Jack Nicklaus Release

[Jeselnik]

Nothing from Jacks words leads me to believe he had any intent to hold, release or throw from the top.

 

JNIK

 

Per the Golf Digest Article: Nov.21, 2010

 

**********

JACK NICKLAUS: In the left image above, taken in 1995, it looks like I'm purposely delaying the release of the club. But I can assure you I never tried to delay the hit or retain my wrist c0ck. That happens naturally, if you start with a proper grip, maintain a light grip pressure and keep your arms relaxed. It's impossible to release the club too early in the downswing -- as long as you move to your left side and swing the club from inside the target line.

*********

[virtuoso]

Sure, that’s why great players are not necessarily great teachers. There is always a “as long as” mixed in with the “absolutes.”

 

If you follow all of Hogan’s instructions in Five Lessons, you will look nothing like Hogan, let alone hit it like him.

[KD1]

He's an Iron Byron. He's so in tune with his rhythm and sequence it's all automatic. I hit one or two of those a year, feels amazing!

[Hawkeye77]

55 minutes ago, Jeselnik said:

Nothing from Jacks words leads me to believe he had any intent to hold, release or throw from the top.

 

JNIK

 

Per the Golf Digest Article: Nov.21, 2010

 

**********

JACK NICKLAUS: In the left image above, taken in 1995, it looks like I'm purposely delaying the release of the club. But I can assure you I never tried to delay the hit or retain my wrist c0ck. That happens naturally, if you start with a proper grip, maintain a light grip pressure and keep your arms relaxed. It's impossible to release the club too early in the downswing -- as long as you move to your left side and swing the club from inside the target line.

*********

What's your point?

[KD1]

7 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

What's your point?

 

It's been said, that he said, he tries to get the club head to reach the ball before the buttons on his shirt.. or something like that. To me that implies that after he gets to his lead side he's feeling like throwing it while keeping his back to the target, or at least that's what I always thought.

 

I appreciate this clarifying post.

Edited August 30, 2023 by KD1

[virtuoso]

Honestly, as it relates to the average golfer, it doesn’t really matter what he “felt”, as expressed in whatever golf article.

Edited August 30, 2023 by virtuoso

[cgasucks]

A former World #1 and the 2001 British Open Champion agrees with Jack too.

 

 

[MPStrat]

1 hour ago, Jeselnik said:

Nothing from Jacks words leads me to believe he had any intent to hold, release or throw from the top.

Agreed

[bladehunter]

5 minutes ago, cgasucks said:

A former World #1 and the 2001 British Open Champion agrees with Jack too.

 

 

Duvals action is still top 5 all time for me. Just so little effort. 

[tthomasgolfer605]

Jack had a much different concept of what the release actually is. It's not a casting move he's describing. 

[Fuscinator]

1 hour ago, KD1 said:

 

It's been said, that he said, he tries to get the club head to reach the ball before the buttons on his shirt.. or something like that. To me that implies that after he gets to his lead side he's feeling like throwing it while keeping his back to the target, or at least that's what I always thought.

 

I appreciate this clarifying post.

The clubhead has a lot farther to go than anything else in the golfswing, so some effort has to be made to catch it up with the rest of the swing at the right point.

[KD1]

3 minutes ago, Fuscinator said:

The clubhead has a lot farther to go than anything else in the golfswing, so some effort has to be made to catch it up with the rest of the swing at the right point.

well.. not for Jack. I think that's the point of this post is it not?

[virtuoso]

52 minutes ago, cgasucks said:

A former World #1 and the 2001 British Open Champion agrees with Jack too.

 

 

Regarding this video, I feel like a mosquito at a nudist colony--I wouldn't even know where to begin.

[MPStrat]

21 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

Regarding this video, I feel like a mosquito at a nudist colony--I wouldn't even know where to begin.

😂 
 

Well I’m going to remove this from consideration on what Jack meant, and assign it to the Hogan “three right hands” folder. I think it’s better in there. It’s one of the dozen or so people claim. Probably the worst one, though. 

[Jeselnik]

39 minutes ago, Fuscinator said:

The clubhead has a lot farther to go than anything else in the golfswing, so some effort has to be made to catch it up with the rest of the swing at the right point.

 

35 minutes ago, KD1 said:

well.. not for Jack. I think that's the point of this post is it not?

Jack is describing a late CF release.

 

JNIK

[virtuoso]

13 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

😂 
 

Well I’m going to remove this from consideration on what Jack meant, and assign it to the Hogan “three right hands” folder. I think it’s better in there. It’s one of the dozen or so people claim. Probably the worst one, though. 

yeah, he says, "and then match it up with your rotation."

 

Oh really? What rotation?....This rotation:

[virtuoso]

12 minutes ago, Jeselnik said:

 

Jack is describing a late CF release.

 

JNIK

Is that the inverse of an early cp release?

[Chunkitgood]

35 minutes ago, Fuscinator said:

The clubhead has a lot farther to go than anything else in the golfswing, so some effort has to be made to catch it up with the rest of the swing at the right point.

As I understand it so called centrifugal force will tend to straighten out all the components of the arm/club arrangement.  This would include the angle between the club and left wrist (radial deviation it may be called) and the angle between the right hand and the right wrist caused by extension of that wrist, as well as the angle between the shaft and club face and the target line as perceived by the golfer.  The force just tends to pull everything into a strait line pointing away from the center of rotation.

 

It has been demonstrated that if the release of the “wrist c0ck” happens naturally, the hands slow down as the club head speeds up, and a poor shot results.  Some force or negative couple must be applied to retard that release.  What the subjective feeling of that may be apparently varies.  Obviously it is a mistake to try to retard this release too much, or even into impact as some people try to do apparently.

 

When I say early or late, it is relative to the sequence of movements of the swing, rather than any absolute time scale, so that it may be impossible to release the writ c0ck too early…as long as you move to your left side and swing the club from inside the target line.

 

 

[KD1]

1 hour ago, Chunkitgood said:

It has been demonstrated that if the release of the “wrist c0ck” happens naturally, the hands slow down as the club head speeds up, and a poor shot results.

 

For my own edification do you have any links handy for this specific demonstration? (I understand the sequence of reactions, I'm just not clear on why natural must = poor results)

 

Edited August 30, 2023 by KD1

[Zitlow]

Austin didn't palmar flex his right hand from the top. His right hand unfolded through the ball. It was the last link in the chain, the club moves in a 180* semi-circle. 

Edited August 30, 2023 by Zitlow

[MonteScheinblum]

There are two issues here.

 

1.  People don’t have early release because they’re not holding it off. Early release is an effect.

 

2.  For many people, the feel of releasing early actually has the opposite effect as much of the downswing is a reaction.  

[golfarb1]

[MK7Golf21]

3 hours ago, cgasucks said:

A former World #1 and the 2001 British Open Champion agrees with Jack too.

 

 

 

 

to be fair this was filmed when Duval was trying to make a come back on the pga tour like 10 years ago of whenever it was. He started working with Matt Kuchars coach Chris O Connell, the one plane swing guys. The one plane guys like Chris are big on that type of release and being on top of the plane. They like to see the shaft exit super low on the body in the follow through, basically a steep anti left move unless you pull it of course. I remember watching Duval on the range at the john deere before the Open around that time when he had just started working with Chris, he had missed the cut at the john deere and was doing some work with Chris before flying over to the Open. Chris was having him swing super over the plane and left with that release. He was hitting the steepest open face slices trying to swing way left, I'm talking 200 yard slices with the driver. I knew he was done after watching that session.

 

@MonteScheinblum has mentioned he talked to Duval in the 90's about his feels so I would take those more seriously than this video but if I recall it was something about releasing the angles immediately from the top.

[Fuscinator]

3 hours ago, virtuoso said:

Regarding this video, I feel like a mosquito at a nudist colony--I wouldn't even know where to begin.

Avoid wrinkles.

[Fuscinator]

3 hours ago, KD1 said:

well.. not for Jack. I think that's the point of this post is it not?

I'm not sure what you're saying. My post, or the OP's?

 

Anyway...Malaska, Hocknull, and some of the Mike Austin folks will bring this quote up when arguing for the idea that one should deliberately move the clubhead down from the top (via ulnar deviation, "folding over", "tumbling", or "spinning the meatballs"). The dreaded flip that most worry would occur as a result is moved past the ball by the pivot (whether "roll flipping" or flipping under). Dan Alton discusses this point from a slightly different perspective...

 

[MK7Golf21]

I'll also say this about that range session. Chris was instructing Duval to release the crap out of it along with that over the top steep move he was teaching him. Reason for this was because Duval was hitting those 200 yard slices with the steep move. Chris was kept telling him to get the face more closed and was showing him that release in the video above. I'd just take that video with a grain of salt is all.

[KD1]

31 minutes ago, Fuscinator said:

I'm not sure what you're saying.

 

Yeah, I get that a lot.

 

When I hear the out of context quote of Jack talking about feeling like the club head reaches the ball before the buttons on his shirt, especially coming from malaska, or coming from being a student of NTC, in my head I thought Jack was talking about active wrist action.

 

The way I'm now interpreting the quote in OP's original post contradicts that. Jack is saying his wrists are relaxed, no?

 

When you said "some effort has to be made to catch it (the club head) up with the rest of the swing at the right point" I had wrists on my mind so thought you were talking about some effort in the wrists... so "not for jack".

 

"In the left image above, taken in 1995, it looks like I'm purposely delaying the release of the club. But I can assure you I never tried to delay the hit or retain my wrist c0ck. That happens naturally, if you start with a proper grip, maintain a light grip pressure and keep your arms relaxed. It's impossible to release the club too early in the downswing -- as long as you move to your left side and swing the club from inside the target line."

So what is release to Jack? It would seem "released" isn't something so objective like when the club head passes the hands for example. Release is just... he let's it go, he releases active control of the club by his wrists anyway. Obviously effort from somewhere is made to catch it up, but it would seem that jack doesn't feel that he applies that effort through his wrists. Again, hearing Malaska talk about Jack often, I wouldn't have guessed that a few hours ago so this is all very interesting to me.

 

Anyway, I'll hang up and listen.

Edited August 30, 2023 by KD1

[MonteScheinblum]

9 minutes ago, KD1 said:

 

Yeah, I get that a lot.

 

When I hear the out of context quote of Jack talking about feeling like the club head reaches the ball before the buttons on his shirt, especially coming from malaska, or coming from being a student of NTC, in my head I thought Jack was talking about active wrist action.

 

The way I'm now interpreting the quote in OP's original post contradicts that. Jack is saying his wrists are relaxed, no?

 

When you said "some effort has to be made to catch it (the club head) up with the rest of the swing at the right point" I had wrists on my mind so thought you were talking about some effort in the wrists... so "not for jack". Anyway, I'll hang up and listen.

The analogy I always make is the one following my knee surgery in 2017.  What’s more thoughtless than walking?  Very little, yet I had to actively do things when I walked, because I had poor mechanics that was affecting the way my body felt.  Feet turned out, shoulders rolled in, forward bend and chin down.  I walked the way I addressed a golf ball.  It took active action for me to walk correctly and do things that are supposed to happen automatically.

 

The swing works the same way.  If you’re an 8, 12, 15, 25 handicap, you have to actively do many things for a time that seem to come naturally to those from scratch to pro.

[KD1]

50 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

The analogy I always make is the one following my knee surgery in 2017.  What’s more thoughtless than walking?  Very little, yet I had to actively do things when I walked, because I had poor mechanics that was affecting the way my body felt.  Feet turned out, shoulders rolled in, forward bend and chin down.  I walked the way I addressed a golf ball.  It took active action for me to walk correctly and do things that are supposed to happen automatically.

 

The swing works the same way.  If you’re an 8, 12, 15, 25 handicap, you have to actively do many things for a time that seem to come naturally to those from scratch to pro.

 

I hear you, and I'm not arguing with you or criticizing NTC in any way. And I know feel isn't real. Assuming I'm interpreting this all correctly I'm just a little bit surprised to learn Jack is a "passive" wrists guy, that's all.

Edited August 30, 2023 by KD1

[MonteScheinblum]

Just now, KD1 said:

 

I hear you, and I'm not arguing with you or criticizing NTC in any way. And I know feel isn't real. Assuming I'm interpreting this all correctly I'm just surprised to learn Jack is a "passive" wrists guy, that's all.

I knew you weren’t criticizing anything.  It’s a discussion how we can all get better.