Do your breakthroughs come during coaching sessions or when you have an "ah-ha" moment when playing?

[RoyalMustang]

I wondered about this as I do get consistent coaching (probably every other month for a lesson) but while we work on things there to get a better understanding of my swing, when I truly make a breakthrough that translates onto the course, it usually comes as a result of me making a swing later on, understanding or feeling what I did, and then repeating it. Do good players rely on their coaches for improvement, or do they use them more as a "base" of knowledge, practice a lot, and figure it out for themselves?   

 

The thing that sucks is that I play a lot of golf: I'm not sure I would have these "ah-ha" moments if I didn't.  I have found that making that right movement beats all the practice in the world, but if I have to practice for 100 hours to stumble onto the correct movement, it's not efficient! 

[Kuuuch]

I've done online/facetime lessons with Dan for many years now and here's my .02. Aha moments or what I call figuring out a move/how to do it/what works best etc. usually comes on average a week or a couple weeks post lesson. Never on the course and rarely during the actual lesson (for more straightforward stuff it could be almost immediately but the tougher stuff typically takes some time). The biggest things I want to take away from a lesson is 1) I know how to work on this/some different ways to do it 2) full understanding of what's the issue and the impact it has on shot shape/contact etc. 

 

Part of the tough part with online lessons to be fair is figuring out how to best work on something and what drill/feel/routine gives you the best results often times takes some trial and error. A lot easier when the instructor is there in person with you. For every swing fault, there are typically a number of different drills/feels etc. to fix it and every person is a little different. 

 

Likely controversial but imo many folks could receive the perfect advice/explanation for what's wrong in their swing and drills to follow from a top tier instructor but that doesn't mean they will be successful. So much imo falls on the student to implement changes correctly.

[vandyfan]

Agree on the above. I might have an "ah-ha" moment mid lesson but it is fleeting because the instructor is usually giving me an exaggerated feel to get me there. There is less of an "ah-ha" moment for me and more of a gradual wave of improvement or like I am whittling down a swing issue or some problem has crept back into my swing. It is only when I step back and think, wow my ball striking is much better now or I don't have that same miss anymore. 

 

On the instructor thing, I used to take 1.5 hour long lessons. Those felt like I was "getting my money's worth" because the instructor would diagnose a problem (usually within the first 5-10 minutes) and then we would grind on it for an hour and then wrap up. Now, I am at the point where I prefer just doing 10-20 minute "check-ins" because really I just want to diagnose the current issue, get a few feels and drills to address it, a way to check it independently, and then I need to work on it frequently until it no longer feels like a "change" and is now just "part of my swing."

 

The "ah-ha" moments always seemed fleeting, like a band-aid or a quick fix. Lately, the big changes I have made through numerous net and range sessions feel more like fundamental, gradual changes that have small encouraging ah-ha feelings that become more and more frequent as I correctly apply the change....if that makes any sense. 

[nitram]

40 minutes ago, Kuuuch said:

 

Part of the tough part with online lessons to be fair is figuring out how to best work on something and what drill/feel/routine gives you the best results often times takes some trial and error. A lot easier when the instructor is there in person with you. For every swing fault, there are typically a number of different drills/feels etc. to fix it and every person is a little different. 

 

Likely controversial but imo many folks could receive the perfect advice/explanation for what's wrong in their swing and drills to follow from a top tier instructor but that doesn't mean they will be successful. So much imo falls on the student to implement changes correctly.

100% on target.

[mvvraz]

I usually have mine at the 16th hole after a miserable day and I spend the rest of the weekend contemplating why I was so stupid to not think of it the entire time 

 

 

[GungHoGolf]

Never on the course. Usually during solo practice experimenting with different feels on TrackMan, as the feedback is immediate and the results provable.

[getitdaily]

Not usually during play. Almost always during range time and then validated during a lesson. Having a launch monitor really helps because you feel the different feel and see what your club did.

[MelloYello]

Have to be honest, I don't really know what qualifies as an "ah-ha moment." Maybe you can elaborate. I play a ton of golf usually 3-5 times per week so things are always evolving.  

 

You're saying it's a revelation just feeling something different during a lesson or experimentation sesh or perhaps setting up slightly differently on the course? 

 

To me, there are not really such things as "breakthroughs." Your swing is constantly evolving. It's a continuum over time, even if you're trying to keep it going during a hot stretch. 

 

23 hours ago, RoyalMustang said:

Do good players rely on their coaches for improvement, or do they use them more as a "base" of knowledge, practice a lot, and figure it out for themselves?   

 

To that topic, I'm a big believer that a coach is just a source of information. He/She can't swing the club for you. You've got to do the work "figuring out" how to incorporate something into your practice, prep and play. I know I sound like a broken record with that but seriously, a coach is a consultant. As TW said, you take from them what helps you and toss aside what doesn't. 

[MK7Golf21]

1 hour ago, mvvraz said:

I usually have mine at the 16th hole after a miserable day and I spend the rest of the weekend contemplating why I was so stupid to not think of it the entire time 

 

 

 

Had that happen quite a few times, figure something out towards the end of the round. Problem is that you try it the next round and it doesn't work the same, lol. 

 

I think it's mostly from getting in a groove with your swing that day by then. I pretty much never hit the range prior to a round so you are warming up the entire front 9 figuring out your body and feels that day.

Edited September 27, 2023 by MK7Golf21

[getitdaily]

10 minutes ago, MelloYello said:

Have to be honest, I don't really know what qualifies as an "ah-ha moment." Maybe you can elaborate. I play a ton of golf usually 3-5 times per week so things are always evolving.  

 

You're saying it's a revelation just feeling something different during a lesson or experimentation sesh or perhaps setting up slightly differently on the course? 

 

To me, there are not really such things as "breakthroughs." Your swing is constantly evolving. It's a continuum over time, even if you're trying to keep it going during a hot stretch. 

 

 

To that topic, I'm a big believer that a coach is just a source of information. He/She can't swing the club for you. You've got to do the work "figuring out" how to incorporate something into your practice, prep and play. I know I sound like a broken record with that but seriously, a coach is a consultant. As TW said, you take from them what helps you and toss aside what doesn't. 

I'll give an example of what I think he's talking about ..

 

Last year I started to get too lateral in the downswing. I was too forward at p5 and it was causing issues. I had been perusing ground force stuff on YouTube so I started toying with pressure shifts at various times. I tried late, I tried in transition, I tried early. It was through this trial and error and the resulting face on video feedback that I saw that almost immediate pressure (hard pressure) into my lead foot eliminated my overly lateral move. That reinforced that I needed to understand pressure and gf a lot better and has led to a wholesale change to my swing. 

 

Another one was after a video of cam Mccormick and Celine boutier working on partial wedge shots. He had her move to the clock method with "the same energy and effort in the downswing for every shot". I went out for short game work later that week and tried the method for 30 yard pitches and I was an instant believer.

[xabia]

I have one every day! To be clear a new (incorrect) one every single time I play

[RoyalMustang]

29 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

I'll give an example of what I think he's talking about ..

 

Last year I started to get too lateral in the downswing. I was too forward at p5 and it was causing issues. I had been perusing ground force stuff on YouTube so I started toying with pressure shifts at various times. I tried late, I tried in transition, I tried early. It was through this trial and error and the resulting face on video feedback that I saw that almost immediate pressure (hard pressure) into my lead foot eliminated my overly lateral move. That reinforced that I needed to understand pressure and gf a lot better and has led to a wholesale change to my swing. 

 

Another one was after a video of cam Mccormick and Celine boutier working on partial wedge shots. He had her move to the clock method with "the same energy and effort in the downswing for every shot". I went out for short game work later that week and tried the method for 30 yard pitches and I was an instant believer.

 

Yeah, that's a great point. I've been very good recently inside of 130 yards; I don't have a specific "clock" method (although if my club goes to parallel with the ground it's probably flying 45 yards). I just adjust my backswing length by feel and how much I have choked down, but the tempo is always the same on these. It results in a well-struck, center of face wedge with repeatable distance and plenty of backspin.  

 

My wife is a percussionist and suggested saying "hammer-of-thor" for my tempo. Without a metronome playing, they have to make theirs up to baseline whatever time signature they are playing to. 

 

"Hammer" is my backswing, which ends up being a bit slower on these 80 yard shots as I am not making a full turn. "Of" is the transition at the top, and "Thor" is my acceleration through the ball. I've been doing this on most of my shots, but it's especially handy on less than full swing wedges, as it's easy to get too short in the transition and not get a proper load. It also helps on the full-swing driver tee shots, as staying patient at the top is key for me to drive the hips and turn instead of sliding the body. 

[MK7Golf21]

I remember one aha moment on the course when I was on vacation playing some friends in a money game. Swing felt a bit off the front 9, was hitting some pulls and remember feeling like I couldn't aim at the pin or I would just pull it. Figured I was too shallow going into the ball and had face control issues so back 9 I decided screw it, I'm just going turn my left shoulder steep to the ball and take the club back like hooded like brooks koepka the entire swing. I ended up shooting one of my lowest 9 holes ever and thought I was onto a new swing change. It was just point and shoot with little effort. Next round didn't work out the same, lol. It's the reason you see guys shoot 62 and can't back it up the next day.

 

 

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by MK7Golf21

[me05501]

I'm pretty nerdy, but I like to keep a notes file about the state of my game and add to it as these ideas develop. I used Google Docs and add the most recent notes to the top of the document. 

 

When I get lost I scroll back to the last "a ha" moment and reset a little bit. 

[b.mattay]

2 hours ago, me05501 said:

I'm pretty nerdy, but I like to keep a notes file about the state of my game and add to it as these ideas develop. I used Google Docs and add the most recent notes to the top of the document. 

 

When I get lost I scroll back to the last "a ha" moment and reset a little bit. 

I do the exact same thing. It's super useful because I have never had a coach/instructor! 

[MK7Golf21]

1 minute ago, b.mattay said:

I do the exact same thing. It's super useful because I have never had a coach/instructor! 

 

so do I. A lot of the pro's do as well. Rory has said he has a journal of feels/changes he has tried and how it went. Says he goes back to them often.

[RichieHunt]

They can come on the range, mid-lesson, on the course playing or even at home watching videos.  And I've talked to other golfers that have had similar experiences. 

 

 

 

 

 

RH

[tthomasgolfer605]

My aha moment was. "Aha, if I play every day I get better." 

[Nickb333]

12 hours ago, mvvraz said:

I usually have mine at the 16th hole after a miserable day and I spend the rest of the weekend contemplating why I was so stupid to not think of it the entire time 

 

 

I did that exactly on Monday at Encinitas Ranch. Before 16 I may have hit 6 solid shots. One of those was a ball above my feet. That’s my ah ha. Always . Don’t know why I can’t capture that and transfer it to normal shots. 

[rooski]

7 minutes ago, Nickb333 said:

I did that exactly on Monday at Encinitas Ranch. Before 16 I may have hit 6 solid shots. One of those was a ball above my feet. That’s my ah ha. Always . Don’t know why I can’t capture that and transfer it to normal shots. 

 

You're saying you always hit balls above your feet well and want to translate that to your normal shots if I'm reading correctly? That lie effectively makes your club more upright, maybe there's something there. a-ha

[Nickb333]

5 minutes ago, rooski said:

 

You're saying you always hit balls above your feet well and want to translate that to your normal shots if I'm reading correctly? That lie effectively makes your club more upright, maybe there's something there. a-ha

Correct. I almost always pure shots when the lie is above my feet. I deduced it to posture. My irons are 2* up. My woods are flat. Both seem to work the same on the lie above my feet. 
 

 

[ThePaineTrain]

I had a few semi-related breakthroughs that I didn't realize were related until the latest one. I have a tendency to end up shifting my weight too far over my back foot, and it's especially pronounced with longer clubs.

 

The revelations I had were some quick fixes: first, I swore that letting my arms "elevate" was the key that I had been missing. Then, I figured having my back foot at 90 degrees to the target was the solution. Recently I've learned that both of these moves have the effect of keeping my weight between my feet: raised arms kept me from pushing the hands and therefore my weight back, and the 90 degree back foot made it physically impossible to shift weight too far to the right without falling over.

 

In any case, I'm feeling pretty good with my latest swing thought of "keep your weight between your feet".

[Nels55]

I have had a lot of WOODs (works only one day) over the years often recycling the same one that worked the time before.  I have a tendency to shift back and forth on mechanics, grip and swing thoughts. 

 

Real working change is a matter of trial and error for me.  The process takes some time and often consists of trying something and abandoning it and trying the opposite and then figuring out what actually works which could be one extreme or the other or something in between.  Video and launch monitor are very helpful in doing this.  I have gotten a lot better about sticking with movements that work and I feel like I am getting closer to a repeatable swing.  LOL for instance I have kept the same grip for close to a year now which is an all time record for me.