If you could choose: "I get lots of eagle putt opportunities" game vs "I'm pinpoint accurate but can't get home in 2" game types

[RoyalMustang]

Just curious as to which type of game people would choose, and why? Assuming you could only have one. Either very accurate but not long off the tee, or long off the tee but more mistake prone. Bigger upside vs more reliable game and tighter variances. Age notwithstanding (I've played with early 50's guys still hitting 300 and mid 20's guys that can't get over 240).  

 

I know that most don't have the luxury of choosing: most people that are both long and accurate are plus indexes, at least that I've seen. A guy who is 310 off the tee, in the fairway all day, is going to get a lot of good birdie looks.  

 

[david.c.w]

100% pinpoint accurate.  I gave up on trying to be a "bomber" years ago when I realized good scores are about course management and trying to keep 6 off the scorecard.  My average score is 100% higher when going for a green in 2 vs strategically marching myself up the fairway.  

 

Amazing how well you can play when you focus on making no more than a 5.

 

 

[LeoLeo99]

Years ago I was long and wild and could get home in two on long par 5s. Today, I'm a much shorter and straighter hitter.  I'm also a better golfer today vs when I was a young and wild.  Funny thing is that I've had a lot more eagles hitting it straighter.  

[caniac6]

My age, and shoulder surgery have chosen for me. Probably no eagle putts in my future, so I better be accurate.

[MelloYello]

5 hours ago, RoyalMustang said:

Just curious as to which type of game people would choose, and why? Assuming you could only have one. Either very accurate but not long off the tee, or long off the tee but more mistake prone. Bigger upside vs more reliable game and tighter variances. Age notwithstanding (I've played with early 50's guys still hitting 300 and mid 20's guys that can't get over 240).  

 

I know that most don't have the luxury of choosing: most people that are both long and accurate are plus indexes, at least that I've seen. A guy who is 310 off the tee, in the fairway all day, is going to get a lot of good birdie looks.  

 

 

To be honest, there's no one answer (about anything). The truth resists simplicity. 

 

If we're talking about developing golfers you always want the raw potential so you can refine it. It's way easier to learn to control the ball than it is to somehow add in that extra power one don't posses. The latter usually takes dramatic changes to lifestyle and we see it way less often (i.e. Bryson), perhaps never in regular Joes. 

 

By contrast, golfers who have learned to sharpen their skills, make better decisions and keep it in play (thus getting down to being low handicaps) are the norm. It's WAY easier to polish what's there than to try and create something that isn't. 

 

If we're talking about more experienced golfers who only play on the same 6,000- or  6,500-yd course each week where they can learn all the necessary aiming points and never actually need to hit it very far then obviously distance isn't as big an advantage (especially if a course winds through houses where there's OB on either side of each hole).

 

So it depends what the course is asking of the player. If you want to play 7,200-yds and you're a short-hitter who's strength is being "super accurate" you're still going to suffer because the course is just too long.

 

When it comes to distance it's sometimes helpful to think of there being a required minimum as well as a point of diminishing returns. You need a certain minimum, but above some other point it becomes kind of redundant because other skills matter, too. 

 

 

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Edited September 18, 2023 by MelloYello

[Denny100]

id say the vast majority of courses we play are all about "pinpoint" golf.

 

Being more pinpoint would certainly help my slightly wayward driving.

 

If the course was wide open i feel i can get some eagle looks in SPITE of my driving but these courses are the minority

[b.mattay]

Depends on how wild. If you're not hitting in hazards all day, I'm taking the long hitter.

Everyone will have bad ball striking days, but your bad with driver-wedge is going to be better than a short hitter's bad with driver-6 iron.

 

For what it's worth, I play around +2/+3 hitting about 40% of my fairways. I just don't hit it into penalties often. 

[SNIPERBBB]

If I  get to have lots of eagle opportunities, I choose that one. Doesnt mean that I get the big bird, but I will at least get the little bird. Always better to have the power and not need it. You just have to be accurate enough. Playing the par 5s  at -2 to -4 every round is what made Tiger so dominant in his early days because the Par 5s were practically guarantied birdies for him until the tiger-proofing began.

[TLUBulldogGolf]

I can always club down as a long hitter. I'd rather have the distance as it's harder to develop. 

[getitdaily]

100% choose 4 eagle putts per round over pinpoint accuracy. 

[Ri_Redneck]

I wouldn't take either one. There must be BALANCE!

 

BT

[st1800e]

Well,  some people have both, but they're busy playing significant tournaments.....

 

Me? can count on one hand the number of "real" par fives I've hit in two, even when I was a one.  Now a couple decades later?  "almost" never.     

 

So I work on accuracy.  

[SNIPERBBB]

6 hours ago, st1800e said:

Well,  some people have both, but they're busy playing significant tournaments.....

 

Me? can count on one hand the number of "real" par fives I've hit in two, even when I was a one.  Now a couple decades later?  "almost" never.     

 

So I work on accuracy.  

What is a "real" par 5? We have a par 5, 18th, at our course that got really shortened for two years because our money games and men's league allows anyone 65 and over to play from the black(senior tees) which are basically the ladies tees on all but 2 holes on our course.  So they moved the mens tees up to the senior/lady tee box because it was so unfair for people playing against the seniors as the normal mens tee location you cant hit a layup shot to avoid the trouble  220 yards from the tee as the layup brings even more trouble into play. The senior/lady tees, you basically get to skip all the trouble unless you shank or duck hook your tee shot. When they moved the tees up, I could be hitting my 54* and sometimes even the 58* into the green. Total yardage for the hole was sub 400 from the senior/ladies tee. They've built a new tee box for the seniors farther back so things are back to normal as the seniors now have to hit a decent shot again. 

[doctor220]

Distance is basically your scoring potential. Not many short hitters that go super low 

[st1800e]

56 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

What is a "real" par 5?

Anything over 450 yards.  Yes, I’ve played some holes well under that that were listed on the card as par 5.  

[SNIPERBBB]

8 minutes ago, st1800e said:

Anything over 450 yards.  Yes, I’ve played some holes well under that that were listed on the card as par 5.  

I believe that's what the USGA recommends as the minimum length for a par 5 as the scratch golfer is figured to drive 250 and the a second shot length of 200

[virtuoso]

Isn’t this just the hot/crazy graph for golf?

[SNIPERBBB]

 

28 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

Isn’t this just the hot/crazy graph for golf?

Pretty much

[RoyalMustang]

On 9/20/2023 at 6:26 AM, st1800e said:

Anything over 450 yards.  Yes, I’ve played some holes well under that that were listed on the card as par 5.  

 

450 on a driver hole is crazy short even still. Guys like me are hitting driver-gap wedge on a par 5 that short. I played with a good HS kid recently from the regular mens tees, not tips, and he got home in 2 on every par 5 (average is right at 500 yards). I was 3/4 from those tees. It's a big reason those kids are shooting 68 or 70. Interestingly, the course recommends 250-275 distance to play from the regular mens, 275+ for tips, which makes a ton of sense.

 

I don't think every par 5 should be automatically reachable: you still should have to hit two back to back 8/10 or better quality shots to be on in two. For example, if I hit driver and then have to flush a hybrid 230 uphill into a narrow green to get on in two, that's a great sequence for me and NOT going to happen every time, or even every other time. If I play the regular mens tees on that hole, it's driver and 6-iron, which doesn't require the same level of skill. Still no gimmie but a heck of a lot easier.   

[Mcgeeno]

These questions are always worded slightly different but the answer should almost always be the same.

 

Distance is typically the best indicator for quality amateur golf and getting to low numbers. Outliers exist but in general it is the most important IMO. 

 

Give me a 9 yard pitch from the rough over a 120 yard pitch shot. 

[aggiegolfer21]

Not that I have any data to back this up, but based on my experience, 10 handicaps and lower need more distance.  11 up need more accuracy.  This is generally speaking of course.

[RoyalMustang]

On 9/22/2023 at 11:22 AM, aggiegolfer21 said:

Not that I have any data to back this up, but based on my experience, 10 handicaps and lower need more distance.  11 up need more accuracy.  This is generally speaking of course.

 

Looking at my grint stats just now, I'm far stronger on a par 5 than a par 4 or 3. This is probably due to a couple of factors:

 

-in normal conditions, I always have a good chance to get get home in 2 from the tips on a 530 yard par 5. If not home, then close enough for a makeable birdie putt. 

 

-the par 3s at my course average just short of 200, with 2 being 210+ or longer in certain conditions. I suppose this is probably the hardest shot of the day in many cases. 

 

Looks like I need more accuracy! 

[aggiegolfer21]

20 hours ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

Looking at my grint stats just now, I'm far stronger on a par 5 than a par 4 or 3. This is probably due to a couple of factors:

 

-in normal conditions, I always have a good chance to get get home in 2 from the tips on a 530 yard par 5. If not home, then close enough for a makeable birdie putt. 

 

-the par 3s at my course average just short of 200, with 2 being 210+ or longer in certain conditions. I suppose this is probably the hardest shot of the day in many cases. 

 

Looks like I need more accuracy! 

 

My comment on this wasn't meant to be universal.  Obviously there are going to be outliers.  However, one thing to note is that accuracy can be found in distance.  The further you hit it the shorter club you have in.  Even on par 3's - if you hit a 7 iron instead of a 6 iron for your 180 or 190 yard shot, you are going to be more accurate with the same swing.  The question is can you keep it in play with the driver while hitting it farther.  If so, distance is going to benefit you.  You're a 5 handicap which means you hit it pretty solid already.  It's probably going to be tough to pickup loads more accuracy.  Looking at your stats, it's very interesting that you make a 4 28.1% of the time on par 5's yet make 4 only 40% of the time on par 4's.  That may be a strategy issue there.