 100 times. 

 

That comes full circle back to your green reading. If you are *always* rolling the ball well you're accumulating accurate feedback when you miss. If the ball ends up a foot short it isn't because you hit it toward the toe, you read the speed wrong. If you miss three putts in a row on the right side it isn't because you hit it a glancing blow, you aren't seeing the break right or aren't aimed up correctly. 

 

You'll never become a great green reader if half your putts are wobbling off line before they've gone 24" off the putter.

[Primo1868]

I'm not an outstanding player by any means, however, I am a good putter and usually make a couple mid range putts a round. 

 

In the research I have done on this topic - I have come away with two key takeaways:

1) Mindset - @Varry_Hardon, how often are you making a 15fter for bogey compared to a 15fter for birdie? My guess would be most mind range putts drop for you when they are for bogey and not birdie. The average person normally lines up a 15fter for bogey with the intention of making it (and less the intention of two putting) and therefore putts more "free". On the flip side, the average person lining up a 15fter for birdie always has a two putt par in the back of their mind. One thing that has helped me make more mid range putts is being "free", thinking about making the putt first, and trying not to think about two putting for par. I can link the podcast where I first heard this if you would like - I just need to find it.

2) Green reading - I'll admit that I haven't done a classical aimpoint lesson yet, however, I more recently have been relying on my feet to support my eyes when reading greens. Getting the read correctly (and matching up the speed to what you see in your mind) means making more mid range putts. 

[straightshot7]

I think the imperfections on regular, non-Tour greens is a huge factor. It makes luck a serious factor in making mid-range putts.

 

Besides that, I would say speed control.

 

If you have the perfect speed, you increase your chances/size of the hole. See Decade golf I believe.

 

It does help to do drills where you focus exclusively on speed (having the ball end up between 2 tees. Instead of trying to hole putts on the practice green).

 

At the end of the day, you can hang your hat on having great speed. Some will fall, some won't. A bump on the green can always prevent the make, but you did what you could control. 

[vandyfan]

29 minutes ago, North Butte said:

There's a guy at my home course who owns a Stimp meter and brings it out a few times a year when the greens are really cooking. Over the years I think for my putting stroke and those greens, when it passes 12 on his measurement I'm going to get in trouble 3-putting. But when it's at or a little below 12, man it's fun to watch those 20-footers glide along like they're never going to miss. 

 

This is interesting because I am starting to feel the same way. I played municipals for the last 4 years since starting back playing golf and during that time I used to rail against "fast" greens which was basically anything over an 11. So I always thought the ideal spot was 8-10 on the stimp. In the last few months I have been playing one private course exclusively and it is 12-13 on the stimp which initially felt INSANELY fast but I have been making waaaay more putts after I re-calibrated. Stuff just stays on line so much better. So now the big adjustment is still convincing myself I have land my pitches and chips significantly shorter than I am used to. 

[PracticeSwinger]

17 minutes ago, Primo1868 said:

I'm not an outstanding player by any means, however, I am a good putter and usually make a couple mid range putts a round. 

 

In the research I have done on this topic - I have come away with two key takeaways:

1) Mindset - @Varry_Hardon, how often are you making a 15fter for bogey compared to a 15fter for birdie? My guess would be most mind range putts drop for you when they are for bogey and not birdie. The average person normally lines up a 15fter for bogey with the intention of making it (and less the intention of two putting) and therefore putts more "free". On the flip side, the average person lining up a 15fter for birdie always has a two putt par in the back of their mind. One thing that has helped me make more mid range putts is being "free", thinking about making the putt first, and trying not to think about two putting for par. I can link the podcast where I first heard this if you would like - I just need to find it.

2) Green reading - I'll admit that I haven't done a classical aimpoint lesson yet, however, I more recently have been relying on my feet to support my eyes when reading greens. Getting the read correctly (and matching up the speed to what you see in your mind) means making more mid range putts. 

1. Great call, I have that stat (as I'm keeping track of all my shots - lie/distance) and make rate from 10-20ft : bogey > par > birdie - there's definitely an aspect of 'dying' a 15 footer for birdie to insure par that could just slip away 4 feet by. And generally, I can attest to that mindset, with comments from randoms saying 'we always think your putts won't get to the hole, but sure enough they do or get very close' - speaks to true roll (I can make more than a few in a row on my mat from 6-8 feet), aim, but also to that 'defensive' mindset

2. Agreed, and I haven't mastered this for sure. When practicing Aimpoint 'feel' of different slopes, I can't figure out the subtility of it. And when looking from the low side, from behind the hole, from behind the ball - I get a general feeling of the 'track' of the ball to the hole on the speed I want to play, but again that's a vague process.

[ferrispgm]

You can't control making putts.....but you can: 1. Limit excess body movement so you hit the middle of the face. 2 Going along with the first, work on speed control. 3. Learn to read putts competently.  Aside from that, it's luck. Sometimes they go in, sometimes they don't.  Be less focused on making it and more focused on speed over the ball. 

[PracticeSwinger]

And aweome replies so far in that thread. Refreshing, keep them coming!

[PracticeSwinger]

54 minutes ago, Trippels said:

Based on research by sasho mackenzie, there's a presentation on it on youtube somewhere.

 

Most important is speed, and part of getting the right speed is a matter of greenreading.

Face angle was also important, which of course goes along with speed since where the face is pointing at impact is the most important on where it starts rolling, and the line affects what the right speed is.

 

Club path and impact location on the face were not important factors.

 

So spend lots of time improving your speed and greenreading skills, a bit of time on face angle (e.g yardstick drill)

 

Also keep in mind that even with perfect mechanics, like rolling the ball down a fixed ramp, will miss the putt a significant amount of time when you get above say 10 feet, even on decent greens.

Short mid range putts might be easier on tour because of better greens.

I'll try and google it, but if you have the link to that youtube vid, would be appreciated!

[me05501]

I have always been a lag putter to a fault, fully bought into the old saw that long putts should finish inside a 3' circle around the hole.

 

Recently I was discussing my game with one of the buddies I play with all the time. I said something about feeling like I should make more birdies than I do. He said "You're just not a birdie kind of guy." What he meant was that I was too often content with a tap in par. 

 

I decided to try to break my old ways and take on a little more of that "never up, never in" mentality. 

 

When I'm practicing these days I'm giving myself a zero credit for any putt that doesn't reach the hole. I may still think about leaving a long putt inside a 3' circle around the hole, but mentally I want that entire circle to be beyond the cup. Getting the ball to the cup has to be a given. 

 

This has helped me be a bit more aggressive on the course and I've made more of those mid-range attempts. 

[PracticeSwinger]

7 minutes ago, me05501 said:

I have always been a lag putter to a fault, fully bought into the old saw that long putts should finish inside a 3' circle around the hole.

 

Recently I was discussing my game with one of the buddies I play with all the time. I said something about feeling like I should make more birdies than I do. He said "You're just not a birdie kind of guy." What he meant was that I was too often content with a tap in par. 

 

I decided to try to break my old ways and take on a little more of that "never up, never in" mentality. 

 

When I'm practicing these days I'm giving myself a zero credit for any putt that doesn't reach the hole. I may still think about leaving a long putt inside a 3' circle around the hole, but mentally I want that entire circle to be beyond the cup. Getting the ball to the cup has to be a given. 

 

This has helped me be a bit more aggressive on the course and I've made more of those mid-range attempts. 

Came in thinking about that, we're wired the same way : not a member at a club so, especially when playing on slick greens, my mind always drift to 'get it tight' when one could slip away. Have to focus on that mindset

[MPStrat]

26 minutes ago, vandyfan said:

 

This is interesting because I am starting to feel the same way. I played municipals for the last 4 years since starting back playing golf and during that time I used to rail against "fast" greens which was basically anything over an 11. So I always thought the ideal spot was 8-10 on the stimp. In the last few months I have been playing one private course exclusively and it is 12-13 on the stimp which initially felt INSANELY fast but I have been making waaaay more putts after I re-calibrated. Stuff just stays on line so much better. So now the big adjustment is still convincing myself I have land my pitches and chips significantly shorter than I am used to. 

This is my experience as well.
 

Put simply, I make putts when my contact is pure and I’m rolling it well. The days I’m not rolling it as well, I don’t putt terribly, but I don’t make much of anything. 

 

Generally the slower the green, the harder I have to hit putts, the worse my contact and roll, and then therefore the fewer putts I make.   

[Ri_Redneck]

On the topic of fast greens vs slow greens, I find I am FAR less accurate the harder I have to strike the ball. I get on fast smooth greens where I can roll the ball 20' with the same effort it takes to roll it 10' on a fuzzy muni, sure I'll make more longer putts because I'm able to keep the putter face aligned more accurately since I'm not swinging as hard.

 

But NOTHING trumps practice. I can count on NO fingers how many times I've seen an amateur practicing on the putting green like I see the pros do it. No alignment aids, gates or anything. Strictly guessing at break and speed. The pros will put in a hour of so on the putting green before and after their rounds and more than that every day in between. THAT'S why they're good!

 

BT

[North Butte]

48 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

This is my experience as well.
 

Put simply, I make putts when my contact is pure and I’m rolling it well. The days I’m not rolling it as well, I don’t putt terribly, but I don’t make much of anything. 

 

Generally the slower the green, the harder I have to hit putts, the worse my contact and roll, and then therefore the fewer putts I make.   

A friend of mine explained it this way. Putting on slow greens tests your stroke. Putting on fast greens test your nerve. 

[Trippels]

1 hour ago, Varry_Hardon said:

I'll try and google it, but if you have the link to that youtube vid, would be appreciated!

You'll have to skip a bit to get to the usefull stuff

Edited August 7, 2023 by Trippels

[TLUBulldogGolf]

The simple answer is hit more good putts, but there are a lot factors that go into that. Most people have mechanics such that they will only make one by accident. I think speed control is the most important thing once you have a decent stroke.

Edited August 7, 2023 by TLUBulldogGolf